Hi Ruben,

1. I have a bit of an orthogonality issue. Will this affect Polar
alignment? If so, I can swap for a scope with less orthogonality
problems with I align, but I would prefer to not have to rebalance,
etc.

No, orthogonality has no appreciable effect on the procedure.

2. One of my mounts now has an 12" LX200R on it. With the mirror
lock on, will slight mirror flop/sag interfere with polar align? If
so, I can swap it for a refractor for the align function.

No, it shouldn't either.

3. What FL is best for alignment, as I can vary with scopes or
reducers? I will be using either an ST10 or ST2K for the alignment,
and can use FL of 400, 600, 715, or 980 mm on refractors or 2250 in
the SCT.

The longer focal length of the SCT will magnify the drift, but the
refractors will cool off much faster in the winter months. Heat swirling
around inside an SCT or rising up from nearby objects can effect the
effective drift that PEMPro will measure. These heat eddies can act like
weak lenses and will change with time. That said I would recommend a
refractor for the kind of electronic drift alignment PEMPro is doing.

-Ray

Thanks Steve, Chris, and Bryon for your feedback!

-Ray

Hi Pierre,

As a test I've made the appropriate changes in Pulseguide to read/write in
the 0-360 range and I found that the firmware _is_ saving longitude
correctly - at least in Rev I of the firmware. I will try to also test with
the GTOCP2 box I have, maybe tomorrow.

-Ray

Hi Bryon,

The arrangement was between AP and CCDWare to allow PEMPro AP SE to be
shipped only with 900GTO's and AP1200GTO's. The Mach1 Goto wasn't announced
until much later.

-Ray

Thanks Ray,
I just purchased the Pempro2 upgrade and will try the polar align
feature when the weather clears. Three questions:
1. I have a bit of an orthogonality issue. Will this affect Polar
alignment? If so, I can swap for a scope with less orthogonality
problems with I align, but I would prefer to not have to rebalance,
etc.
2. One of my mounts now has an 12" LX200R on it. With the mirror
lock on, will slight mirror flop/sag interfere with polar align? If
so, I can swap it for a refractor for the align function.
3. What FL is best for alignment, as I can vary with scopes or
reducers? I will be using either an ST10 or ST2K for the alignment,
and can use FL of 400, 600, 715, or 980 mm on refractors or 2250 in
the SCT.

Thanks,
Ruben

--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

With PEMPro you should be able to (accurately) get to less than 1

arc-min in

about 10-15 minutes from the time you start measuring Azimuth

error. Make

sure you are using Build 36, which is the latest version. There

were some

important bug fixes that affected the altitude measurements. TPoint

will

take hours and you usually get different Polar alignment results

every run.

I haven't used MaxPoint for measuring polar alignment.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of stardoctor5
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 3:07 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Help needed - Polar alignment for dummies

Hi group,

I have some sort of mental block getting polar alignment. I can

get

to within 5 arcminutes or so of the pole with a polar alignment
scope, and have tried various refinements with a CCD camera
(including Roland's favorite in the AP mount manual), but still

don't

succeed because of ?poor othogonallity or plain stupidity.

I tried Polaralign max but have been confused by all the

parameters

that need choosing. I need a program like "polar alignment for
dummies."

How easy (and accurate) are programs like Tpoint, MaxPoint, and
Pempro 2.0 for alignment? I have tested Pempro 2.0 and had some
success but got messed up (I think) by mirror flop on my SCT. I
would like to get within 1 arc minute on my AP900 and AP1200

mounts.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Polar-challenged

Hi Ray,

Just a curiosity question about why PemPro AP version is not also
shipped with the Mach1? I'm purely visually but I'm sure some of the
ones looking into imaging with this mount might also benefit from the
AP version.

Just curious.

Bryon

--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

A short announcement...

If you are an owner of PEMPro Astro-Physics Special Edition (ships

with

900GTO and 1200GTO mounts) and would like to upgrade to the full

version of

PEMPro V2 please see this link:

http://www.siriusimaging.com/PEMPro/AP_Upgrade_Instructions.htm

Or if yahoo mangles the above link:

http://tinyurl.com/35b3z5

Merry Christmas!

-Ray Gralak

Hello Ray,

Just wanted to say "thanks" for the very generous offer. As PEMPro SE is
shipped free with our mounts, this is indeed a gift. Looking forward to the
added benefits of version 2!

Merry Christmas,

Steve



_____

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
Ray Gralak
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 3:50 AM
To: ap-gto@...; ap-ug@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Announcement: PEMPro AP Special Edition Christmas upgrade
offer



A short announcement...

If you are an owner of PEMPro Astro-Physics Special Edition (ships with
900GTO and 1200GTO mounts) and would like to upgrade to the full version of
PEMPro V2 please see this link:

http://www.siriusim
<http://www.siriusimaging.com/PEMPro/AP_Upgrade_Instructions.htm>
aging.com/PEMPro/AP_Upgrade_Instructions.htm

Or if yahoo mangles the above link:

http://tinyurl. <http://tinyurl.com/35b3z5> com/35b3z5

Merry Christmas!

-Ray Gralak

Hi Roland,

Last night I got a chance to try guiding again with the new 1200. I
disconnected the STV from my guide scope, FS60C, and instead tried the small
Starlightxpress SXV guide head I've had for years but never really had any
luck with, and used Maxim.

I left everything at default in Maxim, I did change the AP to 1x guide rate,
then calibrated. Got a nice small "L" and went off on 100 minutes worth of
LRGB on NGC891. I used 5 second guide exposures since there are few bright
stars near there. PEM was on.

My errors where .01-.03 and my stars came out very round and considering the
seeing, fairly small. (Imaging at 1.12 arcsecs image scale.) I compared
this to the same object I did the first night with this mount, using the
STV. Huge improvement in the stars.

So I learned that I must really have no idea how to correctly use my STV :)
And I have a hard time believing that my $300 guide head should be better
than my $2k STV, but proof is in the pudding. I know it works but I need to
learn the correct way to calibrate it I think.

I did mount the STV with E-finder and monitored the drive while imaging, and
it was jumping and spiking on the graph much more than the Maxim graph
showed, another sign it is chasing the seeing too much.

Bottom line is, anyone want to buy a used STV :)

Thanks for the advice,
Dean

PS, did I say I love this mount?? :)

Hi Ray,

Understood, but I would like to be able to use the keypad as well: it
is not practical to have a PC with PulseGuide running with me all the
time !
This issue must be corrected (and I am more and more convinced that
it is a plain keypad issue).
For PulseGuide, I assume that you will update it somewhere in the
future to tackle the range 0..360 as well.

Pierre

--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Pierre/others,

I have confirmed from the firmware author that the ranges -180 to

180 and 0

to 360 are both valid inputs to the controller. However he

indicated that

someone should try to validate that values in the range 180-360

point to the

same spot as the corresponding value in the range -180 to 180.

That said, if you are East of the GMT then I think you can use

PulseGuide to

initialize the mount and ignore what the keypad says (e.g, -X

degrees West).

The mount should be initialized with the right longitude to

calculate

meridian flip points, etc.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 3:05 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

I second your view.
Looking back at all tests made so far, I am wondering if the

problem

might be in the keypad itself.

I resumed some tests using the ASCOM driver only (to stick to the
range 0..360 as apparently AP is using this convention).
The sequence:
- start situation: keypad connected, autoconnect is NO, location

1

is E 005:50:00
- switch on, select location 1, check that get location from

mount

reports E 005:50:00
- start MaxIm, connect to mount with ASCOM driver, enter setup

and

get lat/lon: display shows E 4 10.00
- keypad: get lat/lon from mount: still at E 005:50:00
- ASCOM: set longitude to E 5 50.00 and click apply
- ASCOM: get lat/lon: still OK, E 5 50.00
- keypad: get lat/lon from mount: now at E 006:10:00

When looking at the ASCOM trace:
Gg response is
+355*50:00 (which is E 4 10)
then becomes
+354*10:00 (which is E 5 50)

So a possibility is that the error comes from the keypad, which
incorrectly sets and gets the longitude to/from the controller

for

eastern longitudes.

Which would mean that users E of Greenwich are not able to enter

a

correct location (in the controller sense) without cheating.

Who can tackle this one ?

Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I don't connect the handbox to the mount at all and it works

the

way I

described. I think in your case the hand controller is passing

the

longitude

to the mount, but the hand controller firmware has that bug.

As for the 0-360 range PulseGuide could allow that range. It is

one

line of

code to change. Normally -180 to 180 is what is used so I never

considered

0-360. If the hand controller firmware was modified to work

this

way then

everything should work as expected (again assuming no problems

with

negative

longitude in the control box firmware).

BTW, here is a link for longitude conversion I found:

http://www.dfanning.com/map_tips/lonconvert.html

<http://www.dfanning.com/map_tips/lonconvert.html>

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:30 AM
To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Ray,

I have autoconnect set to No and want to keep it as is; so

the

location is prompted at every power cycle, which - after

selection-

erases the value in the mount and sets it in the range

0..360,

which

PulseGuide cannot cope with (-180..180)

See also my reply to John W.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

Try reading back the value with PulseGuide after the reboot

instead

of with

the keypad. For me it comes back correctly. If it does for

you

as

well then

this sounds like maybe a change to the keypad software

would

fix the

problem... provided that the firmware isn't doing anything

whacky

with a

negative longitude.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:55 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

This is Rev L. CP3 (this is a brand new Mach1).
In my latest tests, I used PulseGuide and only PulseGuide

(1.30).

This is the exact sequence to show the value is not

retained

after

power cycle:
- set the longitude to W 6 50 via the keypad for location

1

- power cycle
- start PulseGuide and get Site Long: all fine
- set longitude via PulseGuide to E 5 50, then

click "send to

mount"

button
- observe that PulseGuide reads back the value correctly
- exit PulseGuide
- power cycle
- select location 1 via the keypad
- shown: W 6 50 ... too bad ...

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@>

wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I am using Rev I of the firmware (CP3) and the value

sent

to

the

mount IS

retained after a power cycle. Which Rev are you using?

Also, if there is a bug in the hand controller

firmware, it

may

be

wrong

reading as well as writing. If I use PulseGuide and

only

Pulseguide

to read

and write the Longitude looks correct with Rev I

controller

firmware.

Can you try a test using only PulseGuide to read/write

and

look

at

the

serial log?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:45 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

No: unfortunately, the value written by PulseGuide is

_not_

retained

properly after a power cycle if the longitude is East.
Last test I did was to set the longitude to W 6 50

then

change

the

longitude via PulseGuide to E 5 50, then click "send

to

mount"

button, then power cycle then select location 1 again

on

the

controller.
Then I inspected the longitude: back to W 6 50 - so

the

value

was

sent but not accepted.

I'd appreciate to have AP to check what is going on:

I am

now

thinking that the AP controller returns an incorrect

string

for

east

longitude when the Gg command is issued.

Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak"

<rgr@>

wrote:

Hi Pierre,

So it seems that the problem might be fixed by

changing

the

keypad

firmware

to write in the range -180 to 180 instead of 0-360.

I

think

because

Pulseguide writes in the range -180 to 180 the

value is

retained

properly

after a power cycle.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:12 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Chuck,

as the AP protocol is extending the LX200, I read

back

the

LX200

description

(http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > > >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf
<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > > > > )

This indicates the presence of the sign, and that

East

longitudes

are

negative (so -180 to 180 is the expected range).
The trace from ASCOM - and the log from

PulseGuide

both

show

a

value

near 360 (but wrong: 355*50 for E 5 50).
Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chuck

Faranda"

<mail_lists2@> wrote:

Okay, I guess the docs just left out the sign

desination.

Thanks Ray

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Gralak
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Hi Chuck,

Negative values work just fine in the test I

just

did.

-Ray

Hi Pierre/others,

I have confirmed from the firmware author that the ranges -180 to 180 and 0
to 360 are both valid inputs to the controller. However he indicated that
someone should try to validate that values in the range 180-360 point to the
same spot as the corresponding value in the range -180 to 180.

That said, if you are East of the GMT then I think you can use PulseGuide to
initialize the mount and ignore what the keypad says (e.g, -X degrees West).
The mount should be initialized with the right longitude to calculate
meridian flip points, etc.

-Ray

In a message dated 12/18/07 11:28:41 AM, dean@... writes:

Bottom line is, anyone want to buy a used STV :)

Thanks for the advice,
Dean

Dean:
No need to part with the STV.

When I moved from a ST-4 to the STV the learning curve was more than I
expected.
At first, with my AP1200GTO I was getting 'sine wave' oscillations. This was
with the efinder, which is why I got the STV in the first place.

I had to play with the available parameters to stop the displayed
oscillations.
Be sure, in the set up menu that you tell the STV what your 'guidescope'
aperture and focal length is.
The efinder is 25mm (2.5cm) aperture and 100mm (10cm) focal length.

The STV can be operated (calibration and tracking) either on Auto or Manually
configured.
I usually began with Auto and see how it looked. If the track graph showed
something I didn't like I would stop and configure it manually. Sometime Auto
was still better.

One way to tame oscillation due to seeing is to NOT have the STV make a
correction every time it makes an exposure. I sometimes have it correct only every
2, 3, 4 and even higher exposures.
Of course this depends on your exposure times. With the efinder I usually use
1-2 second exposure times.

I haven't followed all of your thread but would be happy to answer any other
questions.

Kent Kirkley



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

Ray & Roland,

I am VERY happy to see that AP and CCDWare have finally gotten
together on this issue - it's been a "gripe" of mine for some time.
I'm getting a Christmas preset early this year!!!

All this chat about pole alignment with PAM had me wanting to try
PEMPro... I never get the same results with PAM (it usually makes the
alignment *worse* on my 1200).

thanks & cheers,
Chris Curran

--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

A short announcement...

If you are an owner of PEMPro Astro-Physics Special Edition (ships with
900GTO and 1200GTO mounts) and would like to upgrade to the full

version of

PEMPro V2 please see this link:

http://www.siriusimaging.com/PEMPro/AP_Upgrade_Instructions.htm

Or if yahoo mangles the above link:

http://tinyurl.com/35b3z5

Merry Christmas!

-Ray Gralak

Hi Ray,

I second your view.
Looking back at all tests made so far, I am wondering if the problem
might be in the keypad itself.

I resumed some tests using the ASCOM driver only (to stick to the
range 0..360 as apparently AP is using this convention).
The sequence:
- start situation: keypad connected, autoconnect is NO, location 1
is E 005:50:00
- switch on, select location 1, check that get location from mount
reports E 005:50:00
- start MaxIm, connect to mount with ASCOM driver, enter setup and
get lat/lon: display shows E 4 10.00
- keypad: get lat/lon from mount: still at E 005:50:00
- ASCOM: set longitude to E 5 50.00 and click apply
- ASCOM: get lat/lon: still OK, E 5 50.00
- keypad: get lat/lon from mount: now at E 006:10:00

When looking at the ASCOM trace:
Gg response is
+355*50:00 (which is E 4 10)
then becomes
+354*10:00 (which is E 5 50)

So a possibility is that the error comes from the keypad, which
incorrectly sets and gets the longitude to/from the controller for
eastern longitudes.

Which would mean that users E of Greenwich are not able to enter a
correct location (in the controller sense) without cheating.

Who can tackle this one ?

Pierre

--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I don't connect the handbox to the mount at all and it works the

way I

described. I think in your case the hand controller is passing the

longitude

to the mount, but the hand controller firmware has that bug.

As for the 0-360 range PulseGuide could allow that range. It is one

line of

code to change. Normally -180 to 180 is what is used so I never

considered

0-360. If the hand controller firmware was modified to work this

way then

everything should work as expected (again assuming no problems with

negative

longitude in the control box firmware).

BTW, here is a link for longitude conversion I found:

http://www.dfanning.com/map_tips/lonconvert.html

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:30 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Ray,

I have autoconnect set to No and want to keep it as is; so the
location is prompted at every power cycle, which - after

selection-

erases the value in the mount and sets it in the range 0..360,

which

PulseGuide cannot cope with (-180..180)

See also my reply to John W.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@...
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

Try reading back the value with PulseGuide after the reboot

instead

of with

the keypad. For me it comes back correctly. If it does for you

as

well then

this sounds like maybe a change to the keypad software would

fix the

problem... provided that the firmware isn't doing anything

whacky

with a

negative longitude.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:55 AM
To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

This is Rev L. CP3 (this is a brand new Mach1).
In my latest tests, I used PulseGuide and only PulseGuide

(1.30).

This is the exact sequence to show the value is not retained

after

power cycle:
- set the longitude to W 6 50 via the keypad for location 1
- power cycle
- start PulseGuide and get Site Long: all fine
- set longitude via PulseGuide to E 5 50, then click "send to

mount"

button
- observe that PulseGuide reads back the value correctly
- exit PulseGuide
- power cycle
- select location 1 via the keypad
- shown: W 6 50 ... too bad ...

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I am using Rev I of the firmware (CP3) and the value sent

to

the

mount IS

retained after a power cycle. Which Rev are you using?

Also, if there is a bug in the hand controller firmware, it

may

be

wrong

reading as well as writing. If I use PulseGuide and only

Pulseguide

to read

and write the Longitude looks correct with Rev I controller

firmware.

Can you try a test using only PulseGuide to read/write and

look

at

the

serial log?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:45 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

No: unfortunately, the value written by PulseGuide is

_not_

retained

properly after a power cycle if the longitude is East.
Last test I did was to set the longitude to W 6 50 then

change

the

longitude via PulseGuide to E 5 50, then click "send to

mount"

button, then power cycle then select location 1 again on

the

controller.
Then I inspected the longitude: back to W 6 50 - so the

value

was

sent but not accepted.

I'd appreciate to have AP to check what is going on: I am

now

thinking that the AP controller returns an incorrect

string

for

east

longitude when the Gg command is issued.

Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@>

wrote:

Hi Pierre,

So it seems that the problem might be fixed by changing

the

keypad

firmware

to write in the range -180 to 180 instead of 0-360. I

think

because

Pulseguide writes in the range -180 to 180 the value is

retained

properly

after a power cycle.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:12 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Chuck,

as the AP protocol is extending the LX200, I read

back

the

LX200

description

(http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > > > )

This indicates the presence of the sign, and that

East

longitudes

are

negative (so -180 to 180 is the expected range).
The trace from ASCOM - and the log from PulseGuide

both

show

a

value

near 360 (but wrong: 355*50 for E 5 50).
Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chuck Faranda"
<mail_lists2@> wrote:

Okay, I guess the docs just left out the sign

desination.

Thanks Ray

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Gralak
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Hi Chuck,

Negative values work just fine in the test I just

did.

-Ray

A short announcement...

If you are an owner of PEMPro Astro-Physics Special Edition (ships with
900GTO and 1200GTO mounts) and would like to upgrade to the full version of
PEMPro V2 please see this link:

http://www.siriusimaging.com/PEMPro/AP_Upgrade_Instructions.htm

Or if yahoo mangles the above link:

http://tinyurl.com/35b3z5

Merry Christmas!

-Ray Gralak

PemPro 2 works good from the time I have used it. Not crazy about
the setup to get you there, but it works. I do know it comfirms what
PAM does.

The trick to PAM is not to use the Next button feature, it seems to
have issues from what I have heard. Many I have talked to came up
with this method.

1. Telescope Setup use Sky Control (assuming you are using TheSky)
2. Set slew to only 5 degrees.
3. If you are pointing east, slew west. If pointing west, slew east
4. You need the GSC 1.1

(from this point I assume you are pointing east

A)
Point the scope to a star in the east and get it centered (more or
less. Then Sync to the sky.

B)
Click start, and the scope will move 2 times and take 3 images. When
you get the results, click the stop button. The last slew moves back
to the starting star

C)
Now move only one axis, I usually start with AZ. If you moved too
much so that the same star is out of the FOV, put it back in the
center (more or less) using the Keypad, then sync on TheSky 6 again.

Run Pam again steps B and C until the AZ is within 5 arc minutes.
Then do the same for the Altitude.

When you are withing 5 arc minutes in both directions, select the
slew to 15 degrees. (this makes PAM work better but harder to use if
you are far off the pole) and make final adjustments with each axis

I get within 15 arc seconds on both axis in about 10 minutes once you
know how much to move the mount. If you need more help, e-mail me
privately and I can help you more. I have help setup 3 others with
PAM and they all get withing an arc minute.

Ray is right that each run in PAM will give a new result, but it is
only within 1 arc minute.

That all said, if you have PemPro 1.1 you might want to upgrade to
2.0, it does work very well. I just would like to see a better setup
so you don't have to wait so long for it to get dark. If you never
rotate the camera, then you only have to do the setup once.

dean





--- In ap-gto@..., "stardoctor5" <stardoctor5@...> wrote:

Hi group,

I have some sort of mental block getting polar alignment. I can

get

to within 5 arcminutes or so of the pole with a polar alignment
scope, and have tried various refinements with a CCD camera
(including Roland's favorite in the AP mount manual), but still

don't

succeed because of ?poor othogonallity or plain stupidity.

I tried Polaralign max but have been confused by all the parameters
that need choosing. I need a program like "polar alignment for
dummies."

How easy (and accurate) are programs like Tpoint, MaxPoint, and
Pempro 2.0 for alignment? I have tested Pempro 2.0 and had some
success but got messed up (I think) by mirror flop on my SCT. I
would like to get within 1 arc minute on my AP900 and AP1200

mounts.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Polar-challenged

--- In ap-gto@..., Richard Crisp <rdcrisp@...> wrote:

if you use drift alignment, then orthogonality doesn't matter.

Do you know if orthagonality effects alignment accuracy if you use
PoleAlignMax? (Assuming the orthagonality error is "minor" - a few arc
min at most)

Thanks in advance

Drew Sullivan
California

if you use drift alignment, then orthogonality doesn't matter.


stardoctor5 <stardoctor5@...> wrote:
Hi group,

I have some sort of mental block getting polar alignment. I can get
to within 5 arcminutes or so of the pole with a polar alignment
scope, and have tried various refinements with a CCD camera
(including Roland's favorite in the AP mount manual), but still don't
succeed because of ?poor othogonallity or plain stupidity.

I tried Polaralign max but have been confused by all the parameters
that need choosing. I need a program like "polar alignment for
dummies."

How easy (and accurate) are programs like Tpoint, MaxPoint, and
Pempro 2.0 for alignment? I have tested Pempro 2.0 and had some
success but got messed up (I think) by mirror flop on my SCT. I
would like to get within 1 arc minute on my AP900 and AP1200 mounts.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Polar-challenged

With PEMPro you should be able to (accurately) get to less than 1 arc-min in
about 10-15 minutes from the time you start measuring Azimuth error. Make
sure you are using Build 36, which is the latest version. There were some
important bug fixes that affected the altitude measurements. TPoint will
take hours and you usually get different Polar alignment results every run.
I haven't used MaxPoint for measuring polar alignment.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro

Hi group,

I have some sort of mental block getting polar alignment. I can get
to within 5 arcminutes or so of the pole with a polar alignment
scope, and have tried various refinements with a CCD camera
(including Roland's favorite in the AP mount manual), but still don't
succeed because of ?poor othogonallity or plain stupidity.

I tried Polaralign max but have been confused by all the parameters
that need choosing. I need a program like "polar alignment for
dummies."

How easy (and accurate) are programs like Tpoint, MaxPoint, and
Pempro 2.0 for alignment? I have tested Pempro 2.0 and had some
success but got messed up (I think) by mirror flop on my SCT. I
would like to get within 1 arc minute on my AP900 and AP1200 mounts.

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Polar-challenged

Seem to me that AP/firmware dev team needs to get a look now.
3 things to be address:
- allowed range (-180..180 or 0..360) for longitude
- Gg command returns for east longitude (355 50 for 5 50 ???)
- and more generally keypad to mount interaction (saving location to
mount/retrieving from mount ...

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I don't connect the handbox to the mount at all and it works the

way I

described. I think in your case the hand controller is passing the

longitude

to the mount, but the hand controller firmware has that bug.

As for the 0-360 range PulseGuide could allow that range. It is one

line of

code to change. Normally -180 to 180 is what is used so I never

considered

0-360. If the hand controller firmware was modified to work this

way then

everything should work as expected (again assuming no problems with

negative

longitude in the control box firmware).

BTW, here is a link for longitude conversion I found:

http://www.dfanning.com/map_tips/lonconvert.html

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:30 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Ray,

I have autoconnect set to No and want to keep it as is; so the
location is prompted at every power cycle, which - after

selection-

erases the value in the mount and sets it in the range 0..360,

which

PulseGuide cannot cope with (-180..180)

See also my reply to John W.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@...
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

Try reading back the value with PulseGuide after the reboot

instead

of with

the keypad. For me it comes back correctly. If it does for you

as

well then

this sounds like maybe a change to the keypad software would

fix the

problem... provided that the firmware isn't doing anything

whacky

with a

negative longitude.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:55 AM
To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

This is Rev L. CP3 (this is a brand new Mach1).
In my latest tests, I used PulseGuide and only PulseGuide

(1.30).

This is the exact sequence to show the value is not retained

after

power cycle:
- set the longitude to W 6 50 via the keypad for location 1
- power cycle
- start PulseGuide and get Site Long: all fine
- set longitude via PulseGuide to E 5 50, then click "send to

mount"

button
- observe that PulseGuide reads back the value correctly
- exit PulseGuide
- power cycle
- select location 1 via the keypad
- shown: W 6 50 ... too bad ...

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

Hi Pierre,

I am using Rev I of the firmware (CP3) and the value sent

to

the

mount IS

retained after a power cycle. Which Rev are you using?

Also, if there is a bug in the hand controller firmware, it

may

be

wrong

reading as well as writing. If I use PulseGuide and only

Pulseguide

to read

and write the Longitude looks correct with Rev I controller

firmware.

Can you try a test using only PulseGuide to read/write and

look

at

the

serial log?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 8:45 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ray,

No: unfortunately, the value written by PulseGuide is

_not_

retained

properly after a power cycle if the longitude is East.
Last test I did was to set the longitude to W 6 50 then

change

the

longitude via PulseGuide to E 5 50, then click "send to

mount"

button, then power cycle then select location 1 again on

the

controller.
Then I inspected the longitude: back to W 6 50 - so the

value

was

sent but not accepted.

I'd appreciate to have AP to check what is going on: I am

now

thinking that the AP controller returns an incorrect

string

for

east

longitude when the Gg command is issued.

Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@>

wrote:

Hi Pierre,

So it seems that the problem might be fixed by changing

the

keypad

firmware

to write in the range -180 to 180 instead of 0-360. I

think

because

Pulseguide writes in the range -180 to 180 the value is

retained

properly

after a power cycle.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com> ]

On Behalf Of phenrotay
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 6:12 AM
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Chuck,

as the AP protocol is extending the LX200, I read

back

the

LX200

description

(http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> >

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf>

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf

<http://www.meade.com/support/LX200CommandSet.pdf> > > > )

This indicates the presence of the sign, and that

East

longitudes

are

negative (so -180 to 180 is the expected range).
The trace from ASCOM - and the log from PulseGuide

both

show

a

value

near 360 (but wrong: 355*50 for E 5 50).
Pierre

--- In ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%
40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Chuck Faranda"
<mail_lists2@> wrote:

Okay, I guess the docs just left out the sign

desination.

Thanks Ray

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Gralak
To: ap-gto@...

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:ap-gto%

40yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Hi Chuck,

Negative values work just fine in the test I just

did.

-Ray