Date   

Re: Mach2 User Manual

dvjbaja
 

  Please!  Get Dean his mount.    But not before MY Stowaway!  :-)



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note9, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io" <chris1011@...>
Date: 5/8/20 11:55 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 User Manual

You are only a few steps down from the mounts that I am assembling right now, so don't get discouragipated.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 User Manual

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 09:39 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
For those who ordered the low temp encoders, this requires assembly that was not achieved before we were shut down and deprived of our electronic assembly personnel. I am trying to rectify that, but it has caused a delay in shipping those mounts. At the moment we are still shut down until the end of this month by order of our governor. Hopefully after the order is lifted we can resume full operation with proper safeguards for our crew. Until then, it's just myself doing final assembly and testing. Slow going, i know, but i'm persistent.
Naturally, that would include me.  Thanks for the heads up. 
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: Mach2 User Manual

 

I've been watching these posts intently for the last few months.  I've been hesitant to post, not wanting to distract the AP crew from their excellent work.  However, I find myself in much the same situation as Dean Jacobsen, having signed onto the Mach 1 list in October 2018 and later also opted for the low temperature encoders. 

I'm not particularly knowledgeable about these things, but still I wonder why they should be more difficult to install?  I would think they would be a simple drop-in replacement, having only an upgraded optical component. 

(I also wonder where I am on the list, I've been without a useable mount for a long long time.  :) 


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Bill Long
 

Could be a possible solution. I am going to see if SharpCap PA will work in the interim. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 11:00 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
 
Perhaps the notion of selecting hardware binning instead of software may
be a path forward here.

Again, this is specific to ZWO and I don't know which camera we are
talking about (vs QHY)



On 5/8/2020 10:56 AM, Dale Ghent wrote:
> A smaller data set, yes - a 15 megapixel image data set (60/4). But there are other factors here, such as where the binning is happening. If it's happening in ZWO's SDK, and hence its ASCOM driver, then that memory could still be associated with the process "owns" the instance of the object, which would be PEMpro. I believe that's how it works between Windows COM objects and their host applications, but I could be mistaken. Getting into the inner-workings of Windows resource allocation is not for the faint of heart or weak constitution.
>
> At any rate, Windows is a schizoid mess when it comes to memory limits. Although life has gotten better in recent times mainly through the clean slate of 64bit architectures, there are a lot of legacy systems within the OS that enforce or necessitate various limits being set in strange places still, and these limits were prescribed at times when large datasets, such as 60mp images, were fanciful ideas, at most. GDI+ is one of these that, in today's terms, seems paltry and insufficient and it gets harder to maneuver around. MS has implemented newer systems that avoid some of these limitations, but using them often requires complete re-writes of applications. They aren't exactly trivial, drop-in replacements.
>
>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 1:39 PM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dale that was sort of my point - CMOS binning is different and i know ZWO at least states they handle binning in hardware.
>>
>> regardless of hardware or firmware, the net result should be a smaller file, right?
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 10:21 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:
>> Binning on CMOS is doesn't work how binning on CCDs does. CMOS binning happens in software, after the sensor is completely read out, because each pixel has its own ADC, and each ADC will have its own noise characteristics. It's how CMOS chips read out so fast compared to the line by line lumbering of a CCD. This post-readout binning is also why it's actually kind of pointless to do binning "in the camera" with CMOS chips as you can get the same effect by binning in post-product, such as by using PixInsight's IntegerResample process. You get the same results, but you're just changing where in the journey the data is being binned.
>>
>> The Sony IMX455 sensor that both of these cameras (ASI6200, QHY600) have does sport a binning function in the sensor's own firmware, however it's not utilized by QHY in their model, at least, because of inconsistent results with it and they found better results using the existing binning functions in their driver instead. I imagine ZWO would be doing something similar in their analog, or at least in their camera firmware instead of the SDK. Besides, binning here is to make the image dimensions smaller, not to make download speeds quicker (which are already quite fast when using a native camera driver.)
>>
>> As for the use of bitmaps - every image, either from a sensor or from a file off your hard drive, ends up as a bitmap in some way, shape or form when processed for display or conversion. No, bitmaps are not just a certain file format with a .BMP extension. Bitmaps are everywhere in every process, as they are just a 2D or 3D array of perl-pixel data, with the pixel data being of a particular data type (8, 16, 32bit unsigned integers, or floats). This is what data coming off a camera is, as well as what a TIFF, FITS, and XISF file are. All are bitmaps, just with different headers wrapped around that blob of binary image information. So making a dig because Ray uses the .NET Bitmap functions is a failure to understand the underpinnings of image data manipulation.
>>
>> Since my name was mentioned earlier in this thread, I will say that QHY600 and ASI6200 users who use the 32bit NINA installation will run into issues with memory, quite quickly. Due to the asynchronous nature of the application which allows for a lot of things to happen in parallel, there are often multiple copies of the image data in memory at any given moment in order to satisfy the needs of the tasks that can happen during the course of an imaging sequence. These cameras produce an image that is ca. 125MB in size, so with GDI limits and 32bit process memory limits, room to maneuver can run out real fast... much faster than with the typical 8-16 megapixel images that are more the norm when we are talking about dedicated astro cams. The color versions of these 60mp cameras are now starting to hit the rear-ends of telescopes, so it'll be interesting to see what the memory conditions are like when we're talking about live unlinked stretches that require 3x125MB data arrays instead of just 1 for a monochrome/bayered image.
>>
>> So, in short, these 60-odd megapixel whoppers took everyone by surprise in their requirements. The folks over at SGPro had issues, other apps had issues. We had issues with NINA, but luckily we decided from the start - and our start was fairly recent and so benefited from hindsight - that a 64bit offering would be on equal footing as a "classic" 32bit one, so getting relief to users who have these cameras usually meant a fairly simple cross-grade to a 64bit installation, provided their ASCOM drivers were up for the task (being compiled with AnyCPU.) Offering 64 bit analogs might work, but being able to do that depends on a few things - including whether there are any 3rd party libraries in use that do not offer 64 bit variants. It's not "easy", and it's certainly not something that can be changed overnight.
>>
>> /dale
>>
>>> On May 8, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem
>>>
>>> with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size.
>>>
>>> I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>>>> you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
>>> It may not be just a matter of file size.  The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.
>>>
>>> -Ray Gralak
>>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636282212&amp;sdata=WPtSeumAz558Ii%2BbU5LFLRGTazh8xOXLPVLZJYPileY%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=QSR9%2FGS10KNks8z1tLgHHPwN3yxzVtV2Nto0nBLCWWU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=uo%2Bmuer8tl0JfuQcAnoJiTsVBFchvQaAkxLM0yP1FRU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
>>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>
>>>> Benoit
>>>>
>>>> you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.
>>>>
>>>>        -- benoit
>>>>
>>>>        On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>>>>        >
>>>>        > Hi Brian,
>>>>        >
>>>>        > That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
>>>> that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
>>>> binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
>>>> that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
>>>> error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>>>>        >
>>>>        > -Ray Gralak
>>>>        > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=D2UqySSGE8X8BABsP0HFoHHIf%2BeyQmSVtAvpWia2Uek%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>        > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=QSR9%2FGS10KNks8z1tLgHHPwN3yxzVtV2Nto0nBLCWWU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>        > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=uo%2Bmuer8tl0JfuQcAnoJiTsVBFchvQaAkxLM0yP1FRU%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>        >
>>>>        >
>>>>        > > -----Original Message-----
>>>>        > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
>>>>        > > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
>>>>        > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>>        > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > short term fix?
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
>>>> approach
>>>>        > > problems especially on an open board like this.
>>>>        > >       If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
>>>> together.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Best,
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Jim
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Get Outlook for iOS <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=uLr%2BNjVlWApOh%2F8mhtPU3xjTETBVjxpARNgfo2yJM0Y%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>        > > ________________________________
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
>>>> <chris1011@...> via
>>>>        > > groups.io <chris1011@...>
>>>>        > >       Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
>>>>        > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>>>>        > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
>>>> to
>>>>        > > another company, no?
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Rolando
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       -----Original Message-----
>>>>        > >       From: Bill Long <bill@...>
>>>>        > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>>>>        > >       Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
>>>>        > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Roland and Marj:  It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
>>>>        > > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
>>>> Please help
>>>>        > > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
>>>> is not the
>>>>        > > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
>>>> large frames
>>>>        > > produced by the camera.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
>>>> with
>>>>        > > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       -Bill
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > ________________________________
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
>>>>        > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
>>>>        > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>>>>        > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > ________________________________
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
>>>> <groups3@...>
>>>>        > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
>>>>        > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>>>>        > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
>>>> think you
>>>>        > > are talking about.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
>>>> today! :-)
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       -Ray Gralak
>>>>        > >       Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>>>>        > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>>>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>>>>        > >
>>>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
>>>>        > >
>>>> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
>>>>        > > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>>>>        > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
>>>>        > >
>>>> pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>>>>        > >
>>>> %7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
>>>>        > > %3D&reserved=0>
>>>>        > >       Author of PEMPro V3:
>>>>        > >
>>>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C
>>>>        > >
>>>> 01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
>>>>        > >
>>>> 637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
>>>>        > > =0
>>>>        > >
>>>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%25
>>>>        > >
>>>> 7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
>>>>        > > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>        > >       Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>>>>        > >
>>>> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>>>>        > >
>>>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>>>>        > >
>>>> %7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
>>>>        > > 3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>        > >
>>>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
>>>>        > >
>>>> =02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
>>>>        > >
>>>> C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
>>>>        > > d=0>
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >       > -----Original Message-----
>>>>        > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>>>>        > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
>>>>        > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>>        > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
>>>> software
>>>>        > > that uses
>>>>        > >       > the same framework.
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
>>>> tech?
>>>>        > > Thats like 30
>>>>        > >       > years old man!
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > ________________________________
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
>>>> <groups3@...>
>>>>        > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
>>>>        > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>>>>        > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > Bill,
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
>>>> many
>>>>        > > pixels.
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
>>>> likely).
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > -Ray Gralak
>>>>        > >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>>>>        > >       > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>>>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>>>>        > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>>>> physics.com%2Fapcc->
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
>>>>        > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0
>>>>        > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>>>>        > >       > physics.com%2Fapcc-
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
>>>>        > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>        > >       > Author of PEMPro V3:
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%25
>>>>        > > 7
>>>>        > >
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
>>>>        > >       > 0
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%252
>>>>        > > 57
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
>>>>        > >       > 0>
>>>>        > >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp
>>>>        > >
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> %7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
>>>>        > >       > &amp;reserved=0
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>> 1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
>>>>        > >       > D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       > > -----Original Message-----
>>>>        > >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>>>>        > >       > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
>>>>        > >       > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
>>>>        > >       > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>>>>        > >       > >
>>>>        > >       > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
>>>>        > >       > >
>>>>        > >       > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
>>>>        > >       > >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >       >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > --
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > Brian
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > >
>>>>        > > Brian Valente
>>>>        > > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrianvalentephotography.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=nwZQgpkJbehpvQuNCzPZPMELaU6Qthc6zvoDbD%2FULKo%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>        > >
>>>>        >
>>>>        >
>>>>        >
>>>>        >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Brian Valente
>>>> portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrianvalentephotography.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cfa118e158b1649dbd66108d7f379c5cd%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245576636292206&amp;sdata=nwZQgpkJbehpvQuNCzPZPMELaU6Qthc6zvoDbD%2FULKo%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian Valente
>>> portfolio brianvalentephotography.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Valente
>> portfolio brianvalentephotography.com
>>
>
>
>





Re: Mach2 User Manual

Dominique Durand
 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 08:54 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
You are only a few steps down from the mounts that I am assembling right now, so don't get discouragipated.
So maybe before my birthday ... at the end of May ... that I will be very happy

Dominique


Re: Mach2 User Manual

Roland Christen
 

You are only a few steps down from the mounts that I am assembling right now, so don't get discouragipated.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 User Manual

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 09:39 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
For those who ordered the low temp encoders, this requires assembly that was not achieved before we were shut down and deprived of our electronic assembly personnel. I am trying to rectify that, but it has caused a delay in shipping those mounts. At the moment we are still shut down until the end of this month by order of our governor. Hopefully after the order is lifted we can resume full operation with proper safeguards for our crew. Until then, it's just myself doing final assembly and testing. Slow going, i know, but i'm persistent.
Naturally, that would include me.  Thanks for the heads up. 
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: Mach2 User Manual

Dean Jacobsen
 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 09:39 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
For those who ordered the low temp encoders, this requires assembly that was not achieved before we were shut down and deprived of our electronic assembly personnel. I am trying to rectify that, but it has caused a delay in shipping those mounts. At the moment we are still shut down until the end of this month by order of our governor. Hopefully after the order is lifted we can resume full operation with proper safeguards for our crew. Until then, it's just myself doing final assembly and testing. Slow going, i know, but i'm persistent.
Naturally, that would include me.  Thanks for the heads up. 
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: Mach2 User Manual

Dominique Durand
 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 06:39 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
For those who ordered the low temp encoders, this requires assembly that was not achieved before we were shut down and deprived of our electronic assembly personnel. I am trying to rectify that, but it has caused a delay in shipping those mounts. At the moment we are still shut down until the end of this month by order of our governor. Hopefully after the order is lifted we can resume full operation with proper safeguards for our crew. Until then, it's just myself doing final assembly and testing. Slow going, i know, but i'm persistent.
 
Roland
For my mount there is not this specific low temperature low demanded because in my region of Bordeaux snow is very rare ...Thank you Roland for all the efforts made in this complicated period.

 


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

 

Perhaps the notion of selecting hardware binning instead of software may be a path forward here.

Again, this is specific to ZWO and I don't know which camera we are talking about (vs QHY)

On 5/8/2020 10:56 AM, Dale Ghent wrote:
A smaller data set, yes - a 15 megapixel image data set (60/4). But there are other factors here, such as where the binning is happening. If it's happening in ZWO's SDK, and hence its ASCOM driver, then that memory could still be associated with the process "owns" the instance of the object, which would be PEMpro. I believe that's how it works between Windows COM objects and their host applications, but I could be mistaken. Getting into the inner-workings of Windows resource allocation is not for the faint of heart or weak constitution.

At any rate, Windows is a schizoid mess when it comes to memory limits. Although life has gotten better in recent times mainly through the clean slate of 64bit architectures, there are a lot of legacy systems within the OS that enforce or necessitate various limits being set in strange places still, and these limits were prescribed at times when large datasets, such as 60mp images, were fanciful ideas, at most. GDI+ is one of these that, in today's terms, seems paltry and insufficient and it gets harder to maneuver around. MS has implemented newer systems that avoid some of these limitations, but using them often requires complete re-writes of applications. They aren't exactly trivial, drop-in replacements.


On May 8, 2020, at 1:39 PM, Brian Valente <bvalente@gmail.com> wrote:

Dale that was sort of my point - CMOS binning is different and i know ZWO at least states they handle binning in hardware.

regardless of hardware or firmware, the net result should be a smaller file, right?

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 10:21 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@elemental.org> wrote:
Binning on CMOS is doesn't work how binning on CCDs does. CMOS binning happens in software, after the sensor is completely read out, because each pixel has its own ADC, and each ADC will have its own noise characteristics. It's how CMOS chips read out so fast compared to the line by line lumbering of a CCD. This post-readout binning is also why it's actually kind of pointless to do binning "in the camera" with CMOS chips as you can get the same effect by binning in post-product, such as by using PixInsight's IntegerResample process. You get the same results, but you're just changing where in the journey the data is being binned.

The Sony IMX455 sensor that both of these cameras (ASI6200, QHY600) have does sport a binning function in the sensor's own firmware, however it's not utilized by QHY in their model, at least, because of inconsistent results with it and they found better results using the existing binning functions in their driver instead. I imagine ZWO would be doing something similar in their analog, or at least in their camera firmware instead of the SDK. Besides, binning here is to make the image dimensions smaller, not to make download speeds quicker (which are already quite fast when using a native camera driver.)

As for the use of bitmaps - every image, either from a sensor or from a file off your hard drive, ends up as a bitmap in some way, shape or form when processed for display or conversion. No, bitmaps are not just a certain file format with a .BMP extension. Bitmaps are everywhere in every process, as they are just a 2D or 3D array of perl-pixel data, with the pixel data being of a particular data type (8, 16, 32bit unsigned integers, or floats). This is what data coming off a camera is, as well as what a TIFF, FITS, and XISF file are. All are bitmaps, just with different headers wrapped around that blob of binary image information. So making a dig because Ray uses the .NET Bitmap functions is a failure to understand the underpinnings of image data manipulation.

Since my name was mentioned earlier in this thread, I will say that QHY600 and ASI6200 users who use the 32bit NINA installation will run into issues with memory, quite quickly. Due to the asynchronous nature of the application which allows for a lot of things to happen in parallel, there are often multiple copies of the image data in memory at any given moment in order to satisfy the needs of the tasks that can happen during the course of an imaging sequence. These cameras produce an image that is ca. 125MB in size, so with GDI limits and 32bit process memory limits, room to maneuver can run out real fast... much faster than with the typical 8-16 megapixel images that are more the norm when we are talking about dedicated astro cams. The color versions of these 60mp cameras are now starting to hit the rear-ends of telescopes, so it'll be interesting to see what the memory conditions are like when we're talking about live unlinked stretches that require 3x125MB data arrays instead of just 1 for a monochrome/bayered image.

So, in short, these 60-odd megapixel whoppers took everyone by surprise in their requirements. The folks over at SGPro had issues, other apps had issues. We had issues with NINA, but luckily we decided from the start - and our start was fairly recent and so benefited from hindsight - that a 64bit offering would be on equal footing as a "classic" 32bit one, so getting relief to users who have these cameras usually meant a fairly simple cross-grade to a 64bit installation, provided their ASCOM drivers were up for the task (being compiled with AnyCPU.) Offering 64 bit analogs might work, but being able to do that depends on a few things - including whether there are any 3rd party libraries in use that do not offer 64 bit variants. It's not "easy", and it's certainly not something that can be changed overnight.

/dale

On May 8, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem

with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size.

I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
It may not be just a matter of file size. The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Benoit

you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@gmail.com> wrote:


Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >
> > short term fix?
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
approach
> > problems especially on an open board like this.
> > If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >
> > Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
together.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
<chris1011@aol.com> via
> > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
to
> > another company, no?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rolando
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Roland and Marj: It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >
> > A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
Please help
> > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
is not the
> > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
large frames
> > produced by the camera.
> >
> > If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
with
> > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
think you
> > are talking about.
> >
> > And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >
> > Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
today! :-)
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> >
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> >
%7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> > %3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%7C
> >
01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> >
637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> > =0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> >
7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
> >
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >
%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> >
=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> >
C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> > d=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
software
> > that uses
> > > the same framework.
> > >
> > > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
tech?
> > Thats like 30
> > > years old man!
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
many
> > pixels.
> > >
> > > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
likely).
> > >
> > > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc->
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > > Author of PEMPro V3:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%25
> > 7
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%2
> > 57
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0>
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> > >
> >
data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> > >
> >
%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> > > &amp;reserved=0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> > >
> >
p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> > >
> >
1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> > > D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> > > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > > >
> > > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> > > >
> > > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>







--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>




--
Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com




--
Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Dale Ghent
 

A smaller data set, yes - a 15 megapixel image data set (60/4). But there are other factors here, such as where the binning is happening. If it's happening in ZWO's SDK, and hence its ASCOM driver, then that memory could still be associated with the process "owns" the instance of the object, which would be PEMpro. I believe that's how it works between Windows COM objects and their host applications, but I could be mistaken. Getting into the inner-workings of Windows resource allocation is not for the faint of heart or weak constitution.

At any rate, Windows is a schizoid mess when it comes to memory limits. Although life has gotten better in recent times mainly through the clean slate of 64bit architectures, there are a lot of legacy systems within the OS that enforce or necessitate various limits being set in strange places still, and these limits were prescribed at times when large datasets, such as 60mp images, were fanciful ideas, at most. GDI+ is one of these that, in today's terms, seems paltry and insufficient and it gets harder to maneuver around. MS has implemented newer systems that avoid some of these limitations, but using them often requires complete re-writes of applications. They aren't exactly trivial, drop-in replacements.

On May 8, 2020, at 1:39 PM, Brian Valente <bvalente@gmail.com> wrote:

Dale that was sort of my point - CMOS binning is different and i know ZWO at least states they handle binning in hardware.

regardless of hardware or firmware, the net result should be a smaller file, right?

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 10:21 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@elemental.org> wrote:
Binning on CMOS is doesn't work how binning on CCDs does. CMOS binning happens in software, after the sensor is completely read out, because each pixel has its own ADC, and each ADC will have its own noise characteristics. It's how CMOS chips read out so fast compared to the line by line lumbering of a CCD. This post-readout binning is also why it's actually kind of pointless to do binning "in the camera" with CMOS chips as you can get the same effect by binning in post-product, such as by using PixInsight's IntegerResample process. You get the same results, but you're just changing where in the journey the data is being binned.

The Sony IMX455 sensor that both of these cameras (ASI6200, QHY600) have does sport a binning function in the sensor's own firmware, however it's not utilized by QHY in their model, at least, because of inconsistent results with it and they found better results using the existing binning functions in their driver instead. I imagine ZWO would be doing something similar in their analog, or at least in their camera firmware instead of the SDK. Besides, binning here is to make the image dimensions smaller, not to make download speeds quicker (which are already quite fast when using a native camera driver.)

As for the use of bitmaps - every image, either from a sensor or from a file off your hard drive, ends up as a bitmap in some way, shape or form when processed for display or conversion. No, bitmaps are not just a certain file format with a .BMP extension. Bitmaps are everywhere in every process, as they are just a 2D or 3D array of perl-pixel data, with the pixel data being of a particular data type (8, 16, 32bit unsigned integers, or floats). This is what data coming off a camera is, as well as what a TIFF, FITS, and XISF file are. All are bitmaps, just with different headers wrapped around that blob of binary image information. So making a dig because Ray uses the .NET Bitmap functions is a failure to understand the underpinnings of image data manipulation.

Since my name was mentioned earlier in this thread, I will say that QHY600 and ASI6200 users who use the 32bit NINA installation will run into issues with memory, quite quickly. Due to the asynchronous nature of the application which allows for a lot of things to happen in parallel, there are often multiple copies of the image data in memory at any given moment in order to satisfy the needs of the tasks that can happen during the course of an imaging sequence. These cameras produce an image that is ca. 125MB in size, so with GDI limits and 32bit process memory limits, room to maneuver can run out real fast... much faster than with the typical 8-16 megapixel images that are more the norm when we are talking about dedicated astro cams. The color versions of these 60mp cameras are now starting to hit the rear-ends of telescopes, so it'll be interesting to see what the memory conditions are like when we're talking about live unlinked stretches that require 3x125MB data arrays instead of just 1 for a monochrome/bayered image.

So, in short, these 60-odd megapixel whoppers took everyone by surprise in their requirements. The folks over at SGPro had issues, other apps had issues. We had issues with NINA, but luckily we decided from the start - and our start was fairly recent and so benefited from hindsight - that a 64bit offering would be on equal footing as a "classic" 32bit one, so getting relief to users who have these cameras usually meant a fairly simple cross-grade to a 64bit installation, provided their ASCOM drivers were up for the task (being compiled with AnyCPU.) Offering 64 bit analogs might work, but being able to do that depends on a few things - including whether there are any 3rd party libraries in use that do not offer 64 bit variants. It's not "easy", and it's certainly not something that can be changed overnight.

/dale

On May 8, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem

with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size.

I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
It may not be just a matter of file size. The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Benoit

you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@gmail.com> wrote:


Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >
> > short term fix?
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
approach
> > problems especially on an open board like this.
> > If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >
> > Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
together.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
<chris1011@aol.com> via
> > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
to
> > another company, no?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rolando
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Roland and Marj: It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >
> > A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
Please help
> > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
is not the
> > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
large frames
> > produced by the camera.
> >
> > If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
with
> > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
think you
> > are talking about.
> >
> > And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >
> > Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
today! :-)
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> >
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> >
%7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> > %3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%7C
> >
01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> >
637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> > =0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> >
7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
> >
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >
%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> >
=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> >
C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> > d=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
software
> > that uses
> > > the same framework.
> > >
> > > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
tech?
> > Thats like 30
> > > years old man!
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
many
> > pixels.
> > >
> > > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
likely).
> > >
> > > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc->
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > > Author of PEMPro V3:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%25
> > 7
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%2
> > 57
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0>
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> > >
> >
data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> > >
> >
%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> > > &amp;reserved=0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> > >
> >
p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> > >
> >
1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> > > D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> > > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > > >
> > > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> > > >
> > > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>







--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>





--
Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com





--
Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Steven Panish
 

The ZWO 1600 has BOTH hardware and software binning, selectable, in the native driver.

Ray, I want to thank you for your work.  You and AP are so responsive to customers it is a wonder you ever get any *real* work done.  Having run a small software development firm, I know how difficult it can be to satisfy everyone.  And have a life...

best,

Steve

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 1:40 PM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
Dale that was sort of my point - CMOS binning is different and i know ZWO at least states they handle binning in hardware. 

regardless of hardware or firmware, the net result should be a smaller file, right?

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 10:21 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:
Binning on CMOS is doesn't work how binning on CCDs does. CMOS binning happens in software, after the sensor is completely read out, because each pixel has its own ADC, and each ADC will have its own noise characteristics. It's how CMOS chips read out so fast compared to the line by line lumbering of a CCD. This post-readout binning is also why it's actually kind of pointless to do binning "in the camera" with CMOS chips as you can get the same effect by binning in post-product, such as by using PixInsight's IntegerResample process. You get the same results, but you're just changing where in the journey the data is being binned.

The Sony IMX455 sensor that both of these cameras (ASI6200, QHY600) have does sport a binning function in the sensor's own firmware, however it's not utilized by QHY in their model, at least, because of inconsistent results with it and they found better results using the existing binning functions in their driver instead. I imagine ZWO would be doing something similar in their analog, or at least in their camera firmware instead of the SDK. Besides, binning here is to make the image dimensions smaller, not to make download speeds quicker (which are already quite fast when using a native camera driver.)

As for the use of bitmaps - every image, either from a sensor or from a file off your hard drive, ends up as a bitmap in some way, shape or form when processed for display or conversion. No, bitmaps are not just a certain file format with a .BMP extension. Bitmaps are everywhere in every process, as they are just a 2D or 3D array of perl-pixel data, with the pixel data being of a particular data type (8, 16, 32bit unsigned integers, or floats). This is what data coming off a camera is, as well as what a TIFF, FITS, and XISF file are. All are bitmaps, just with different headers wrapped around that blob of binary image information. So making a dig because Ray uses the .NET Bitmap functions is a failure to understand the underpinnings of image data manipulation.

Since my name was mentioned earlier in this thread, I will say that QHY600 and ASI6200 users who use the 32bit NINA installation will run into issues with memory, quite quickly. Due to the asynchronous nature of the application which allows for a lot of things to happen in parallel, there are often multiple copies of the image data in memory at any given moment in order to satisfy the needs of the tasks that can happen during the course of an imaging sequence. These cameras produce an image that is ca. 125MB in size, so with GDI limits and 32bit process memory limits, room to maneuver can run out real fast... much faster than with the typical 8-16 megapixel images that are more the norm when we are talking about dedicated astro cams. The color versions of these 60mp cameras are now starting to hit the rear-ends of telescopes, so it'll be interesting to see what the memory conditions are like when we're talking about live unlinked stretches that require 3x125MB data arrays instead of just 1 for a monochrome/bayered image.

So, in short, these 60-odd megapixel whoppers took everyone by surprise in their requirements. The folks over at SGPro had issues, other apps had issues. We had issues with NINA, but luckily we decided from the start - and our start was fairly recent and so benefited from hindsight - that a 64bit offering would be on equal footing as a "classic" 32bit one, so getting relief to users who have these cameras usually meant a fairly simple cross-grade to a 64bit installation, provided their ASCOM drivers were up for the task (being compiled with AnyCPU.) Offering 64 bit analogs might work, but being able to do that depends on a few things - including whether there are any 3rd party libraries in use that do not offer 64 bit variants. It's not "easy", and it's certainly not something that can be changed overnight.

/dale

> On May 8, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem
>
> with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size.
>
> I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> > you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
>
> It may not be just a matter of file size.  The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Benoit
> >
> > you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >       Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.
> >
> >       -- benoit
> >
> >       On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> >       >
> >       > Hi Brian,
> >       >
> >       > That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
> > that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
> > binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
> > that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
> > error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
> >       >
> >       > -Ray Gralak
> >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> >       > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > > -----Original Message-----
> >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> >       > > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> >       > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> >       > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >       > >
> >       > > short term fix?
> >       > >
> >       > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
> > approach
> >       > > problems especially on an open board like this.
> >       > >       If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >       > >
> >       > >       Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
> > together.
> >       > >
> >       > >       Best,
> >       > >
> >       > >       Jim
> >       > >
> >       > >       Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> >       > > ________________________________
> >       > >
> >       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
> > <chris1011@...> via
> >       > > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> >       > >       Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >       PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
> > to
> >       > > another company, no?
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Rolando
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       -----Original Message-----
> >       > >       From: Bill Long <bill@...>
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Roland and Marj:  It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> >       > > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >       > >
> >       > >       A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
> > Please help
> >       > > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
> > is not the
> >       > > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
> > large frames
> >       > > produced by the camera.
> >       > >
> >       > >       If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
> > with
> >       > > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >       > >
> >       > >       -Bill
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > ________________________________
> >       > >
> >       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
> >       > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >       Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >       > >
> >       > > ________________________________
> >       > >
> >       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
> > <groups3@...>
> >       > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
> > think you
> >       > > are talking about.
> >       > >
> >       > >       And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >       > >
> >       > >       Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
> > today! :-)
> >       > >
> >       > >       -Ray Gralak
> >       > >       Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> >       > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> >       > >
> > aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> >       > > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> >       > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > >
> > pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> >       > >
> > %7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> >       > > %3D&reserved=0>
> >       > >       Author of PEMPro V3:
> >       > >
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C
> >       > >
> > 01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> >       > >
> > 637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> >       > > =0
> >       > >
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> >       > >
> > 7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> >       > > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> >       > >       Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >       > >
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
> >       > >
> > ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >       > >
> > %7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> >       > > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> >       > >
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> >       > >
> > =02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> >       > >
> > C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> >       > > d=0>
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       > -----Original Message-----
> >       > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> >       > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> >       > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> >       > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
> > software
> >       > > that uses
> >       > >       > the same framework.
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
> > tech?
> >       > > Thats like 30
> >       > >       > years old man!
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > ________________________________
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
> > <groups3@...>
> >       > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> >       > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > Bill,
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
> > many
> >       > > pixels.
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
> > likely).
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > -Ray Gralak
> >       > >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> >       > >       > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc->
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> >       > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> >       > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> >       > >       > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> >       > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> >       > >       > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%25
> >       > > 7
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> >       > >       > 0
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%2
> >       > > 57
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> >       > >       > 0>
> >       > >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > %7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> >       > >       > &amp;reserved=0
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > 1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> >       > >       > D&amp;reserved=0>
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > > -----Original Message-----
> >       > >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> >       > >       > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> >       > >       > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> >       > >       > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >       > >
> >       > >       > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> >       > >       > >
> >       > >       > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> >       > >       > >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > --
> >       > >
> >       > > Brian
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > Brian Valente
> >       > > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >       > >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian
>
>
>
> Brian Valente
> portfolio brianvalentephotography.com
>






--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

 

Dale that was sort of my point - CMOS binning is different and i know ZWO at least states they handle binning in hardware. 

regardless of hardware or firmware, the net result should be a smaller file, right?

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 10:21 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:
Binning on CMOS is doesn't work how binning on CCDs does. CMOS binning happens in software, after the sensor is completely read out, because each pixel has its own ADC, and each ADC will have its own noise characteristics. It's how CMOS chips read out so fast compared to the line by line lumbering of a CCD. This post-readout binning is also why it's actually kind of pointless to do binning "in the camera" with CMOS chips as you can get the same effect by binning in post-product, such as by using PixInsight's IntegerResample process. You get the same results, but you're just changing where in the journey the data is being binned.

The Sony IMX455 sensor that both of these cameras (ASI6200, QHY600) have does sport a binning function in the sensor's own firmware, however it's not utilized by QHY in their model, at least, because of inconsistent results with it and they found better results using the existing binning functions in their driver instead. I imagine ZWO would be doing something similar in their analog, or at least in their camera firmware instead of the SDK. Besides, binning here is to make the image dimensions smaller, not to make download speeds quicker (which are already quite fast when using a native camera driver.)

As for the use of bitmaps - every image, either from a sensor or from a file off your hard drive, ends up as a bitmap in some way, shape or form when processed for display or conversion. No, bitmaps are not just a certain file format with a .BMP extension. Bitmaps are everywhere in every process, as they are just a 2D or 3D array of perl-pixel data, with the pixel data being of a particular data type (8, 16, 32bit unsigned integers, or floats). This is what data coming off a camera is, as well as what a TIFF, FITS, and XISF file are. All are bitmaps, just with different headers wrapped around that blob of binary image information. So making a dig because Ray uses the .NET Bitmap functions is a failure to understand the underpinnings of image data manipulation.

Since my name was mentioned earlier in this thread, I will say that QHY600 and ASI6200 users who use the 32bit NINA installation will run into issues with memory, quite quickly. Due to the asynchronous nature of the application which allows for a lot of things to happen in parallel, there are often multiple copies of the image data in memory at any given moment in order to satisfy the needs of the tasks that can happen during the course of an imaging sequence. These cameras produce an image that is ca. 125MB in size, so with GDI limits and 32bit process memory limits, room to maneuver can run out real fast... much faster than with the typical 8-16 megapixel images that are more the norm when we are talking about dedicated astro cams. The color versions of these 60mp cameras are now starting to hit the rear-ends of telescopes, so it'll be interesting to see what the memory conditions are like when we're talking about live unlinked stretches that require 3x125MB data arrays instead of just 1 for a monochrome/bayered image.

So, in short, these 60-odd megapixel whoppers took everyone by surprise in their requirements. The folks over at SGPro had issues, other apps had issues. We had issues with NINA, but luckily we decided from the start - and our start was fairly recent and so benefited from hindsight - that a 64bit offering would be on equal footing as a "classic" 32bit one, so getting relief to users who have these cameras usually meant a fairly simple cross-grade to a 64bit installation, provided their ASCOM drivers were up for the task (being compiled with AnyCPU.) Offering 64 bit analogs might work, but being able to do that depends on a few things - including whether there are any 3rd party libraries in use that do not offer 64 bit variants. It's not "easy", and it's certainly not something that can be changed overnight.

/dale

> On May 8, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem
>
> with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size.
>
> I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> > you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
>
> It may not be just a matter of file size.  The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Benoit
> >
> > you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >       Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.
> >
> >       -- benoit
> >
> >       On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> >       >
> >       > Hi Brian,
> >       >
> >       > That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
> > that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
> > binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
> > that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
> > error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
> >       >
> >       > -Ray Gralak
> >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> >       > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > > -----Original Message-----
> >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> >       > > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> >       > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> >       > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >       > >
> >       > > short term fix?
> >       > >
> >       > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
> > approach
> >       > > problems especially on an open board like this.
> >       > >       If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >       > >
> >       > >       Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
> > together.
> >       > >
> >       > >       Best,
> >       > >
> >       > >       Jim
> >       > >
> >       > >       Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> >       > > ________________________________
> >       > >
> >       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
> > <chris1011@...> via
> >       > > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> >       > >       Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >       PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
> > to
> >       > > another company, no?
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Rolando
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       -----Original Message-----
> >       > >       From: Bill Long <bill@...>
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Roland and Marj:  It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> >       > > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >       > >
> >       > >       A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
> > Please help
> >       > > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
> > is not the
> >       > > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
> > large frames
> >       > > produced by the camera.
> >       > >
> >       > >       If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
> > with
> >       > > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >       > >
> >       > >       -Bill
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > ________________________________
> >       > >
> >       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
> >       > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >       Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >       > >
> >       > > ________________________________
> >       > >
> >       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
> > <groups3@...>
> >       > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> >       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
> > think you
> >       > > are talking about.
> >       > >
> >       > >       And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >       > >
> >       > >       Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
> > today! :-)
> >       > >
> >       > >       -Ray Gralak
> >       > >       Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> >       > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> >       > >
> > aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> >       > > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> >       > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > >
> > pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> >       > >
> > %7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> >       > > %3D&reserved=0>
> >       > >       Author of PEMPro V3:
> >       > >
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C
> >       > >
> > 01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> >       > >
> > 637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> >       > > =0
> >       > >
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> >       > >
> > 7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> >       > > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> >       > >       Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >       > >
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
> >       > >
> > ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >       > >
> > %7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> >       > > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> >       > >
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> >       > >
> > =02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> >       > >
> > C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> >       > > d=0>
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >       > -----Original Message-----
> >       > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> >       > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> >       > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> >       > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
> > software
> >       > > that uses
> >       > >       > the same framework.
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
> > tech?
> >       > > Thats like 30
> >       > >       > years old man!
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > ________________________________
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
> > <groups3@...>
> >       > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> >       > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > Bill,
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
> > many
> >       > > pixels.
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
> > likely).
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > -Ray Gralak
> >       > >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> >       > >       > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc->
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> >       > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> >       > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> >       > >       > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> >       > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> >       > >       > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%25
> >       > > 7
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> >       > >       > 0
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%2
> >       > > 57
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> >       > >       > 0>
> >       > >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > %7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> >       > >       > &amp;reserved=0
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> > 1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> >       > >       > D&amp;reserved=0>
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       > > -----Original Message-----
> >       > >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> >       > >       > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> >       > >       > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> >       > >       > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >       > >
> >       > >       > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> >       > >       > >
> >       > >       > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> >       > >       > >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >       >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > --
> >       > >
> >       > > Brian
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > >
> >       > > Brian Valente
> >       > > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >       > >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian
>
>
>
> Brian Valente
> portfolio brianvalentephotography.com
>






--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Dale Ghent
 

Binning on CMOS is doesn't work how binning on CCDs does. CMOS binning happens in software, after the sensor is completely read out, because each pixel has its own ADC, and each ADC will have its own noise characteristics. It's how CMOS chips read out so fast compared to the line by line lumbering of a CCD. This post-readout binning is also why it's actually kind of pointless to do binning "in the camera" with CMOS chips as you can get the same effect by binning in post-product, such as by using PixInsight's IntegerResample process. You get the same results, but you're just changing where in the journey the data is being binned.

The Sony IMX455 sensor that both of these cameras (ASI6200, QHY600) have does sport a binning function in the sensor's own firmware, however it's not utilized by QHY in their model, at least, because of inconsistent results with it and they found better results using the existing binning functions in their driver instead. I imagine ZWO would be doing something similar in their analog, or at least in their camera firmware instead of the SDK. Besides, binning here is to make the image dimensions smaller, not to make download speeds quicker (which are already quite fast when using a native camera driver.)

As for the use of bitmaps - every image, either from a sensor or from a file off your hard drive, ends up as a bitmap in some way, shape or form when processed for display or conversion. No, bitmaps are not just a certain file format with a .BMP extension. Bitmaps are everywhere in every process, as they are just a 2D or 3D array of perl-pixel data, with the pixel data being of a particular data type (8, 16, 32bit unsigned integers, or floats). This is what data coming off a camera is, as well as what a TIFF, FITS, and XISF file are. All are bitmaps, just with different headers wrapped around that blob of binary image information. So making a dig because Ray uses the .NET Bitmap functions is a failure to understand the underpinnings of image data manipulation.

Since my name was mentioned earlier in this thread, I will say that QHY600 and ASI6200 users who use the 32bit NINA installation will run into issues with memory, quite quickly. Due to the asynchronous nature of the application which allows for a lot of things to happen in parallel, there are often multiple copies of the image data in memory at any given moment in order to satisfy the needs of the tasks that can happen during the course of an imaging sequence. These cameras produce an image that is ca. 125MB in size, so with GDI limits and 32bit process memory limits, room to maneuver can run out real fast... much faster than with the typical 8-16 megapixel images that are more the norm when we are talking about dedicated astro cams. The color versions of these 60mp cameras are now starting to hit the rear-ends of telescopes, so it'll be interesting to see what the memory conditions are like when we're talking about live unlinked stretches that require 3x125MB data arrays instead of just 1 for a monochrome/bayered image.

So, in short, these 60-odd megapixel whoppers took everyone by surprise in their requirements. The folks over at SGPro had issues, other apps had issues. We had issues with NINA, but luckily we decided from the start - and our start was fairly recent and so benefited from hindsight - that a 64bit offering would be on equal footing as a "classic" 32bit one, so getting relief to users who have these cameras usually meant a fairly simple cross-grade to a 64bit installation, provided their ASCOM drivers were up for the task (being compiled with AnyCPU.) Offering 64 bit analogs might work, but being able to do that depends on a few things - including whether there are any 3rd party libraries in use that do not offer 64 bit variants. It's not "easy", and it's certainly not something that can be changed overnight.

/dale

On May 8, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Brian Valente <bvalente@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem

with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size.

I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
It may not be just a matter of file size. The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Benoit

you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@gmail.com> wrote:


Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >
> > short term fix?
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
approach
> > problems especially on an open board like this.
> > If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >
> > Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
together.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
<chris1011@aol.com> via
> > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
to
> > another company, no?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rolando
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Roland and Marj: It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >
> > A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
Please help
> > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
is not the
> > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
large frames
> > produced by the camera.
> >
> > If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
with
> > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
think you
> > are talking about.
> >
> > And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >
> > Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
today! :-)
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> >
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> >
%7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> > %3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%7C
> >
01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> >
637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> > =0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> >
7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
> >
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >
%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> >
=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> >
C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> > d=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
software
> > that uses
> > > the same framework.
> > >
> > > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
tech?
> > Thats like 30
> > > years old man!
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
many
> > pixels.
> > >
> > > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
likely).
> > >
> > > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc->
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > > Author of PEMPro V3:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%25
> > 7
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%2
> > 57
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0>
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> > >
> >
data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> > >
> >
%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> > > &amp;reserved=0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> > >
> >
p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> > >
> >
1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> > > D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> > > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > > >
> > > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> > > >
> > > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>







--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>





--
Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Tyrel Smith
 

According to the manual the 6200 supports “hardware” binning up to bin 3x3, and software binning up to bin 4x4. If I’m not mistaken, I thought I read that their hardware binning is only possible using their native driver, and not ascom. I’m not sure if PemPro has camera control software support for anything that has access to the native driver at this time. My understanding is also that hardware binning is basically on-camera software binning that speeds up download time. That said, if PemPro could interface with something running the native driver, then perhaps bin 3 files coming off the camera will be small enough to work. Maybe someone could grab a bin3 file using asi cap and check the file size?

I think the ascom driver has an 8 bit raw mode as well, but I don’t know if the camera is actually compatible with this mode, so someone would need to test it for functionality, and if it actually makes a difference.

Is it possible for PemPro to respect Subframe settings in SkyX or other camera control software?


I have the QHY version arriving tomorrow, and I’ll put this at the top of my testing list. I believe it handles binning differently, with no on-camera bin support. Hard to understand from their documentation. I don’t know if the QHY ascom driver has an 8 bit raw mode.


Using a different camera for PemPro polar alignment and then mounting up my imaging camera would be a workaround, but not something I’d want to do long-term. PemPro is an integral part of my workflow, so I hope there is a reasonable solution to be found. 


Re: Mach2 User Manual

Roland Christen
 

For those who ordered the low temp encoders, this requires assembly that was not achieved before we were shut down and deprived of our electronic assembly personnel. I am trying to rectify that, but it has caused a delay in shipping those mounts. At the moment we are still shut down until the end of this month by order of our governor. Hopefully after the order is lifted we can resume full operation with proper safeguards for our crew. Until then, it's just myself doing final assembly and testing. Slow going, i know, but i'm persistent.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 10:53 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 User Manual

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 05:03 PM, Dean Jacobsen wrote:
We are getting there Dominique.  ;-)  Not too long now
Thanks Dean, the wait gives me stomach cramps ... I'm in the starting_block


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

 

Yes I realize that may solve the problem, but you mentioned binning doesn't seem to solve the problem

with a sensor that size, if binning does work, i think it supports at least bin 3 hardware so you may end up with a workable file size. 

I don't know how QHY does binning (cmos binning seems to work differently) so if Bill has QHY that may not help either

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:52 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes

It may not be just a matter of file size.  The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>
> Benoit
>
> you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@...> wrote:
>
>
>       Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.
>
>       -- benoit
>
>       On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>       >
>       > Hi Brian,
>       >
>       > That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
> that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
> binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
> that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
> error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>       >
>       > -Ray Gralak
>       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
>       > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
>       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>       >
>       >
>       > > -----Original Message-----
>       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
>       > > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
>       > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>       > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >
>       > > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
>       > >
>       > > short term fix?
>       > >
>       > > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >       Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
> approach
>       > > problems especially on an open board like this.
>       > >       If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
>       > >
>       > >       Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
> together.
>       > >
>       > >       Best,
>       > >
>       > >       Jim
>       > >
>       > >       Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>       > > ________________________________
>       > >
>       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
> <chris1011@...> via
>       > > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
>       > >       Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
>       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >
>       > >       PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
> to
>       > > another company, no?
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >       Rolando
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >       -----Original Message-----
>       > >       From: Bill Long <bill@...>
>       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>       > >       Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
>       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >       Roland and Marj:  It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
>       > > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
>       > >
>       > >       A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
> Please help
>       > > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
> is not the
>       > > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
> large frames
>       > > produced by the camera.
>       > >
>       > >       If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
> with
>       > > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
>       > >
>       > >       -Bill
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > > ________________________________
>       > >
>       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
>       > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
>       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >
>       > >       Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
>       > >
>       > > ________________________________
>       > >
>       > >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
> <groups3@...>
>       > >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
>       > >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>       > >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >       Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
> think you
>       > > are talking about.
>       > >
>       > >       And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
>       > >
>       > >       Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
> today! :-)
>       > >
>       > >       -Ray Gralak
>       > >       Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>       > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>       > >
> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
>       > >
> aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
>       > > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>       > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
>       > >
> pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>       > >
> %7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
>       > > %3D&reserved=0>
>       > >       Author of PEMPro V3:
>       > >
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C
>       > >
> 01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
>       > >
> 637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
>       > > =0
>       > >
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
>       > >
> 7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
>       > > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
>       > >       Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>       > >
> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>       > >
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>       > >
> %7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
>       > > 3D&amp;reserved=0
>       > >
> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
>       > >
> =02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
>       > >
> C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
>       > > d=0>
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >       > -----Original Message-----
>       > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>       > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
>       > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>       > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >       >
>       > >       > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
> software
>       > > that uses
>       > >       > the same framework.
>       > >       >
>       > >       > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
> tech?
>       > > Thats like 30
>       > >       > years old man!
>       > >       >
>       > >       > ________________________________
>       > >       >
>       > >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
> <groups3@...>
>       > >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
>       > >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>       > >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >       >
>       > >       > Bill,
>       > >       >
>       > >       > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
> many
>       > > pixels.
>       > >       >
>       > >       > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
> likely).
>       > >       >
>       > >       > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
>       > >       >
>       > >       > -Ray Gralak
>       > >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>       > >       > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>       > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> physics.com%2Fapcc->
>       > >       >
>       > >
> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>       > >       >
>       > >
> aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
>       > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0
>       > > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>       > >       > physics.com%2Fapcc-
>       > >       >
>       > >
> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>       > >       >
>       > >
> aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
>       > >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
>       > >       > Author of PEMPro V3:
>       > >       >
>       > >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%25
>       > > 7
>       > >
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
>       > >       >
>       > >
> C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>       > >       >
>       > >
> 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
>       > >       > 0
>       > >       >
>       > >
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%2
>       > > 57
>       > >       >
>       > >
> C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>       > >       >
>       > >
> 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
>       > >       > 0>
>       > >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>       > >       >
>       > >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp
>       > >
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
>       > >       >
>       > >
> data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>       > >       >
>       > >
> %7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
>       > >       > &amp;reserved=0
>       > >       >
>       > >
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
>       > >       >
>       > >
> p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>       > >       >
>       > >
> 1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
>       > >       > D&amp;reserved=0>
>       > >       >
>       > >       >
>       > >       > > -----Original Message-----
>       > >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>       > >       > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
>       > >       > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
>       > >       > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>       > >       > >
>       > >       > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
>       > >       > >
>       > >       > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
>       > >       > >
>       > >       >
>       > >       >
>       > >       >
>       > >       >
>       > >       >
>       > >       >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > > --
>       > >
>       > > Brian
>       > >
>       > >
>       > >
>       > > Brian Valente
>       > > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
>       > >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>       >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Brian
>
>
>
> Brian Valente
> portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
>






--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Mach2 User Manual

Dominique Durand
 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 05:03 PM, Dean Jacobsen wrote:
We are getting there Dominique.  ;-)  Not too long now
Thanks Dean, the wait gives me stomach cramps ... I'm in the starting_block


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Ray Gralak
 

you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes
It may not be just a matter of file size. The problem is a memory allocation failure trying to download and save 3 images in memory.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Benoit

you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@gmail.com> wrote:


Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried
that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then
binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step
that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic
error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >
> > short term fix?
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to
approach
> > problems especially on an open board like this.
> > If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >
> > Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working
together.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2
<chris1011@aol.com> via
> > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs
to
> > another company, no?
> >
> >
> >
> > Rolando
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Roland and Marj: It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >
> > A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market.
Please help
> > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework
is not the
> > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the
large frames
> > produced by the camera.
> >
> > If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA
with
> > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> > Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I
think you
> > are talking about.
> >
> > And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >
> > Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all
today! :-)
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> >
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >
pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> >
%7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> > %3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%7C
> >
01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> >
637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> > =0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> >
7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
> >
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >
%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> >
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> >
=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> >
C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> > d=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other
software
> > that uses
> > > the same framework.
> > >
> > > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap
tech?
> > Thats like 30
> > > years old man!
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that
many
> > pixels.
> > >
> > > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not
likely).
> > >
> > > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc->
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > >
> >
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> > > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > > Author of PEMPro V3:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%25
> > 7
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%2
> > 57
> > >
> >
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> > >
> >
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> > > 0>
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> > >
> >
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> > >
> >
data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> > >
> >
%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> > > &amp;reserved=0
> > >
> >
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> > >
> >
p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> > >
> >
1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> > > D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> > > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> > > >
> > > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> > > >
> > > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>







--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

 

Benoit

you could do a quick test now, just take a frame bin1 and a frame bin 2 and look at the file sizes

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:16 AM Benoit Schillings <benoit.schillings@...> wrote:
Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
> > Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?
> >
> > short term fix?
> >
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >       Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to approach
> > problems especially on an open board like this.
> >       If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.
> >
> >       Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working together.
> >
> >       Best,
> >
> >       Jim
> >
> >       Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> > ________________________________
> >
> >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via
> > groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
> >       Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
> >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >       PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs to
> > another company, no?
> >
> >
> >
> >       Rolando
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >       -----Original Message-----
> >       From: Bill Long <bill@...>
> >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
> >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> >       Roland and Marj:  It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
> > Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.
> >
> >       A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market. Please help
> > Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework is not the
> > problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the large frames
> > produced by the camera.
> >
> >       If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA with
> > supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.
> >
> >       -Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
> >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
> >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >       Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >       From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> >       Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
> >       To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> >
> >       Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I think you
> > are talking about.
> >
> >       And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.
> >
> >       Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all today! :-)
> >
> >       -Ray Gralak
> >       Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
> > aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
> > %2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
> > %7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
> > %3D&reserved=0>
> >       Author of PEMPro V3:
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C
> > 01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
> > 637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
> > =0
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
> > 7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
> > 5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
> >       Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
> > ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> > %7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
> > 3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
> > =02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
> > C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
> > d=0>
> >
> >
> >       > -----Original Message-----
> >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       >
> >       > The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other software
> > that uses
> >       > the same framework.
> >       >
> >       > Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap tech?
> > Thats like 30
> >       > years old man!
> >       >
> >       > ________________________________
> >       >
> >       > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> >       > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> >       > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >       > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       >
> >       > Bill,
> >       >
> >       > The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that many
> > pixels.
> >       >
> >       > It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not likely).
> >       >
> >       > Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
> >       >
> >       > -Ray Gralak
> >       > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> >       > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc->
> >       >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> >       >
> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> >       > physics.com%2Fapcc-
> >       >
> > pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
> >       >
> > aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> >       > %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> >       > Author of PEMPro V3:
> >       >
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%25
> > 7
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
> >       >
> > C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> >       >
> > 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> >       > 0
> >       >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%2
> > 57
> >       >
> > C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
> >       >
> > 37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> >       > 0>
> >       > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> >       >
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
> >       >
> > data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
> >       >
> > %7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> >       > &amp;reserved=0
> >       >
> > <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
> >       >
> > p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
> >       >
> > 1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> >       > D&amp;reserved=0>
> >       >
> >       >
> >       > > -----Original Message-----
> >       > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> >       > > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> >       > > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> >       > > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >       > >
> >       > > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> >       > >
> >       > > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> >       > >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >       >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Brian
> >
> >
> >
> > Brian Valente
> > portfolio brianvalentephotography.com  <http://brianvalentephotography.com>
> >
>
>
>
>





--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Benoit,

Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.
Thanks, I'll contact you offline!

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Benoit Schillings
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Hi Brian,

That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried that,
but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then binning
in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step that
requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic error
data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?

short term fix?

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@hotmail.com> wrote:


Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to approach
problems especially on an open board like this.
If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.

Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working together.

Best,

Jim

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com> via
groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs to
another company, no?



Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600


Roland and Marj: It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.

A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market. Please help
Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework is not
the
problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the large
frames
produced by the camera.

If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA with
supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.

-Bill



________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600


Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I think you
are talking about.

And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.

Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all today! :-)

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
%2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
%7C1%7C0%7C637245462227232671&sdata=W5QKTOp87mNjgv3W9HgRNDbJCCZmfi%2FPu4AAGwHwlMA
%3D&reserved=0>
Author of PEMPro V3:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%7C
01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
C0%7C637245462227262657&sdata=nU3pmytIcu%2BREgEGCsQXrQ2rtgCItXKOhgihR%2Ffk0n0%3D&reserve
d=0>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>
> The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other software
that uses
> the same framework.
>
> Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap tech?
Thats like 30
> years old man!
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak
<groups3@gralak.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>
> Bill,
>
> The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that many
pixels.
>
> It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not likely).
>
> Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc->
>
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> %3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> Author of PEMPro V3:
>
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%25
7
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
>
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> 0
>
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%2
57
>
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> 0>
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
>
data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>
%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> &amp;reserved=0
>
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
>
p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>
1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> D&amp;reserved=0>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> >
> > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>












--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>



Re: PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Benoit Schillings
 

Ray, I do have a 6200 you can borrow for a few days.

-- benoit

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 8:12 AM Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Hi Brian,

That was the first thing I suggested to Bill when he contacted me privately via email. Bill later said he tried that, but it didn't seem to help. That may be a sign that the camera driver may be downloading full images then binning in software. The reason the limit is being hit is that this is happening on the PEMPro polar alignment step that requires not one, but three images. When only a single image needs to be allocated (e.g. acquiring periodic error data) the memory limit shouldn't be hit.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Is it possible you can just bin it x2 to reduce file size?

short term fix?

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 7:57 AM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@hotmail.com> wrote:


Bill, please relax and be respectful. Demanding someone do this or that is not a good way to approach
problems especially on an open board like this.
If you want to vent your anger I would suggest you send messages privately.

Problems can be sometimes difficult to solve but solutions are more easily found when working together.

Best,

Jim

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com> via
groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 10:50:10 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

PEMPro is not an Astro-Physics product. We did not develop with the software. I believe it belongs to
another company, no?



Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 8, 2020 1:42 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600


Roland and Marj: It seems that Ray is not interested in fixing this problem, and would rather blame
Microsoft (inappropriately, and incorrectly) for this problem.

A-P -- there is a huge problem with the new CMOS full frame cameras that are on the market. Please help
Ray prioritize fixing this issue and do not listen to his false blame on Microsoft, as Microsoft's framework is not the
problem, which is clearly apparent with a multitude of other software programs that work fine with the large frames
produced by the camera.

If Ray needs a friend, I would suggest he reaches out to Dale, whome has done a good job in NINA with
supporting the camera, instead of blaming Microsoft.

-Bill



________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:09 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600

Thanks for the history lesson. Fix the software and stop blaming Microsoft.

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600


Bitmaps, the class in .Net Framework, is not the same as the low-level bitmaps in windows that I think you
are talking about.

And it's not 30 years old... only about 20 years old, which is why the limit was only 1GB.

Back then 1GB was an impossible amount of graphics memory for a desktop computer. Not at all today! :-)

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
aaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=RCUY6FJK6oDclqzNPTfUIUtY26hSnOdOq6XLvHtu0
%2BA%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
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%3D&reserved=0>
Author of PEMPro V3:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%7C
01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C
637245148877595454&amp;sdata=KOiD8aiXzfwPp8Dq7Yz4372gHRqCkrroWnyNDyHHElw%3D&amp;reserved
=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%7C01%
7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C63724
5462227252656&sdata=fPesqSk4kGljTCi7ASQZp1KpYoMTAFVwm1CkTqXTjzg%3D&reserved=0>
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Ce7b18d28e91e424a10f008d7f3162d22%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
%7C0%7C637245148877595454&amp;sdata=wImqBU4%2BMfewx%2ByEQXOwGarlGaUgaKnhpdKikU9i9Sk%
3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&data
=02%7C01%7C%7Ccf0c652e300e420bc57208d7f35f2251%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7
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d=0>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:58 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>
> The problem IS NOT on the .Net Framework, Ray. The camera works perfectly fine with other software
that uses
> the same framework.
>
> Bitmaps... which PEMPro uses, should be suspect. Why the hell does PEMPro rely on bitmap tech?
Thats like 30
> years old man!
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:52 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
>
> Bill,
>
> The problem is that the .NET framework cannot allocate enough memory with a camera with that many
pixels.
>
> It could be fixed by Microsoft increasing the .NET Framework GDI+ memory limit above 1GB (not likely).
>
> Or, you could use a cheap webcam instead of a 60 megapixel camera.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc->
>
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> %3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaa
>
aaa%7C1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=7TbKQdPBlblIyMj7LT7E7E32kEEeSGg1XMfP8JBoESs
> %3D&amp;reserved=0>
> Author of PEMPro V3:
>
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%25
7
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&data=02%257>
>
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> 0
>
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%2
57
>
C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6
>
37245139697681529&amp;sdata=HteSobGSbPXxPkKC6A4nthVHtkgCZZXVCxsB57tRyuA%3D&amp;reserved=
> 0>
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&> ;
>
data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
>
%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3D
> &amp;reserved=0
>
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&am
>
p;data=02%7C01%7C%7C12f50762ffc54252cca108d7f3140a3f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
>
1%7C0%7C637245139697681529&amp;sdata=rYyjwpjolpDyG5kZ%2Fq2F2yqT6eKxWaZeBCOWVQeCAzQ%3
> D&amp;reserved=0>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 10:29 PM
> > To: ap-ug@groups.io; Astro-Physics GTO Users Group
> > Subject: [ap-gto] PEMPro on ASI6200 & QHY600
> >
> > Is non-functional. The frames even binned 4x4 do not work.
> >
> > The software is broken and a LOT of people depend on this to work. We need immediate fixes!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>












--

Brian



Brian Valente
portfolio brianvalentephotography.com <http://brianvalentephotography.com>


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