1100 with play in RA axis


Ken Sablinsky
 

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


W Hilmo
 


It's not uncommon that the gearboxes need to be remeshed after shipping.  In 10 years, owning 3 Astro-Physics mounts (and helping with a few at star parties), the remesh procedure has corrected this problem for me in the few cases where it's come up.  I've not yet had to adjust end play.

I'll add the caveat that none of my mounts have the latest gearboxes.  For example, none of mine have the release lever to back off the worm from the wheel.

So unless there is something different about the new gearboxes relevant to this, I would suggest just starting with a remesh.

Finally, if you are at all hesitant to do anything before talking to Astro-Physics, a little backlash in the RA drive won't adversely affect the performance of the mount.  Since the RA drive never reverses direction while tracking, it stays meshed.  If this were the declination drive, it would be more important to correct it.

-Wade

On 11/23/22 16:50, Ken Sablinsky wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Arvind
 

Congrats on the new mount!

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.


On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Ken Sablinsky
 

Hey Wade, thanks for the info.  I'm upgrading from an AP900, which I've had to adjust the mesh several times over the life of it.  So my experience is definitely with the older style gearbox. This spring loaded system looks very nice.  

Point well taken about RA backlash not being as important - though this amount of play is 3-4 times as big as anything I ever had with the 900, so it just surprised me.

-Ken

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:07 PM W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:

It's not uncommon that the gearboxes need to be remeshed after shipping.  In 10 years, owning 3 Astro-Physics mounts (and helping with a few at star parties), the remesh procedure has corrected this problem for me in the few cases where it's come up.  I've not yet had to adjust end play.

I'll add the caveat that none of my mounts have the latest gearboxes.  For example, none of mine have the release lever to back off the worm from the wheel.

So unless there is something different about the new gearboxes relevant to this, I would suggest just starting with a remesh.

Finally, if you are at all hesitant to do anything before talking to Astro-Physics, a little backlash in the RA drive won't adversely affect the performance of the mount.  Since the RA drive never reverses direction while tracking, it stays meshed.  If this were the declination drive, it would be more important to correct it.

-Wade

On 11/23/22 16:50, Ken Sablinsky wrote:
Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Ken Sablinsky
 

Hey Arvind, that was a very good idea and I was sure that was going to remove the play.  Unfortunately, even when I get it back to the fully closed position (I can hear the little click just like in your vid), the play is still there.

-Ken

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 5:19 PM Arvind <base16@...> wrote:
Congrats on the new mount!

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.


On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Roland Christen
 

It all depends how much pressure you are putting on the end of the counterweight shaft. That's because for every ounce of pressure you put on the shaft, you are putting a pound of pressure on the gear teeth. The teeth are loaded with spring pressure, and you can easily push them up and slightly out of mesh if you grab the counterweight shaft and try to move it back and forth vigorously.

You should check the play with the pressure of just one finger. If it moves with very little pressure, check to make sure that the gearbox springs are pressing the worm into mesh with the worm wheel. Push down on the end of the gearbox and then let go. You should see it move slightly out of mesh and then return when you let go. There is a backstop adjustment that limits the amount of movement but it should not be set so tight that there is no movement. That would impact tracking negatively and will contribute to premature wear on the worm teeth.

If there really is 2mm of motion with the barest of pressure on the cwt shaft, then you might want to check the worm end play nut. It is located right near the lever on the right side, under a cover nut (see pix below). It might have loosened during shipping and can easily be snugged up with the points of a needle nose pliers or a small spanner wrench.

Finally, a small amount of motion as you describe will have zero impact on tracking or pointing, so you can safely use the mount as is if you find it inconvenient to try the above adjustments.

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2022 6:50 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Ken Sablinsky
 

Thanks for the detailed response, Roland.  Yes, I should clarify — this motion was detected with the barest minimum of force. I first felt it when attaching the Dec axis, before I even attached the CW shaft. And only used the CW and a point of reference for how much distance it moved, definitely not for a handle to push back and forth to feel for the play.  Even one finger can freely move the Dec housing to feel the play, even with no CW shaft attached. 

Based on your response, I think I’ll check the worm end play nut first, now that I know where it is located. I’ll report back with what I find.

Thanks!
Ken 



On Nov 23, 2022, at 6:23 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


It all depends how much pressure you are putting on the end of the counterweight shaft. That's because for every ounce of pressure you put on the shaft, you are putting a pound of pressure on the gear teeth. The teeth are loaded with spring pressure, and you can easily push them up and slightly out of mesh if you grab the counterweight shaft and try to move it back and forth vigorously.

You should check the play with the pressure of just one finger. If it moves with very little pressure, check to make sure that the gearbox springs are pressing the worm into mesh with the worm wheel. Push down on the end of the gearbox and then let go. You should see it move slightly out of mesh and then return when you let go. There is a backstop adjustment that limits the amount of movement but it should not be set so tight that there is no movement. That would impact tracking negatively and will contribute to premature wear on the worm teeth.

If there really is 2mm of motion with the barest of pressure on the cwt shaft, then you might want to check the worm end play nut. It is located right near the lever on the right side, under a cover nut (see pix below). It might have loosened during shipping and can easily be snugged up with the points of a needle nose pliers or a small spanner wrench.

Finally, a small amount of motion as you describe will have zero impact on tracking or pointing, so you can safely use the mount as is if you find it inconvenient to try the above adjustments.

Rolando

dummyfile.0.part



-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Nov 23, 2022 6:50 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


thefamily90 Phillips
 

I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

Jim P 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis
 
Congrats on the new mount!

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.


On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Ken Sablinsky
 

I believe I solved the issue I was experiencing after looking at the Dec motor and comparing how the tilt and backstop lever worked vs the RA motor. After checking the RA worm end play nut and finding it night and snug, I compared how the Dec motor engaged and disengaged using the lever.  It felt totally different from the RA motor, and would solidly mesh when turned back to tilt the worm into the gear. I wanted to get a feel for how the backstop adjustment worked, so I loosened those two screws around the lever of the RA motor.  As soon as they were loose, the motor tilted at least a few millimeters further toward the gear - and suddenly no more backlash!

But now the motor wouldn't rotate away slightly from the gear when pressing on it, so I thought it was probably too tightly meshed.  I went through the backstop adjustment procedure and then tightened down the screws.  Now the motor can rock back away from the gear slightly to where I feel it un-mesh and a tiny bit of play is introduced, but when I let go, the play disappears. It feels and acts exactly like the Dec motor and axis.  Perhaps it got bumped out of position during shipment?  Thanks for everyone's input and instructions and ideas as to what to look for.  Happy Thanksgiving!

-Ken

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:20 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

Jim P 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis
 
Congrats on the new mount!

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.


On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Jim Crumly
 

Ken

I received my 1100 the first of the month. I did not specifically check the backlash on either of the axis.

Now that I have a scope mounted and balanced. Can I check the backlash with everything loaded and balanced or do I have to take everything off the mount.

Clear Sky’s

Jim

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Sablinsky
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 01:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

I believe I solved the issue I was experiencing after looking at the Dec motor and comparing how the tilt and backstop lever worked vs the RA motor. After checking the RA worm end play nut and finding it night and snug, I compared how the Dec motor engaged and disengaged using the lever.  It felt totally different from the RA motor, and would solidly mesh when turned back to tilt the worm into the gear. I wanted to get a feel for how the backstop adjustment worked, so I loosened those two screws around the lever of the RA motor.  As soon as they were loose, the motor tilted at least a few millimeters further toward the gear - and suddenly no more backlash!

 

But now the motor wouldn't rotate away slightly from the gear when pressing on it, so I thought it was probably too tightly meshed.  I went through the backstop adjustment procedure and then tightened down the screws.  Now the motor can rock back away from the gear slightly to where I feel it un-mesh and a tiny bit of play is introduced, but when I let go, the play disappears. It feels and acts exactly like the Dec motor and axis.  Perhaps it got bumped out of position during shipment?  Thanks for everyone's input and instructions and ideas as to what to look for.  Happy Thanksgiving!

 

-Ken

 

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:20 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:

I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

 

Jim P 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

Congrats on the new mount!

 

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

 

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

 

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.

 

 

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Ken Sablinsky
 

Hi Jim,

I noticed it both ways, without anything loaded as well as fully loaded up and balanced.  But as Roland mentioned, you don't want to grab the CW shaft and push it either way to feel for it, as that adds a lot of pressure at the gear.  Mine was easy to detect with the barest of pressure with a balanced load. But after I did that adjustment, I don't feel any play whatsoever.  And there was none to begin with on the Dec axis - I think the RA motor probably got bumped in shipping perhaps, or perhaps I was too aggressive pulling it out of the box, I'm not sure.  It worked like a charm last night - Unguided, and stars perfectly round and at least as small as my old 900 mount when guided.  Just amazing.

-Ken

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 10:44 AM Jim Crumly <jimwc@...> wrote:

Ken

I received my 1100 the first of the month. I did not specifically check the backlash on either of the axis.

Now that I have a scope mounted and balanced. Can I check the backlash with everything loaded and balanced or do I have to take everything off the mount.

Clear Sky’s

Jim

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Sablinsky
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 01:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

I believe I solved the issue I was experiencing after looking at the Dec motor and comparing how the tilt and backstop lever worked vs the RA motor. After checking the RA worm end play nut and finding it night and snug, I compared how the Dec motor engaged and disengaged using the lever.  It felt totally different from the RA motor, and would solidly mesh when turned back to tilt the worm into the gear. I wanted to get a feel for how the backstop adjustment worked, so I loosened those two screws around the lever of the RA motor.  As soon as they were loose, the motor tilted at least a few millimeters further toward the gear - and suddenly no more backlash!

 

But now the motor wouldn't rotate away slightly from the gear when pressing on it, so I thought it was probably too tightly meshed.  I went through the backstop adjustment procedure and then tightened down the screws.  Now the motor can rock back away from the gear slightly to where I feel it un-mesh and a tiny bit of play is introduced, but when I let go, the play disappears. It feels and acts exactly like the Dec motor and axis.  Perhaps it got bumped out of position during shipment?  Thanks for everyone's input and instructions and ideas as to what to look for.  Happy Thanksgiving!

 

-Ken

 

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:20 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:

I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

 

Jim P 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

Congrats on the new mount!

 

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

 

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

 

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.

 

 

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Jim Crumly
 

Ken
I just checked and I  must have lucked in with my mount. No backlash on eather axis, but I  decided to plug everything in and see what it sounded like.
The RA is quite and smooth, but the DEC has a wine to it. Is this normal?

Clear Sky's
Jim

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 11:56:25 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis
 
Hi Jim,

I noticed it both ways, without anything loaded as well as fully loaded up and balanced.  But as Roland mentioned, you don't want to grab the CW shaft and push it either way to feel for it, as that adds a lot of pressure at the gear.  Mine was easy to detect with the barest of pressure with a balanced load. But after I did that adjustment, I don't feel any play whatsoever.  And there was none to begin with on the Dec axis - I think the RA motor probably got bumped in shipping perhaps, or perhaps I was too aggressive pulling it out of the box, I'm not sure.  It worked like a charm last night - Unguided, and stars perfectly round and at least as small as my old 900 mount when guided.  Just amazing.

-Ken

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 10:44 AM Jim Crumly <jimwc@...> wrote:

Ken

I received my 1100 the first of the month. I did not specifically check the backlash on either of the axis.

Now that I have a scope mounted and balanced. Can I check the backlash with everything loaded and balanced or do I have to take everything off the mount.

Clear Sky’s

Jim

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Sablinsky
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 01:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

I believe I solved the issue I was experiencing after looking at the Dec motor and comparing how the tilt and backstop lever worked vs the RA motor. After checking the RA worm end play nut and finding it night and snug, I compared how the Dec motor engaged and disengaged using the lever.  It felt totally different from the RA motor, and would solidly mesh when turned back to tilt the worm into the gear. I wanted to get a feel for how the backstop adjustment worked, so I loosened those two screws around the lever of the RA motor.  As soon as they were loose, the motor tilted at least a few millimeters further toward the gear - and suddenly no more backlash!

 

But now the motor wouldn't rotate away slightly from the gear when pressing on it, so I thought it was probably too tightly meshed.  I went through the backstop adjustment procedure and then tightened down the screws.  Now the motor can rock back away from the gear slightly to where I feel it un-mesh and a tiny bit of play is introduced, but when I let go, the play disappears. It feels and acts exactly like the Dec motor and axis.  Perhaps it got bumped out of position during shipment?  Thanks for everyone's input and instructions and ideas as to what to look for.  Happy Thanksgiving!

 

-Ken

 

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:20 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:

I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

 

Jim P 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

Congrats on the new mount!

 

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

 

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

 

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.

 

 

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Ken Sablinsky
 

Jim, I'm not sure I can speak to the difference in sound, except to say that mine sounds pretty similar in both axes.  I suppose it could have something to do with the weight load, balance and probably other things, but I'd ask others about that as I'm brand new to this 1100 myself.  I can say that my 900 mount always had a different sound in each axis (and sometimes a subtle pulsing sound).  But it's still going strong after 23 years, and in fact tracks better than it originally did since I upgraded from the CP2 to the CP4 and added APCC Pro.  So I never really worried about the differences in sound.

-Ken

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 1:31 PM Jim Crumly <jimwc@...> wrote:
Ken
I just checked and I  must have lucked in with my mount. No backlash on eather axis, but I  decided to plug everything in and see what it sounded like.
The RA is quite and smooth, but the DEC has a wine to it. Is this normal?

Clear Sky's
Jim

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 11:56:25 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis
 
Hi Jim,

I noticed it both ways, without anything loaded as well as fully loaded up and balanced.  But as Roland mentioned, you don't want to grab the CW shaft and push it either way to feel for it, as that adds a lot of pressure at the gear.  Mine was easy to detect with the barest of pressure with a balanced load. But after I did that adjustment, I don't feel any play whatsoever.  And there was none to begin with on the Dec axis - I think the RA motor probably got bumped in shipping perhaps, or perhaps I was too aggressive pulling it out of the box, I'm not sure.  It worked like a charm last night - Unguided, and stars perfectly round and at least as small as my old 900 mount when guided.  Just amazing.

-Ken

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 10:44 AM Jim Crumly <jimwc@...> wrote:

Ken

I received my 1100 the first of the month. I did not specifically check the backlash on either of the axis.

Now that I have a scope mounted and balanced. Can I check the backlash with everything loaded and balanced or do I have to take everything off the mount.

Clear Sky’s

Jim

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Sablinsky
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 01:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

I believe I solved the issue I was experiencing after looking at the Dec motor and comparing how the tilt and backstop lever worked vs the RA motor. After checking the RA worm end play nut and finding it night and snug, I compared how the Dec motor engaged and disengaged using the lever.  It felt totally different from the RA motor, and would solidly mesh when turned back to tilt the worm into the gear. I wanted to get a feel for how the backstop adjustment worked, so I loosened those two screws around the lever of the RA motor.  As soon as they were loose, the motor tilted at least a few millimeters further toward the gear - and suddenly no more backlash!

 

But now the motor wouldn't rotate away slightly from the gear when pressing on it, so I thought it was probably too tightly meshed.  I went through the backstop adjustment procedure and then tightened down the screws.  Now the motor can rock back away from the gear slightly to where I feel it un-mesh and a tiny bit of play is introduced, but when I let go, the play disappears. It feels and acts exactly like the Dec motor and axis.  Perhaps it got bumped out of position during shipment?  Thanks for everyone's input and instructions and ideas as to what to look for.  Happy Thanksgiving!

 

-Ken

 

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:20 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:

I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

 

Jim P 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

Congrats on the new mount!

 

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

 

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

 

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.

 

 

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken


Jim Crumly
 

Ken
Thanks for your insight. At least you have had experience with AP mounts. I have none. Everything seems to be working so I'll just keep an eye and ear out for problems. 

Clear Sky's 
Jim

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 5:33:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis
 
Jim, I'm not sure I can speak to the difference in sound, except to say that mine sounds pretty similar in both axes.  I suppose it could have something to do with the weight load, balance and probably other things, but I'd ask others about that as I'm brand new to this 1100 myself.  I can say that my 900 mount always had a different sound in each axis (and sometimes a subtle pulsing sound).  But it's still going strong after 23 years, and in fact tracks better than it originally did since I upgraded from the CP2 to the CP4 and added APCC Pro.  So I never really worried about the differences in sound.

-Ken

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 1:31 PM Jim Crumly <jimwc@...> wrote:

Ken
I just checked and I  must have lucked in with my mount. No backlash on eather axis, but I  decided to plug everything in and see what it sounded like.
The RA is quite and smooth, but the DEC has a wine to it. Is this normal?

Clear Sky's
Jim

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for Android

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2022 11:56:25 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis
 
Hi Jim,

I noticed it both ways, without anything loaded as well as fully loaded up and balanced.  But as Roland mentioned, you don't want to grab the CW shaft and push it either way to feel for it, as that adds a lot of pressure at the gear.  Mine was easy to detect with the barest of pressure with a balanced load. But after I did that adjustment, I don't feel any play whatsoever.  And there was none to begin with on the Dec axis - I think the RA motor probably got bumped in shipping perhaps, or perhaps I was too aggressive pulling it out of the box, I'm not sure.  It worked like a charm last night - Unguided, and stars perfectly round and at least as small as my old 900 mount when guided.  Just amazing.

-Ken

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 10:44 AM Jim Crumly <jimwc@...> wrote:

Ken

I received my 1100 the first of the month. I did not specifically check the backlash on either of the axis.

Now that I have a scope mounted and balanced. Can I check the backlash with everything loaded and balanced or do I have to take everything off the mount.

Clear Sky’s

Jim

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Sablinsky
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2022 01:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

I believe I solved the issue I was experiencing after looking at the Dec motor and comparing how the tilt and backstop lever worked vs the RA motor. After checking the RA worm end play nut and finding it night and snug, I compared how the Dec motor engaged and disengaged using the lever.  It felt totally different from the RA motor, and would solidly mesh when turned back to tilt the worm into the gear. I wanted to get a feel for how the backstop adjustment worked, so I loosened those two screws around the lever of the RA motor.  As soon as they were loose, the motor tilted at least a few millimeters further toward the gear - and suddenly no more backlash!

 

But now the motor wouldn't rotate away slightly from the gear when pressing on it, so I thought it was probably too tightly meshed.  I went through the backstop adjustment procedure and then tightened down the screws.  Now the motor can rock back away from the gear slightly to where I feel it un-mesh and a tiny bit of play is introduced, but when I let go, the play disappears. It feels and acts exactly like the Dec motor and axis.  Perhaps it got bumped out of position during shipment?  Thanks for everyone's input and instructions and ideas as to what to look for.  Happy Thanksgiving!

 

-Ken

 

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:20 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:

I have two AP 1200 GOTO mounts. I have had to replace the Dec motors in both and I must not have put the new motors in absolutely correctly and have play in the Dec axis in both mounts. As I do not Deep Sky imaging I don’t worry about it and both mounts function perfectly.

 

Jim P 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Arvind <base16@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 8:19:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1100 with play in RA axis

 

Congrats on the new mount!

 

I'd suggest looking at simple issues first: perhaps during shipment or during assembly the worm got disengaged.

 

The new 1100's come with a "on/off" switch -- it couldn't be easier -- to get the worm engaged/disengaged. The symptom you're describing is possible when the gears are not FULLY engaged but not fully disengaged either.

 

Look at the bottom of page 27; with pictures on page 28. https://astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/1100gto/1100gto-cp4.pdf for instructions on how to change this. 

 

I had a video around fine balancing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe_7V88Ue4) where I go through this particular knob and the clutch so you can see how they work. At 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video you can see the rocking motion I perform to center the tooth before fully tightening it.

 

 

On Wed, Nov 23, 2022 at 4:50 PM Ken Sablinsky <kensablinsky@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm the proud new owner of an 1100 AE that just arrived today.  In setting it up, I noticed there is play in the RA axis when the clutch knobs are snugged down - about 2mm worth measured at the end of the counterweight shaft.  Roland motioned in another thread the "worm end play" nut, and I also see a PDF about adjusting the mesh of the 1100 via the Gearbox lockdown screws.  Normally I would call AP first before attempting any tweaks, but it's late in the day before a holiday, and I have a brand new toy I want to play with tonight.  Any ideas?

Thanks
-Ken