On Apr 12, 2021, at 17:17, W Hilmo <y.groups@hilmo.net> wrote:

" and I think you might need the camera add-on for TSX to use Image Link? I'm not 100% sure on that."

You do not need the camera add-on to use TSX as the plate solver in APPM. I have MaxIm, TSX, (full) PinPoint, SGP, NINA, PlateSolve2 and ASTAP and have used them all in various combinations. If I remember right, the capture software and solving software seems to be pretty decoupled from each other in APPM. If you supported capture software, you can independently pick supported plate solve software. For what it's worth, I have found TSX to have a really fast and robust plate solve routine. It seems to do better than the others with difficult to solve fields (either in a star-poor area, or because of passing thin clouds).

Since I've switched to NINA for my image capture, I've used MaxIm as my capture software for APPM. I am looking forward to having both ASCOM camera support and ASTAP support in APPM. If you have a camera with ASCOM drivers (I do), that's going to be a nice configuration that can run independent of your normal capture software.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 11:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?


No, there's no PinPoint support in NINA at the moment. I might get the eval copy of PinPoint and put in support for it at some point, but my time is so limited now that such a project would need to get in line with all the other things on the to-do list for me.

As for APCC being able to use ASTAP, I can't comment on when that will be available. Only Ray, Karen, or Marj would have any authority on release date or other such expectations.

As for your workflow, all you'll need is APCC Pro+APPM, your camera's ASCOM driver, and a plate solver that's supported directly by APPM, such as PinPoint or TSX (and I think you might need the camera add-on for TSX to use Image Link? I'm not 100% sure on that. All I know is that it works for me(tm) and I do have the camera add-on)

One APCC supports ASTAP, you can have it use the same installation of ASTAP that NINA uses.

As for polar alignment, the RAPAS is a fine tool for that, however if you have a lot of cables going through the mount, you might run into complications with those cables interfering with the view of the RAPAS. This is my case with my Mach1, so I use SharpCap Pro's PA tool and my guide camera or main camera to do polar alignment.

On Apr 12, 2021, at 13:28, ap@captivephotons.com <ap@CaptivePhotons.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

I plan to sell my Paramount when the AP 1100 comes in so TSX will go with it.

Pinpoint is not usable with NINA, right? So I should plan on getting Pinpoint for APPM and keep ASTAP for NINA?

Or do you think there may be different answer by June?

Just trying to get installed and familiar with as much stuff as I can ahead of time.

Is Pinpoint the only non-AP software I'll need to make the AP1100 work? Assuming the polar scope is adequate in itself.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 8:37 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?


Yes, there is currently no direct cooperation between NINA and APPM at this moment, but that can come in the future and I've worked with Ray to get a proof of concept of APPM->NINA working.

One APPM can utilize ASTAP directly as a solver instead of through a surrogate app, things will be much more straight-forward and lightweight. Currently, I do my APPM run during twilight with it utilizing the camera ASCOM driver (QHY in my case) and TSX as the plate solving provider. Once that's done, I shut all that down and then run my standard NINA stack for imaging through the night. While TSX is fine and functionally does the job of solving what APPM throws at it, it's still a bit slow and the ability to use ASTAP would let me uninstall the TSX monster from my imaging mini PC.

On Apr 11, 2021, at 22:04, ap@CaptivePhotons.com wrote:

My hope was to use NINA as a sequencer. Which I doubt is callable for plate solving from APPM.

I hear that ASTAP will be supported, but is not now. I hope to get mine in June, am I going to need Pinpoint, or show ASTAP work by then (I won’t be offended by the standard answer of most software which is “no promises of future dates” but if one has been announced… ).

While I have TSX now I do not plan to use it with the AP1100.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeffc via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 7:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

I use SGP and ASTAP. A 90 point model takes about a half hour

I didn’t think astap was supported in the AP software; or is this coming ASTAP -> SGP -> AP?

I have also been thinking about using SGP and ASTAP.
Fwiw: I have been assuming APPM (?) uses SGP to capture and plate solve, and SGP in turn uses ASTAP to do the plate solve.
... but I'm far from knowledgeable on this, tho I would like to confirm this works or not without burning too many cycles ... But I'll probably just try it sometime soon.

Also fwiw I'm still on the SGP learning curve, along with a new camera. Was using maxim-dl, but I don't have full pinpoint. (And I've been avoiding TSX from a bad experience with it in the past, which is likely resolved.) I am almost 100% open at this point for image acquisition apps as long as they don't break the bank or my brain. e.g. Voyager has been noted in other forums, however it seems to me SGP is more intuitive, and maybe is more supported... and afaik APPM does not work with Voyager.

Point is: there seems to be many variations/options for software these days, which might have varying performance and capability levels. It would be good to know what works well (at this point in time).
I also am realizing "what works well" may depend on the imaging hardware one is using - whether ascom-only or natively supported.
E.g. I'm currently moving to an Ascom-only camera (at least I believe there isn't native QHY driver integration with with Maxim or SGP).
The upside is the new camera seems to have blazing download speed compared to the ST-8300M I was previously using.

thx .. this is a timely thread for me, btw.

-jeff

On Apr 12, 2021, at 13:28, ap@captivephotons.com <ap@CaptivePhotons.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

I plan to sell my Paramount when the AP 1100 comes in so TSX will go with it.

Pinpoint is not usable with NINA, right? So I should plan on getting Pinpoint for APPM and keep ASTAP for NINA?

Or do you think there may be different answer by June?

Just trying to get installed and familiar with as much stuff as I can ahead of time.

Is Pinpoint the only non-AP software I'll need to make the AP1100 work? Assuming the polar scope is adequate in itself.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 8:37 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?


Yes, there is currently no direct cooperation between NINA and APPM at this moment, but that can come in the future and I've worked with Ray to get a proof of concept of APPM->NINA working.

One APPM can utilize ASTAP directly as a solver instead of through a surrogate app, things will be much more straight-forward and lightweight. Currently, I do my APPM run during twilight with it utilizing the camera ASCOM driver (QHY in my case) and TSX as the plate solving provider. Once that's done, I shut all that down and then run my standard NINA stack for imaging through the night. While TSX is fine and functionally does the job of solving what APPM throws at it, it's still a bit slow and the ability to use ASTAP would let me uninstall the TSX monster from my imaging mini PC.

On Apr 11, 2021, at 22:04, ap@CaptivePhotons.com wrote:

My hope was to use NINA as a sequencer. Which I doubt is callable for plate solving from APPM.

I hear that ASTAP will be supported, but is not now. I hope to get mine in June, am I going to need Pinpoint, or show ASTAP work by then (I won’t be offended by the standard answer of most software which is “no promises of future dates” but if one has been announced… ).

While I have TSX now I do not plan to use it with the AP1100.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeffc via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 7:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

I use SGP and ASTAP. A 90 point model takes about a half hour

I didn’t think astap was supported in the AP software; or is this coming ASTAP -> SGP -> AP?

I have also been thinking about using SGP and ASTAP.
Fwiw: I have been assuming APPM (?) uses SGP to capture and plate solve, and SGP in turn uses ASTAP to do the plate solve.
... but I'm far from knowledgeable on this, tho I would like to confirm this works or not without burning too many cycles ... But I'll probably just try it sometime soon.

Also fwiw I'm still on the SGP learning curve, along with a new camera. Was using maxim-dl, but I don't have full pinpoint. (And I've been avoiding TSX from a bad experience with it in the past, which is likely resolved.) I am almost 100% open at this point for image acquisition apps as long as they don't break the bank or my brain. e.g. Voyager has been noted in other forums, however it seems to me SGP is more intuitive, and maybe is more supported... and afaik APPM does not work with Voyager.

Point is: there seems to be many variations/options for software these days, which might have varying performance and capability levels. It would be good to know what works well (at this point in time).
I also am realizing "what works well" may depend on the imaging hardware one is using - whether ascom-only or natively supported.
E.g. I'm currently moving to an Ascom-only camera (at least I believe there isn't native QHY driver integration with with Maxim or SGP).
The upside is the new camera seems to have blazing download speed compared to the ST-8300M I was previously using.

thx .. this is a timely thread for me, btw.

-jeff

I ran a 93 point run last night and it was 1 hour and 2 minutes with a single bad platesolve using SGP and Platesolve 2.  You will have plenty of room for 4 cable with RAPAS installed.

On Apr 12, 2021, at 13:28, ap@captivephotons.com <ap@CaptivePhotons.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

I plan to sell my Paramount when the AP 1100 comes in so TSX will go with it.

Pinpoint is not usable with NINA, right? So I should plan on getting Pinpoint for APPM and keep ASTAP for NINA?

Or do you think there may be different answer by June?

Just trying to get installed and familiar with as much stuff as I can ahead of time.

Is Pinpoint the only non-AP software I'll need to make the AP1100 work? Assuming the polar scope is adequate in itself.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 8:37 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?


Yes, there is currently no direct cooperation between NINA and APPM at this moment, but that can come in the future and I've worked with Ray to get a proof of concept of APPM->NINA working.

One APPM can utilize ASTAP directly as a solver instead of through a surrogate app, things will be much more straight-forward and lightweight. Currently, I do my APPM run during twilight with it utilizing the camera ASCOM driver (QHY in my case) and TSX as the plate solving provider. Once that's done, I shut all that down and then run my standard NINA stack for imaging through the night. While TSX is fine and functionally does the job of solving what APPM throws at it, it's still a bit slow and the ability to use ASTAP would let me uninstall the TSX monster from my imaging mini PC.

On Apr 11, 2021, at 22:04, ap@CaptivePhotons.com wrote:

My hope was to use NINA as a sequencer. Which I doubt is callable for plate solving from APPM.

I hear that ASTAP will be supported, but is not now. I hope to get mine in June, am I going to need Pinpoint, or show ASTAP work by then (I won’t be offended by the standard answer of most software which is “no promises of future dates” but if one has been announced… ).

While I have TSX now I do not plan to use it with the AP1100.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeffc via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 7:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

I use SGP and ASTAP. A 90 point model takes about a half hour

I didn’t think astap was supported in the AP software; or is this coming ASTAP -> SGP -> AP?

I have also been thinking about using SGP and ASTAP.
Fwiw: I have been assuming APPM (?) uses SGP to capture and plate solve, and SGP in turn uses ASTAP to do the plate solve.
... but I'm far from knowledgeable on this, tho I would like to confirm this works or not without burning too many cycles ... But I'll probably just try it sometime soon.

Also fwiw I'm still on the SGP learning curve, along with a new camera. Was using maxim-dl, but I don't have full pinpoint. (And I've been avoiding TSX from a bad experience with it in the past, which is likely resolved.) I am almost 100% open at this point for image acquisition apps as long as they don't break the bank or my brain. e.g. Voyager has been noted in other forums, however it seems to me SGP is more intuitive, and maybe is more supported... and afaik APPM does not work with Voyager.

Point is: there seems to be many variations/options for software these days, which might have varying performance and capability levels. It would be good to know what works well (at this point in time).
I also am realizing "what works well" may depend on the imaging hardware one is using - whether ascom-only or natively supported.
E.g. I'm currently moving to an Ascom-only camera (at least I believe there isn't native QHY driver integration with with Maxim or SGP).
The upside is the new camera seems to have blazing download speed compared to the ST-8300M I was previously using.

thx .. this is a timely thread for me, btw.

-jeff

On Apr 12, 2021, at 13:28, ap@captivephotons.com <ap@CaptivePhotons.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

I plan to sell my Paramount when the AP 1100 comes in so TSX will go with it.

Pinpoint is not usable with NINA, right? So I should plan on getting Pinpoint for APPM and keep ASTAP for NINA?

Or do you think there may be different answer by June?

Just trying to get installed and familiar with as much stuff as I can ahead of time.

Is Pinpoint the only non-AP software I'll need to make the AP1100 work? Assuming the polar scope is adequate in itself.


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 8:37 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?


Yes, there is currently no direct cooperation between NINA and APPM at this moment, but that can come in the future and I've worked with Ray to get a proof of concept of APPM->NINA working.

One APPM can utilize ASTAP directly as a solver instead of through a surrogate app, things will be much more straight-forward and lightweight. Currently, I do my APPM run during twilight with it utilizing the camera ASCOM driver (QHY in my case) and TSX as the plate solving provider. Once that's done, I shut all that down and then run my standard NINA stack for imaging through the night. While TSX is fine and functionally does the job of solving what APPM throws at it, it's still a bit slow and the ability to use ASTAP would let me uninstall the TSX monster from my imaging mini PC.

On Apr 11, 2021, at 22:04, ap@CaptivePhotons.com wrote:

My hope was to use NINA as a sequencer. Which I doubt is callable for plate solving from APPM.

I hear that ASTAP will be supported, but is not now. I hope to get mine in June, am I going to need Pinpoint, or show ASTAP work by then (I won’t be offended by the standard answer of most software which is “no promises of future dates” but if one has been announced… ).

While I have TSX now I do not plan to use it with the AP1100.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeffc via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 7:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

I use SGP and ASTAP. A 90 point model takes about a half hour

I didn’t think astap was supported in the AP software; or is this coming ASTAP -> SGP -> AP?

I have also been thinking about using SGP and ASTAP.
Fwiw: I have been assuming APPM (?) uses SGP to capture and plate solve, and SGP in turn uses ASTAP to do the plate solve.
... but I'm far from knowledgeable on this, tho I would like to confirm this works or not without burning too many cycles ... But I'll probably just try it sometime soon.

Also fwiw I'm still on the SGP learning curve, along with a new camera. Was using maxim-dl, but I don't have full pinpoint. (And I've been avoiding TSX from a bad experience with it in the past, which is likely resolved.) I am almost 100% open at this point for image acquisition apps as long as they don't break the bank or my brain. e.g. Voyager has been noted in other forums, however it seems to me SGP is more intuitive, and maybe is more supported... and afaik APPM does not work with Voyager.

Point is: there seems to be many variations/options for software these days, which might have varying performance and capability levels. It would be good to know what works well (at this point in time).
I also am realizing "what works well" may depend on the imaging hardware one is using - whether ascom-only or natively supported.
E.g. I'm currently moving to an Ascom-only camera (at least I believe there isn't native QHY driver integration with with Maxim or SGP).
The upside is the new camera seems to have blazing download speed compared to the ST-8300M I was previously using.

thx .. this is a timely thread for me, btw.

-jeff

On Apr 11, 2021, at 22:04, ap@CaptivePhotons.com wrote:

My hope was to use NINA as a sequencer. Which I doubt is callable for plate solving from APPM.

I hear that ASTAP will be supported, but is not now. I hope to get mine in June, am I going to need Pinpoint, or show ASTAP work by then (I won’t be offended by the standard answer of most software which is “no promises of future dates” but if one has been announced… ).

While I have TSX now I do not plan to use it with the AP1100.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeffc via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2021 7:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM model how many points portable?

I use SGP and ASTAP. A 90 point model takes about a half hour

I didn’t think astap was supported in the AP software; or is this coming ASTAP -> SGP -> AP?

I have also been thinking about using SGP and ASTAP.
Fwiw: I have been assuming APPM (?) uses SGP to capture and plate solve, and SGP in turn uses ASTAP to do the plate solve.
... but I'm far from knowledgeable on this, tho I would like to confirm this works or not without burning too many cycles ... But I'll probably just try it sometime soon.

Also fwiw I'm still on the SGP learning curve, along with a new camera. Was using maxim-dl, but I don't have full pinpoint. (And I've been avoiding TSX from a bad experience with it in the past, which is likely resolved.) I am almost 100% open at this point for image acquisition apps as long as they don't break the bank or my brain. e.g. Voyager has been noted in other forums, however it seems to me SGP is more intuitive, and maybe is more supported... and afaik APPM does not work with Voyager.

Point is: there seems to be many variations/options for software these days, which might have varying performance and capability levels. It would be good to know what works well (at this point in time).
I also am realizing "what works well" may depend on the imaging hardware one is using - whether ascom-only or natively supported.
E.g. I'm currently moving to an Ascom-only camera (at least I believe there isn't native QHY driver integration with with Maxim or SGP).
The upside is the new camera seems to have blazing download speed compared to the ST-8300M I was previously using.

thx .. this is a timely thread for me, btw.

-jeff

I recently took over as Observatory Director for my club's observatory and outreach center. With COVID putting a halt on the in-person outreach events that we have done on a monthly basis (and hope to return to once conditions allow), I figured now was the time to do heavy maintainence on the mount, scope, and dome.

The observatory's 1200GTO is a fairly early example and, from what we've been able to determine, has not been heavily serviced during its lifetime which is approaching 20 years old. Yep! It probably still had the original grease! Nonetheless, it has been operating fine for the most part, but it has developed some notable backlash in both axes and could use some attention so it can soldier on into the future with better performance.

The servicing tasks to be done:

1. Dismantle the mount and clean its external surfaces 2. Clean and regrease the RA and dec worm, worm wheel, and motor spur gears 3. Replace RA and Dec clutch delrin plugs 4. Polish out rust spots on CW shaft and weights and give them a nice shine (ooh pretty) 5. General inspection of mount

In addition to servicing the mount, I also wanted to install some upgrades into it for improved operation. It already had a CP4, so that only needed a firmware update. The following upgrades were chosen:

1. 1200 R.A. Motor Bracket with Spring-Loaded Action (12SLBR), Qty. 1 2. Replacement for 900/1200 Dovetail Knob (DOVEKREP), Qty. 2 3. Modified R.A. Clutch Set Screw for 1200 Mount, all models (M12668), Qty. 4

(1) was chosen to replace the original RA motor mounting bracket design with a newer version that addresses backlash better. The new bracket keeps the RA worm meshed better with the worm wheel. From what I undertand this improved bracket was standard on later 1200GTO serial numbers. It would appear that I snagged the last of this bracket at A-P, as it is now listed as out of stock and discontinued.

(2) and (3) were chosen to replace the four RA clutch knobs and two Declination axis dovetail knobs, respectively, with set screws. The 1200GTO's design predates the through-mount cabling feature found on current mount models, so any wiring coming off the scope and down the side of the mount can run the risk of snagging on one of these knobs. I've witnessed this briefly happen with ours, with the power and USB coming off the telescope getting picked up and carried briefly by one of these knobs, but the cable would free itself each time. I don't have to watch for this situation with my finger hovering over the STOP! button with these set screw replacements as the dec axis now lacks such protrusions.

Breakdown of the mount went fine save for unscrewing 1 of 5 screws that fastened the RA motor to the RA motor bracket. Despite all efforts and even a few tries with a #1 and then #2 screw extractor, the screw just would not turn. I decided that the folks at Astro-Pysics would be the best people to deal with this, so I detached the bracket from the mount body and sent the bracket+motor combination to them. Dave and their machinist went to work on it and eventually freed the screw. Upon its return, the RA motor was cleaned, greased up, and mounted on the upgraded bracket with no further issues.

Cleaning the gearing and regreasing using the Astro-Physics grease kit was easy and familiar to me, having done the same with my own Mach1 prior to this. I use flat toothpicks to gently press paper towel into the worm wheel and gear teeth which allows me gently scrape out the gummy black old grease. Cleaning the external surface of the mount was done with microfiber cloths, first with a diluted solution of citrus degreaser to get areas caked-on oil/dirt off of, then a final wipe-down with isopropyl alcohol. A little bit of elbow work got dirt and grime out of the setting circle engravings, returning the numbering and marks to their original white. We don't use them, but it makes the mount look nicer.

Replacing the delrin clutch plugs was a quick and easy. My method for extracting the old ones was to remove the clutch knob and gently tap a #1 screw extractor into the center hole of the old delrin plug, attach a tap wrench, and unscrew it out. The new delrin plugs dropped right back in to the hole.

When all the service and upgrade items were done, the mount was reassembled and the (also cleaned) TOA-150B went back on top of it. The smooth action of the unclutched axes during balancing was great, a clear difference from the sticky balky motion caused by the old delrin clutch plugs that would not fully disengage. With everything balanced and locked in, it was really nice to be greeted with a soft hum of the motors with no backlash. I now await a clear night to re-do the polar alignment using SharpCap Pro. Eventually, I want to get the club to spring for APPC Pro so we can run this with pointing and tracking models.

Throughout this project, I talked quite a bit with George, Dave, and Daleen at Astro-Physics. I can't stress how awesome they are to work with, not just on a person-to-person basis but certainly with Astro-Physics as a company. It's a rare level of service in this hobby/industry these days where things can seem kind of impersonal and faceless, and I shudder to think about what I would have to go through to get a similar level of attention with vendors of cheaper mounts, or if it would even be possible in that reality. I really want to thank them and it's why I've never hesitated in recommening their products.

I have a chronologically-ordered gallery of images from this maintenance. There's a lot of photos, so you may need to click the "Load 22 more images" button once you scroll to the bottom:

https://imgur.com/a/iDp4Qor

/dale

On Apr 12, 2021, at 12:29, sroberts84 <ap-gto-group-io@outlook.com> wrote:

Nice write up, Dale..,
Is this the extractor you referred to that eventually worked well?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-No-1-Spiral-Screw-Extractor-A96SE61/205469313

RYOBI No.1 Spiral Screw Extractor-A96SE61 - The Home Depot
RYOBI introduces the No.1 Spiral Screw Extractor. The RYOBI No. 1 Steel Spiral Screw Extractor features steel construction and black oxide thread for lasting performance. Use this extractor to remove screws and bolts from 1/8 in. - 1/4 in. for your convenience.
www.homedepot.com
Thanks..,
S Roberts
---
We've got fifteen minutes, Freddo, it's worse than I thought!

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Dale Ghent <daleg@elemental.org>
Sent: 12 April 2021 09:10
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1200GTO servicing project notes


No drilling. Just a few light taps on the extractor using a finishing nail hammer to seat the extractor bit tip into the plug's center hole, and some initial moderate downward force on the tap wrench during the first few turns to make sure it fully bit into the plug. Not hard at all.

I will note that design of the extractor bit did seem to matter. I have two #1's, one from a "Warrior" set from Harbor Freight, and another from Home Depot/Ryobi. The Ryobi bit seemed to dig in and get a bite more reliably than the Harbor Freight one. I used a Starrett 91A tap wrench.

/dale

On Apr 12, 2021, at 12:04, George <george@astro-physics.com> wrote:

Dale,

So you found that the #1 extractor worked well? Did you have to do anything other than use the extractor, itself...no drilling?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-222-6538 (direct line)
Phone: 815-282-1513 (office)
Email: george@astro-physics.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 10:58 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] 1200GTO servicing project notes

I recently took over as Observatory Director for my club's observatory and outreach center. With COVID putting a halt on the in-person outreach events that we have done on a monthly basis (and hope to return to once conditions allow), I figured now was the time to do heavy maintainence on the mount, scope, and dome.

The observatory's 1200GTO is a fairly early example and, from what we've been able to determine, has not been heavily serviced during its lifetime which is approaching 20 years old. Yep! It probably still had the original grease! Nonetheless, it has been operating fine for the most part, but it has developed some notable backlash in both axes and could use some attention so it can soldier on into the future with better performance.

The servicing tasks to be done:

1. Dismantle the mount and clean its external surfaces 2. Clean and regrease the RA and dec worm, worm wheel, and motor spur gears 3. Replace RA and Dec clutch delrin plugs 4. Polish out rust spots on CW shaft and weights and give them a nice shine (ooh pretty) 5. General inspection of mount

In addition to servicing the mount, I also wanted to install some upgrades into it for improved operation. It already had a CP4, so that only needed a firmware update. The following upgrades were chosen:

1. 1200 R.A. Motor Bracket with Spring-Loaded Action (12SLBR), Qty. 1 2. Replacement for 900/1200 Dovetail Knob (DOVEKREP), Qty. 2 3. Modified R.A. Clutch Set Screw for 1200 Mount, all models (M12668), Qty. 4

(1) was chosen to replace the original RA motor mounting bracket design with a newer version that addresses backlash better. The new bracket keeps the RA worm meshed better with the worm wheel. From what I undertand this improved bracket was standard on later 1200GTO serial numbers. It would appear that I snagged the last of this bracket at A-P, as it is now listed as out of stock and discontinued.

(2) and (3) were chosen to replace the four RA clutch knobs and two Declination axis dovetail knobs, respectively, with set screws. The 1200GTO's design predates the through-mount cabling feature found on current mount models, so any wiring coming off the scope and down the side of the mount can run the risk of snagging on one of these knobs. I've witnessed this briefly happen with ours, with the power and USB coming off the telescope getting picked up and carried briefly by one of these knobs, but the cable would free itself each time. I don't have to watch for this situation with my finger hovering over the STOP! button with these set screw replacements as the dec axis now lacks such protrusions.

Breakdown of the mount went fine save for unscrewing 1 of 5 screws that fastened the RA motor to the RA motor bracket. Despite all efforts and even a few tries with a #1 and then #2 screw extractor, the screw just would not turn. I decided that the folks at Astro-Pysics would be the best people to deal with this, so I detached the bracket from the mount body and sent the bracket+motor combination to them. Dave and their machinist went to work on it and eventually freed the screw. Upon its return, the RA motor was cleaned, greased up, and mounted on the upgraded bracket with no further issues.

Cleaning the gearing and regreasing using the Astro-Physics grease kit was easy and familiar to me, having done the same with my own Mach1 prior to this. I use flat toothpicks to gently press paper towel into the worm wheel and gear teeth which allows me gently scrape out the gummy black old grease. Cleaning the external surface of the mount was done with microfiber cloths, first with a diluted solution of citrus degreaser to get areas caked-on oil/dirt off of, then a final wipe-down with isopropyl alcohol. A little bit of elbow work got dirt and grime out of the setting circle engravings, returning the numbering and marks to their original white. We don't use them, but it makes the mount look nicer.

Replacing the delrin clutch plugs was a quick and easy. My method for extracting the old ones was to remove the clutch knob and gently tap a #1 screw extractor into the center hole of the old delrin plug, attach a tap wrench, and unscrew it out. The new delrin plugs dropped right back in to the hole.

When all the service and upgrade items were done, the mount was reassembled and the (also cleaned) TOA-150B went back on top of it. The smooth action of the unclutched axes during balancing was great, a clear difference from the sticky balky motion caused by the old delrin clutch plugs that would not fully disengage. With everything balanced and locked in, it was really nice to be greeted with a soft hum of the motors with no backlash. I now await a clear night to re-do the polar alignment using SharpCap Pro. Eventually, I want to get the club to spring for APPC Pro so we can run this with pointing and tracking models.

Throughout this project, I talked quite a bit with George, Dave, and Daleen at Astro-Physics. I can't stress how awesome they are to work with, not just on a person-to-person basis but certainly with Astro-Physics as a company. It's a rare level of service in this hobby/industry these days where things can seem kind of impersonal and faceless, and I shudder to think about what I would have to go through to get a similar level of attention with vendors of cheaper mounts, or if it would even be possible in that reality. I really want to thank them and it's why I've never hesitated in recommening their products.

I have a chronologically-ordered gallery of images from this maintenance. There's a lot of photos, so you may need to click the "Load 22 more images" button once you scroll to the bottom:

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fa%2FiDp4Qor&;data=04%7C01%7C%7C8db9fa17e35747a6776308d8fdcd91df%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637538406636189309%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=EmbWgTXbB0DlgOvgZuCFi%2BmwURQMgPqifP0oikAGmxo%3D&amp;reserved=0

/dale

On Apr 12, 2021, at 12:04, George <george@astro-physics.com> wrote:

Dale,

So you found that the #1 extractor worked well? Did you have to do anything other than use the extractor, itself...no drilling?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-222-6538 (direct line)
Phone: 815-282-1513 (office)
Email: george@astro-physics.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 10:58 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] 1200GTO servicing project notes

I recently took over as Observatory Director for my club's observatory and outreach center. With COVID putting a halt on the in-person outreach events that we have done on a monthly basis (and hope to return to once conditions allow), I figured now was the time to do heavy maintainence on the mount, scope, and dome.

The observatory's 1200GTO is a fairly early example and, from what we've been able to determine, has not been heavily serviced during its lifetime which is approaching 20 years old. Yep! It probably still had the original grease! Nonetheless, it has been operating fine for the most part, but it has developed some notable backlash in both axes and could use some attention so it can soldier on into the future with better performance.

The servicing tasks to be done:

1. Dismantle the mount and clean its external surfaces 2. Clean and regrease the RA and dec worm, worm wheel, and motor spur gears 3. Replace RA and Dec clutch delrin plugs 4. Polish out rust spots on CW shaft and weights and give them a nice shine (ooh pretty) 5. General inspection of mount

In addition to servicing the mount, I also wanted to install some upgrades into it for improved operation. It already had a CP4, so that only needed a firmware update. The following upgrades were chosen:

1. 1200 R.A. Motor Bracket with Spring-Loaded Action (12SLBR), Qty. 1 2. Replacement for 900/1200 Dovetail Knob (DOVEKREP), Qty. 2 3. Modified R.A. Clutch Set Screw for 1200 Mount, all models (M12668), Qty. 4

(1) was chosen to replace the original RA motor mounting bracket design with a newer version that addresses backlash better. The new bracket keeps the RA worm meshed better with the worm wheel. From what I undertand this improved bracket was standard on later 1200GTO serial numbers. It would appear that I snagged the last of this bracket at A-P, as it is now listed as out of stock and discontinued.

(2) and (3) were chosen to replace the four RA clutch knobs and two Declination axis dovetail knobs, respectively, with set screws. The 1200GTO's design predates the through-mount cabling feature found on current mount models, so any wiring coming off the scope and down the side of the mount can run the risk of snagging on one of these knobs. I've witnessed this briefly happen with ours, with the power and USB coming off the telescope getting picked up and carried briefly by one of these knobs, but the cable would free itself each time. I don't have to watch for this situation with my finger hovering over the STOP! button with these set screw replacements as the dec axis now lacks such protrusions.

Breakdown of the mount went fine save for unscrewing 1 of 5 screws that fastened the RA motor to the RA motor bracket. Despite all efforts and even a few tries with a #1 and then #2 screw extractor, the screw just would not turn. I decided that the folks at Astro-Pysics would be the best people to deal with this, so I detached the bracket from the mount body and sent the bracket+motor combination to them. Dave and their machinist went to work on it and eventually freed the screw. Upon its return, the RA motor was cleaned, greased up, and mounted on the upgraded bracket with no further issues.

Cleaning the gearing and regreasing using the Astro-Physics grease kit was easy and familiar to me, having done the same with my own Mach1 prior to this. I use flat toothpicks to gently press paper towel into the worm wheel and gear teeth which allows me gently scrape out the gummy black old grease. Cleaning the external surface of the mount was done with microfiber cloths, first with a diluted solution of citrus degreaser to get areas caked-on oil/dirt off of, then a final wipe-down with isopropyl alcohol. A little bit of elbow work got dirt and grime out of the setting circle engravings, returning the numbering and marks to their original white. We don't use them, but it makes the mount look nicer.

Replacing the delrin clutch plugs was a quick and easy. My method for extracting the old ones was to remove the clutch knob and gently tap a #1 screw extractor into the center hole of the old delrin plug, attach a tap wrench, and unscrew it out. The new delrin plugs dropped right back in to the hole.

When all the service and upgrade items were done, the mount was reassembled and the (also cleaned) TOA-150B went back on top of it. The smooth action of the unclutched axes during balancing was great, a clear difference from the sticky balky motion caused by the old delrin clutch plugs that would not fully disengage. With everything balanced and locked in, it was really nice to be greeted with a soft hum of the motors with no backlash. I now await a clear night to re-do the polar alignment using SharpCap Pro. Eventually, I want to get the club to spring for APPC Pro so we can run this with pointing and tracking models.

Throughout this project, I talked quite a bit with George, Dave, and Daleen at Astro-Physics. I can't stress how awesome they are to work with, not just on a person-to-person basis but certainly with Astro-Physics as a company. It's a rare level of service in this hobby/industry these days where things can seem kind of impersonal and faceless, and I shudder to think about what I would have to go through to get a similar level of attention with vendors of cheaper mounts, or if it would even be possible in that reality. I really want to thank them and it's why I've never hesitated in recommening their products.

I have a chronologically-ordered gallery of images from this maintenance. There's a lot of photos, so you may need to click the "Load 22 more images" button once you scroll to the bottom:

https://imgur.com/a/iDp4Qor

/dale

On Apr 12, 2021, at 12:04, George <george@astro-physics.com> wrote:

Dale,

So you found that the #1 extractor worked well? Did you have to do anything other than use the extractor, itself...no drilling?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-222-6538 (direct line)
Phone: 815-282-1513 (office)
Email: george@astro-physics.com

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2021 10:58 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] 1200GTO servicing project notes

I recently took over as Observatory Director for my club's observatory and outreach center. With COVID putting a halt on the in-person outreach events that we have done on a monthly basis (and hope to return to once conditions allow), I figured now was the time to do heavy maintainence on the mount, scope, and dome.

The observatory's 1200GTO is a fairly early example and, from what we've been able to determine, has not been heavily serviced during its lifetime which is approaching 20 years old. Yep! It probably still had the original grease! Nonetheless, it has been operating fine for the most part, but it has developed some notable backlash in both axes and could use some attention so it can soldier on into the future with better performance.

The servicing tasks to be done:

1. Dismantle the mount and clean its external surfaces 2. Clean and regrease the RA and dec worm, worm wheel, and motor spur gears 3. Replace RA and Dec clutch delrin plugs 4. Polish out rust spots on CW shaft and weights and give them a nice shine (ooh pretty) 5. General inspection of mount

In addition to servicing the mount, I also wanted to install some upgrades into it for improved operation. It already had a CP4, so that only needed a firmware update. The following upgrades were chosen:

1. 1200 R.A. Motor Bracket with Spring-Loaded Action (12SLBR), Qty. 1 2. Replacement for 900/1200 Dovetail Knob (DOVEKREP), Qty. 2 3. Modified R.A. Clutch Set Screw for 1200 Mount, all models (M12668), Qty. 4

(1) was chosen to replace the original RA motor mounting bracket design with a newer version that addresses backlash better. The new bracket keeps the RA worm meshed better with the worm wheel. From what I undertand this improved bracket was standard on later 1200GTO serial numbers. It would appear that I snagged the last of this bracket at A-P, as it is now listed as out of stock and discontinued.

(2) and (3) were chosen to replace the four RA clutch knobs and two Declination axis dovetail knobs, respectively, with set screws. The 1200GTO's design predates the through-mount cabling feature found on current mount models, so any wiring coming off the scope and down the side of the mount can run the risk of snagging on one of these knobs. I've witnessed this briefly happen with ours, with the power and USB coming off the telescope getting picked up and carried briefly by one of these knobs, but the cable would free itself each time. I don't have to watch for this situation with my finger hovering over the STOP! button with these set screw replacements as the dec axis now lacks such protrusions.

Breakdown of the mount went fine save for unscrewing 1 of 5 screws that fastened the RA motor to the RA motor bracket. Despite all efforts and even a few tries with a #1 and then #2 screw extractor, the screw just would not turn. I decided that the folks at Astro-Pysics would be the best people to deal with this, so I detached the bracket from the mount body and sent the bracket+motor combination to them. Dave and their machinist went to work on it and eventually freed the screw. Upon its return, the RA motor was cleaned, greased up, and mounted on the upgraded bracket with no further issues.

Cleaning the gearing and regreasing using the Astro-Physics grease kit was easy and familiar to me, having done the same with my own Mach1 prior to this. I use flat toothpicks to gently press paper towel into the worm wheel and gear teeth which allows me gently scrape out the gummy black old grease. Cleaning the external surface of the mount was done with microfiber cloths, first with a diluted solution of citrus degreaser to get areas caked-on oil/dirt off of, then a final wipe-down with isopropyl alcohol. A little bit of elbow work got dirt and grime out of the setting circle engravings, returning the numbering and marks to their original white. We don't use them, but it makes the mount look nicer.

Replacing the delrin clutch plugs was a quick and easy. My method for extracting the old ones was to remove the clutch knob and gently tap a #1 screw extractor into the center hole of the old delrin plug, attach a tap wrench, and unscrew it out. The new delrin plugs dropped right back in to the hole.

When all the service and upgrade items were done, the mount was reassembled and the (also cleaned) TOA-150B went back on top of it. The smooth action of the unclutched axes during balancing was great, a clear difference from the sticky balky motion caused by the old delrin clutch plugs that would not fully disengage. With everything balanced and locked in, it was really nice to be greeted with a soft hum of the motors with no backlash. I now await a clear night to re-do the polar alignment using SharpCap Pro. Eventually, I want to get the club to spring for APPC Pro so we can run this with pointing and tracking models.

Throughout this project, I talked quite a bit with George, Dave, and Daleen at Astro-Physics. I can't stress how awesome they are to work with, not just on a person-to-person basis but certainly with Astro-Physics as a company. It's a rare level of service in this hobby/industry these days where things can seem kind of impersonal and faceless, and I shudder to think about what I would have to go through to get a similar level of attention with vendors of cheaper mounts, or if it would even be possible in that reality. I really want to thank them and it's why I've never hesitated in recommening their products.

I have a chronologically-ordered gallery of images from this maintenance. There's a lot of photos, so you may need to click the "Load 22 more images" button once you scroll to the bottom:

https://imgur.com/a/iDp4Qor

/dale