Date   

Re: Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

The DC connector on the CP5 is a round 2 pin Hirose connector. You received a power supply cord with Hirose connector on one end and power poles on the other. The 24 volt AC-DC supply that came with the mount plugs right into that power cable, and yes it does so using the Anderson power poles. However, the Anderson power poles DO NOT connect to the CP5.

Please do not use that power supply to power anything else while plugged into the Mach2 CP5 controller. It is 24 volts and can fry your other electronic devices.

We supplied you with the power cord that has one end with Anderson power pole connectors so that you have the option of using your CP5 with other power supplies including batteries in the field where the AC-DC power supply would not be useful. You can use any 12 to 24 volt DC battery supply to operate your mount in the field. We did these connectors that way so that you have flexibility.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerome Allison <jallison@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, but humbly I have no idea what a Hirose connector is, and can't find them.  The connector on my 24V supply that came with the Mach2 seems to be a standard red/black Anderson PowerPole.  I think maybe the GTOCP5 uses a Hirose connector, and the included power cable transistions to Anderson?

I actually got a "Daygreen" 12 to 24 VDC converter long before for the mount.  I followed their color code, using red/black powerpole connectors for 12VDC in and yellow/black for 24VDC out so I wouldn't confuse voltages.  (I also use gray/orange to code my solar connections.)  I haven't tested it yet, and don't know if there's really any reason for using it when I'm away from line power and am on batteries. 

What are your thoughts on a 12 to 24 DC-DC converter for the mount?  Probably minimal benefits along with voltage conversion power loss, and thus no real gain?

Jerome


Re: Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions, but humbly I have no idea what a Hirose connector is, and can't find them.  The connector on my 24V supply that came with the Mach2 seems to be a standard red/black Anderson PowerPole.  I think maybe the GTOCP5 uses a Hirose connector, and the included power cable transistions to Anderson?

I actually got a "Daygreen" 12 to 24 VDC converter long before for the mount.  I followed their color code, using red/black powerpole connectors for 12VDC in and yellow/black for 24VDC out so I wouldn't confuse voltages.  (I also use gray/orange to code my solar connections.)  I haven't tested it yet, and don't know if there's really any reason for using it when I'm away from line power and am on batteries. 

What are your thoughts on a 12 to 24 DC-DC converter for the mount?  Probably minimal benefits along with voltage conversion power loss, and thus no real gain?

Jerome


Re: Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

Best not to cut the 12 or 24 volt cords because DC at that power level loses voltage for every meter of length added. Best to use an extension cord on the AC side where you can go 100 meters without losing a millivolt of voltage at the DC output.
Betcha most people didn't know that ;^))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 5:22 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

My concern is if people cut their power cords to extend them over greater distances to just make sure they don't set themselves up for future problems.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


Re: Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Christopher Erickson
 

My concern is if people cut their power cords to extend them over greater distances to just make sure they don't set themselves up for future problems.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


Re: Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


Re: Mach1 problem please assist

Roland Christen
 


The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland
Woops,

replied to wrong post.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I have seen it before where bad PEC data causes all kinds of guiding grief. The manual PEC training function in the hand controller, combined with a transient user was the culprit.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
GREAT NEWS ROLAND.  I'll do some PEC options next time.  Bumbed I didnt remember last night but I was running two rigs and imaging on both  = (
2-3 nights I might get some stars. (but amazed we just had 6 clear nights in a row). 
I'll report back with PE tests


On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:23 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Yes, that shows exactly what Andrew discovered when he analyzed your logs. The good news is that it is NOT a mechanical problem. Your geartrain is fine. It is almost certainly a rogue move command coming from either the PE memory, or from some other outside software.

Disconnect all outside software and just let the mount run with PEM turned OFF. Initialize the mount as you normally do, but then yank the connection between your computer and the mount controller (after acquiring a guide star of course). The mount will continue to track at the sidereal rate even with everything disconnected. Let PHD2 simply monitor the motion of a guide star for a period of time. If the same motion persists with no outside software connected, then it is coming from inside the CP controller (either PEM rogue data or a software malfunction). We can easily check the controller here, no need to send the mount in.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

SHOOT I did some tests last night and tried lots of things but forgot to try  PEC  off.   I'll try next clear night.  DANG IT. 

I did turn off guiding though for a bit in the middle here.  So look at PE on this capture, Is this ANY CLUE? 


NOGUIDE.JPG



On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:28 AM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Andrew Johansen analyzed your logs and it appears that the problem is not caused by any worm issue or other mechanical defect. It appears that the mount receives a 10 arc second move command and then PHD2 immediately corrects it to bring it back to the zero line. Thus it appears as a spike instead of a continuous move command in one direction. It would have been easy to see the actual motion if the guide pulses had been disabled, and then we would not have been chasing the mechanical red herring down the blind alley.

So, no need at this point to send your mount back here.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I'll check PE. But after cleaning I did a  "record" and it finished so I suspect it recorded a clean PE. 

I REALLY hate sending in the whole thing.  But would be nice to get it all tweaked. (PHD reports a good amount of backlash (not sure if its true)  It always has since new. The backlash graph is always off a good amount. I just ignore it. 


On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

By the way, is it possible that you have PE correction turned on and you are playing back some bad data? We had this happen once on a mount at the Mauna Kea visitor center. Someone had manually entered a huge correction curve into the PE memory and was playing it back. Caused the mount to jump every worm cycle.

If this is not the case, then the mount needs to be sent in for evaluation. I can look at it the moment it arrives. Also send the cables and CP controller too, in case something is weird there.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

Next night - I'll do a 2-3-4 worm cycle unguided.  I also may have one in a older log. I'll work on that. 
LAST NIGHTS. 

image.png

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 9:22 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
One other thing that would be extremely helpful is if you ran the mount for about 2 worm cycles (about 15 minutes) with guiding effectively off so i can see what the worm is actually doing. Posting a guided graph hides a lot of stuff that makes it hard to do actual trouble shooting.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 5:57 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I'll post then then try groups interface.
I logged out my best guess on each incursion.  There are no seconds so I had to estimate.
This would be the later set of errors that kicked UPWARD

about  12:38.55 sec
about  12:45.20 sec
about  12:51.50 sec
about  12:58.10
about  01:04.40
about  01:11.05
about  01:17.25
about  01:23.50 sec
about  01:30.15 sec

looks like they're spaced 6 min  20 seconds about.   That's about a worm repeat? 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:50 PM Liam Plybon <liam@...> wrote:
Ron,
 
I believe you may have better luck by using an image hosting server and posting a link.
 
Groups is set to compress images automatically after complaints by users with slow or expensive internet who would have to download large images each time one was sent on the group. Especially here, where we all love sharing massive astro-images that can gobble up bandwidth.
 
Liam
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 17:40
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
 
Yep - one continuous run. Not near the meridian.  I'm attaching pics in email. It asks original, best fit etc.  Upon appearing it's a small little blurry version.
would it make them more clear if I enter the post in the groups interface and not in email?   These are BIG ANC CLEAR AND SHARP when I attach them.

I
shape.JPG
dental in shape when zooming in.
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 5:11 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The graph shows 7 RA motions in the down direction, then a number of RA moves in the opposite direction. Is this over a period of time continuously? In other words, was this graph taken without interruption?
 
Roland
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
Capture is CLEAR and sharp. not sure what "GROUPS" does to images. I hate GROUPS.  Forums are better and allow you to retain/library of topics and Q&A, = (
I'll attach it again.  Is there a limit? size? restriction?    I'll attach at ORIGINAL SIZE

RA KICK.JPG
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 4:37 PM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
I don't own use a keypad.   I did try that SWAP OVER - but I then cleaned it and not sure where it ended up.  Since the last test clearly had the saime  KICKS. I can do ig again.  
What does that do?  I think it might track toward the other side of the groove?  I'll swap it over again and see if it helps since re-greasing.

NICELY - greasing lowered my RA RMA error almost 50%.  Here is my history.

Mount arrived. I guided around 1.0.  Always trying to tweak it - not sure why but months later I was guiding at  .24 RMS error (arc set). yeah - that's awesome.
MANY months of that... The RASA guided better than my long APO.  But late winter I swapped RASA V1 for a RASA V2 (heavier) and ever since my guiding was 1.5 average.  My image scale is 1.69 
lately - the RA kicks put me into  1.7-2.0.  I get double stars on every other sub. 
I re-greased the RA and last night afterwards I was 1.1max and usuall around .89 tot rms arc sec. (nice)  But the RA still kicks and makes for double stars.  My dec was still poor so I'll regrease dec next and check
my alignment. (it's fairly perminent in a dome, but I have a tripod leg/mount and it "can move".  I usually check alignment 1-2 times a year or when ever guiding quality decreases. 
I am not aware of any gear scraping - I always release it clean...  I have on 3-4 occasions allowed it to track into a leg and (stop). Not sure if that hurts anything. But seems to work fine next time.

I don't understand why the RA kick changed from lower to higher (E to W?) the mount orientation did not change. 
I'll swap the part positions over and try again tonight.  During regreasing/cleaning I saw nothing strange. No chunks or crud.  old Grease moved quickly,  freely. not at all gummy. 
I have some pics n video.
 
 
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 3:39 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Ron,
 
Howard won't be able to answer you at this time.
 
Can you do a test for me?
 
With keypad in Autostart NO, send the mount to Park1 and turn off power.
Loosen the clutches and move the mount to Park5 manually.
Turn power back on and press "Resume from Park5"
 
Now check to see if the RA anomaly persists. let me know the results and we can go from there.
 
By the way, your screen shot is so blurry I cannot make out any details on it.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
I re-greased the RA.  It was really relaxing and nothing to fear.  No springs jumped out at me or other crazy surprises. 
The first test last night showed my RA improved by almost 50% reduction in RA RMS error.  (I'm shocked).

On the bad side, I did not fix my RA KICK problem.  I did not see RA worm flaws except on the very end (3 turns) of the worm and I'm sure that is never in contact with the drive gear.
I have emailed Howard... but wondered if it helps determine the problem from last night's guide log.  I was surprised to see it FLIPPED the RA kick.  (no meridian flip took place) why would it flip? 

RA KICK.JPG
 
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:21 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit arrived late last night. (UPS error)
Today it was hot in the dome so I just did the RA worm and drive gear. And the side gears)
I hope to test tonight and see if it solves my RA kicking problem. 

I inspected the worm and was in fine shape - EXCEPT I had some very rough area which I don't think matters. It was way over on the very edges of the worm... like the last 2-3 turns were rough. I don't believe this are ever used? 

I greased the entire worm even though it said just the center is all that's needed. Figured it would help ward off corrosion.   The process wasn't scary once the RA box was removed. In fact (I don't recommend this) but I didn't even take my gear off the mount.  RASA 11 + essentials upside down at times.   I forgot about the cords but never turned more than 180.  I actually read the instructions after I was done. (common for me, I like to dig in) then see what I did wrong. 

SOUNDS nice... Will see if the RA hiccups tonight in a guiding test.  if all is good I'll do DEC tomorrow but RA was a primary concern as it would jump and killed every other sub.

Will see tonight.

 
 
 
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 4:33 PM Marj Christen <marj@...> wrote:
Ron,
 
Now that our production staff has returned, the turnaround time for repairs is pretty quick. There is no standard cost for a “ tune up” since it depends on what is involved and if parts have to be replaced.
 
Try regreasing first and contact us again if you can’t resolve the issue.
 
Clear Skies,
 
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics, Inc
11250 Forest Hills Rd
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:33 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
 
I'm about to try to re-grease - I'll see if I can see something during inspection.  Is swapping the worm something easy I can do at home? 
I don't want to do anything complicated. I don't believe I've nicked a gear - I only use park3.  But it has come against the pier during a few 3-4 occasions? Would that do anything?

How much does it cost to send it in for a tune up?  HOW LONG would I be without it?  I'm near in Grand Rapids, MI.
I'll look for a clump of anything in the worm teeth.  If I send it in I don 't want it waiting for weeks/days. What is time frame? 
I ordered the grease, I'll see how that goes.
 
 
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Forget backlash in RA. There is no such thing. RA always tracks so it never reverses. Backlash does not enter into tracking.
 
You may have damaged your worm teeth when you backed off the worm to do a fine balance. You may have forgotten to do it only in the Park3 position. If that's the case, the worm may have a nick in the teeth and it will show up as a repeating pattern once every 6.4 minutes.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 3:30 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
My mach1 is about 2.5 years old.  I was getting awesome guiding with a total rms error of .24 arc sec.  
Winter came and went and this spring it's been horrible.  like  1.4.   My image scale is about 1.69 so I lived with that for a while, but lately
the RA is  KICKING in almost a timely fashion.  One of these kicks makes double stars.  Around 1/2 my subs have to be deleted.
Nothing I have tried to far has fixed it.
I will include the log from a couple nights ago to show what I mean. 
I did a new calibration - then a guide assistant for a while... then set recommendations and let it guide a while.
You'll see   RA  kicking like a mule in a rather evenly timed fashion!?!  
I would so appreciate help with this.  Someone in PHD said make sure the mount software/HC doesn't have backlash on.  
I DO NOT USE or own a HC and I don't know of any BackLash setting in APCC pro.  I'm going nuts. 
 
 

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--


--


--


--


--


--


Re: Mach1 problem please assist

Roland Christen
 

The Mach2 power supply does not use Anderson power poles. It uses Hirose connectors. This 24 volt supply should never be used to power anything else, no matter how tempting. It is ONLY to be used to power the Mach2, nothing else.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I have seen it before where bad PEC data causes all kinds of guiding grief. The manual PEC training function in the hand controller, combined with a transient user was the culprit.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
GREAT NEWS ROLAND.  I'll do some PEC options next time.  Bumbed I didnt remember last night but I was running two rigs and imaging on both  = (
2-3 nights I might get some stars. (but amazed we just had 6 clear nights in a row). 
I'll report back with PE tests


On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:23 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Yes, that shows exactly what Andrew discovered when he analyzed your logs. The good news is that it is NOT a mechanical problem. Your geartrain is fine. It is almost certainly a rogue move command coming from either the PE memory, or from some other outside software.

Disconnect all outside software and just let the mount run with PEM turned OFF. Initialize the mount as you normally do, but then yank the connection between your computer and the mount controller (after acquiring a guide star of course). The mount will continue to track at the sidereal rate even with everything disconnected. Let PHD2 simply monitor the motion of a guide star for a period of time. If the same motion persists with no outside software connected, then it is coming from inside the CP controller (either PEM rogue data or a software malfunction). We can easily check the controller here, no need to send the mount in.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

SHOOT I did some tests last night and tried lots of things but forgot to try  PEC  off.   I'll try next clear night.  DANG IT. 

I did turn off guiding though for a bit in the middle here.  So look at PE on this capture, Is this ANY CLUE? 


NOGUIDE.JPG



On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:28 AM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Andrew Johansen analyzed your logs and it appears that the problem is not caused by any worm issue or other mechanical defect. It appears that the mount receives a 10 arc second move command and then PHD2 immediately corrects it to bring it back to the zero line. Thus it appears as a spike instead of a continuous move command in one direction. It would have been easy to see the actual motion if the guide pulses had been disabled, and then we would not have been chasing the mechanical red herring down the blind alley.

So, no need at this point to send your mount back here.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I'll check PE. But after cleaning I did a  "record" and it finished so I suspect it recorded a clean PE. 

I REALLY hate sending in the whole thing.  But would be nice to get it all tweaked. (PHD reports a good amount of backlash (not sure if its true)  It always has since new. The backlash graph is always off a good amount. I just ignore it. 


On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

By the way, is it possible that you have PE correction turned on and you are playing back some bad data? We had this happen once on a mount at the Mauna Kea visitor center. Someone had manually entered a huge correction curve into the PE memory and was playing it back. Caused the mount to jump every worm cycle.

If this is not the case, then the mount needs to be sent in for evaluation. I can look at it the moment it arrives. Also send the cables and CP controller too, in case something is weird there.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

Next night - I'll do a 2-3-4 worm cycle unguided.  I also may have one in a older log. I'll work on that. 
LAST NIGHTS. 

image.png

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 9:22 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
One other thing that would be extremely helpful is if you ran the mount for about 2 worm cycles (about 15 minutes) with guiding effectively off so i can see what the worm is actually doing. Posting a guided graph hides a lot of stuff that makes it hard to do actual trouble shooting.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 5:57 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I'll post then then try groups interface.
I logged out my best guess on each incursion.  There are no seconds so I had to estimate.
This would be the later set of errors that kicked UPWARD

about  12:38.55 sec
about  12:45.20 sec
about  12:51.50 sec
about  12:58.10
about  01:04.40
about  01:11.05
about  01:17.25
about  01:23.50 sec
about  01:30.15 sec

looks like they're spaced 6 min  20 seconds about.   That's about a worm repeat? 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:50 PM Liam Plybon <liam@...> wrote:
Ron,
 
I believe you may have better luck by using an image hosting server and posting a link.
 
Groups is set to compress images automatically after complaints by users with slow or expensive internet who would have to download large images each time one was sent on the group. Especially here, where we all love sharing massive astro-images that can gobble up bandwidth.
 
Liam
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 17:40
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
 
Yep - one continuous run. Not near the meridian.  I'm attaching pics in email. It asks original, best fit etc.  Upon appearing it's a small little blurry version.
would it make them more clear if I enter the post in the groups interface and not in email?   These are BIG ANC CLEAR AND SHARP when I attach them.

I
shape.JPG
dental in shape when zooming in.
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 5:11 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The graph shows 7 RA motions in the down direction, then a number of RA moves in the opposite direction. Is this over a period of time continuously? In other words, was this graph taken without interruption?
 
Roland
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
Capture is CLEAR and sharp. not sure what "GROUPS" does to images. I hate GROUPS.  Forums are better and allow you to retain/library of topics and Q&A, = (
I'll attach it again.  Is there a limit? size? restriction?    I'll attach at ORIGINAL SIZE

RA KICK.JPG
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 4:37 PM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
I don't own use a keypad.   I did try that SWAP OVER - but I then cleaned it and not sure where it ended up.  Since the last test clearly had the saime  KICKS. I can do ig again.  
What does that do?  I think it might track toward the other side of the groove?  I'll swap it over again and see if it helps since re-greasing.

NICELY - greasing lowered my RA RMA error almost 50%.  Here is my history.

Mount arrived. I guided around 1.0.  Always trying to tweak it - not sure why but months later I was guiding at  .24 RMS error (arc set). yeah - that's awesome.
MANY months of that... The RASA guided better than my long APO.  But late winter I swapped RASA V1 for a RASA V2 (heavier) and ever since my guiding was 1.5 average.  My image scale is 1.69 
lately - the RA kicks put me into  1.7-2.0.  I get double stars on every other sub. 
I re-greased the RA and last night afterwards I was 1.1max and usuall around .89 tot rms arc sec. (nice)  But the RA still kicks and makes for double stars.  My dec was still poor so I'll regrease dec next and check
my alignment. (it's fairly perminent in a dome, but I have a tripod leg/mount and it "can move".  I usually check alignment 1-2 times a year or when ever guiding quality decreases. 
I am not aware of any gear scraping - I always release it clean...  I have on 3-4 occasions allowed it to track into a leg and (stop). Not sure if that hurts anything. But seems to work fine next time.

I don't understand why the RA kick changed from lower to higher (E to W?) the mount orientation did not change. 
I'll swap the part positions over and try again tonight.  During regreasing/cleaning I saw nothing strange. No chunks or crud.  old Grease moved quickly,  freely. not at all gummy. 
I have some pics n video.
 
 
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 3:39 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Ron,
 
Howard won't be able to answer you at this time.
 
Can you do a test for me?
 
With keypad in Autostart NO, send the mount to Park1 and turn off power.
Loosen the clutches and move the mount to Park5 manually.
Turn power back on and press "Resume from Park5"
 
Now check to see if the RA anomaly persists. let me know the results and we can go from there.
 
By the way, your screen shot is so blurry I cannot make out any details on it.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
I re-greased the RA.  It was really relaxing and nothing to fear.  No springs jumped out at me or other crazy surprises. 
The first test last night showed my RA improved by almost 50% reduction in RA RMS error.  (I'm shocked).

On the bad side, I did not fix my RA KICK problem.  I did not see RA worm flaws except on the very end (3 turns) of the worm and I'm sure that is never in contact with the drive gear.
I have emailed Howard... but wondered if it helps determine the problem from last night's guide log.  I was surprised to see it FLIPPED the RA kick.  (no meridian flip took place) why would it flip? 

RA KICK.JPG
 
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:21 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit arrived late last night. (UPS error)
Today it was hot in the dome so I just did the RA worm and drive gear. And the side gears)
I hope to test tonight and see if it solves my RA kicking problem. 

I inspected the worm and was in fine shape - EXCEPT I had some very rough area which I don't think matters. It was way over on the very edges of the worm... like the last 2-3 turns were rough. I don't believe this are ever used? 

I greased the entire worm even though it said just the center is all that's needed. Figured it would help ward off corrosion.   The process wasn't scary once the RA box was removed. In fact (I don't recommend this) but I didn't even take my gear off the mount.  RASA 11 + essentials upside down at times.   I forgot about the cords but never turned more than 180.  I actually read the instructions after I was done. (common for me, I like to dig in) then see what I did wrong. 

SOUNDS nice... Will see if the RA hiccups tonight in a guiding test.  if all is good I'll do DEC tomorrow but RA was a primary concern as it would jump and killed every other sub.

Will see tonight.

 
 
 
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 4:33 PM Marj Christen <marj@...> wrote:
Ron,
 
Now that our production staff has returned, the turnaround time for repairs is pretty quick. There is no standard cost for a “ tune up” since it depends on what is involved and if parts have to be replaced.
 
Try regreasing first and contact us again if you can’t resolve the issue.
 
Clear Skies,
 
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics, Inc
11250 Forest Hills Rd
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:33 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
 
I'm about to try to re-grease - I'll see if I can see something during inspection.  Is swapping the worm something easy I can do at home? 
I don't want to do anything complicated. I don't believe I've nicked a gear - I only use park3.  But it has come against the pier during a few 3-4 occasions? Would that do anything?

How much does it cost to send it in for a tune up?  HOW LONG would I be without it?  I'm near in Grand Rapids, MI.
I'll look for a clump of anything in the worm teeth.  If I send it in I don 't want it waiting for weeks/days. What is time frame? 
I ordered the grease, I'll see how that goes.
 
 
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Forget backlash in RA. There is no such thing. RA always tracks so it never reverses. Backlash does not enter into tracking.
 
You may have damaged your worm teeth when you backed off the worm to do a fine balance. You may have forgotten to do it only in the Park3 position. If that's the case, the worm may have a nick in the teeth and it will show up as a repeating pattern once every 6.4 minutes.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 3:30 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
My mach1 is about 2.5 years old.  I was getting awesome guiding with a total rms error of .24 arc sec.  
Winter came and went and this spring it's been horrible.  like  1.4.   My image scale is about 1.69 so I lived with that for a while, but lately
the RA is  KICKING in almost a timely fashion.  One of these kicks makes double stars.  Around 1/2 my subs have to be deleted.
Nothing I have tried to far has fixed it.
I will include the log from a couple nights ago to show what I mean. 
I did a new calibration - then a guide assistant for a while... then set recommendations and let it guide a while.
You'll see   RA  kicking like a mule in a rather evenly timed fashion!?!  
I would so appreciate help with this.  Someone in PHD said make sure the mount software/HC doesn't have backlash on.  
I DO NOT USE or own a HC and I don't know of any BackLash setting in APCC pro.  I'm going nuts. 
 
 

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--


--


--


--


--


--


Re: Mach1 problem please assist

Christopher Erickson
 

I have seen it before where bad PEC data causes all kinds of guiding grief. The manual PEC training function in the hand controller, combined with a transient user was the culprit.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
GREAT NEWS ROLAND.  I'll do some PEC options next time.  Bumbed I didnt remember last night but I was running two rigs and imaging on both  = (
2-3 nights I might get some stars. (but amazed we just had 6 clear nights in a row). 
I'll report back with PE tests


On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 12:23 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Yes, that shows exactly what Andrew discovered when he analyzed your logs. The good news is that it is NOT a mechanical problem. Your geartrain is fine. It is almost certainly a rogue move command coming from either the PE memory, or from some other outside software.

Disconnect all outside software and just let the mount run with PEM turned OFF. Initialize the mount as you normally do, but then yank the connection between your computer and the mount controller (after acquiring a guide star of course). The mount will continue to track at the sidereal rate even with everything disconnected. Let PHD2 simply monitor the motion of a guide star for a period of time. If the same motion persists with no outside software connected, then it is coming from inside the CP controller (either PEM rogue data or a software malfunction). We can easily check the controller here, no need to send the mount in.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

SHOOT I did some tests last night and tried lots of things but forgot to try  PEC  off.   I'll try next clear night.  DANG IT. 

I did turn off guiding though for a bit in the middle here.  So look at PE on this capture, Is this ANY CLUE? 


NOGUIDE.JPG



On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 11:28 AM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Andrew Johansen analyzed your logs and it appears that the problem is not caused by any worm issue or other mechanical defect. It appears that the mount receives a 10 arc second move command and then PHD2 immediately corrects it to bring it back to the zero line. Thus it appears as a spike instead of a continuous move command in one direction. It would have been easy to see the actual motion if the guide pulses had been disabled, and then we would not have been chasing the mechanical red herring down the blind alley.

So, no need at this point to send your mount back here.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I'll check PE. But after cleaning I did a  "record" and it finished so I suspect it recorded a clean PE. 

I REALLY hate sending in the whole thing.  But would be nice to get it all tweaked. (PHD reports a good amount of backlash (not sure if its true)  It always has since new. The backlash graph is always off a good amount. I just ignore it. 


On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

By the way, is it possible that you have PE correction turned on and you are playing back some bad data? We had this happen once on a mount at the Mauna Kea visitor center. Someone had manually entered a huge correction curve into the PE memory and was playing it back. Caused the mount to jump every worm cycle.

If this is not the case, then the mount needs to be sent in for evaluation. I can look at it the moment it arrives. Also send the cables and CP controller too, in case something is weird there.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 19, 2020 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

Next night - I'll do a 2-3-4 worm cycle unguided.  I also may have one in a older log. I'll work on that. 
LAST NIGHTS. 

image.png

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 9:22 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
One other thing that would be extremely helpful is if you ran the mount for about 2 worm cycles (about 15 minutes) with guiding effectively off so i can see what the worm is actually doing. Posting a guided graph hides a lot of stuff that makes it hard to do actual trouble shooting.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 5:57 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist

I'll post then then try groups interface.
I logged out my best guess on each incursion.  There are no seconds so I had to estimate.
This would be the later set of errors that kicked UPWARD

about  12:38.55 sec
about  12:45.20 sec
about  12:51.50 sec
about  12:58.10
about  01:04.40
about  01:11.05
about  01:17.25
about  01:23.50 sec
about  01:30.15 sec

looks like they're spaced 6 min  20 seconds about.   That's about a worm repeat? 

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 6:50 PM Liam Plybon <liam@...> wrote:
Ron,
 
I believe you may have better luck by using an image hosting server and posting a link.
 
Groups is set to compress images automatically after complaints by users with slow or expensive internet who would have to download large images each time one was sent on the group. Especially here, where we all love sharing massive astro-images that can gobble up bandwidth.
 
Liam
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 17:40
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
 
Yep - one continuous run. Not near the meridian.  I'm attaching pics in email. It asks original, best fit etc.  Upon appearing it's a small little blurry version.
would it make them more clear if I enter the post in the groups interface and not in email?   These are BIG ANC CLEAR AND SHARP when I attach them.

I
shape.JPG
dental in shape when zooming in.
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 5:11 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
The graph shows 7 RA motions in the down direction, then a number of RA moves in the opposite direction. Is this over a period of time continuously? In other words, was this graph taken without interruption?
 
Roland
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 3:42 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
Capture is CLEAR and sharp. not sure what "GROUPS" does to images. I hate GROUPS.  Forums are better and allow you to retain/library of topics and Q&A, = (
I'll attach it again.  Is there a limit? size? restriction?    I'll attach at ORIGINAL SIZE

RA KICK.JPG
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 4:37 PM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:
I don't own use a keypad.   I did try that SWAP OVER - but I then cleaned it and not sure where it ended up.  Since the last test clearly had the saime  KICKS. I can do ig again.  
What does that do?  I think it might track toward the other side of the groove?  I'll swap it over again and see if it helps since re-greasing.

NICELY - greasing lowered my RA RMA error almost 50%.  Here is my history.

Mount arrived. I guided around 1.0.  Always trying to tweak it - not sure why but months later I was guiding at  .24 RMS error (arc set). yeah - that's awesome.
MANY months of that... The RASA guided better than my long APO.  But late winter I swapped RASA V1 for a RASA V2 (heavier) and ever since my guiding was 1.5 average.  My image scale is 1.69 
lately - the RA kicks put me into  1.7-2.0.  I get double stars on every other sub. 
I re-greased the RA and last night afterwards I was 1.1max and usuall around .89 tot rms arc sec. (nice)  But the RA still kicks and makes for double stars.  My dec was still poor so I'll regrease dec next and check
my alignment. (it's fairly perminent in a dome, but I have a tripod leg/mount and it "can move".  I usually check alignment 1-2 times a year or when ever guiding quality decreases. 
I am not aware of any gear scraping - I always release it clean...  I have on 3-4 occasions allowed it to track into a leg and (stop). Not sure if that hurts anything. But seems to work fine next time.

I don't understand why the RA kick changed from lower to higher (E to W?) the mount orientation did not change. 
I'll swap the part positions over and try again tonight.  During regreasing/cleaning I saw nothing strange. No chunks or crud.  old Grease moved quickly,  freely. not at all gummy. 
I have some pics n video.
 
 
 
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 3:39 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello Ron,
 
Howard won't be able to answer you at this time.
 
Can you do a test for me?
 
With keypad in Autostart NO, send the mount to Park1 and turn off power.
Loosen the clutches and move the mount to Park5 manually.
Turn power back on and press "Resume from Park5"
 
Now check to see if the RA anomaly persists. let me know the results and we can go from there.
 
By the way, your screen shot is so blurry I cannot make out any details on it.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
I re-greased the RA.  It was really relaxing and nothing to fear.  No springs jumped out at me or other crazy surprises. 
The first test last night showed my RA improved by almost 50% reduction in RA RMS error.  (I'm shocked).

On the bad side, I did not fix my RA KICK problem.  I did not see RA worm flaws except on the very end (3 turns) of the worm and I'm sure that is never in contact with the drive gear.
I have emailed Howard... but wondered if it helps determine the problem from last night's guide log.  I was surprised to see it FLIPPED the RA kick.  (no meridian flip took place) why would it flip? 

RA KICK.JPG
 
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:21 PM Ron Kramer via groups.io <ronkramer1957=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Kit arrived late last night. (UPS error)
Today it was hot in the dome so I just did the RA worm and drive gear. And the side gears)
I hope to test tonight and see if it solves my RA kicking problem. 

I inspected the worm and was in fine shape - EXCEPT I had some very rough area which I don't think matters. It was way over on the very edges of the worm... like the last 2-3 turns were rough. I don't believe this are ever used? 

I greased the entire worm even though it said just the center is all that's needed. Figured it would help ward off corrosion.   The process wasn't scary once the RA box was removed. In fact (I don't recommend this) but I didn't even take my gear off the mount.  RASA 11 + essentials upside down at times.   I forgot about the cords but never turned more than 180.  I actually read the instructions after I was done. (common for me, I like to dig in) then see what I did wrong. 

SOUNDS nice... Will see if the RA hiccups tonight in a guiding test.  if all is good I'll do DEC tomorrow but RA was a primary concern as it would jump and killed every other sub.

Will see tonight.

 
 
 
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 4:33 PM Marj Christen <marj@...> wrote:
Ron,
 
Now that our production staff has returned, the turnaround time for repairs is pretty quick. There is no standard cost for a “ tune up” since it depends on what is involved and if parts have to be replaced.
 
Try regreasing first and contact us again if you can’t resolve the issue.
 
Clear Skies,
 
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics, Inc
11250 Forest Hills Rd
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ron Kramer
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 1:33 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
 
I'm about to try to re-grease - I'll see if I can see something during inspection.  Is swapping the worm something easy I can do at home? 
I don't want to do anything complicated. I don't believe I've nicked a gear - I only use park3.  But it has come against the pier during a few 3-4 occasions? Would that do anything?

How much does it cost to send it in for a tune up?  HOW LONG would I be without it?  I'm near in Grand Rapids, MI.
I'll look for a clump of anything in the worm teeth.  If I send it in I don 't want it waiting for weeks/days. What is time frame? 
I ordered the grease, I'll see how that goes.
 
 
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 7:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Forget backlash in RA. There is no such thing. RA always tracks so it never reverses. Backlash does not enter into tracking.
 
You may have damaged your worm teeth when you backed off the worm to do a fine balance. You may have forgotten to do it only in the Park3 position. If that's the case, the worm may have a nick in the teeth and it will show up as a repeating pattern once every 6.4 minutes.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 3:30 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 problem please assist
My mach1 is about 2.5 years old.  I was getting awesome guiding with a total rms error of .24 arc sec.  
Winter came and went and this spring it's been horrible.  like  1.4.   My image scale is about 1.69 so I lived with that for a while, but lately
the RA is  KICKING in almost a timely fashion.  One of these kicks makes double stars.  Around 1/2 my subs have to be deleted.
Nothing I have tried to far has fixed it.
I will include the log from a couple nights ago to show what I mean. 
I did a new calibration - then a guide assistant for a while... then set recommendations and let it guide a while.
You'll see   RA  kicking like a mule in a rather evenly timed fashion!?!  
I would so appreciate help with this.  Someone in PHD said make sure the mount software/HC doesn't have backlash on.  
I DO NOT USE or own a HC and I don't know of any BackLash setting in APCC pro.  I'm going nuts. 
 
 

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--

 
--


--


--


--


--



--


Re: Mach2 power consumption #Mach2GTO

Christopher Erickson
 

And MAKE SURE that you use a different style of connectors for the 24V power supply and 12V supply. You don't want to connect 24V to your precious camera or other 12V devices.

Anderson makes powerpole connectors in different sizes, for example. Prevent mixups.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   


On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:01 AM Jerome Allison <jallison@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Thanks, David and Rolando.
I will get the simpler Powerwerx supply when it's back in stock, and use the 24 volt supply for the mount in the meantime. 
Jerome
P.S. The mount worked perfectly - I really love it, Roland. Great stuff.


A question about a AP155 EDFS with the 2.7" focuser

Dean Jacobsen
 

One of my observatory partners has an AP155 EDFS with the 2.7" focuser and are going to put it on the Mach2 and try some unguided imaging with it with my small pixel ASI1600MM CMOS camera.

His recollection is that at the native f/7 focal length we will need to put the imaging chip 86.5mm back from the back of the focuser barrel to be able to get the camera into focus.  Is this correct?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can confirm this.
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: Weird tracking artifacts

Roland Christen
 

If the encoders are turned off, then yes, you will have PE. Drift is not something the encoders can fix.
We have a utility that allows you to turn the encoders on or off. Also you can do it in APCC. You have to, of course have the encoders plugged in, and that may not be the case. If they are not plugged in and operating, the mount will simply revert to non-encoder mode and display a but of PE. Check the encoders to see if the light is blue or green. If the light is not on or shows red, then the encoders are not plugged in, or not working.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 3:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Weird tracking artifacts

Hello Roland,

Thanks a lot. That is interesting. So I guess this is PE with drift. I do have encoders on the mount though. Is it possible that encoders are not working?

Regards
Hemant

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 2:29 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Classic periodic error. Every mount has that to some extent (except for encoder mounts), is well known by imagers. Can be mostly eliminated with periodic error correction using a program like PEMPro - the gold standard of PE programs.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:24 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Weird tracking artifacts

Hello all,

I am using a Meade 16 inch f/8 (FL - 3250 mm) on AP1600 GTO with AE. I am seeing some weird tracking artifacts in my images. I cannot go beyond a minute or so unguided.

A couple of nights ago, I tried live stack of m57 with 30s sub exposures.

As you can see in m57_livestack.jpg, there seems to be a "wavy" drift in the image. I saved individual images (30s x 20) and after stacking in PixInsight, the same error is seen on noise (m57_stacked.jpg) - but the pattern is clearer because of smaller structures.

Each 30s exposure itself was just fine as you can see from cleaned up m57.jpg. Guiding was not enabled. If this was polar alignment error, I would have thought it'd follow a more linear drift.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Regards
Hemant





Re: Weird tracking artifacts

Hemant Hariyani
 

Hello Roland,

Thanks a lot. That is interesting. So I guess this is PE with drift. I do have encoders on the mount though. Is it possible that encoders are not working?

Regards
Hemant

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 2:29 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Classic periodic error. Every mount has that to some extent (except for encoder mounts), is well known by imagers. Can be mostly eliminated with periodic error correction using a program like PEMPro - the gold standard of PE programs.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:24 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Weird tracking artifacts

Hello all,

I am using a Meade 16 inch f/8 (FL - 3250 mm) on AP1600 GTO with AE. I am seeing some weird tracking artifacts in my images. I cannot go beyond a minute or so unguided.

A couple of nights ago, I tried live stack of m57 with 30s sub exposures.

As you can see in m57_livestack.jpg, there seems to be a "wavy" drift in the image. I saved individual images (30s x 20) and after stacking in PixInsight, the same error is seen on noise (m57_stacked.jpg) - but the pattern is clearer because of smaller structures.

Each 30s exposure itself was just fine as you can see from cleaned up m57.jpg. Guiding was not enabled. If this was polar alignment error, I would have thought it'd follow a more linear drift.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Regards
Hemant





Re: Weird tracking artifacts

Roland Christen
 

By the way, the majority of the tracking error in your images is drift due to polar misalignment and the fact that you are not using a model. For such a large scope and long focal length you really cannot do unguided imaging unless you reduce the periodic error below 1 arc sec (can be done on the 1600), AND also make an extensive accurate all-sky model with APPM. Then you might be able to get 5 minutes or more unguided.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Weird tracking artifacts

Classic periodic error. Every mount has that to some extent (except for encoder mounts), is well known by imagers. Can be mostly eliminated with periodic error correction using a program like PEMPro - the gold standard of PE programs.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:24 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Weird tracking artifacts

Hello all,

I am using a Meade 16 inch f/8 (FL - 3250 mm) on AP1600 GTO with AE. I am seeing some weird tracking artifacts in my images. I cannot go beyond a minute or so unguided.

A couple of nights ago, I tried live stack of m57 with 30s sub exposures.

As you can see in m57_livestack.jpg, there seems to be a "wavy" drift in the image. I saved individual images (30s x 20) and after stacking in PixInsight, the same error is seen on noise (m57_stacked.jpg) - but the pattern is clearer because of smaller structures.

Each 30s exposure itself was just fine as you can see from cleaned up m57.jpg. Guiding was not enabled. If this was polar alignment error, I would have thought it'd follow a more linear drift.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Regards
Hemant





Re: Weird tracking artifacts

Roland Christen
 

Classic periodic error. Every mount has that to some extent (except for encoder mounts), is well known by imagers. Can be mostly eliminated with periodic error correction using a program like PEMPro - the gold standard of PE programs.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Hemant Hariyani <hemanthariyani@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 2:24 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Weird tracking artifacts

Hello all,

I am using a Meade 16 inch f/8 (FL - 3250 mm) on AP1600 GTO with AE. I am seeing some weird tracking artifacts in my images. I cannot go beyond a minute or so unguided.

A couple of nights ago, I tried live stack of m57 with 30s sub exposures.

As you can see in m57_livestack.jpg, there seems to be a "wavy" drift in the image. I saved individual images (30s x 20) and after stacking in PixInsight, the same error is seen on noise (m57_stacked.jpg) - but the pattern is clearer because of smaller structures.

Each 30s exposure itself was just fine as you can see from cleaned up m57.jpg. Guiding was not enabled. If this was polar alignment error, I would have thought it'd follow a more linear drift.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Regards
Hemant





Weird tracking artifacts

Hemant Hariyani
 

Hello all,

I am using a Meade 16 inch f/8 (FL - 3250 mm) on AP1600 GTO with AE. I am seeing some weird tracking artifacts in my images. I cannot go beyond a minute or so unguided.

A couple of nights ago, I tried live stack of m57 with 30s sub exposures.

As you can see in m57_livestack.jpg, there seems to be a "wavy" drift in the image. I saved individual images (30s x 20) and after stacking in PixInsight, the same error is seen on noise (m57_stacked.jpg) - but the pattern is clearer because of smaller structures.

Each 30s exposure itself was just fine as you can see from cleaned up m57.jpg. Guiding was not enabled. If this was polar alignment error, I would have thought it'd follow a more linear drift.

Any ideas on what could be causing this?

Regards
Hemant





Re: Do-it-yourself battery replacement in 'new' keypad vs have AP do it ? (Cost ?)

Roland Christen
 

Call AP and they will tell you, depending on which keypad you have.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Dodd <mike@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Do-it-yourself battery replacement in 'new' keypad vs have AP do it ? (Cost ?)

On 6/20/2020 1:17 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io wrote:
> The batteries can be purchased from us, and they have the connector
> attached, so all you do is unplug the old battery and plug in the new one.

Cost? (Asked in the subject line.)

--- Mike






Re: Point Mapping Strategies for the Mobile Imager

Dean Jacobsen
 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 09:38 AM, Konstantin von Poschinger wrote:
If you always setup the same equipment I would try to reuse al full point mapping. Make signs on the counter wight shaft an so on and install all things in the same way.
Thank you Konstantin, I will definitely incorporate your suggestions.
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: Point Mapping Strategies for the Mobile Imager

Dean Jacobsen
 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 09:57 AM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
If you can leave your pier there, maybe one solution is to leave your mount base attached and simply remove the Ra axis from the base. There are 6 screws that attach the RA axis to the base and they can be easily removed to allow the rest of the mount to go home with you. That way you don't have to redo your polar alignment every time you set up, and your model will be accurate.
Yes, the pier is permanently mounted with the Mach1/Mach2 mounting plate screwed on to the permanent pier.  However, I can't just drop the mount on the mounting plate and get the same position.  I always have to tune up the azimuth polar alignment and sometimes a little altitude adjustment is required.

Thank you for the suggestion about pulling the RA axis off the base!!!  That is definitely something that I will do.  That will save me a lot of time.

Thank you for the suggestions on the dec. line mapping as well.
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/ 
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: Do-it-yourself battery replacement in 'new' keypad vs have AP do it ? (Cost ?)

Mike Dodd
 

On 6/20/2020 1:17 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com> via groups.io wrote:
The batteries can be purchased from us, and they have the connector
attached, so all you do is unplug the old battery and plug in the new one.
Cost? (Asked in the subject line.)

--- Mike


Re: Do-it-yourself battery replacement in 'new' keypad vs have AP do it ? (Cost ?)

Roland Christen
 

The batteries can be purchased from us, and they have the connector attached, so all you do is unplug the old battery and plug in the new one.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Dodd <mike@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Do-it-yourself battery replacement in 'new' keypad vs have AP do it ? (Cost ?)

On 6/20/2020 3:25 AM, Geert wrote:
> Gert,
>
> I have replaced batterys in my keypad(s) with the instructions as given
> on the AP tech support page, no problem to do it yourself provided you
> have the correct battery type for your keypad.  Read the instructions
> carefully.
>
> Sending a keypad to AP to do this is possible but for me prohibitive
> because of the cost and hassle to do so from Europe.

The battery mentioned in the instructions is a coin cell with wires
soldered to it. These are not easy to find.

Instead, I bought on eBay a CR1430 battery with tabs intended to solder
in holes in a PC board. I unplugged the wires in the hand box, and cut
them off where they attached to the original battery. Then I soldered
the wires onto the tabs of the new battery, and re-plugged the connector.

The hand box works fine, and now I never need to search for a battery
with wires.

A photo is attached. (The soldered wires are covered with black
heat-shrink tubing, so the wire colors are hidden.)

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com



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