Hi Werner,
I too have tried moving my AP1200 with cranial persuasion. I have
found that the hand controller is much more pleasant and accurate!
Mine happened when setting up the mount and during the adjustment I
had removed the foam that is usually wrapped around the weights and
end of shaft. In my case the new counterweight stop screw (with
sharp squared-off edge caught my forehead and machined a new aging
line into my head complete with crimson fountain. I nearly passed
out and luckily my friend administered first aide and after an hour
or so, could resume work.
Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@..., "werner.pribil" <werner.pribil@...>
wrote:

Hello !

Yesterday I had my first observing session with my AP 1200 (the
tracking rate at the main menu of the keypad was sidereal). The
telescope was pointed in eastward direction, so the counterweight

shaft

pointed down to the ground in a northward direction.
At the end of my session I picked up a book from the ground
and when I stood up I striked with my head against the safety stop

at

the end of the counterweight shaft. In the first moment I did not

know

what had happened and I had to sit down immediately. Now I have a
little bump on my head.
Can somebody tell me if this little accident can damage my AP

1200,

especially the worm and wheel adjustments of R.A. or the both

Dec.lock

knobs. Or is this collision no problem for the AP 1200.

Werner

Hi Hap,
Are you sure that it is a mirror lock? The Celestrons have a focus
lock, but to my knowledge, there is no mirror lock available. My
understanding is that it takes a significant amount of work to
install a mirror locking mechanism on a Celestron which includes
penetrating the back plate, installing screws that push on the
mirror mount, etc.
Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@..., "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@...> wrote:

I picked up the C11 used on Astromart, so I don't know the origin

of the

mirror lock/focuser. But it seems to work great. Once I get the

mirror in

a location where the Feathertouch has a good range with my camera,

I just

lock it and it seems to stay put OK.

Hap

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick K" <JunkMailGoesHere@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: New rig

Hi Hap,

Where did you get the mirror lock? I have had an external

Feathertouch

focuser on mine for years (not the knob replacement kind, the

full

blown 2" modified crayford type) and eventually gave up on

trying to

get the mirror to sit still. It has sat in a case ever since. I

have

always contemplated taking it apart and adding three bolts in

teh back

plate of the OTA, spaced at 120 degrees, with matching cups

siliconed

to the back of the primary that the mirror would draw back onto

with

enough force to hold it firmly yet not enough to distort. Never

had

the time to get around to it though. If someone has a decent

mirror

lock that actually works, it would be worth having a look at.

Rick.


--- In ap-gto@..., "Hap Griffin" <lgriffin@> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick K" <JunkMailGoesHere@>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 12:42 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: New rig

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@ wrote:

In a message dated 5/28/2008 8:50:04 PM Central Daylight

Time,

lgriffin@ writes:

So, here it is...all three scopes on the AP-1200. Believe

it

or not,

everything balances nicely and the mount tracks like a

champ with

over a

100-pound load. Gotta love the AP-1200 for shear quality!

http://www.machunter.org/hapsequipment.html

Impressive looking setup. Nothing wrong with a C11 for small

faint

galaxy

imaging.

Rolando

. . . other than the inevitable &*(%$ mirror flopping around!

Rick

This carbon fiber C11 has a mirror lock and an external

Feathertouch

focuser. It held focus for over three hours last weekend with

the

temperature dropping about 20 degrees.

Hap Griffin
www.hapg.org

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In a message dated 6/1/2008 6:03:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
capitoladude@... writes:

The dec oscillation problem with my AP900 is still ugly as ever.

Your tests of the Dec axis show nothing out of the ordinary as far as the
mechanics are concerned. If it takes 3 seconds for the Dec axis to reverse when
pressing the N-S button at 1x rate, then I would say that your gear mesh is a
bit loose. However, this should not cause wild swings back and forth in Dec.
Maybe I misread your test of the Dec axis and it does not take a full 3 seconds
to reverse. Of course, you would be the one to know since you were there doing
the test and I can only interpret what the result was.

Normally, wild swings are caused by a loop gain greater than 100% (i.e. the
correction commands sent to the mount are larger than the error). This will
result in limit cycling as you have experienced. You can see whether the loop
gain in Dec is too large by looking at the parameter numbers in the Dec axis. If
the parameter number after calibration is always smaller in Dec than RA
(calibration near the celestial equator) then chances are that your loop gain will
be larger than 100%. In that case the mount will always be asked to overcorrect
in Dec with the resultant oscillations.

Two ways to fix this, if that is the cause. 1) increase the parameter number
to be approximately equal to the RA number. 2) reduce the agressiveness in the
Dec axis below 100%. Keep lowering it until the axis becomes stable. Try
setting your Min move to 0 and Max move to 0.3 seconds and then adjust the
agressiveness until the axis is stable. Also be sure that the backlash adjust in the
keypad and in Maxim has been set to zero when you are guiding.

Roland




**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with
Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&;
?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

In a message dated 6/1/2008 11:08:31 AM Central Daylight Time,
hewholooks@... writes:

Here's the M92 that I got since solving the issue:
http://tinyurl.com/69edga

Excellent shot. Surprising how well a consumer camera does on deep sky.

Rolando


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking
with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&;?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

Hello all,

This is my first post on this group. I am on the waiting list for a
Mach1 and was wondering if I can mount it on my DM-6 tripod or am I
going to have to purchase another tripod when my number comes up?.

Cheers,
Richard

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 3/26/2008 9:10:44 AM Central Daylight Time,
chris1011@... writes:

One more thing: On the AP website under Technical Support, scroll

down until

you get to the heading: "Mount Troubleshooting - For additional
troubleshooting tips, check the mount and keypad manuals." Click

on: "Characterizing the Dec

Axis Motions (09-15-03) - PDF document." Follow the instructions in

this PDF

to determine whether your Dec axis is moving properly. The

instructions should

be plain enough for you to determine if you have a mechanical

problem in this

axis. If so, then we can go to the next step.

Rolando

Hi Roland,

The dec oscillation problem with my AP900 is still ugly as ever. Last
night after trying to image and failing because of the wild dec
fluctuations I did some testing and recorded some results as you had
suggested.

Again, my setup is AP160 refractor on AP900 GTOCP3 (purchased new in
2007), 100mm f/6 guide scope with Orion StarShoot DSI camera for
guiding, MaxIm DL software for guiding and image capture.

First, I characterized the dec axis motions following the procedure
on the AP website. I didn't use the track log, but here's what I
found in three separate tests. I started at a "middle" position of
X=16, Y=16, then used the North button to move the star to Y=8. then
I pulsed the South button in ~ 1 second pulses. the results show the
movement in the Y axis; X did not change.

Test 1 Test 2 Test 3
Start 8 8 8
Pulse 1 7 8 7
Pulse 2 7 9 7
Pulse 3 10 11 9
Pulse 4 14 14 12
Pulse 5 17 16 14
Pulse 6 -- -- 17

So, it took three pulses before the star started moving south in each
test.

Do these results suggest anything out of the ordinary?

Next, I did the following things. I have posted some screen shots in
the Files area that I will refer to. They're in a folder named AP900
Dec Tests, Files from Steve Peters.

I should also note that I polar aligned using the polar scope only.
However, the polar scope itself was aligned (usingt the thre tiny
setscrews) a couple of sessions ago AFTER I had done a drift
alignment, so it is pretty spot on. Guiding rate was 1x.

1. Calibrated on a star in the eastern sky.
2. Guided on a nearby star. With dec guiding turned on, the dec error
graph was flat for 5 minutes (I didn't take a screen shot of that).
As I've stated before, the mount guides well in the easter part of
the sky. It's in the west and sometimes the south where the
oscillation pattern occurs.
3. Turned off both dec (Y) directions in MaxIm. I began this at 410
time point (see DecOFFbegin_east.jpg). Almost 5 minutes later at 690,
the error graph is essentially flat (DecOFFend_east).
4. At time point 900, I turned both dec directions back on
(decON_east). After a liottle more than 3 minutes, you can see maybe
a half pixel of downward drift.

I realized after all this that you had said to turn on one Y
direction and see what happens. I neglected to do that, so I will
have to go back and do it if having that information would still be
useful to you.

5. Then I slewed the telescope to the western sky and checked "pier
flip," got a guide star and started tracking at time point 1440 with
dec guiding on(see decON_west). You can see the big +2 and -2 pixel
oscillations.
6. Turned both dec guiding directions off at 1800 (decOFF_west). The
dec error graph flattens out.

7. Then, to see if calibrating in the west helped, I calibrated on a
star, then guided on the same star. With dec guiding on, I started at
time point 2370 (decON_west_calib). Again, bad oscillation.
8. At 2670, turned both dec directions off (decOFF_west_calib). The
oscillation stops. There is a slight upward drift of 1.5 pixels after
5 minutes (decON2_west_calib).

So that's pretty much what I've been struggling every time out since
I bought this mount. I've tried numerous tweaks of settings, gear
mesh adjustment, consulting with my imaging friends, etc., all to no
avail. Let me know your thoughts.

Next weekend I may have an opportunity to swap my mount for a
friend's AP900. The rest of my system would be the same, so I will
see if there's any difference in dec behavior using his mount.
Another test I could do (on a different night) would be to try a
different guide camera. And of course I could try a different guiding
program, such as PHD Guiding (although that program doesn't have an
error graph, just a numerical tracking log, I believe).

I will be interested in your comments on the above tests and what you
suggest I try next to get the dec to function properly.

Thanks,

Steve Peters

Hi Hunter,

That is really excellent.

Jerry


At 12:08 PM 6/1/2008, you wrote:

Thanks everyone for your advice with my flexure problems.

As you recall, I had gotten the new Mach1 and since the guiding was
so good, I could now determine that my elongated stars were flexure
and not the mount.

I was advised to junk my side-by-side saddle arrangement and so I
went piggyback with my ST80 on top of my C9.25 with some ADM rails
and rings. Frankly, I was worried about moving the center of gravity
out farther with all that scope and weight on the Mach1, but it has
not batted an eye. I didn't expect to rid myself of all the flexure,
since I was using the SCT, and maybe I didn't, but it's all but
disappeared.
http://hwilson.zenfolio.com/p782801820/

Now I have tiny little round stars, even with an SCT, thanks to the
great guiding and the advice from here.

Here's the M92 that I got since solving the issue:
http://tinyurl.com/69edga

Thanks again,

Hunter


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A Guide to Astrophotography with Digital SLR Cameras
http://www.astropix.com/GADC/GADC.HTM
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

glad the suggestion worked

only with rare exceptions have I seen a side by side work well enough to yield round stars.

I strongly recommend not using that configuration.

I have seen it work fine with a pair of FCT76 taks side by side... but they are short and have little polar moment of inertia

Thanks everyone for your advice with my flexure problems.

As you recall, I had gotten the new Mach1 and since the guiding was
so good, I could now determine that my elongated stars were flexure
and not the mount.

I was advised to junk my side-by-side saddle arrangement and so I
went piggyback with my ST80 on top of my C9.25 with some ADM rails
and rings. Frankly, I was worried about moving the center of gravity
out farther with all that scope and weight on the Mach1, but it has
not batted an eye. I didn't expect to rid myself of all the flexure,
since I was using the SCT, and maybe I didn't, but it's all but
disappeared.
http://hwilson.zenfolio.com/p782801820/

Now I have tiny little round stars, even with an SCT, thanks to the
great guiding and the advice from here.

Here's the M92 that I got since solving the issue:
http://tinyurl.com/69edga

Thanks again,

Hunter

Hello Werner and welcome to the AP-Counterweight/Shaft bump on the
head club! ;-)

I would be worried about your head more than the mount.

Mark

Hello !

Yesterday I had my first observing session with my AP 1200 (the
tracking rate at the main menu of the keypad was sidereal). The
telescope was pointed in eastward direction, so the counterweight shaft
pointed down to the ground in a northward direction.
At the end of my session I picked up a book from the ground
and when I stood up I striked with my head against the safety stop at
the end of the counterweight shaft. In the first moment I did not know
what had happened and I had to sit down immediately. Now I have a
little bump on my head.
Can somebody tell me if this little accident can damage my AP 1200,
especially the worm and wheel adjustments of R.A. or the both Dec.lock
knobs. Or is this collision no problem for the AP 1200.

Werner

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/29/2008 5:50:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
JunkMailGoesHere@... writes:

I have
always contemplated taking it apart and adding three bolts in teh back
plate of the OTA, spaced at 120 degrees, with matching cups siliconed
to the back of the primary that the mirror would draw back onto with
enough force to hold it firmly yet not enough to distort. Never had
the time to get around to it though. If someone has a decent mirror
lock that actually works, it would be worth having a look at.

Don't push on the mirror itself with the 3 screws. Push on the aluminum
backing plate that the mirror rests on.

Rolando

OK, I had a look at the few pictures I could find of a disassembled
C-11 and that ring is quite small other than for the tab that attaches
to the focuser. I could carefully mill out a bit of the lip material
at 120 degree spacings to provide a bit more of a landing spot and
then drill a shallow dimple in that flat spot for the tip of the bolt
to land into. The other option might be to machine and epoxy on a
somewhat wider ring to provide more surface area to work with.

Thanks for the idea. It certainly makes a lot more sense to push on
the metal.

Rick.

I picked up the C11 used on Astromart, so I don't know the origin of the mirror lock/focuser. But it seems to work great. Once I get the mirror in a location where the Feathertouch has a good range with my camera, I just lock it and it seems to stay put OK.

Hap

We have a place known as "Metal Supermarket" nearby that sheared the plate. I only had to do a bit of touchup with a file.

Hap

Thanks Jim, that is good to know.

Larry

--- In ap-gto@..., "jfellerone" <jfellerone@...> wrote:

I use pulse guide in a semi-remote situation. Primary uses are for
centering, changing rates, meridian offset, etc. I find it useful.
I also use The Sky, Maxim, CCD inspector, Photoshop, PemPRO,

Rbofocus,

VNC for remote control, and other software. Compatability is not an
issue if you have enough serial ports. If not you have to disconnect
One of the programs to use another.
Jim

--- In ap-gto@..., "Larry Phillips" <llp41astro@>
wrote:

Since no one responded to this message, should I assume no one is
using this software during automated imaging? Is there a better
forum to ask this question?

Larry

--- In ap-gto@..., "Larry Phillips" <llp41astro@>
wrote:

I am new to AP mounts having just acquired a Mach1 and am

wondering

how

I make use of Pulse Guide by integrating it with the software I

now

use. Could someone explain how to use Pulse Guide while

imaging?

I am

using Maxim, CCD Commander, FocusMax, and TheSky. Can I

integrate

the

benefits of Pulse Guiding with these? That is, still allow

Maxim

to

autoguide? Will there be any software conflicts. I understand

that to

use Pulse Guide and TheSky simultaneously I would need two

serial

connections. I also think I understand how to use it stand

alone

to be

able to more accurately track and to use the PC to control the

mount

rather than the hand controller. Thanks in advance for any

advice

you

may have.

Larry

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/30/2008 9:57:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
classicstone9474@... writes:

Hi Group, My plans this weekend is disasseble my telescope,and
counterweights & etc. and grease the mating parts of the RA/DEC.

No

problem here. However the Declination gears make a noise "click"

Just put a bit of grease on the spur gears in the motor box. The

clicking

sound is normal and may or may not go away with the grease. It has

no effect

otherwise.

Rolando

Thank-you for answering I will do it.
**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking
with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&;?

NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Group, My plans this weekend is disasseble my telescope,and
counterweights & etc. and grease the mating parts of the RA/DEC. No
problem here. However the Declination gears make a noise "click" and
while looking thru the eyepiece while slewing @ .25 & with the star
moving in the eyepiece it has a jerking motion. When I increase the
speed of the slew. (BY PUSHING ON BUTTON 6) The jerking goes away but
at the beginning i still hear the click.While I have this disassembled
I sure would like to correct this as well. Can anybody help me My
telescope is balanced and abot 6 months ago I did adjust the mesh of
the gears in both RA & DEC and also greased them. Hopefully nothing is
broke. Thanks,

I use pulse guide in a semi-remote situation. Primary uses are for
centering, changing rates, meridian offset, etc. I find it useful.
I also use The Sky, Maxim, CCD inspector, Photoshop, PemPRO, Rbofocus,
VNC for remote control, and other software. Compatability is not an
issue if you have enough serial ports. If not you have to disconnect
One of the programs to use another.
Jim

--- In ap-gto@..., "Larry Phillips" <llp41astro@...>
wrote:

Since no one responded to this message, should I assume no one is
using this software during automated imaging? Is there a better
forum to ask this question?

Larry

--- In ap-gto@..., "Larry Phillips" <llp41astro@>
wrote:

I am new to AP mounts having just acquired a Mach1 and am

wondering

how

I make use of Pulse Guide by integrating it with the software I

now

use. Could someone explain how to use Pulse Guide while

imaging?

I am

using Maxim, CCD Commander, FocusMax, and TheSky. Can I

integrate

the

benefits of Pulse Guiding with these? That is, still allow Maxim

to

autoguide? Will there be any software conflicts. I understand

that to

use Pulse Guide and TheSky simultaneously I would need two serial
connections. I also think I understand how to use it stand alone

to be

able to more accurately track and to use the PC to control the

mount

rather than the hand controller. Thanks in advance for any

advice

you

may have.

Larry

In a message dated 5/30/2008 9:57:26 AM Central Daylight Time,
classicstone9474@... writes:

Hi Group, My plans this weekend is disasseble my telescope,and
counterweights & etc. and grease the mating parts of the RA/DEC. No
problem here. However the Declination gears make a noise "click"

Just put a bit of grease on the spur gears in the motor box. The clicking
sound is normal and may or may not go away with the grease. It has no effect
otherwise.

Rolando


**************
Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking
with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

(http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&;?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bert Katzung" <katzung1@...> wrote:

VERY impressive, Anthony! Congratulations!!

Thanks Bert and Rolando!

Having nailed an exoplanet which leads to a dimming of the parent star by 13 mmags, the
next question is how much lower can I go and still capture such a transit. We have lots (!)
of exoplanets associated with reductions around 9-11 mmag and which I will pursue next.
If successful, we will raise the bar even further with other examples involving a 5-7 mmag
change in the dimming of the associated parent stars.

Having such a premium scope and mount really allows one to pursue projects which are
very aggressive in nature and seemingly beyond reach. Who would have expected a
"humble" 6.3" refractor detecting a 13 mmag change in the brightness of a star hosting an
exoplanet? Those actively involved with this kind work invariably use C14's (ex. Bruce
Gary, Ron Bissinger, Tonny Vanmunster) and, in one particular case, a 32" instrument
(Cindy Foote).

Anthony.

Bert

katzung1@...
www.astronomy-images.com
www.visionlightgallery.com/katzung/

----- Original Message -----
From: "ayiomamitis" <ayiomami@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 5:08 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] AP160-AP1200GTO: Exoplanet Busters!

Dear group,

I sat down last night to pursue the 175-minute transit of the exoplanet
HAT-P-5b in the
constellation of Lyra. The parent star, GSC 2634:1087, is characterized
with a magnitude
of 11.950 (v) and, with a transit depth of 13 mmag (ie. 11.950 pre-ingress
and 11.963
mid-transit), I was very apprehensive about a successful capture of the
associated light
curve. To make matters worse, my target was relatively low in the sky, for
my pre-ingress
sequence was with the parent star at 30 degrees altitude and a further
five degrees higher
at the onset of ingress.

Of course, my thoroughbred (aka AP160) showed its rich pedigree to its
fullest and made
child's play of the challenge at
hand:http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-Photometry-HAT-P-5-
20080528.htm .... and all of this is with a first-generation (and noisy)
ST-2000XM
camera.

I have another transit involving the exoplanet WASP-3b, also in Lyra, for
this Saturday
with a depth of 12.9 mmag and I hope to have results immediately
therafter. I must sit
down and identify an even more challenging target for my thoroughbred for
this evening
as well as tomorrow evening.

Thanks to Rolando and company for these incredible instruments!!!

Anthony.


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