Date   

Re: Multiple Power Supply Setup

Joseph Beyer
 

I'm curious as to whether similar grounding precautions need to be taken between a Powerwerx power supply ( for mount, camera and dew heaters) and an AC-DC brick powering just a computer?  At least at first glance it seems it's a similar situation as two Powerwerx boxes working simultaneously.  Both are connected to the mains with three prong plugs but is that enough?


Re: Mach1 RA guiding spike

 

>>> That's why I always want to see unguided data if possible.

yes agreed on that

Another possibility i've seen (not on AP mounts but others) is a bad PEC. If you see the spikes behavior during unguided you can also disable PEC during unguided capture to see if that addresses it



On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 12:16 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If it's a snag it will show up during an unguided exposure as a shift rather than a spike in the guider graph. Whenever you are troubleshooting a problem, guided data is not useful because guiding tends to hide or compensate for an anomaly. That's why I always want to see unguided data if possible.

Same is true of star images that have defects. Defocus the image of the star and this can instantly tell where the problem lies, whether it's in the main optics or somewhere further down the imaging train.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2022 1:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 RA guiding spike

Hi Yanzhe

I had a chance to go through your guidelog and have a few observations. I think you still need to track down the source, but we can probably rule out a few things

I don't think it's in the guiding: they happen independent of dithers and they are instantaneous, so guide pulses are causing these

I don't think it's mechanical, or at least part of the gearing: there is no clear periodicity to them, and they happen in very limited circumstances (in 6 1/2 hours of guiding i counted 6 total, all relatively close in time together)

this is the time between the spikes (in secs):
261
139
155
575
90

I did notice it only appeared to happen when the mount was pier side west, so it could be something related to shifting equipment, snags, etc.

you might try replicating that pointing position and see if it repeats in the same place @ Hour angle = -1.20 hr, Pier side = West,  Alt = 50.0 deg, Az = 151.1 deg

if it does, try disabling guiding and see if it shows up in unguided output

Also the guidelog did not include a calibration run or a guiding assistant (unguided output) so those would be helpful to include if you post a guidelog again



On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 11:14 AM yanzhe liu <liuyanzhe@...> wrote:
There is no backlash.
I am using OAG and it has never had any issue.


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: AP 900 Questions

Eric Weiner
 

I agree.


Re: AP 900 Questions

Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

I like that Eric, but although it is on theme for sure, I still don't think it is enough.


Re: AP 900 Questions

Eric Weiner
 

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 01:36 PM, Emilio J. Robau, P.E. wrote:
 I am going to have to create a new word for it.
I use "stellar"


Re: Multiple Power Supply Setup

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

I have the same, and it's simple to tie them together by just doing a powerpole black (only) and running it between the two rig runners.  Then if you switch to one supply, or batteries, etc. it's always tied together.

 

Love those powerpoles.

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 3:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Multiple Power Supply Setup

 

Yes, good idea. It prevents leakage currents from building up between the various loads and potentially causing USB ports blowing up. Power supplies that are connected to the 120 volt mains can have small leakage currents that need to be shunted to the ground to also prevent injury to yourself. The jumper should actually also be attached to a ground somewhere when these supplies are used outdoors (water pipe or other good ground).

 

Rolando

 

-----Original Message-----
From: M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2022 1:50 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Multiple Power Supply Setup

I recently purchased a second Powerwerx 25 Amp Variable Voltage power supply. I am running my 1100 mount and camera off of one of them, and the dew heaters and laptop off of the other. I have had a few strange IT issues since I started doing this, and Colin Haig at Diffraction Ltd. has suggested to me that I need to tie the negative terminals of the two Powerwerx power supplies together to avoid any number of problems. The sketch below shows what is being recommended with the jumper.

Is this a good idea ?

Mike


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: AP 900 Questions

Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

All my questions were answered.  I have to say that in today's world there is something almost perverse about the way AP operates.  I don't know how to describe it.   Excellence in manufacturing and service is not a good enough description for the behavior.   I am going to have to create a new word for it.


Re: APCC and MGBox V2

Larry Phillips
 

Ray, is connecting via GPS tab necessary if only interested in temperature?  I can't connect there either.

Larry


Re: Multiple Power Supply Setup

Roland Christen
 

Yes, good idea. It prevents leakage currents from building up between the various loads and potentially causing USB ports blowing up. Power supplies that are connected to the 120 volt mains can have small leakage currents that need to be shunted to the ground to also prevent injury to yourself. The jumper should actually also be attached to a ground somewhere when these supplies are used outdoors (water pipe or other good ground).

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2022 1:50 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Multiple Power Supply Setup

I recently purchased a second Powerwerx 25 Amp Variable Voltage power supply. I am running my 1100 mount and camera off of one of them, and the dew heaters and laptop off of the other. I have had a few strange IT issues since I started doing this, and Colin Haig at Diffraction Ltd. has suggested to me that I need to tie the negative terminals of the two Powerwerx power supplies together to avoid any number of problems. The sketch below shows what is being recommended with the jumper.

Is this a good idea ?

Mike


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Mach1 RA guiding spike

Roland Christen
 

If it's a snag it will show up during an unguided exposure as a shift rather than a spike in the guider graph. Whenever you are troubleshooting a problem, guided data is not useful because guiding tends to hide or compensate for an anomaly. That's why I always want to see unguided data if possible.

Same is true of star images that have defects. Defocus the image of the star and this can instantly tell where the problem lies, whether it's in the main optics or somewhere further down the imaging train.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2022 1:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 RA guiding spike

Hi Yanzhe

I had a chance to go through your guidelog and have a few observations. I think you still need to track down the source, but we can probably rule out a few things

I don't think it's in the guiding: they happen independent of dithers and they are instantaneous, so guide pulses are causing these

I don't think it's mechanical, or at least part of the gearing: there is no clear periodicity to them, and they happen in very limited circumstances (in 6 1/2 hours of guiding i counted 6 total, all relatively close in time together)

this is the time between the spikes (in secs):
261
139
155
575
90

I did notice it only appeared to happen when the mount was pier side west, so it could be something related to shifting equipment, snags, etc.

you might try replicating that pointing position and see if it repeats in the same place @ Hour angle = -1.20 hr, Pier side = West,  Alt = 50.0 deg, Az = 151.1 deg

if it does, try disabling guiding and see if it shows up in unguided output

Also the guidelog did not include a calibration run or a guiding assistant (unguided output) so those would be helpful to include if you post a guidelog again



On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 11:14 AM yanzhe liu <liuyanzhe@...> wrote:
There is no backlash.
I am using OAG and it has never had any issue.


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Mach1 RA guiding spike

Roland Christen
 

There are 2.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: yanzhe liu <liuyanzhe@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jan 31, 2022 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 RA guiding spike

Roland,

Are there 2 or 3 screws? I saw 2. Is there another one hidden behind Alt adjustment knobs?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Multiple Power Supply Setup

M Hambrick
 

I recently purchased a second Powerwerx 25 Amp Variable Voltage power supply. I am running my 1100 mount and camera off of one of them, and the dew heaters and laptop off of the other. I have had a few strange IT issues since I started doing this, and Colin Haig at Diffraction Ltd. has suggested to me that I need to tie the negative terminals of the two Powerwerx power supplies together to avoid any number of problems. The sketch below shows what is being recommended with the jumper.

Is this a good idea ?

Mike


Re: Mach1 RA guiding spike

 

Hi Yanzhe

I had a chance to go through your guidelog and have a few observations. I think you still need to track down the source, but we can probably rule out a few things

I don't think it's in the guiding: they happen independent of dithers and they are instantaneous, so guide pulses are causing these

I don't think it's mechanical, or at least part of the gearing: there is no clear periodicity to them, and they happen in very limited circumstances (in 6 1/2 hours of guiding i counted 6 total, all relatively close in time together)

this is the time between the spikes (in secs):
261
139
155
575
90

I did notice it only appeared to happen when the mount was pier side west, so it could be something related to shifting equipment, snags, etc.

you might try replicating that pointing position and see if it repeats in the same place @ Hour angle = -1.20 hr, Pier side = West,  Alt = 50.0 deg, Az = 151.1 deg

if it does, try disabling guiding and see if it shows up in unguided output

Also the guidelog did not include a calibration run or a guiding assistant (unguided output) so those would be helpful to include if you post a guidelog again



On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 11:14 AM yanzhe liu <liuyanzhe@...> wrote:
There is no backlash.
I am using OAG and it has never had any issue.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Mach1 RA guiding spike

yanzhe liu
 

There is no backlash.
I am using OAG and it has never had any issue.


Re: Mach1 RA guiding spike

yanzhe liu
 

Roland,

Are there 2 or 3 screws? I saw 2. Is there another one hidden behind Alt adjustment knobs?


Re: Some Help from the Experts Here would be Appreciated

marsh.family
 

Thanks for the advice, will give it a try this pm

 

Chris

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Nagy
Sent: January 31, 2022 11:03 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Some Help from the Experts Here would be Appreciated

 

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 06:23 AM, marsh.family wrote:

I have to trial moving the prism. I think that is the issue. Frost or dew might be a possibility but it seems to be consistent night to night. 

 

Hopefully tonight if the weather clears. 

 

No need to test prism shadow under dark sky. Take flats to test presence of prism shadow and adjust prism stalk until prism shadow is gone. Much easier and more accurate this way.

Peter


Re: APPM Slew Warning then failure at the same spots every time

 

>>> This issue was solved by Roland.  He provided some updated Mach2 settings to accommodate my heavy OTA. 

nice! same here, the tunable settings really helped

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:16 AM Eric Weiner <weinere@...> wrote:
Brian,

This issue was solved by Roland.  He provided some updated Mach2 settings to accommodate my heavy OTA.  I was really shocked by the improved performance.  But, I think I was using 3s settle times when I was experiencing the anomalies.  I went through several rounds of changing the APPM variables when I was troubleshooting.  Nothing helped.  After initializing the new settings from Roland I did several test maps with very aggressive settings (2x2 3s exposures, 1200x slew rate, 2s settle time) in order to stress test it.  No bad solves.  Then I did that 600+ point model that I mentioned in another thread.  I had 6 bad solves, 2 were due to clouds and the others were likely wind gusts.  For that map I toned it down to 2x2 3s exposures, 1000x slews, 3s settle time.

Eric



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: APPM Slew Warning then failure at the same spots every time

Eric Weiner
 

Brian,

This issue was solved by Roland.  He provided some updated Mach2 settings to accommodate my heavy OTA.  I was really shocked by the improved performance.  But, I think I was using 3s settle times when I was experiencing the anomalies.  I went through several rounds of changing the APPM variables when I was troubleshooting.  Nothing helped.  After initializing the new settings from Roland I did several test maps with very aggressive settings (2x2 3s exposures, 1200x slew rate, 2s settle time) in order to stress test it.  No bad solves.  Then I did that 600+ point model that I mentioned in another thread.  I had 6 bad solves, 2 were due to clouds and the others were likely wind gusts.  For that map I toned it down to 2x2 3s exposures, 1000x slews, 3s settle time.

Eric


Re: APPM Slew Warning then failure at the same spots every time

 

Eric

>>>the OTA was pointing relatively low towards the southern horizon for all 22. 

Curious what was your mount settle time in APPM?

I have experienced similar issues, but only a handful fail with trailing stars, particularly in the south. I have a 20" truss design, so ruling out flexure/ momentum is a tricky proposition. I don't have an easy way to just pop a refractor on there (remote obs). In the past i've tested a slew settle time of 60 seconds just to see what happens, and it did resolve most of those trailing star issues. Roland & Co. also helped tremendously with some tuned parameters for damping the mount.  



On Sat, Jan 29, 2022 at 12:16 PM Eric Weiner <weinere@...> wrote:
Bill,

I’ve had this Mach2 since Dec 20 but have only now tried a full sky model since I’m not in an observatory. Ive had the TOA130NFB a bit longer. It used to sit on a Chinese mount until I found A-P. The affected points are all relatively low on the southern horizon where I never image. I’ve used a number of Dec arc models successfully over the past couple months without a single plate solve failure, but they’ve all been higher. I also use my gear for visuals and haven’t seen anything but stellar tracking performance with no guiding. No anomalies. It wasn’t until last night during a 522 point all sky APPM run that I saw this behavior. 22 points failed to solve, all 22 showed trails/oscillation. 2 others failed due to clouds near zenith. The remaining 498 show round stars. 20 of the 22 were on the west side of the pier with CW down (below the CW up plane but near horizontal). The OTA was pointing relatively low towards the southern horizon for all 22. I had a couple fail at Dec +5 on the west side, but most failed below Dec 0, also on the west side. 

I suppose I could improve my moment arm a little by keeping the dew shield retracted but it helps with the house lights I’m surrounded by. Why people feel that the need to illuminate their houses and yards all night is beyond me. I’ve got a flipflat on the OTA, but it weighs practically nothing. My setup isn’t anything really out of the ordinary. Like other TOAs, it’s a little forward heavy, but I’m anal with balancing and tend to use a hex wrench to get the clutches slightly tighter than hand tight when I’m imaging. 

I’m curious to see how your TOA150 with imaging train fares as well. Run a 500+ point model when you can and share the results please. 

Eric 



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: AP 900 Questions

Steve Reilly
 

And that again is what’s missing in many companies these days…..personal and available tech support. AP leads in this and many other fields. Thanks Karen! Looking forward to hopefully seeing the gang at NEAIC this April.

 

-Steve

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Karen Christen
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 12:39 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP 900 Questions

 

Hello Emilio,

 

Congratulations on your new AP900!  I’m very happy to hear it’s in excellent condition.  I’ll let anyone in the group here contribute their experiences and thoughts.  In addition, I highly recommend calling the office and speaking with George or Howard.  They would be happy to answer many of your questions below, and any back-and-forth will go faster.  Our office phone is 815.282.1513, answered 9am – 5pm CST Monday through Friday.

 

Enjoy and have fun!

Karen

AP

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 11:21 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] AP 900 Questions

 

Greetings Everyone,

I have been fortunate enough to purchase my second AP mount.   I already have a 1600 and I just received a used AP900.   First of all I want to indicate that I am thrilled at owning another fine instrument from AP.   The first thing I did was to re-grease the gears.  I completed that last night and I am pleased to report that it went beautifully.  Recently I did this for my 1600 and that learning experience helped me especially with the gear meshing.   This time it was much easier and the simplicity of the 900 attachment made it even easier.  I have yet to check the PE and feed it another curve, but there are so many similarities in the mount design that I expect good performance. I have a few questions and maybe someone can help out.

1.) The mount is pre SN 900 450.    I understand that from that SN on, there were modifications to the dec assembly that allowed the mount to more effectively guide while counterweight up.   I understand that AP enhanced prior to SN 900 450.  Is this enhancement still available?  Can the enhancement be done by the end user?  What was the issue with the mount in the first place?  I am perfectly happy to not guide with the counterweight up, but of course I want to further understand the issue and modify my expectations accordingly.
2.) I received a hand controller that boots up with 4.19.3.  Is this the latest firmware release?  Can this hand controller be used on both of my mounts?  If so, I may keep it.  However, I really don't need it since I am strictly an imager and run everything from computers.  I may sell it to upgrade other items.
3.) The unit has a CP2 control box on it.   I have a wanted add out for a CP3 box on Amart.  If anyone has an older CP3 box they want to sell let me know.  I may go for the CP4 which is what I have on my 1600.   The CP2 box has the E chip.  I thought that the latest hand controller would not run on the CP2 box.  Yet, mine seems to run.  Is that because the chip was updated to the latest and greatest for the CP2 box?
4.) I want a fresh start so just as I have re-greased the unit, I want to go ahead and replace the clutch plugs as indicated in the Clutch Plug Replacement for 900 and 1200 mounts but can't seem to find parts M12300 or M12665-A (pending age of mount and set screw or no set screw) and can't fine M0100 that is all needed in order to replace the plugs.  Any advice on this?  Call AP?
5) I am going to replace the dovetail knob for the dovetail with a plug so it won't tangle stuff.
6) I am going to replace the clutch knob in the strategic location so it won't tangle stuff.

In summary, I am very fortunate to have picked this unit up.   I continue to be amazed by the quality of AP products.  This thing is probably 20 years old, but it has many of the same characteristics of current mounts and it is beautiful.  This will be my portable unit, or on second thought it will be my observatory unit in Montana.  It looks wonderful and the equipment was more than well taken care of.   It slews smooth as silk with the re-greasing and adjustment of the gear boxes.  The spur gears were immaculate and so was the main dec and ra gear along with the respective worms.   I feel that I am really starting to learn about the mounts, especially with the addition of this mount to my operational knowledge base.  Let me know if there is anything else I should do and thanks in advance for any replies. 

 
3.)


--
Karen Christen
Astro-Physics