Date   

My favorite image from the James Webb

Roland Christen
 


Detailed view of NGC 7319, a distorted barred spiral galaxy in Stephan’s Quintet, and its long tidal tail stretching out to the left of the image. Hundreds of more distant galaxies can be seen in the background.

A close view of a distorted galaxy and hundreds of distant galaxies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2022/07/first-images-from-the-james-webb-space-telescope/670489/

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Mach2 USB

Dale Ghent
 

On Jul 20, 2022, at 17:05, Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:

Cable build quality and length is what matters. Connector type really has no bearing in these issues.
Let me respond to my own post with a qualifier: mini- and micro-USB connectors are absolute trash and should never be used. USB-C connectors effectively replaces these two connectors in their role as a physically-compact USB connectors, and this is a Good Thing.

/dale


Re: Mach2 USB

Dale Ghent
 

Cable build quality and length is what matters. Connector type really has no bearing in these issues. But, since connection interfaces add impedance to the electrical path, you should certainly keep the number of cable extensions and adapters to a minimum. If your laptop is USB-C and you want to connect it to the USB-A port on the Mach2, then you should certainly get a USB-C to USB-A cable of not excessive length.

On Jul 20, 2022, at 16:48, ernie.mastroianni@... wrote:

In regards to the USB data throughput port on the Mach2, would a USB-C to USB-A cord have an advantage over the older-style USB cords? I have a newer Lenovo PC with a USB-C port. I'd like to connect my camera to my laptop through the Mach2 mount, but using the older style USB cords in this way has been touch-and-go at times.
Ernie Mastroianni


Re: Mach2 USB

ernie.mastroianni@...
 

In regards to the USB data throughput port on the Mach2, would a USB-C to USB-A cord have an advantage over the older-style USB cords? I have a newer Lenovo PC with a USB-C port. I'd like to connect my camera to my laptop through the Mach2 mount, but using the older style USB cords in this way has been touch-and-go at times.
Ernie Mastroianni


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 01:38 PM, Joseph Beyer wrote:
Being in Northern CA where the fog rolls in nightly then it heats up to the 90s during the day my Berlebach Planet moved a lot. For leaving the setup under cover for days at a time I’m now using an Eagle portable pier. Sitting on the same paver stones the Berlebach was setting on I only need to touch up polar alignment every week, if that.  With the wood tripod it was nightly. 
I think I'm becoming sold that is the culprit.  Just can't decide if the cure is worth it (since I guide, and alternatives that fit my nightly teardown plus portability need are few). 

Thank you.

Linwood


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

Joseph Beyer
 

Being in Northern CA where the fog rolls in nightly then it heats up to the 90s during the day my Berlebach Planet moved a lot. For leaving the setup under cover for days at a time I’m now using an Eagle portable pier. Sitting on the same paver stones the Berlebach was setting on I only need to touch up polar alignment every week, if that.  With the wood tripod it was nightly. 

Joe


Re: Eggy Stars with Polar Axis Correction

Bill Long
 

Actually Ray, the exposure time in the FITS header for the third bad frame tells when that frame was started. The change to the configuration was made roughly a minute prior. That should be close enough in terms of a timeframe.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 8:52 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 and Eggy Stars with Polar Axis Correction
 
For TSX, I have the all sky database installed. I'm not really sure what else I can do. I can make changes and note the timeframe to correlate that to the logs. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 and Eggy Stars with Polar Axis Correction
 
Bill,

> I am sorry, but this is not a coincidence. It has happened now 6 nights in a row (imaging nights, that is, not
> calendar nights) and the same fix immediately solves the problem. I get the design intent and expectations, but
> something is not right here.

Are you using this for plate solving, or the database that comes with SkyX?

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bisque.com%2Fproduct%2Ftheskyx-pro-database-add-on%2F&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cac4da6495192435cf4df08da6a5373e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637939203904775875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=y3Dt7jl%2FQVMR11o2rvOEtFODad8j0qsMgydHVYgN%2BYA%3D&amp;reserved=0

> More logs, new FITS here: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fsh%2F4sruc4u7644d8kc%2FAACPhhdWJeaR5tY3AbgXcGQra%3Fdl%3D0&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cac4da6495192435cf4df08da6a5373e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637939203904775875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=goTe9JYJa%2BiX7qAQkSEWGH5UC6d1jnMG7uwnwAgvk%2Bo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> I am sorry, but this is not a coincidence. It has happened now 6 nights in a row (imaging nights, that is, not
> calendar nights) and the same fix immediately solves the problem. I get the design intent and expectations, but
> something is not right here.

Your log files are not helping unless you include the time when you turned off or on the polar alignment checkboxes within a few minutes. There is too much data to scroll through without a time of day value.

And let's be clear since you confirmed that the tracking rate in the UI does not change. The only way that APCC could be responsible is if APCC sent a different tracking rate to the mount and the value read back from the mount was not displayed correctly. Is that a fair statement?

-Ray







Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

Eric Weiner
 

I love my Eagle tripod. Rock solid. Superb craftsmanship.


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

W Hilmo
 

Yup.  That's what I am saying.

It's not a matter of courage.  If I couldn't find a way to image in the wind, I wouldn't be able to image at all.  It helps that I'm using an AP1600 with encoders, and only carrying an AP130GTX.  It also helps that my seeing here is not awesome.  If my stars were much tighter, I'd end up tossing more of them.

When I build the observatory, it would ideally be a dome with shutters, since I think that's the most robust design for the wind.  What I really want, though, is a roll-off roof with two piers, one for imaging and one for visual.

-Wade

On 7/20/22 9:21 AM, Brian Valente wrote:

Wade - are you saying you are imaging in 30mph winds, and then only throwing out 10%?

you are far more courageous than I 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 9:18 AM W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:
I live in an area of high wind.  I will eventually have a permanent observatory, but life keeps getting in the way of that project.

My original setup at this site was an AP1600-AE on an AP portable field pier.  I set 6" plywood squares on the ground, and set the feet of the pier on top of them.  That setup has worked for me in remote (low wind) environments for a long time, so I thought it would be fine here.  It was not - not even close.  Imaging either guided or unguided was awful.  I rarely got round stars.

I tried setting up a wind block, and that helped a whole lot, but eventually the wind block succumbed to the wind when a significant gust ripped the anchors out and the wind block blew across the field, shedding parts (and tipping the mount over on it's departure).  It was a really serious wind gust.  I know of two local observatories that lost their roofs on that day.

So I gave up on a temporary wind block and tried to stabilize the pier by filling it with sand bags.  That actually helped, but I was still throwing out about half of my subs.

I few weeks ago, I picked up a used AP1100-AEL with an ATS pier.  I'd heard good things about the stability of ATS piers, so I plopped down some more plywood squares and set it up.  The results were awful, just as bad as I'd originally seen when I first moved here.  Based on reports I've heard on the ATS piers (including Roland's results in the wind with his 17" scope), I decided that the common variable was the plywood squares.

So my latest attempt was to eliminate the plywood squares under the AP1600.  I had a different number of squares under each pier foot, to bring the pier close to level.  So I picked up some 12" x 12" by 2" pavers.  I dug holes in the appropriate spots that were deep enough that I could make the pavers level with each other, plus some extra depth.  I then filled the holes with packed sand and set the pavers into that, so that they are level with each other.

The combination of pavers, plus sand bags in the pier, with the pier directly on the pavers is getting very close to acceptable.  We've had winds for most of the last week that were 30ish mph with gusts, and I probably have to toss about 10% of the subs or so, which is the best results I've had so far.

I may experiment with vibration absorbing material under the pier feet, but I no longer think that vibration is my problem.  I am guessing that the 10% of subs that are problematic are happening during extra strong gusts.

I am heading off to a star party next week with the AP1100-AEL and the ATS pier.  When I get back, I'll probably make a spot for it with the same paver arrangement that's working well for the 1600.  I have a couple of different options for attachments to the feet on the ATS pier, so that will be my platform for experimenting with anti vibration materials.

The moral to the story, at least to me, is that a stable platform starts at (actually, under) the ground and goes up.  Oh, and I am done with using wood, anywhere, in supporting the rig.

-Wade

On 7/20/22 8:44 AM, Roland Christen via groups.io wrote:

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.
I stopped using wood tripods when testing mounts here at the observatory. Wood does move with temperature and humidity. It also twists and flexes and changes the polar alignment thruout the night. When I put my Mach2 on the Eagle tripod, that all went away.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2022 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] DEC Arc Model drift question

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:30 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Yes, the mount could settle and you probably could not tell that it had. It doesn't take very much to throw off alignment by an arc-minute. Even cement piers can move when the ground swells or contracts from moisture or heat.
I'm in an area not prone to sinkholes, though there are many other hazards - usually involving naked crackers and meth, sometimes with alligators.   But so far they haven't intruded at night.   (Anyone not familiar just google "Florida Man Story"). 

So I spent some time staring at the setup this morning when I brought it in, and it seems to me there are three likely possibilities: 

1) The ground moves
2) The wooden tripod is moving
3) The only thing I left a bit loose is the four altitude locks, they are finger snug not tight

The first is possible but I really doubt it because the indicated errors on the polar alignment are not consistent over time, if it was shrinking or expanding as the night went on, I would think it would have a more consistent direction.  But possible, just don't know how to test it.  The ground around here is all the same (even under driveway pavers, still sand/soil). 

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.

The latter -- well, not sure.  I leave them snug, then as I adjust I lower it and try to achieve alignment on an upward motion, but I do not crank down on the knobs, it (I thought) seems to hold OK since it has the adjustment built lifting it.  I guess it is POSSIBLE that I am introducing some overall slop, even side to side, by leaving them less than tight.  I can certainly change that next time out, but I am not hopeful - the fit between is very uniform, and there's a fair amount of weight (even with the light OTA) sitting on those bolts.  And I do have the azimuth very tight, working against each other to achieve PA. 

I'd welcome any other things to explore, but at the moment my best guess is the tripod. 

Though -- to a question I asked a while back -- this is a good example of why guiding is not ready to die.  This setup guides with excellent results, well under the C11's image scale even with a 3.7um sensor.  So I do not have a PROBLEM.  But I do have a mystery. 

Linwood

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics



--


Re: CP4 Power Connector Type

Peter Nagy
 

Thank you very much. It makes sense since Hirose-Connectors are made in Japan and the screws are metric. For this particular connector, it should be okay if the set screw sticks out a little bit if it’s a little too long.

Peter 


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:18 PM, W Hilmo wrote:
The moral to the story, at least to me, is that a stable platform starts at (actually, under) the ground and goes up.  Oh, and I am done with using wood, anywhere, in supporting the rig.
I had not really considered that the tripod may also be contributing to my issues with wind.  Our dry season here is always windy, and I have no shelter and by HOA rules will never really have one (I did try a makeshift one, and like you, gave up when it blew away once, fortunately doing no other damage). 

Now that might be a reason to consider a shift to metal.  I got the AE version to help with wind (and I think it does), but I'm still no good as it gets near 10mph (C11). 

Linwood


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

 

Wade - are you saying you are imaging in 30mph winds, and then only throwing out 10%?

you are far more courageous than I 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 9:18 AM W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:
I live in an area of high wind.  I will eventually have a permanent observatory, but life keeps getting in the way of that project.

My original setup at this site was an AP1600-AE on an AP portable field pier.  I set 6" plywood squares on the ground, and set the feet of the pier on top of them.  That setup has worked for me in remote (low wind) environments for a long time, so I thought it would be fine here.  It was not - not even close.  Imaging either guided or unguided was awful.  I rarely got round stars.

I tried setting up a wind block, and that helped a whole lot, but eventually the wind block succumbed to the wind when a significant gust ripped the anchors out and the wind block blew across the field, shedding parts (and tipping the mount over on it's departure).  It was a really serious wind gust.  I know of two local observatories that lost their roofs on that day.

So I gave up on a temporary wind block and tried to stabilize the pier by filling it with sand bags.  That actually helped, but I was still throwing out about half of my subs.

I few weeks ago, I picked up a used AP1100-AEL with an ATS pier.  I'd heard good things about the stability of ATS piers, so I plopped down some more plywood squares and set it up.  The results were awful, just as bad as I'd originally seen when I first moved here.  Based on reports I've heard on the ATS piers (including Roland's results in the wind with his 17" scope), I decided that the common variable was the plywood squares.

So my latest attempt was to eliminate the plywood squares under the AP1600.  I had a different number of squares under each pier foot, to bring the pier close to level.  So I picked up some 12" x 12" by 2" pavers.  I dug holes in the appropriate spots that were deep enough that I could make the pavers level with each other, plus some extra depth.  I then filled the holes with packed sand and set the pavers into that, so that they are level with each other.

The combination of pavers, plus sand bags in the pier, with the pier directly on the pavers is getting very close to acceptable.  We've had winds for most of the last week that were 30ish mph with gusts, and I probably have to toss about 10% of the subs or so, which is the best results I've had so far.

I may experiment with vibration absorbing material under the pier feet, but I no longer think that vibration is my problem.  I am guessing that the 10% of subs that are problematic are happening during extra strong gusts.

I am heading off to a star party next week with the AP1100-AEL and the ATS pier.  When I get back, I'll probably make a spot for it with the same paver arrangement that's working well for the 1600.  I have a couple of different options for attachments to the feet on the ATS pier, so that will be my platform for experimenting with anti vibration materials.

The moral to the story, at least to me, is that a stable platform starts at (actually, under) the ground and goes up.  Oh, and I am done with using wood, anywhere, in supporting the rig.

-Wade

On 7/20/22 8:44 AM, Roland Christen via groups.io wrote:

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.
I stopped using wood tripods when testing mounts here at the observatory. Wood does move with temperature and humidity. It also twists and flexes and changes the polar alignment thruout the night. When I put my Mach2 on the Eagle tripod, that all went away.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2022 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] DEC Arc Model drift question

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:30 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Yes, the mount could settle and you probably could not tell that it had. It doesn't take very much to throw off alignment by an arc-minute. Even cement piers can move when the ground swells or contracts from moisture or heat.
I'm in an area not prone to sinkholes, though there are many other hazards - usually involving naked crackers and meth, sometimes with alligators.   But so far they haven't intruded at night.   (Anyone not familiar just google "Florida Man Story"). 

So I spent some time staring at the setup this morning when I brought it in, and it seems to me there are three likely possibilities: 

1) The ground moves
2) The wooden tripod is moving
3) The only thing I left a bit loose is the four altitude locks, they are finger snug not tight

The first is possible but I really doubt it because the indicated errors on the polar alignment are not consistent over time, if it was shrinking or expanding as the night went on, I would think it would have a more consistent direction.  But possible, just don't know how to test it.  The ground around here is all the same (even under driveway pavers, still sand/soil). 

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.

The latter -- well, not sure.  I leave them snug, then as I adjust I lower it and try to achieve alignment on an upward motion, but I do not crank down on the knobs, it (I thought) seems to hold OK since it has the adjustment built lifting it.  I guess it is POSSIBLE that I am introducing some overall slop, even side to side, by leaving them less than tight.  I can certainly change that next time out, but I am not hopeful - the fit between is very uniform, and there's a fair amount of weight (even with the light OTA) sitting on those bolts.  And I do have the azimuth very tight, working against each other to achieve PA. 

I'd welcome any other things to explore, but at the moment my best guess is the tripod. 

Though -- to a question I asked a while back -- this is a good example of why guiding is not ready to die.  This setup guides with excellent results, well under the C11's image scale even with a 3.7um sensor.  So I do not have a PROBLEM.  But I do have a mystery. 

Linwood

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics




Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

W Hilmo
 

I live in an area of high wind.  I will eventually have a permanent observatory, but life keeps getting in the way of that project.

My original setup at this site was an AP1600-AE on an AP portable field pier.  I set 6" plywood squares on the ground, and set the feet of the pier on top of them.  That setup has worked for me in remote (low wind) environments for a long time, so I thought it would be fine here.  It was not - not even close.  Imaging either guided or unguided was awful.  I rarely got round stars.

I tried setting up a wind block, and that helped a whole lot, but eventually the wind block succumbed to the wind when a significant gust ripped the anchors out and the wind block blew across the field, shedding parts (and tipping the mount over on it's departure).  It was a really serious wind gust.  I know of two local observatories that lost their roofs on that day.

So I gave up on a temporary wind block and tried to stabilize the pier by filling it with sand bags.  That actually helped, but I was still throwing out about half of my subs.

I few weeks ago, I picked up a used AP1100-AEL with an ATS pier.  I'd heard good things about the stability of ATS piers, so I plopped down some more plywood squares and set it up.  The results were awful, just as bad as I'd originally seen when I first moved here.  Based on reports I've heard on the ATS piers (including Roland's results in the wind with his 17" scope), I decided that the common variable was the plywood squares.

So my latest attempt was to eliminate the plywood squares under the AP1600.  I had a different number of squares under each pier foot, to bring the pier close to level.  So I picked up some 12" x 12" by 2" pavers.  I dug holes in the appropriate spots that were deep enough that I could make the pavers level with each other, plus some extra depth.  I then filled the holes with packed sand and set the pavers into that, so that they are level with each other.

The combination of pavers, plus sand bags in the pier, with the pier directly on the pavers is getting very close to acceptable.  We've had winds for most of the last week that were 30ish mph with gusts, and I probably have to toss about 10% of the subs or so, which is the best results I've had so far.

I may experiment with vibration absorbing material under the pier feet, but I no longer think that vibration is my problem.  I am guessing that the 10% of subs that are problematic are happening during extra strong gusts.

I am heading off to a star party next week with the AP1100-AEL and the ATS pier.  When I get back, I'll probably make a spot for it with the same paver arrangement that's working well for the 1600.  I have a couple of different options for attachments to the feet on the ATS pier, so that will be my platform for experimenting with anti vibration materials.

The moral to the story, at least to me, is that a stable platform starts at (actually, under) the ground and goes up.  Oh, and I am done with using wood, anywhere, in supporting the rig.

-Wade

On 7/20/22 8:44 AM, Roland Christen via groups.io wrote:


The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.
I stopped using wood tripods when testing mounts here at the observatory. Wood does move with temperature and humidity. It also twists and flexes and changes the polar alignment thruout the night. When I put my Mach2 on the Eagle tripod, that all went away.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2022 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] DEC Arc Model drift question

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:30 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Yes, the mount could settle and you probably could not tell that it had. It doesn't take very much to throw off alignment by an arc-minute. Even cement piers can move when the ground swells or contracts from moisture or heat.
I'm in an area not prone to sinkholes, though there are many other hazards - usually involving naked crackers and meth, sometimes with alligators.   But so far they haven't intruded at night.   (Anyone not familiar just google "Florida Man Story"). 

So I spent some time staring at the setup this morning when I brought it in, and it seems to me there are three likely possibilities: 

1) The ground moves
2) The wooden tripod is moving
3) The only thing I left a bit loose is the four altitude locks, they are finger snug not tight

The first is possible but I really doubt it because the indicated errors on the polar alignment are not consistent over time, if it was shrinking or expanding as the night went on, I would think it would have a more consistent direction.  But possible, just don't know how to test it.  The ground around here is all the same (even under driveway pavers, still sand/soil). 

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.

The latter -- well, not sure.  I leave them snug, then as I adjust I lower it and try to achieve alignment on an upward motion, but I do not crank down on the knobs, it (I thought) seems to hold OK since it has the adjustment built lifting it.  I guess it is POSSIBLE that I am introducing some overall slop, even side to side, by leaving them less than tight.  I can certainly change that next time out, but I am not hopeful - the fit between is very uniform, and there's a fair amount of weight (even with the light OTA) sitting on those bolts.  And I do have the azimuth very tight, working against each other to achieve PA. 

I'd welcome any other things to explore, but at the moment my best guess is the tripod. 

Though -- to a question I asked a while back -- this is a good example of why guiding is not ready to die.  This setup guides with excellent results, well under the C11's image scale even with a 3.7um sensor.  So I do not have a PROBLEM.  But I do have a mystery. 

Linwood

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: CP4 Power Connector Type

 

Peter,

The screw is M2.5 x 2mm. McMaster has 3mm, so you might have to file off the end to shorten. Hope this helps.

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com
Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/astrophysicscorp 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Nagy
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 8:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] CP4 Power Connector Type

 

It seems the set screw for locking body of the Hirose-Connector easily get loose and finally my set screw fell off and no way to find it. Is the following set screw from McMaster-Carr the correct size so I can order it?

https://www.mcmaster.com/92311A088/

Thanks,
Peter


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 11:44 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
I stopped using wood tripods when testing mounts here at the observatory. Wood does move with temperature and humidity. It also twists and flexes and changes the polar alignment thruout the night. When I put my Mach2 on the Eagle tripod, that all went away.
Good confirmation to hear, I guess. I was surprised when I looked that the eagle is about the same weight as the planet, I thought it was heavier. But it shows recommended up to the Mach 2 only.

Plus, if I get another tripod I'd keep the planet.  Then I would have two.  I will have three OTA's, which will tempt me to get a second mount, and then a second imaging train to do two at once, separate NUC's... this is a death spiral where a $2k tripod will end up costing me $20k in additional "stuff", and more time on a wait list for a mount.  You are an evil man, Roland... evil....  :)

But more seriously - for the AP1100, there are not a lot of choices that fit my needs.  I want something light enough that (with mount off) it's easy to collapse and put in a SUV to go to a dark site, but expanded the legs need to fit through a 32" opening so I can move it in and out assembled for each night.  That latter knocks out ATS I think, the Losmandy is 2" too wide (it's remotely possible I could get it through the door with a bit of left/right shuffle on the handtruck). 

Maybe guiding is a good thing.  :) 

And embrace the shrink/swell/twist.

Linwood


Re: Eggy Stars with Polar Axis Correction

Bill Long
 

For TSX, I have the all sky database installed. I'm not really sure what else I can do. I can make changes and note the timeframe to correlate that to the logs. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 6:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 and Eggy Stars with Polar Axis Correction
 
Bill,

> I am sorry, but this is not a coincidence. It has happened now 6 nights in a row (imaging nights, that is, not
> calendar nights) and the same fix immediately solves the problem. I get the design intent and expectations, but
> something is not right here.

Are you using this for plate solving, or the database that comes with SkyX?

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bisque.com%2Fproduct%2Ftheskyx-pro-database-add-on%2F&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cac4da6495192435cf4df08da6a5373e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637939203904775875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=y3Dt7jl%2FQVMR11o2rvOEtFODad8j0qsMgydHVYgN%2BYA%3D&amp;reserved=0

> More logs, new FITS here: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fsh%2F4sruc4u7644d8kc%2FAACPhhdWJeaR5tY3AbgXcGQra%3Fdl%3D0&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7Cac4da6495192435cf4df08da6a5373e4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637939203904775875%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=goTe9JYJa%2BiX7qAQkSEWGH5UC6d1jnMG7uwnwAgvk%2Bo%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> I am sorry, but this is not a coincidence. It has happened now 6 nights in a row (imaging nights, that is, not
> calendar nights) and the same fix immediately solves the problem. I get the design intent and expectations, but
> something is not right here.

Your log files are not helping unless you include the time when you turned off or on the polar alignment checkboxes within a few minutes. There is too much data to scroll through without a time of day value.

And let's be clear since you confirmed that the tracking rate in the UI does not change. The only way that APCC could be responsible is if APCC sent a different tracking rate to the mount and the value read back from the mount was not displayed correctly. Is that a fair statement?

-Ray







Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

Roland Christen
 


The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.
I stopped using wood tripods when testing mounts here at the observatory. Wood does move with temperature and humidity. It also twists and flexes and changes the polar alignment thruout the night. When I put my Mach2 on the Eagle tripod, that all went away.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 20, 2022 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] DEC Arc Model drift question

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:30 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Yes, the mount could settle and you probably could not tell that it had. It doesn't take very much to throw off alignment by an arc-minute. Even cement piers can move when the ground swells or contracts from moisture or heat.
I'm in an area not prone to sinkholes, though there are many other hazards - usually involving naked crackers and meth, sometimes with alligators.   But so far they haven't intruded at night.   (Anyone not familiar just google "Florida Man Story"). 

So I spent some time staring at the setup this morning when I brought it in, and it seems to me there are three likely possibilities: 

1) The ground moves
2) The wooden tripod is moving
3) The only thing I left a bit loose is the four altitude locks, they are finger snug not tight

The first is possible but I really doubt it because the indicated errors on the polar alignment are not consistent over time, if it was shrinking or expanding as the night went on, I would think it would have a more consistent direction.  But possible, just don't know how to test it.  The ground around here is all the same (even under driveway pavers, still sand/soil). 

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.

The latter -- well, not sure.  I leave them snug, then as I adjust I lower it and try to achieve alignment on an upward motion, but I do not crank down on the knobs, it (I thought) seems to hold OK since it has the adjustment built lifting it.  I guess it is POSSIBLE that I am introducing some overall slop, even side to side, by leaving them less than tight.  I can certainly change that next time out, but I am not hopeful - the fit between is very uniform, and there's a fair amount of weight (even with the light OTA) sitting on those bolts.  And I do have the azimuth very tight, working against each other to achieve PA. 

I'd welcome any other things to explore, but at the moment my best guess is the tripod. 

Though -- to a question I asked a while back -- this is a good example of why guiding is not ready to die.  This setup guides with excellent results, well under the C11's image scale even with a 3.7um sensor.  So I do not have a PROBLEM.  But I do have a mystery. 

Linwood

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: CP4 Power Connector Type

 

I’ll check with the mount assembly department.

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com
Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/astrophysicscorp 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Nagy
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2022 8:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] CP4 Power Connector Type

 

It seems the set screw for locking body of the Hirose-Connector easily get loose and finally my set screw fell off and no way to find it. Is the following set screw from McMaster-Carr the correct size so I can order it?

https://www.mcmaster.com/92311A088/

Thanks,
Peter


Re: DEC Arc Model drift question

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:30 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Yes, the mount could settle and you probably could not tell that it had. It doesn't take very much to throw off alignment by an arc-minute. Even cement piers can move when the ground swells or contracts from moisture or heat.
I'm in an area not prone to sinkholes, though there are many other hazards - usually involving naked crackers and meth, sometimes with alligators.   But so far they haven't intruded at night.   (Anyone not familiar just google "Florida Man Story"). 

So I spent some time staring at the setup this morning when I brought it in, and it seems to me there are three likely possibilities: 

1) The ground moves
2) The wooden tripod is moving
3) The only thing I left a bit loose is the four altitude locks, they are finger snug not tight

The first is possible but I really doubt it because the indicated errors on the polar alignment are not consistent over time, if it was shrinking or expanding as the night went on, I would think it would have a more consistent direction.  But possible, just don't know how to test it.  The ground around here is all the same (even under driveway pavers, still sand/soil). 

The second is more interesting - I love the wood's deadness to vibration, but I do go from 50% humidity to 95% each night, and it sits there as the humidity rises further. It seems possible, despite being well sealed, that wood is expanding, moving, stretching or something.  Not sure hot to test that either other than buying a different tripod/pier.  I am curious if others using a Berlebach Planet, especially in nightly setup situations, have noticed this when shooting unguided.

The latter -- well, not sure.  I leave them snug, then as I adjust I lower it and try to achieve alignment on an upward motion, but I do not crank down on the knobs, it (I thought) seems to hold OK since it has the adjustment built lifting it.  I guess it is POSSIBLE that I am introducing some overall slop, even side to side, by leaving them less than tight.  I can certainly change that next time out, but I am not hopeful - the fit between is very uniform, and there's a fair amount of weight (even with the light OTA) sitting on those bolts.  And I do have the azimuth very tight, working against each other to achieve PA. 

I'd welcome any other things to explore, but at the moment my best guess is the tripod. 

Though -- to a question I asked a while back -- this is a good example of why guiding is not ready to die.  This setup guides with excellent results, well under the C11's image scale even with a 3.7um sensor.  So I do not have a PROBLEM.  But I do have a mystery. 

Linwood


Re: Recal when using an APPM Model

Dale Ghent
 

On Jul 19, 2022, at 17:23, Andrew Jones via groups.io <andrew.jones@...> wrote:

Hi Dale.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I thought it was odd that this option was included, which is why I asked. I can be quite confusing for users who don’t use TSX+T-Point. I know Sync’s can be a problem if not pointed at the object being synced, which is why the ASCOM converts Syncs to Recals by default. However, I was not aware of a situation where Recals are a problem.

Maybe now that the user sold his SB Mount, the N.I.N.A Devs can remove the option? Also, I hope going forward they stand their ground and not add something until a user can provide evidence that there is a problem. If the user insisted, then they should have provided evidence that with the N.I.N.A Syncs were making it through the TSX drivers. Just saying something doesn’t work should never be enough. Otherwise, 3 – 5 years from now N.I.N.A will be full of functions that don’t serve any purpose or the software becomes so convoluted that it because nearly impossible to understand and navigate, a.k.a. TSX. I have seen a lot of system become “garbage collectors” over time as “temporary” workarounds get added and never removed, or new functionality was added without the change request being properly vetted.
Yes, we tend to do a decent job at resisting some of the more unorthodox or unfit concepts that users throw at us. Being able to say "no" to requests and ideas is part of the game. Most people understand when we say no and explain why the request/suggestion is not a good fit or if there's a different way to arrive at what they want. But there are also those who double-down and get outright nasty because no one will not only not champion whatever it is that they specifically want, but also not feel inclined to spend the time to code it. We even had a person rail at us after they made a suggestion and it wasn't in the very next nightly build. Strange or unfit requests were actually one of the reasons we created the plugin system in 2.0. Have an idea that doesn't fit, or want to implement something, despite our warnings, that'll end up shooting yourself in the foot? Make a plugin for it and knock yourself out. There's no more need to taint the core app code with it.

As far as this specific option goes, though, it'll likely stay because who knows who is using it and removing it could spontaneously break people who do not have their TSX ASCOM driver set up to ignore syncs. You're not the only person to air some confusion about it, though, so I do want to clarify the wording around its name to get rid of the double-negative, as well as improve its tool tip so that it clear that its usefulness has a very narrow scope and relevancy to specific systems. Having it on (that is, with syncs off) also triggers an alternate target centering logic that calculates an offset to the target's coordinate to point at rather than throwing a sync at the mount and telling it to reslew to the target's coordinates. So it has also grown, for better or worse, to become handy for some debugging situations or some drivers that refuse a sync for whatever reason.


I know everyone is into Discord these days, but one thing that would benefit N.I.N.A is a Github Repo. Discord is fine when if I just need to get a question answered, it is less useful for people who need to submit bugs reports or new feature requests. The biggest benefit of using Github, is if that it kind of forces users to document their issues. Without proper documentation, including evidence that there is a problem, then the issue can be closed. Just my 2 cents.
This already exists and is linked off the main NINA webpage. The NINA project uses Bitbucket instead of Github. This was the project founder's preference at the time he launched it, and Bitbucket gives free CI/CD pipeline credits to open source projects which we use. The repo's Issues page is what you're looking for. It can be found here: https://bitbucket.org/Isbeorn/nina/issues/

Discord is what we use instead of running a mailing list or forums. It's easier to maintain, anyone can easily stream a screen share to demonstrate something, and we can integrate live tools such as the autofocus analysis bot. Yeah, it's primary purpose is for discussion. If you want to log a thought/want/idea/problem in a permanent way that can be referenced, putting it in an Issue on BitBucket is certainly the way to go.

/dale