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As usual, very valuable information for all of us. Thanks for your insights and explanations.
-- Dean Jacobsen Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ |
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Re: Hardware needs for APCC
#APCC
PS I should mention the computing requirements for APCC and imaging are fairly basic. You don't need a supercharged PC, tons of ram, or even a GPU for APCC and image acquisition Now image processing, that's a different ball of wax ;)
--
Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com |
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Re: Hardware needs for APCC
#APCC
Hi Kevin you might consider a small mini PC like a Beelink, Intel NUC etc. at the telescope that runs your imaging sessions You can use windows remote desktop to access it (yes, you can access it even with your Mac and iPad via the microsoft RD apps) for imaging automation you might consider NINA or sequence generator pro. Many DSLR/mirrorless users start with APT as software automation (astro photography tool, i think that's what it stands for) Brian On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 9:19 AM midnightsnacks <kevin.333.wood@...> wrote: Hello, --
Brian Brian Valente astro portfolio https://www.brianvalentephotography.com/astrophotography/ portfolio brianvalentephotography.com |
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Roland Christen
So the 0.26"/min (15.6"/h) should be the drift without any guiding (in my case with model applied) 1) The screen shot of the 4 hour run shows .077 arc sec per minute, 4.6 arc sec per hour, not what you wrote above.
2) The Dec data appears to be guided in both cases.
3) You made the model with the main scope and then tested the model with a different scope attached somehow to the mount with different rings etc. The model has in it not only the motion of the stars with atmospheric refraction, but also the differential motion of the main scope, which includes flex in the scope rings. The model applies only to the main scope, not to the guide scope which does not have the main scope flex. So just from this I would conclude that the test is invalid. Between a guide scope and main scope there is always differential flexure, which can easily be 10 - 20 arc seconds over 4 hours.
4) Even if there is no differential flex between guidescope and main scope, the Dec is sampled with 1 degree spacing, but the RA spacing is quite rough at 14 degrees. This will also impact the overall accuracy of the model.
I have checked the records of the tests we did with your mount and we measured a maximum error of only 7 arc seconds in the RA encoder over a 24 hour period, 0.29 arc seconds per hour of tracking error at the sidereal rate. Therefore the mount's contribution to any drift is essentially zero. Even if it was 10 times this value, any modeling will compensate for that, and it will never show up in the data.
The only way to test the accuracy of any model is to use the same scope/camera system to create the model and then measure the resulting tracking with that same scope/camera. The model can account for some differential flexure between the scope and the mount, but in a lot of cases the differential flex is non-linear and can be variable between one run and the next. This is especially true if the temperature changes, if the focuser is not fully locked down (flex in the focuser tube), if the mirror shifts differently between runs, etc etc etc. There are so many variables possible here. Having a model taken with one scope and then applied to another scope is invalid in any case.
Bottom Line: There will always be an order of magnitude difference between the tracking error in RA and the Dec, simply because the Dec doesn't move much at all during the 4 hours (1% error of zero = zero). The RA tracking error must be accurately modeled over ~70 degrees of sky motion, but the Dec perhaps only 1/2 degree of motion. The error budget in RA is an order of magnitude higher, so much finer spacing in RA is needed to get similar results. And finally, you cannot model with one scope and measure the result with another scope.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Fri, Nov 18, 2022 3:23 am Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Hi Roland,
the drift reported by PHD in the main panel is the drift "before" the corrections are applied, that is my understanding.
So the 0.26"/min (15.6"/h) should be the drift without any guiding (in my case with model applied)
Then, you can analyze the data in the guided form or, the "raw RA form" (extrapolated subtracting the guider corrections).
PHD gives you the two options. I am attaching the two analysis here ( the Raw RA is the one already sent before).
I can understand we are relying heavily on PHD data analysis, I am ready to collect new data you think are needed to run an unbiased analysis.
Thank you again,
Andrea
Il giorno ven 18 nov 2022 alle ore 03:05 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> ha scritto:
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics |
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Hardware needs for APCC
#APCC
midnightsnacks
Hello,
I am hoping for guidance from some fellow Astro lovers. I recently acquired a used mach1 with CP4 control and keypad. I would like to start my APCC journey but first, require the appropriate hardware. I am looking for input on what hardware setup I should use. I am looking for input on what other software I should incorporate. I am a mac user and haven't so much as looked at windows in 20 years. I currently do remote setup about 200 yards from my house. I usually sit in an auxiliary building and control via wifi. It gets very cold where I live. I do have ethernet running from my house to the building. I could remote from the comforts of home, this is likely something I will tackle in the future. Long term, I plan to build a small observatory. My equipment is as follows. Zwo cameras 183 mc-pro & 6200mm-pro. Zwo EAF. Zwo EFW. Zwo 120mm min guide camera. 2 x dew heater straps powered through DC output of Asiair+ Nikon Z6ii I have an iPad mini and M1 Macbook. Any words of wisdom to get the most out of my mount would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, Kevin. |
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Re: Setting up Rest API in APCC/ASCOM V2
j.vargas.machaj@...
Thanks for putting this together Brian.
From my own personal experience, the REST API seems to work better than virtual COM ports. I was experiencing some pretty bad lags with my remote desktop connection as well as intermittent issues with various parts of my setup which interfaced with ASCOM. I've used the REST API for the past two nights and everything seems more stable and faster, so for my part this seems to be a better solution. YMMV. ~ JVM |
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Re: Setting up Rest API in APCC/ASCOM V2
Anant
Brian - Thank you, very useful and timely!!
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Ray Gralak
Hi Andrea,
Dec Arc modeled or All Sky modeled: dec arcmodeled , 3arcs , dec spacing 1deg, RA spacing 14 deg for a total of 26 pointsAssuming you are also using Dec Arc Tracking with your "Dec Arc Model", using an RA spacing of 14 degrees is not going to provide the best Dec Arc tracking performance. As recommended, try something in the range of 3-5 degrees RA spacing. That will produce a denser set of data points. Also, the RMS and Max pointing errors for the East and West models only apply to the All-Sky model. The Dec Arc Tracking model is different, so those values do not apply to it. -Ray |
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Andrea Lucchetti
Hi Roland, the drift reported by PHD in the main panel is the drift "before" the corrections are applied, that is my understanding. So the 0.26"/min (15.6"/h) should be the drift without any guiding (in my case with model applied) Then, you can analyze the data in the guided form or, the "raw RA form" (extrapolated subtracting the guider corrections). PHD gives you the two options. I am attaching the two analysis here ( the Raw RA is the one already sent before). I can understand we are relying heavily on PHD data analysis, I am ready to collect new data you think are needed to run an unbiased analysis. Thank you again, Andrea Il giorno ven 18 nov 2022 alle ore 03:05 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> ha scritto:
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Roland Christen
RA is -0.26"/min (15.6/"h): this is measured by PHD. The picture you posted shows a max drift rate of 7 arc sec over 1.5 hrs (4.6/hr) and a secondary rate of 7 arc sec per 2.6 hrs (2.7/hr). See attached picture below.
From your answer below, with the guider running, you experienced a long term drift in the guide star of 15.6 sec per hour. That's impossible unless you were not guiding (you say you were guiding).
So we have 2 things that do not make any sense.
Rolando
 -----Original Message-----
From: Andrea Lucchetti <andlucchett@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2022 5:24 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPC & Mach2: Dec Arc model results and RA drift connection? #APCC #Mach2GTO Hi Roland, thank you for finding the time to help me.
Thank you again, You are probably the only dentist I can stand :-)
I collected the info requested through the terminal:
$RS# time: 0.337 Received 10#
$RA# time: 0.319 Received 40#
$RN# time: 0.318 Received 8#
$GOS# time: 0.325 Received 1110000000#
$GR# time: 0.329 Received +162° 37:59.5#
$GD# time: 0.358 Received: +01° 53:26.7#
data collected just after initialization at park3.
then the answer to the questions below:
Time period 4 hrs (yes, no): YES, 4hours 43' . I have also the run after meridian flip (3h 48') from the same session
Guided (yes, no): yes
Modeled (yes, no): yes
Dec Arc modeled or All Sky modeled: dec arcmodeled , 3arcs , dec spacing 1deg, RA spacing 14 deg for a total of 26 points
Guide exposure time (seconds, plus delay between exposures) 3seconds, 4 seconds delay
Guide camera with off-axis guider on main instrument (yes, no) No
Guide camera on separate guide scope (yes, no) yes, it is a takahashi Fs60
How are the cables attached from the camera to your computer? short cables from camera to USB hub and rig runner (mouted on top of OTA), then USB cable from here to Pc. Power goes from rigrunner through the mount
What is the minimum and maximum drift in arc seconds per hour in that guider: average DEC drift is 0.00"/min, RA is -0.26"/min (15.6/"h): this is measured by PHD. I am not sure what you mean for "minimum" and "maximum" drift
Can you show a guider graph of 10 minutes and 60 minutes unguided? no, not a recent one: I think I tried once and verified the PE was basically covered by seeing.
What I wanted to check with this thread is the effect of the model in RA (in DEC was clearly very good).
I understand it would be better to first check native PE before add complexity to the analysis, I can collect the 10/60 min runs next week if the weather cooperates.
Andrea
Il giorno mer 16 nov 2022 alle ore 02:43 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> ha scritto:
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics |
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Re: Heart and Soul and Supernova Mosaic- In Color!
Chris White
That looks great Kevin! Really nice FOV and framing. It's amazing how large the dynamic range is in this image. The heart is so bright compared to the SNR. I'm glad to see someone give some love to this gem! On Abin, I was the 5th person to image it (that I could find) so its pretty rare. Congrats!
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Andrea Lucchetti
Hi Roland, thank you for finding the time to help me. Thank you again, You are probably the only dentist I can stand :-) I collected the info requested through the terminal: $RS# time: 0.337 Received 10# $RA# time: 0.319 Received 40# $RN# time: 0.318 Received 8# $GOS# time: 0.325 Received 1110000000# $GR# time: 0.329 Received +162° 37:59.5# $GD# time: 0.358 Received: +01° 53:26.7# data collected just after initialization at park3. then the answer to the questions below: Time period 4 hrs (yes, no): YES, 4hours 43' . I have also the run after meridian flip (3h 48') from the same session Guided (yes, no): yes Modeled (yes, no): yes Dec Arc modeled or All Sky modeled: dec arcmodeled , 3arcs , dec spacing 1deg, RA spacing 14 deg for a total of 26 points Guide exposure time (seconds, plus delay between exposures) 3seconds, 4 seconds delay Guide camera with off-axis guider on main instrument (yes, no) No Guide camera on separate guide scope (yes, no) yes, it is a takahashi Fs60 How are the cables attached from the camera to your computer? short cables from camera to USB hub and rig runner (mouted on top of OTA), then USB cable from here to Pc. Power goes from rigrunner through the mount What is the minimum and maximum drift in arc seconds per hour in that guider: average DEC drift is 0.00"/min, RA is -0.26"/min (15.6/"h): this is measured by PHD. I am not sure what you mean for "minimum" and "maximum" drift Can you show a guider graph of 10 minutes and 60 minutes unguided? no, not a recent one: I think I tried once and verified the PE was basically covered by seeing. What I wanted to check with this thread is the effect of the model in RA (in DEC was clearly very good). I understand it would be better to first check native PE before add complexity to the analysis, I can collect the 10/60 min runs next week if the weather cooperates. Andrea Il giorno mer 16 nov 2022 alle ore 02:43 Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> ha scritto:
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Re: [ap-ug] Initializing APPM
Ross Salinger
If you're on Windows you can use the task manager (generally) to
bring modal dialogs to the front. Have not tried this specifically
with APCC, though. Rgrds-Ross On 11/17/2022 10:30 AM,
eckhard.voelcker via groups.io wrote:
I think from a functional point of view, APCC and APMM are outstanding pieces of software. |
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Re: [ap-ug] Initializing APPM
Roland Christen
You want APCC to be or have on-board a planetarium program so you can go to a particular star for drift alignment? You also want it to be an image capture program to be used with all cameras out there today?
he most missed feature for me is drift alignment similar to PEMPro. Being able to to polar alignment directly in APCC would be extremely nice. This is some basic functionality of a mount operation. I don't think the wizard as implemented in PEMPro is needed or even wanted. Just the ability to select a point in the sky (or use a suggested one) and watch the RA or Dec drift would be great. Why not use PHD2 to do drift alignment. It's all there already in that program.
Roland
-----Original Message-----
From: eckhard.voelcker via groups.io <eckhard.voelcker@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2022 12:30 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] Initializing APPM I think from a functional point of view, APCC and APMM are outstanding pieces of software.
There is a lot of clutter and it looks as if a lot of functionality was added over time to APCC. I am sure this can be nicely cleaned up. I would be great if some terms could be harmonised throughout APCC. I would like to add 2 suggestions: The most missed feature for me is drift alignment similar to PEMPro. Being able to to polar alignment directly in APCC would be extremely nice. This is some basic functionality of a mount operation. I don't think the wizard as implemented in PEMPro is needed or even wanted. Just the ability to select a point in the sky (or use a suggested one) and watch the RA or Dec drift would be great. Many people use APCC via a Remote Desktop Connection. When APCC encounters an error, it starts to blink, opens windows etc - often these are modal dialogs but the window is not in the foreground (RDC!). I have to kill APCC with the task manager, correct the issue and restart APCC. Streamlining some GUI concepts for Remote Desktop Users would be helpful. -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics |
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Re: Heart and Soul and Supernova Mosaic- In Color!
midnightsnacks
Hi Chris,
I managed to find some time with HB3 in early November. Six nights in total, all with sub-optimal conditions. The first three nights, we experienced dense fog, while the last three nights, we had a full moon. I stacked the Ha data, and it turned out okay. I see lots of future potentials. I shot a little Oiii, but the data was dirty, so I didn't bother including it. I will likely return to this in years to come and gather good Oiii and Sii plus better Ha and some LRBG, this project will likely require a better scope and darker skies. Here's a link https://www.astrobin.com/t7k9nq/ I hope you enjoy it, Kevin. |
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Re: [ap-ug] Initializing APPM
Eckhard Völcker
I think from a functional point of view, APCC and APMM are outstanding pieces of software.
There is a lot of clutter and it looks as if a lot of functionality was added over time to APCC. I am sure this can be nicely cleaned up. I would be great if some terms could be harmonised throughout APCC. I would like to add 2 suggestions: The most missed feature for me is drift alignment similar to PEMPro. Being able to to polar alignment directly in APCC would be extremely nice. This is some basic functionality of a mount operation. I don't think the wizard as implemented in PEMPro is needed or even wanted. Just the ability to select a point in the sky (or use a suggested one) and watch the RA or Dec drift would be great. Many people use APCC via a Remote Desktop Connection. When APCC encounters an error, it starts to blink, opens windows etc - often these are modal dialogs but the window is not in the foreground (RDC!). I have to kill APCC with the task manager, correct the issue and restart APCC. Streamlining some GUI concepts for Remote Desktop Users would be helpful. |
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Re: Setting up Rest API in APCC/ASCOM V2
Very useful, thank you Brian!
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Re: NGC 1961 Galaxy and Neighbors (AP900 + 8" f/4 Newtonian)
Dan_Paris
Thanks a lot Todd!
clear skies, Dan |
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Re: Setting up Rest API in APCC/ASCOM V2
Yes, Thanks Brian. I was also loooking to switch over from my current virtual ports. |
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Re: AP1200GTO - PEMPRO Read Factory PEC Curve
Bill Long
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Steven Panish <scpanish1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2022 5:19 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP1200GTO - PEMPRO Read Factory PEC Curve The curves go out of date in any case. I redo mine yearly. Also, the factory curves use a limited amount of data collection. You can let the run go much longer and get a cleaner result. It isn't a difficult process, although there is a bit
of learning in fitting a curve to the data.
Steve
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 11:35 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
PLEASE NOTE MY NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!!!
Due to Google eliminating cheap domain serving, Virginia and I are changing to regular gmail addresses. The old panishnet address will forward to this address for a short while, but please add the new address,
scpanish1@..., to your contact list.
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