Date   

Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 

I'd rather put them to work.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 4, 2020 12:16 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

You could go full on and invite people to come watch real-time. 🙂


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 10:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
At the moment my skies are clear, the mount is taking 1 hour exposures in stride with something on the order of .055 to .09 pixel rms while guiding with 10 second guide exposures. If i can figure out how to post a short movie of the guide graph, i can show better how nicely an encoder mount follows the stars.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:56 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Our minds can be on many things (AP400AE) in these times, they can drift to memories of the past (AP400AE) and they can remind us of more cherished moments (AP400AE) which if there is any good from this situation we face -- its the ability for people to reflect. 🙂

Oh and AP400AE sounds cool. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
Oh DUH! I get it now. Takes a bit these days :-))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

That's why I specifically pointed my response at Ray. Roland, your emails are not getting routed to the SPAM folder. I know I replied to your most recent post with this message to Ray, it was deliberate so my reply wouldn't end up in everyone's SPAM folders too.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:16 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Bill Long
 

You could go full on and invite people to come watch real-time. 🙂


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 10:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
At the moment my skies are clear, the mount is taking 1 hour exposures in stride with something on the order of .055 to .09 pixel rms while guiding with 10 second guide exposures. If i can figure out how to post a short movie of the guide graph, i can show better how nicely an encoder mount follows the stars.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:56 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Our minds can be on many things (AP400AE) in these times, they can drift to memories of the past (AP400AE) and they can remind us of more cherished moments (AP400AE) which if there is any good from this situation we face -- its the ability for people to reflect. 🙂

Oh and AP400AE sounds cool. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
Oh DUH! I get it now. Takes a bit these days :-))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

That's why I specifically pointed my response at Ray. Roland, your emails are not getting routed to the SPAM folder. I know I replied to your most recent post with this message to Ray, it was deliberate so my reply wouldn't end up in everyone's SPAM folders too.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:16 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 

At the moment my skies are clear, the mount is taking 1 hour exposures in stride with something on the order of .055 to .09 pixel rms while guiding with 10 second guide exposures. If i can figure out how to post a short movie of the guide graph, i can show better how nicely an encoder mount follows the stars.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:56 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Our minds can be on many things (AP400AE) in these times, they can drift to memories of the past (AP400AE) and they can remind us of more cherished moments (AP400AE) which if there is any good from this situation we face -- its the ability for people to reflect. 🙂

Oh and AP400AE sounds cool. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
Oh DUH! I get it now. Takes a bit these days :-))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

That's why I specifically pointed my response at Ray. Roland, your emails are not getting routed to the SPAM folder. I know I replied to your most recent post with this message to Ray, it was deliberate so my reply wouldn't end up in everyone's SPAM folders too.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:16 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Bill Long
 

Our minds can be on many things (AP400AE) in these times, they can drift to memories of the past (AP400AE) and they can remind us of more cherished moments (AP400AE) which if there is any good from this situation we face -- its the ability for people to reflect. 🙂

Oh and AP400AE sounds cool. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
Oh DUH! I get it now. Takes a bit these days :-))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

That's why I specifically pointed my response at Ray. Roland, your emails are not getting routed to the SPAM folder. I know I replied to your most recent post with this message to Ray, it was deliberate so my reply wouldn't end up in everyone's SPAM folders too.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:16 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 

Oh DUH! I get it now. Takes a bit these days :-))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 11:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

That's why I specifically pointed my response at Ray. Roland, your emails are not getting routed to the SPAM folder. I know I replied to your most recent post with this message to Ray, it was deliberate so my reply wouldn't end up in everyone's SPAM folders too.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:16 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Christopher Erickson
 

That's why I specifically pointed my response at Ray. Roland, your emails are not getting routed to the SPAM folder. I know I replied to your most recent post with this message to Ray, it was deliberate so my reply wouldn't end up in everyone's SPAM folders too.


On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 1:16 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 


Can I get a graph in MaxIm without guiding?  I guess I'll find out!
Yes. Simply turn the aggressiveness to 0.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 8:10 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Can I get a graph in MaxIm without guiding?  I guess I'll find out!


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

CurtisC
 

Can I get a graph in MaxIm without guiding?  I guess I'll find out!


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 


This is can go positive or negative to the graph line.
A guided graph is useless for analysis. We need to see UNGUIDED graph. Set the cadence at 1/2 second, grab 7 minutes of tracking with pulses turned OFF. Then post the resultant guide graph. Both RA and Dec, please.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:04 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 05:51 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more
This is can go positive or negative to the graph line.  My polar alignment is as close to exact as I can get with the Polar Alignment Wizard in PEMPro.  I do 30 min subs without noticeable field rotation.  The only reason I didn't try 60 min, as in your Pelican shot, is that I don't have 60 min darks. 


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Steven
 

I never see Roland's emails directly and can only view them when in response to another poster, on the bottom of the other poster's msg.

SE
NZ


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
Sent: Thursday, 3 September 2020 7:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding
 
Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 

I'm not Ray  ;-)

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 6:02 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

CurtisC
 
Edited

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 05:51 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more
This can go positive or negative to the graph line.  My polar alignment is as close to exact as I can get with the Polar Alignment Wizard in PEMPro.  I do 30 min subs without noticeable field rotation.  The only reason I didn't try 60 min, as in your Pelican shot, is that I don't have 60 min darks.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Christopher Erickson
 

Ray, just FYI but Gmail is routing all of your group emails destined for me into my SPAM folder because they believe there is a "suspicious link" in your posts.

Possibly everyone in this group using gmail is having the same experience and need to check their spam folder. 

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:51 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte=verizon.net@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 


I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2. 
A min move of .01 is extremely small and can result in lots of unwanted error command being sent to the mount. At 1x sidereal guide rate a setting of .01 means that pulses are sent if the guide star measured centroid is off by only 0.15 arc seconds. This is insane for two reasons: your guide scope cannot resolve this level of accuracy, and the guider software will not be able to measure the star's centroid to that level of accuracy. With that low setting you just end up pushing and pulling the RA axis around without really getting anywhere.

As far as the Mach2, if you are on the list, we will make one for you. It's just a matter of time. These mounts are in full production, but they require a lot of machining and assembly labor time.

Finally, I recently posted an image taken on a Mach1 mount last year:
https://www.astrobin.com/full/jzf18a/0/

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 


Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC. 
This why I posted the method to identify and characterize what your mount's tracking is doing. You take fast guide cadence images with your guide camera with guide pulses OFF. Take this over several minutes, even 10 minutes if you have the time. Look at your guide plot and then you can begin to analyze (or we can) what is happening. PEMPro can do it also, and again a fast cadence so you can see what the two axes are doing second by second. PHD2 guiding files can also be used, but one needs to back engineer the data and back out the guide pulses in order to see what the mount was doing. It is so much easier to analyze the guider plots with the guide pulses turned off.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Thank you.  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather which made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

CurtisC
 
Edited

Thank you. 

No.  I have the old-style gearbox (Mach1GTO, delivered Mar 2010).  I use 5 seconds for guiding.  I've never experienced much benefit to changing to something significantly different.  For several years I used the Baader Vario-Finder as a guide scope, but I now have the Superstar back in the OAG of the QSI 683.  My main scope is a TEC140ED (1035 mm FL with flattener).  I haven't seen much difference in the shapes of the stars between the two guider methods, but the reported numbers and the graph (MaxIm) are certainly different.  Stars will ride pretty close to the zero line for several cycles, and then they'll wander off to 2.00 or even more, then they get reeled back in over several cycles.  I see more of this in RA than DEC.  I have min move set to 0.01, max set to 0.3, aggressiveness (the past few nights) at 7.  But the tiny faint stars aren't always round, and I'm always interested in ways to mitigate that.  I was blown away by the stars in your Pelican image.  As a result I put my name down to be "notified" about the Mach2.  Maybe I'll live long enough for my name to come up.  I'll get a log for you and/or Ray.  Thanks.

"Heavy air" is rare here.  It occurs mainly when the marine layer is super deep (we're at 4000 ft), but then the humidity is way too high to open the observatory.  Best seeing is when the marine layer is shallow, which means the air is clear but flowing smoothly from the ocean.  It's that weather that made Mt. Wilson and Palomar desirable observatory sites.  If the marine layer is just deep enough to cover L.A. and San Diego with fog or low clouds, then that makes the sky much darker.  Summer and fall bring our best observing weather, with weeks of consecutive cloudless nights.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Roland Christen
 

Do you have the gearbox version with the lever that lifts the worm out of mesh?

RA mesh should not be super tight. You should have it one the loose side so that the gear teeth make contact only on the driving side. You don't have to worry about loose mesh in RA because there is no reversal of the axis during tracking/guiding. The gears are always in contact and only slowing down or speeding up during guiding.

In PHD2 the guiding assistant allows the program to evaluate the sky conditions and makes recommendations on settings. Guiding in the two axes is different from a mechanical standpoint, and sometimes we confuse what is happening in Dec with what is happening in RA. To see how the mount performs by itself, take a number of guide exposures in rapid succession over a period of about 1 -2 minutes. Set the exposure at 0.5 seconds with no delay between exposures and guide pulses turned OFF (very important - NO guide pulses). Do this with PEM on and then PEM off.

The curves you get can be analyzed to see how the mount actually tracks for that period of time. Compare the RA and DEC curves for P-P disturbances which are caused by seeing, and the longer term departures of the curves from the zero line, which is an indication of the mount's polar alignment. You will probably see that for periods of 1 minute the two lines do not run off in crazy directions. They may drift somewhat, but won't have huge sudden departures from their average track. That drift will determine the guide cadence that you can use to keep the star within a certain range. For example, if the guide star drifts maximum of 1 arc second every 10 seconds, then you can safely do a 5 second guide rate and still be well under 1 arc second pk error. You can use the trend line to determine the drift rate.

In this test there will be some back and forth due to seeing, and this will be your baseline for setting the Min Move. If the seeing is 1 arc sec P-P, then your Min Move setting should be .033 seconds at 1x sidereal guide rate (Min Move = seeing in arc sec divided by 30). If seeing is variable, sometimes higher, sometimes less, then set the Min move to the highest seeing number. This should give you the best setting for that parameter.

Guiding should not be done at the above fast data gathering rates rates. Do not confuse getting data of mount performance with setting your mount up for good steady guiding. I like to do guide rates of between 2 to 5 seconds in order to minimize the effects of seeing (scintillation). Even in good seeing I normally use long guide exposures. However, if your guide camera is very sensitive and you want to use 1 second or less exposures, then add a delay of at least 2 seconds between exposures. This gives the mount a chance to actually do the moves being commanded without getting a huge number of move commands on top of each other, which can result in overshoot and oscillations on the DEC axis.

I hope this has been of value. A good time to do these tests is now when the Moon is full. A good night for tests is also when the transparency is bad, and the air is heavy but super stable.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: CurtisC via groups.io <calypte@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2020 3:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

The weather forecast for this weekend is for extremely hot weather with wind from the northeast, which always brings bad seeing.  It'll be a good time to play with PEMPro.  I run 5 curves as standard procedure.  I'll take a look at balance.  I disassembled both gear boxes a month ago to regrease the mount.  Having done it and having seen how they go together and work, I have no fear about removing the motors again.  I'll try tackling the balance.  The worm mesh is done as well as I can do it, according to the printed instructions.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Curtis,

 

As both Roland and I have mentioned, what you saw was likely related to gear mesh or balance.

 

However, it would be nice if you are using PEMPro V3 to zip up and post your PEMPro logs, or email them privately. You can start up the PEMPro Log Zipper utility from PEMPro's 'Wizards' menu. See this screenshot for where to look for it:

 

 

-Ray Gralak

Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro

Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com

Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

 

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of CurtisC via groups.io

> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 1:27 PM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

>

> [Edited Message Follows]

>

> The weather forecast for this weekend is for extremely hot weather with wind from the northeast, which always

> brings bad seeing (interior southern California).  It'll be a good time to play with PEMPro.  I run 5 curves as

> standard procedure.  I'll take a look at balance.  I disassembled both gear boxes a month ago to regrease the

> mount.  Having done it and having seen how they go together and work, I have no fear about removing the motors

> again.  I'll try tackling the balance.  The worm mesh is done as well as I can do it, according to the printed

> instructions.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

CurtisC
 
Edited

The weather forecast for this weekend is for extremely hot weather with wind from the northeast, which always brings bad seeing (interior southern California).  It'll be a good time to play with PEMPro.  I run 5 curves as standard procedure.  I'll take a look at balance.  I disassembled both gear boxes a month ago to regrease the mount.  Having done it and having seen how they go together and work, I have no fear about removing the motors again.  I'll try tackling the balance.  The worm mesh is done as well as I can do it, according to the printed instructions.


Re: PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray Gralak
 

Curtis,

much effect. Last night I ran a PEMPro v.3 curve on my 2010-vintage Mach1GTO,
and PEMPro came up with p-to-p of 6-something, which is the best I've ever measured
with this mount. But about three hours later I ran another curve, and it was over 10 --
which is more typical with this mount.
Seeing will not cause a change of 4 arc-secs in the periodic error.

However, a change in PE can be caused by the worm not riding consistently on the worm wheel teeth.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of CurtisC via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2020 12:46 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PEMPro vs PHD2 #Guiding

Ray, a few days ago I asked about the effect of seeing on PEMPro curves. Maybe I misunderstood you or I didn't
read your reply correctly or I simply saw what I wanted to see, but I came away thinking that seeing doesn't have
much effect. Last night I ran a PEMPro v.3 curve on my 2010-vintage Mach1GTO, and PEMPro came up with p-
to-p of 6-something, which is the best I've ever measured with this mount. But about three hours later I ran
another curve, and it was over 10 -- which is more typical with this mount. I'm only using the 1st fundamental,
which is according to past advice from you in this forum. I assume that the 1st fundamental limits the curve to the
worm and excludes the spur gears and other possible anomalies. If I include other fundamentals, the numbers
are substantially worse.

So I'd like you to revisit the effect of seeing on PEMPro curves.

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