Date   

Re: Com ports #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

A unique COM port is assigned by Windows automatically. You pin devices to particular COM ports if you want their device ID to stay on it and not move around. One does not need to manually allocate them under normal circumstances.

On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Charles Thompson via groups.io <cthomp97=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I've had this problem and went into the devices software and assigned it a higher comm port that was not in use. Then in windows go to device manager and advance options on that comm port and assign it to the matching port you used in the device software. It's been a long time but I think that's how I fixed it.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.



Thanks,
Charles

Sent from mobile device.


-------- Original message --------
From: klein.phillip@gmail.com
Date: 4/7/20 8:28 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Com ports #APCC

Hello,

Recently, I purchased Astromi's MBoxV2. The device displays temp, pressure, humidity, dew point, latitude and longtitude. My equipment is AP Mach1 GTO4 mount running on APCCPro.
My problem is the new device is using the same com Port(3) that I use for my Optec FocusLynx so I cannot use both devices at the same time. ComPort(4) is used by the QSI532ws camera.
I am running Windows10 on a laptop that has 3 usb connections.
I would appreciate hearing if anyone has tackled a similar problem.

Thank you and wishing you clear skies!!

Phillip


Re: Com ports #APCC

Charles Thompson
 

I've had this problem and went into the devices software and assigned it a higher comm port that was not in use. Then in windows go to device manager and advance options on that comm port and assign it to the matching port you used in the device software. It's been a long time but I think that's how I fixed it. 

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 



Thanks,
Charles

Sent from mobile device.


-------- Original message --------
From: klein.phillip@...
Date: 4/7/20 8:28 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Com ports #APCC

Hello,

Recently, I purchased Astromi's MBoxV2. The device displays temp, pressure, humidity, dew point, latitude and longtitude. My equipment is AP Mach1 GTO4 mount running on APCCPro.
My problem is the new device is using the same com Port(3) that I use for my Optec FocusLynx so I cannot use both devices at the same time. ComPort(4) is used by the QSI532ws camera.
I am running Windows10 on a laptop that has 3 usb connections.
I would appreciate hearing if anyone has tackled a similar problem.

Thank you and wishing you clear skies!!

Phillip


Re: Com ports #APCC

Mike Dodd
 

On 4/7/2020 2:28 AM, klein.phillip@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,

Recently, I purchased Astromi's MBoxV2. The device displays temp,
pressure, humidity, dew point, latitude and longtitude. My equipment is
AP Mach1 GTO4 mount running on APCCPro.
My problem is the new device is using the same com Port(3) that I use
for my Optec FocusLynx so I cannot use both devices at the same time.
ComPort(4) is used by the QSI532ws camera.
I am running Windows10 on a laptop that has 3 usb connections.
I would appreciate hearing if anyone has tackled a similar problem.
It sounds to me like you need to go into each program that uses these devices, and choose a COM port that's actually been allocated to each one.

Windows assigns port numbers, but in your software you must choose a port to match the one assigned. If the new device works with COM-3, go into FocusLynx and choose a different port number. Keep trying until the software connects to your focuser. Then write down the working port numbers. :-)

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com


Re: Com ports #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

This is a bit impossible. Windows allocates COM ports on per-device basis.

How are you ascertaining that both are on the same COM port?

On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:28 AM, klein.phillip@gmail.com wrote:

Hello,

Recently, I purchased Astromi's MBoxV2. The device displays temp, pressure, humidity, dew point, latitude and longtitude. My equipment is AP Mach1 GTO4 mount running on APCCPro.
My problem is the new device is using the same com Port(3) that I use for my Optec FocusLynx so I cannot use both devices at the same time. ComPort(4) is used by the QSI532ws camera.
I am running Windows10 on a laptop that has 3 usb connections.
I would appreciate hearing if anyone has tackled a similar problem.

Thank you and wishing you clear skies!!

Phillip


Com ports #APCC

Phillip Klein
 

Hello,

Recently, I purchased Astromi's MBoxV2. The device displays temp, pressure, humidity, dew point, latitude and longtitude. My equipment is AP Mach1 GTO4 mount running on APCCPro.
My problem is the new device is using the same com Port(3) that I use for my Optec FocusLynx so I cannot use both devices at the same time. ComPort(4) is used by the QSI532ws camera.
I am running Windows10 on a laptop that has 3 usb connections.
I would appreciate hearing if anyone has tackled a similar problem.

Thank you and wishing you clear skies!!

Phillip


Re: Mach1 (spring loaded vers) has gear slop?

Roland Christen
 


So my question is there another method or documentation of what I might do to take that play out of the RA mesh?
There is no reason to take out any play in RA. That axis is always running in one direction and is never reversed, so play or backlash is not an issue. It doesn't come into play at all during tracking or guiding. Leave it be.

Run Guiding Assistant and look at the natural star motion when the mount is not being guided. It will tell you instantly what the stars are doing, how much they are moving due to atmospheric motion. If you get 1 arc sec RMS of natural star motion (scintillation) then no amount of guiding will get you less error. I recently checked my skies here in Northern Illinois when it was clear on Saturday. Stars were moving around so much (probably jet Steam) that i had 0.8 arc sec RMS values of just scintillation. I could not get better then that all night long with any guide settings. It's just the way things are in spring time around here.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 6, 2020 5:41 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 (spring loaded vers) has gear slop?

I was having superb performance over the last year. Total RMS guiding down around .24 - .32
I had some time away while swapping scopes from V1 RASA 11 to a V2 RASA 11. (very similar) V2 seems heavier. I rebalanced.
My guiding is now at best  .99 and averages around 1.50.  Good enough for decent stars at my image scale but it makes me concerned. The corrections are very abrupt. I've used PHD2 for 3 years and know it quite well for tuning. I can't seem to get it to smooth out.
I believe there was a PHD2 update during this  (good to bad shift). so it's hard to know if it's the mount or phd2. 
With that said - I feel there is a good bit of play in the RA mesh. I have taken the slop out before using the 'thumb pressure" tuning trick.  That isn't working this time.  I move the weights/top of teh scope a good bit that I think is the culprit. 
I opened the RA end of the box where the 3 gears are. (the middle gear turns freely easily). But it too seems to have some slop. ?  Meaning I can wiggle the middle gear1 bit (1/16th?) inch or could say 1.5-2mm or so before it contacts the other gears to make them move.
So my question is there another method or documentation of what I might do to take that play out of the RA mesh? 
I have seen the instructions for (old-style - no spring-loaded vers) which doesn't apply to me I don't believe. As noted above, the thumb/finger pressure on the release lever doesn't seem to work this time. Could this mean a new gear is needed in the box?  What else could I try?


Ron in Grand Rapids, MI


Mach1 (spring loaded vers) has gear slop?

Ron Kramer
 

I was having superb performance over the last year. Total RMS guiding down around .24 - .32

I had some time away while swapping scopes from V1 RASA 11 to a V2 RASA 11. (very similar) V2 seems heavier. I rebalanced.

My guiding is now at best  .99 and averages around 1.50.  Good enough for decent stars at my image scale but it makes me concerned. The corrections are very abrupt. I've used PHD2 for 3 years and know it quite well for tuning. I can't seem to get it to smooth out.

I believe there was a PHD2 update during this  (good to bad shift). so it's hard to know if it's the mount or phd2. 

With that said - I feel there is a good bit of play in the RA mesh. I have taken the slop out before using the 'thumb pressure" tuning trick.  That isn't working this time.  I move the weights/top of teh scope a good bit that I think is the culprit. 

I opened the RA end of the box where the 3 gears are. (the middle gear turns freely easily). But it too seems to have some slop. ?  Meaning I can wiggle the middle gear1 bit (1/16th?) inch or could say 1.5-2mm or so before it contacts the other gears to make them move.

So my question is there another method or documentation of what I might do to take that play out of the RA mesh? 

I have seen the instructions for (old-style - no spring-loaded vers) which doesn't apply to me I don't believe. As noted above, the thumb/finger pressure on the release lever doesn't seem to work this time. Could this mean a new gear is needed in the box?  What else could I try?


Ron in Grand Rapids, MI


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Don Anderson
 

Ok. I should be middle aged by then!

Don Anderson


On Monday, April 6, 2020, 03:18:08 p.m. MDT, George <george@...> wrote:


Don,

 

No.   You will be fine.   Change them in about another 150 years.   <G>

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Anderson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 3:22 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hello George

I have never changed the plugs on my 2009 AP900GOTO. They seem to be working well at this point. Should I change them out because of age? Do they get brittle with time?

Cheers

 

Don Anderson

 

 

On Monday, April 6, 2020, 07:53:04 a.m. MDT, George <george@...> wrote:

 

 

Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.  

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs.

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head.

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it.

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before.




Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

George
 

Don,

 

No.   You will be fine.   Change them in about another 150 years.   <G>

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Don Anderson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 3:22 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hello George

I have never changed the plugs on my 2009 AP900GOTO. They seem to be working well at this point. Should I change them out because of age? Do they get brittle with time?

Cheers

 

Don Anderson

 

 

On Monday, April 6, 2020, 07:53:04 a.m. MDT, George <george@...> wrote:

 

 

Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.  

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs.

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head.

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it.

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before.




Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Don Anderson
 

Hello George
I have never changed the plugs on my 2009 AP900GOTO. They seem to be working well at this point. Should I change them out because of age? Do they get brittle with time?
Cheers

Don Anderson


On Monday, April 6, 2020, 07:53:04 a.m. MDT, George <george@...> wrote:


Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.  

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs.

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head.

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it.

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before.




Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO

TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

George
 

Greg,

 

I can assist you if necessary.   Only replace plugs if it is truly necessary.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Greg Salyer
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 12:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Are there any written instructions on how to do such a disassembly ? Just in case we find it’s necessary.



On Apr 6, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Joe Zeglinski <J.Zeglinski@...> wrote:



Hi,

 

    I had to replace all the clutch plugs on my AP-900 and it was a bear of a task, almost unbearable, even with AP’s special plug removal tool. It was only possible thanks to George and his marvellous advice, on the easy and smart way of using a 3 or 4 inch long (socket head) as a  “push screw” and my socket wrench, to pull the axle head  off and disassemble the axes. Then it was easy to remove the badly deformed old plugs.

 

    As usually happens, the DELRIN plugs aged and flattened out at their tips (from a few years of being tightened down too hard), becoming mushroom-shaped, and had spread out between the bottom of the clutch screw  hole, and the clutch axle  itself. There was no way it was ever going to be extracted, up the clutch hole, no matter how good the tool. The mount axes had to be disassembled.

 

    Thanks to George’s instructions on how they do it, the task was almost a breeze after that. Once the “push-screws” easily did their job,  I drilled out a larger centre hole down the old plugs, and tapped some looser ones into the now empty clutch channel. I think later, for some of them, I threaded the drilled plug – only half way in, to produce a “tapered threaded” hole. That way, the tap then had enough grip to then push & screw the old plug, down into the channel without much force.

A little WD-40 may have helped loosen it from the hole threads.

 

   The old clutch plugs not only formed mushroom heads in the channel, they also thickened and embedded themselves into the hole threads.

With the axles disassembled, the mushroomed head did not need to force its way upward, but be screwed inward,  for extraction.

 

*****************

    However, the next time I have to do it – and I really hope there will never be one – I think I might substitute the AP clutch plugs with one’s I found on the web, in CHINA. Or, I will modify the standard AP plug kit.

 

    Those are almost the same, except they are “rounded, bullet-shaped”, at the tips. I figure that their narrowed tips, rather than AP’s straight cylindrical plugs, will not mushroom as much into the empty channel space, beyond the diameter of the clutch screw hole, making extraction much easier the normal way using  the AP tool.

 

    Alternatively, I might put each new AP standard kit plug in a drill or lathe, and “round-off” the tips to likewise become bullet-shaped. That would probably be easier than sourcing from China, where they might become unavailable over time, and possibly not precisely the same size. If rounding-off would work, I would much prefer to trust the ones from AP, and modify them.

 

**********

    Also, if those Chinese substitutes are used, you should still source the regular AP clutch plugs to perhaps replace the “bearings” on both axes. The same AP clutch plugs are used as “rollers” in the race channel – i.e. there are not typical “steel ball-bearings”.  You will need a KIT of each, plus spares, since you will likely drop and lose some during assembly - about 24 on one and maybe 22 in the other (?) axle. The DELRIN axle bearing rollers may flatten out over time, just like the clutches, perhaps shatter with age and stress. Eventually will need replacement as well, although that has never been mentioned here, or even written about in any AP documents.

 

    The mount really was a joy to use again, after its clutch rejuvenation, and I didn’t need to replace the ones in the bearing race yet, since I am the original owner. But I suppose, under  more frequent use and heavier loading than mine, the axes may get “bumpy”, when one or more DELRIN plug rollers chip or shatter, causing a log jam in the race channel. So, keep that in mind.

 

    Here is a link, to the Chinese company – to see what those look like.

 

 

    Actually, it would be nice if AP could be the source of both the regular clutch plugs for the bearings, and bullet-nosed ones for the clutch holes. The “rounded section” should be slightly longer than the channel depth, to prevent even those from mushrooming and getting stuck.

 

Joe Z.

 

<image[2].png>


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Greg Salyer
 

Are there any written instructions on how to do such a disassembly ? Just in case we find it’s necessary.

On Apr 6, 2020, at 12:49 PM, Joe Zeglinski <J.Zeglinski@...> wrote:


Hi,
 
    I had to replace all the clutch plugs on my AP-900 and it was a bear of a task, almost unbearable, even with AP’s special plug removal tool. It was only possible thanks to George and his marvellous advice, on the easy and smart way of using a 3 or 4 inch long (socket head) as a  “push screw” and my socket wrench, to pull the axle head  off and disassemble the axes. Then it was easy to remove the badly deformed old plugs.
 
    As usually happens, the DELRIN plugs aged and flattened out at their tips (from a few years of being tightened down too hard), becoming mushroom-shaped, and had spread out between the bottom of the clutch screw  hole, and the clutch axle  itself. There was no way it was ever going to be extracted, up the clutch hole, no matter how good the tool. The mount axes had to be disassembled.
 
    Thanks to George’s instructions on how they do it, the task was almost a breeze after that. Once the “push-screws” easily did their job,  I drilled out a larger centre hole down the old plugs, and tapped some looser ones into the now empty clutch channel. I think later, for some of them, I threaded the drilled plug – only half way in, to produce a “tapered threaded” hole. That way, the tap then had enough grip to then push & screw the old plug, down into the channel without much force.
A little WD-40 may have helped loosen it from the hole threads.
 
   The old clutch plugs not only formed mushroom heads in the channel, they also thickened and embedded themselves into the hole threads.
With the axles disassembled, the mushroomed head did not need to force its way upward, but be screwed inward,  for extraction.
 
*****************
    However, the next time I have to do it – and I really hope there will never be one – I think I might substitute the AP clutch plugs with one’s I found on the web, in CHINA. Or, I will modify the standard AP plug kit.
 
    Those are almost the same, except they are “rounded, bullet-shaped”, at the tips. I figure that their narrowed tips, rather than AP’s straight cylindrical plugs, will not mushroom as much into the empty channel space, beyond the diameter of the clutch screw hole, making extraction much easier the normal way using  the AP tool.
 
    Alternatively, I might put each new AP standard kit plug in a drill or lathe, and “round-off” the tips to likewise become bullet-shaped. That would probably be easier than sourcing from China, where they might become unavailable over time, and possibly not precisely the same size. If rounding-off would work, I would much prefer to trust the ones from AP, and modify them.
 
**********
    Also, if those Chinese substitutes are used, you should still source the regular AP clutch plugs to perhaps replace the “bearings” on both axes. The same AP clutch plugs are used as “rollers” in the race channel – i.e. there are not typical “steel ball-bearings”.  You will need a KIT of each, plus spares, since you will likely drop and lose some during assembly - about 24 on one and maybe 22 in the other (?) axle. The DELRIN axle bearing rollers may flatten out over time, just like the clutches, perhaps shatter with age and stress. Eventually will need replacement as well, although that has never been mentioned here, or even written about in any AP documents.
 
    The mount really was a joy to use again, after its clutch rejuvenation, and I didn’t need to replace the ones in the bearing race yet, since I am the original owner. But I suppose, under  more frequent use and heavier loading than mine, the axes may get “bumpy”, when one or more DELRIN plug rollers chip or shatter, causing a log jam in the race channel. So, keep that in mind.
 
    Here is a link, to the Chinese company – to see what those look like.
 
 
    Actually, it would be nice if AP could be the source of both the regular clutch plugs for the bearings, and bullet-nosed ones for the clutch holes. The “rounded section” should be slightly longer than the channel depth, to prevent even those from mushrooming and getting stuck.
 
Joe Z.
 
<image[2].png>


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi,
 
    I had to replace all the clutch plugs on my AP-900 and it was a bear of a task, almost unbearable, even with AP’s special plug removal tool. It was only possible thanks to George and his marvellous advice, on the easy and smart way of using a 3 or 4 inch long (socket head) as a  “push screw” and my socket wrench, to pull the axle head  off and disassemble the axes. Then it was easy to remove the badly deformed old plugs.
 
    As usually happens, the DELRIN plugs aged and flattened out at their tips (from a few years of being tightened down too hard), becoming mushroom-shaped, and had spread out between the bottom of the clutch screw  hole, and the clutch axle  itself. There was no way it was ever going to be extracted, up the clutch hole, no matter how good the tool. The mount axes had to be disassembled.
 
    Thanks to George’s instructions on how they do it, the task was almost a breeze after that. Once the “push-screws” easily did their job,  I drilled out a larger centre hole down the old plugs, and tapped some looser ones into the now empty clutch channel. I think later, for some of them, I threaded the drilled plug – only half way in, to produce a “tapered threaded” hole. That way, the tap then had enough grip to then push & screw the old plug, down into the channel without much force.
A little WD-40 may have helped loosen it from the hole threads.
 
   The old clutch plugs not only formed mushroom heads in the channel, they also thickened and embedded themselves into the hole threads.
With the axles disassembled, the mushroomed head did not need to force its way upward, but be screwed inward,  for extraction.
 
*****************
    However, the next time I have to do it – and I really hope there will never be one – I think I might substitute the AP clutch plugs with one’s I found on the web, in CHINA. Or, I will modify the standard AP plug kit.
 
    Those are almost the same, except they are “rounded, bullet-shaped”, at the tips. I figure that their narrowed tips, rather than AP’s straight cylindrical plugs, will not mushroom as much into the empty channel space, beyond the diameter of the clutch screw hole, making extraction much easier the normal way using  the AP tool.
 
    Alternatively, I might put each new AP standard kit plug in a drill or lathe, and “round-off” the tips to likewise become bullet-shaped. That would probably be easier than sourcing from China, where they might become unavailable over time, and possibly not precisely the same size. If rounding-off would work, I would much prefer to trust the ones from AP, and modify them.
 
**********
    Also, if those Chinese substitutes are used, you should still source the regular AP clutch plugs to perhaps replace the “bearings” on both axes. The same AP clutch plugs are used as “rollers” in the race channel – i.e. there are not typical “steel ball-bearings”.  You will need a KIT of each, plus spares, since you will likely drop and lose some during assembly - about 24 on one and maybe 22 in the other (?) axle. The DELRIN axle bearing rollers may flatten out over time, just like the clutches, perhaps shatter with age and stress. Eventually will need replacement as well, although that has never been mentioned here, or even written about in any AP documents.
 
    The mount really was a joy to use again, after its clutch rejuvenation, and I didn’t need to replace the ones in the bearing race yet, since I am the original owner. But I suppose, under  more frequent use and heavier loading than mine, the axes may get “bumpy”, when one or more DELRIN plug rollers chip or shatter, causing a log jam in the race channel. So, keep that in mind.
 
    Here is a link, to the Chinese company – to see what those look like.
 
 
    Actually, it would be nice if AP could be the source of both the regular clutch plugs for the bearings, and bullet-nosed ones for the clutch holes. The “rounded section” should be slightly longer than the channel depth, to prevent even those from mushrooming and getting stuck.
 
Joe Z.
 
image


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

DFisch
 

Good to know , I have been believing that they were the same construct as the older 900

 

TJF Work Thinkpad

 

From: uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 11:24 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

We don't use plugs in the 1100/1600/Mach1. These mounts have completely different clutch design. There is nothing to wear out on these mounts.

 

Rolando

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Fischer <manusfisch@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 6, 2020 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

George, are all of these the same plug size for 900/1100/Mach 1   ?   This would be nice info to keep around for eventual use for my 1100 and Mach 1

 

TJF Work Thinkpad

 

From: George
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 11:04 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Robert,

 

Thank you for the heads-up and info!

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Chozick via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 9:47 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

I just measured the new ones and old ones.  The inside hole diameter is 2.5mm and the outside diameter of the plug is 7mm.  I did note a bit of variance in hole size with the smallest about 2.3 and largest 2.6.  One was 2.8 or so on one side.  The plugs I pulled out are the same as the new ones.

 

Robert

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:55 AM, George <george@...> wrote:

 

Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.   

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: 
main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert 

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs. 

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head. 

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it. 

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before. 

<image001.gif>


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO 
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: 
mike.hambrick@...

 

Robert Chozick

rchozick@...

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Roland Christen
 

We don't use plugs in the 1100/1600/Mach1. These mounts have completely different clutch design. There is nothing to wear out on these mounts.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Fischer <manusfisch@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 6, 2020 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

George, are all of these the same plug size for 900/1100/Mach 1   ?   This would be nice info to keep around for eventual use for my 1100 and Mach 1
 
TJF Work Thinkpad
 
From: George
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 11:04 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900
 
Robert,
 
Thank you for the heads-up and info!
 
Regards,
 
George
 
George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone:  815-282-1513
Email:  george@...
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Chozick via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 9:47 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900
 
I just measured the new ones and old ones.  The inside hole diameter is 2.5mm and the outside diameter of the plug is 7mm.  I did note a bit of variance in hole size with the smallest about 2.3 and largest 2.6.  One was 2.8 or so on one side.  The plugs I pulled out are the same as the new ones.
 
Robert
 
On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:55 AM, George <george@...> wrote:
 
Michael,
 
You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.   
 
Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.
 
Regards,
 
George
 
George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone:  815-282-1513
Email:  george@...
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900
 
Hi Robert 

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs. 

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head. 

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:
  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.

Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it. 

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before. 

<image001.gif>


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
 
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...
 
Robert Chozick
 
 
 
 


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

George
 

Tom,

 

The 900 may use different sizes based upon the year.    If you go to the Tech Support page for Legacy Products and then to 900 mounts, you’ll find a PDF for clutch plug replacement that will identify vis clutch knob style.

 

The Mach1 and 1100 mounts do not use clutch plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Thomas Fischer
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 10:10 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

George, are all of these the same plug size for 900/1100/Mach 1   ?   This would be nice info to keep around for eventual use for my 1100 and Mach 1

 

TJF Work Thinkpad

 

From: George
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 11:04 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Robert,

 

Thank you for the heads-up and info!

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Chozick via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 9:47 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

I just measured the new ones and old ones.  The inside hole diameter is 2.5mm and the outside diameter of the plug is 7mm.  I did note a bit of variance in hole size with the smallest about 2.3 and largest 2.6.  One was 2.8 or so on one side.  The plugs I pulled out are the same as the new ones.

 

Robert

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:55 AM, George <george@...> wrote:

 

Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.   

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert 

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs. 

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head. 

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it. 

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before. 

<image001.gif>


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
 
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...

 

Robert Chozick

 

 

 

 


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Michael Hambrick <mike.hambrick@...>
 

A 2.5 mm hole will allow a #1 screw extractor, and possibly a #2. These are the smallest sizes available which means that they can easily be broken if too much force is used.




Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

DFisch
 

George, are all of these the same plug size for 900/1100/Mach 1   ?   This would be nice info to keep around for eventual use for my 1100 and Mach 1

 

TJF Work Thinkpad

 

From: George
Sent: Monday, April 6, 2020 11:04 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Robert,

 

Thank you for the heads-up and info!

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Chozick via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 9:47 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

I just measured the new ones and old ones.  The inside hole diameter is 2.5mm and the outside diameter of the plug is 7mm.  I did note a bit of variance in hole size with the smallest about 2.3 and largest 2.6.  One was 2.8 or so on one side.  The plugs I pulled out are the same as the new ones.

 

Robert

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:55 AM, George <george@...> wrote:

 

Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.   

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert 

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs. 

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head. 

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it. 

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before. 

<image001.gif>


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
 
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...

 

Robert Chozick

 

 

 

 


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

George
 

Robert,

 

Thank you for the heads-up and info!

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Chozick via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2020 9:47 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

I just measured the new ones and old ones.  The inside hole diameter is 2.5mm and the outside diameter of the plug is 7mm.  I did note a bit of variance in hole size with the smallest about 2.3 and largest 2.6.  One was 2.8 or so on one side.  The plugs I pulled out are the same as the new ones.

 

Robert

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:55 AM, George <george@...> wrote:

 

Michael,

 

You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.   

 

Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-282-1513

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

 

Hi Robert 

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs. 

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head. 

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:

  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.


Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it. 

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before. 

<image001.gif>


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
 
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...

 

Robert Chozick

 

 

 


Re: Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900

Robert Chozick
 

I just measured the new ones and old ones.  The inside hole diameter is 2.5mm and the outside diameter of the plug is 7mm.  I did note a bit of variance in hole size with the smallest about 2.3 and largest 2.6.  One was 2.8 or so on one side.  The plugs I pulled out are the same as the new ones.

Robert

On Apr 6, 2020, at 8:55 AM, George <george@...> wrote:

Michael,
 
You are correct.   An extractor is an alternative extraction technique.   As you point out, sizing it correctly is important.   There have been sveral customers who have used it successfully.   
 
Unfortunately, I am working from home and I can’t give you a hole size for the plug, but will be able to do so the next time someone needs to extract the plugs.
 
Regards,
 
George
 
George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone:  815-282-1513
Email:  george@...
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Michael Hambrick via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2020 7:42 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Clutch Plug Removal on AP 900
 
Hi Robert 

I am glad you were able to remove the old clutch plugs. 

This is really a question for George or Roland, but after reading your description of the plug removal process I am wondering if anyone has ever tried using a screw extractor to get of the clutch plugs out. These devices are used in automotove repair shops and machine shops. They are very tricky to use, but if done correctly they will help the shop owner avoid having to do a major repair job on an engine block or cylinder head. 

There are several tricks to getting a screw extractor to work:
  1. Use the correct size extractor for the screw thread size
  1. You have to drill the correct size hole in the broken screw.
  1. Don't use too much force to turn the extractor. They are made from hardened tool steel, and they are very brittle. If you break one off in the screw you are totally out of luck.

Since the clutch plugs already have a hole drilled in them, 2/3 of the work is already done. Next, you tap the screw extractor into the hole until the flutes dig into the hole and then turn it counterclockwise while pushing down on it using a T-handle tap wrench to grip the square head of the screw extractor. The counterclockwise turning motion causes the screw extractor to grip the hole very firmly allowing it to turn the broken screw along with it. 

I DO NOT recommend trying to do this unless Roland or George sanction doing so. As both of them seem to be very mechanically inclined, I expect that they have probably tried this technique before. 

<image001.gif>


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
 
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Robert Chozick



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