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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Nicholas wrote:
If you are having any issues at all with PHD2, slew high and near DEC 0 (for higher latitudes kind of split the difference to stay high) and calibrate each time. It takes almost no time. "Restore calibration" has screwed up way too many people. It works for observatories with fixed everything of course, but it is SOOOO easy to forget to calibrate after changes and end up with mystery problems. It will also clue you into new problems, like inadequate corrections from something slipping.
Run Guiding Assistant not turning off guiding, as then it does an analysis for you of a lot of considerations.
Really, it's best not to over think all this, the PHD2 guys have refined the simpler aspects of this over time. Following their path will usually get you close.
I'm running roughly with guide assistant recommendations now, and guiding at about 0.21" at 540mm on an AP1100, or 0.10 pixels. I love this mount, it just works.
Linwood
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Re: Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders
#Guiding
Roland Christen
Just a few minutes is all I need.
Roland
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew J <andjones132@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 5:49 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders #Guiding Thanks Roland. As soon as I get clear skies again I will post a screen shot of the unguided tracking graph.
Andrew -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
steve.winston@...
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 05:17 PM, nicholas wrote:
yes last night that is what I had done was uncheck guide mount output in the guide screen in the brain function. I also recalibrate by using the auto restore calibration in the same screenBoth of the logs you posted on the CN thread showed actual GA runs (it shows the GA findings in the logs at the end of the run). Did you also disable guiding in the brain? Did you reenable it later? And enabling auto-restore of calibration is NOT the same as recalibrating, in fact it's basically the opposite :). Again the logs you posted over on CN show the you did in fact do multiple calibration runs and are not just using the auto restore option (which reloads your previous calibration data and so is not the same as recalibrating). So neither of the above statements match what was in the logs :-/
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Re: Mach2 with TEC180 for visual
Roland Christen
Nice collection of scopes and mount.
Having a strong steel pier is of course the ultimate for stability. The ATS portable piers are probably the most solid piers you can get next to steel or concrete. I have one in our Hawaii observatory and will be installing a second one shortly.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 6:12 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual For a bit of perspective, I have had several AP mount and refractor combinations that have worked just fine for visual use. By "fine" I mean the ability to easily and accurately focus at high power without a lot of juggling in the image (interestingly, a small bit of slow back and forth in the image actually seems to make accurate focusing easier for me at times).
My Mach 1 with a Losmandy HD tripod was "good" with my old AP 178 F9, which is rather light weight for its aperture but a long moment arm.
My AP1100 with the HD tripod was a "very good" support for the 178 F9 but "ok to good" with the TEC 200ED (F9, and about 63 pounds fully configured with dovetail, aft ring with 60mm F8 finder, counterpoise weight system and bino-viewers)
My AP900 was VG to excellent supporting 178 F9 and G to VG with the 200ED (actually, I was very impressed at how well it handled the scope). But this was with the AP900 installed on a fabricated steel pier, filled with sand and bolted to a concrete pad.
My AP1200 is just flat out excellent with the TEC 200ED. Sure, if I bump it hard enough it will go through a couple of highly damped cycles, but its system "Q" factor is of such high quality, there is NO vibration when focusing even up to 500X. And honestly, it is the most satisfying visual scope/mount system I have ever used. It too is bolted down with the steel pier.
Our County Parks Department's observatory has a 220 F12 achromat riding on another AP1200 (again bolted to a sand filled steel pier). The OTA with all accessories and bino-viewer, tips the scales at 80 pounds and is a solid VG to E.
Now my experience has also been that for portable setups, the tripod and its coupling to the ground is at least as important as the mount itself when it comes to vibration.
I have attached some pictures of some of these examples.
Jeff
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:33 PM fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
The 1100 GTO would be a better option than the Mach 2 for the TEC 180 FL -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
nicholas
yes last night they were set to zero.
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
nicholas
yes last night that is what I had done was uncheck guide mount output in the guide screen in the brain function. I also recalibrate by using the auto restore calibration in the same screen.
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
W Hilmo
There are several ways to disable guiding.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I posted the steps that I did because I want to be consistent with Roland's messaging. As for how MnMo works, it essentially ignores any positional error in the guide star that exceeds the number of pixels specified. If the guide star moves more than 20 pixels after a 1 second guide exposure, then I doubt that the result would be useful anyway. If that happens, then we'll have to figure out what's happening and how to deal with it. I do have one other thought, though. I know that Nicholas has been testing with non-zero time lapse values in the camera tab. It's probably best to set that back to zero for this test. -Wade
On 10/11/21 4:43 PM, Peter Nagy wrote:
Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked).Well, after GA is done, won't Nicholas have to translate to appropriate MnMo settings for guide scope. I believe his guide scope is 160mm to 165mm focal length. I know how to translate but can Nicholas?
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Peter Nagy
Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked).Well, after GA is done, won't Nicholas have to translate to appropriate MnMo settings for guide scope. I believe his guide scope is 160mm to 165mm focal length. I know how to translate but can Nicholas? set MnMo to 20.00I think it would be best to uncheck the checkbox for "Enable mount guide output" under Guiding tab. But if running GA, guide output correction is automatically disabled. Peter
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
nicholas
thank all so much.
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Re: Mach2 with TEC180 for visual
dvjbaja
My experience with the Losmandy HD, folding tripod has been mixed. Much depends on the surface it resides. My own thoughts on mounts:
AP 180 f/7 on the 1200 mount was rock solid. 48" x 10" AP pier. Overall I would say the 1200 was the best mount I've ever owned. The same scope on the new 1100 and Losmandy HD folding tripod is only fair.. I would say that the limt of the mount/tripod combination was reached. Lots of high frequency vibration that takes about 1.5" to 2" to settle. A friends 155 f/7 on his 900 mount and 52" pier is very solid, vibration free. These are really good mounts. My 10" Mak Cass on the 1100 with Losmandy HD tripod (fully lowered), experiences some minor, slow vibration during focusing. But this seems to change if I am on a cement surface, or dirt surface. Dirt is worse. Long moment arm tubes are just hard to dampen, but a solid pier footing would really seem to help in a perminent location.
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Re: Mach2 with TEC180 for visual
Jeff B
For a bit of perspective, I have had several AP mount and refractor combinations that have worked just fine for visual use. By "fine" I mean the ability to easily and accurately focus at high power without a lot of juggling in the image (interestingly, a small bit of slow back and forth in the image actually seems to make accurate focusing easier for me at times). My Mach 1 with a Losmandy HD tripod was "good" with my old AP 178 F9, which is rather light weight for its aperture but a long moment arm. My AP1100 with the HD tripod was a "very good" support for the 178 F9 but "ok to good" with the TEC 200ED (F9, and about 63 pounds fully configured with dovetail, aft ring with 60mm F8 finder, counterpoise weight system and bino-viewers) My AP900 was VG to excellent supporting 178 F9 and G to VG with the 200ED (actually, I was very impressed at how well it handled the scope). But this was with the AP900 installed on a fabricated steel pier, filled with sand and bolted to a concrete pad. My AP1200 is just flat out excellent with the TEC 200ED. Sure, if I bump it hard enough it will go through a couple of highly damped cycles, but its system "Q" factor is of such high quality, there is NO vibration when focusing even up to 500X. And honestly, it is the most satisfying visual scope/mount system I have ever used. It too is bolted down with the steel pier. Our County Parks Department's observatory has a 220 F12 achromat riding on another AP1200 (again bolted to a sand filled steel pier). The OTA with all accessories and bino-viewer, tips the scales at 80 pounds and is a solid VG to E. Now my experience has also been that for portable setups, the tripod and its coupling to the ground is at least as important as the mount itself when it comes to vibration. I have attached some pictures of some of these examples. Jeff
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 5:33 PM fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote: The 1100 GTO would be a better option than the Mach 2 for the TEC 180 FL
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
steve.winston@...
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 03:12 PM, W Hilmo wrote:
stop guiding and set MnMo to 20.00 (you will need to set it in two places, one for each axis).This obviously doesn't disable guiding, and if there is a spike movement greater than 20 pixels, or the guide star drifts more than 20 pixels during the test then PHD2 will still issue a guide correction. The easiest way to get the requested data with guiding fully disabled is to just run GA, as Roland suggested earlier in this thread. It also means that he can ruin the DEC backlash test at the same time and grab those screen shots too.
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Re: Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders
#Guiding
Andrew J
Thanks Roland. As soon as I get clear skies again I will post a screen shot of the unguided tracking graph.
Andrew
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Roland Christen
Sounds perfect!
And if he can post the Dec backlash graph, it would further illuminate things.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: W Hilmo <y.groups@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 5:11 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Hi Nicholas,
I just took a look at the weather for the San Diego area, and it looks like the next 5 or 6 nights will be good for doing this test. Here is my suggestion: Set up with either of your refractors. Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked). Set the exposure time to 1 second. Point the scope at the star Alshain in the constellation Aquila. It's about 6 degrees north of the celestial equator and is a very easy to find, naked eye star that is a bit south of Altair. For that matter, Altair itself is only about 8.5 degrees from the celestial equator, but is so bright that 1 second exposures will probably saturate it. In a pinch, you could try Altair instead, but I prefer non-saturated stars, so you'd need an even shorter guide exposure. Once you have Alshain centered in the field of view, click on it in PHD2 and then hold the shift key down on your keyboard and click the "start tracking" icon. This will force a calibration. Once the calibration is complete, stop guiding and set MnMo to 20.00 (you will need to set it in two places, one for each axis). Click the "clear" button on the graph and then click the "start tracking" icon (without holding the shift key down). This will start tracking and begin building the graph that Roland wants to see. Let it run for 20 minutes. I believe that this will get you the information that Roland needs to see. I hope that this helps, -Wade (wadeh237 from Cloudy Nights) On 10/11/21 1:49 PM, Roland Christen
via groups.io wrote:
That one is no better. Unfortunately it is
cross contaminated. The RA should show the PE and the Dec
should show only drift with no PE. It appears that the
calibration is off by 45 degrees.
It may not even be calibrated at the
celestial equator, so it's not going to be accurate for RA.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO I found an earlier run that looks better:
The previous run was unguided data
There were significant number of failed
calibration attempts
Not sure what's going on with the previous
graph and so many difficulties with calibration.
It may be that you have a cable or connection
loose somewhere
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics Attachments:
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
W Hilmo
Hi Nicholas,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I just took a look at the weather for the San Diego area, and it looks like the next 5 or 6 nights will be good for doing this test. Here is my suggestion: Set up with either of your refractors. Configure PHD2 to use your main camera through the refractor and make sure that it is set for single star guiding (the "use multiple stars" checkbox must be unchecked). Set the exposure time to 1 second. Point the scope at the star Alshain in the constellation Aquila. It's about 6 degrees north of the celestial equator and is a very easy to find, naked eye star that is a bit south of Altair. For that matter, Altair itself is only about 8.5 degrees from the celestial equator, but is so bright that 1 second exposures will probably saturate it. In a pinch, you could try Altair instead, but I prefer non-saturated stars, so you'd need an even shorter guide exposure. Once you have Alshain centered in the field of view, click on it in PHD2 and then hold the shift key down on your keyboard and click the "start tracking" icon. This will force a calibration. Once the calibration is complete, stop guiding and set MnMo to 20.00 (you will need to set it in two places, one for each axis). Click the "clear" button on the graph and then click the "start tracking" icon (without holding the shift key down). This will start tracking and begin building the graph that Roland wants to see. Let it run for 20 minutes. I believe that this will get you the information that Roland needs to see. I hope that this helps, -Wade (wadeh237 from Cloudy Nights)
On 10/11/21 1:49 PM, Roland Christen
via groups.io wrote:
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Re: Mach2 with TEC180 for visual
fernandorivera3
The 1100 GTO would be a better option than the Mach 2 for the TEC 180 FL
Fernando
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Re: Mach2 with TEC180 for visual
fernandorivera3
Weight of the tube is OK but the main concern is moment arm & will the scope be exposed to breezy conditions along with careful balancing.
Fernando
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Re: Two videos about the AP 175 F/8 refractor
fernandorivera3
Nope. The beige color of the cover is on the OUTSIDE & the silver color is on the INSIDE. If you do it the other way around especially repeatedly you will destroy the inner protection provided by the cover.
The cheaper covers out there I think have the silver on the OUTSIDE & a medium green color on the INSIDE. Fernando
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Joseph Beyer
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the insight. I agree, the software has a lot of potential. My needs are definitely simpler than yours! Software that simplifies a number of routines the way the advanced sequencer does in a real plus. That said when I've had problems come up mid sequence it's not straight forward to shut things down then do a simple restart. Probably just a matter of time though. Joe
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Roland Christen
That one is no better. Unfortunately it is cross contaminated. The RA should show the PE and the Dec should show only drift with no PE. It appears that the calibration is off by 45 degrees.
It may not even be calibrated at the celestial equator, so it's not going to be accurate for RA.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO I found an earlier run that looks better:
  The previous run was unguided data
There were significant number of failed calibration attempts
Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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