Date   

AP1100 voltage

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

I have an AP1100 on the way.  Any moment now. 

I plan to use it in my back yard mostly, where AC power is available, but occasionally take it to a dark site with batteries.  I redid my batteries and wiring in prep, switching to powerpoles, and now have two set up, and the tripod has two 12V inputs; at home I will use two linear power supplies, and in the field two batteries on the same inputs; nice short wires, 10, 12 and 14AWG (in different parts). 

In recent notes I see indications that higher voltages are better (though that was a Mach 2).  I also recall George suggesting a dedicated power supply that is variable.  The manual says do not exceed 16v, and recommends higher for colder and heavier loads, which I will not have (50# or so max, S. Florida temps). 

Honestly I do not much care about faster slew speed, I just want reliability and stability. 

So my question is kind of a two-for: 

What voltage should I dial in on the adjustable power supply I am getting when using AC power?  Just normal batter voltage (let's say 13v)?

And depending on that answer, is there any point in my including a buck converter to get a bit more voltage from the battery scenario for occasional use?   (It's a group 24 deep cycle marine; it's plenty large that I should not even get to half capacity in a long winter night, so it should stay over 12.3v or so).

And yes, this is a minor detail but I have to DO SOMETHING while I wait.  :) 

Linwood


Re: [Keypad-V5] [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

Eric Weiner
 

Slew and Button or just Slew? I only get to select slew at 1800 at 24V. Button is limited to 1200. 



On Jul 13, 2021, at 18:18, Marj Christen <marj@...> wrote:



Eric,

18-24V will give you 1800x

12-17V will give you 1200x

 

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:00 PM
To: Reply To Group <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Marj,

 

I really should proof read what I type before I hit send.  Atrocious.  

 

This is likely just my misunderstanding of how the slew rates work.  There is a Slew Rate setting in both APCC and the Hand controller which allows a setting of 1800, but the button rates for both are limited to 1200 (not 1600, that was my mistake in the first message).  So the more correct question is why is the button rate limited to 1200?

 

Sorry about the terrible typing and presentation of my first question.

 

v/r

Eric


--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

Eric Weiner
 

Better than $1000! You have the USB2 version so you’ve probably already figured out the connection idiosyncrasies.

On Jul 13, 2021, at 18:05, Mike Dodd <mike@mdodd.com> wrote:

On 7/13/2021 4:45 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Mike, that $999 seller has 2 available and accepts offers. Make an
offer.
He accepted my $800.01 offer, with free shipping. Best I could do on short notice. I'll be a lot more comfortable with that than with two powered USB 3 extension cables.

--- Mike







Re: [Keypad-V5] [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Slew and button. You are limited to 1200x if you don’t use 18-24V

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: Keypad-V5@ap-gto.groups.io <Keypad-V5@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:31 PM
To: Keypad-V5@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Keypad-V5] [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Slew and Button or just Slew? I only get to select slew at 1800 at 24V. Button is limited to 1200. 

 



On Jul 13, 2021, at 18:18, Marj Christen <marj@...> wrote:



Eric,

18-24V will give you 1800x

12-17V will give you 1200x

 

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:00 PM
To: Reply To Group <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Marj,

 

I really should proof read what I type before I hit send.  Atrocious.  

 

This is likely just my misunderstanding of how the slew rates work.  There is a Slew Rate setting in both APCC and the Hand controller which allows a setting of 1800, but the button rates for both are limited to 1200 (not 1600, that was my mistake in the first message).  So the more correct question is why is the button rate limited to 1200?

 

Sorry about the terrible typing and presentation of my first question.

 

v/r

Eric


--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Eric,

18-24V will give you 1800x

12-17V will give you 1200x

 

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 7:00 PM
To: Reply To Group <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Marj,

 

I really should proof read what I type before I hit send.  Atrocious.  

 

This is likely just my misunderstanding of how the slew rates work.  There is a Slew Rate setting in both APCC and the Hand controller which allows a setting of 1800, but the button rates for both are limited to 1200 (not 1600, that was my mistake in the first message).  So the more correct question is why is the button rate limited to 1200?

 

Sorry about the terrible typing and presentation of my first question.

 

v/r

Eric


Re: 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

Eric Weiner
 

Marj,
 
I really should proof read what I type before I hit send.  Atrocious.  
 
This is likely just my misunderstanding of how the slew rates work.  There is a Slew Rate setting in both APCC and the Hand controller which allows a setting of 1800, but the button rates for both are limited to 1200 (not 1600, that was my mistake in the first message).  So the more correct question is why is the button rate limited to 1200?
 
Sorry about the terrible typing and presentation of my first question.
 
v/r
Eric


Re: USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

Mike Dodd
 

On 7/13/2021 4:45 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Mike, that $999 seller has 2 available and accepts offers. Make an
offer.
He accepted my $800.01 offer, with free shipping. Best I could do on short notice. I'll be a lot more comfortable with that than with two powered USB 3 extension cables.

--- Mike


Re: 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

Eric,

I don’t know the answer, but will check with my staff.

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Weiner
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 4:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] 1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

 

At the risk of getting verbally abused here in case I missed it in the documentation...  Why doesn't APCC-PRO or the V5 hand controller show a slew speed 1800 option when connected to a 24V source?  In my case it's the AC/DC converter that same with the mount.  I have a Powerex inline meter which confirms the line voltage is ~24.3 VDC.  Nothing else is powered off that supply.  It is simply a matter that if the CP5 gets < 24 VDC that it defaults to 1600, and if > 24 VDC defaults to 1800 but shows 1600 on the controller?

I'm sending this in parallel on the V5 Group.

Thanks,
Eric


1800 Slew Speed with Mach2GTO, CP5, V5 hand controller, APCC-PRO

Eric Weiner
 

At the risk of getting verbally abused here in case I missed it in the documentation...  Why doesn't APCC-PRO or the V5 hand controller show a slew speed 1800 option when connected to a 24V source?  In my case it's the AC/DC converter that same with the mount.  I have a Powerex inline meter which confirms the line voltage is ~24.3 VDC.  Nothing else is powered off that supply.  It is simply a matter that if the CP5 gets < 24 VDC that it defaults to 1600, and if > 24 VDC defaults to 1800 but shows 1600 on the controller?

I'm sending this in parallel on the V5 Group.

Thanks,
Eric


Re: USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

Eric Weiner
 

Mike, that $999 seller has 2 available and accepts offers.  Make an offer. They worst he/she can say is "no," or counter offer.  It was a different seller, but they accepted $475 for mine shipped.  


Strange Mach2 RA oscillation.

George
 

Wei-Hao,

 

As we discussed through private emails, the oscillation issue that you experienced is caused by the absolute encoders desperately trying to correct for the instability caused by substituting a customized and inadequate counterweight shaft in place of the shaft that ships with the mount.   The pendulum-like flexure created by multiple step-down threaded adapters to a very thin counterweight shaft is magnified by the counterweights set at the very bottom of the shaft.

 

 

When you restore the supplied counterweight shaft to the mount the problem will go away.    We take great pride and consideration of every detail when designing our mounts.   Please do not try to modify them.  

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of weihaowang
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 09:04
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Strange Mach2 RA oscillation.

 

Hi

I am at a  remote site for imaging.  This month I had used Mach2 several times without having any problems.  But today, it suddenly behaves abnormally.  The RA axis quickly oscillate for many arcseconds.  The attached image is a screenshot from PHD2.  As you can see, stars become highly elongated along east-west even under an exposure time of 1 second.  What puzzled me is that if I release the RA clutch knobs and only tighten them very very slightly, the problem goes away.  If I further tighten them with hand (not with any tool), the oscillation shows up.  The mount is well balanced.  I looked around and did not find anything (cables etc.) that can interfere the RA axis.

And as I am typing now, the problems goes away.  I will try to image now. However, I hope people here can provide some guess on what happened, so I know what to do next time this problem shows up to either solve it or diagnose it.

Many thanks.

Wei-Hao
--

Homepage:

http://www.asiaa.sinica.edu.tw/~whwang/

Astrobin gallery:
http://www.astrobin.com/users/whwang/

_._,_._,_

 


Re: Off Topic-NUC Computer

Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

I have used the USB to NUC path with zero problems for at least a year and a half now. Nothing wrong with the USB solution. 


On Jul 13, 2021, at 4:56 PM, Jeffc <jeffcrilly@...> wrote:

I would suggest using a static IP for the Ethernet connection at least when remote.  

While the CP5 supports Ethernet , it just seems to me USB (serial) is less problematic when it comes to possible glitches with DNS, ARP, DHCP etc. 
TBH , I’m probably missing something but I don’t see the advantage of Ethernet for the single connection to/from the controlling computer. 
I’ve used CP5 WiFi a bit with SkySafariPro and for sure it works , but likewise , unless there’s a compelling reason the simple USB seems reliable. 

Also, fwiw the I’ve never been a fan of “wifi extender” mode.   I suppose you are using wifi to bridge from the home wired net to the mount wired net , so the wifi is perhaps not “repeating”, which results in 50% bandwidth hit.   And the “bridge” is just needed to get from the RD client to the mount computer. 

Hopefully the computer <-> CP5 mount packets are routed locally (at the mount router) and are not sent over wifi to the main house router, then back to the mount “router”.   That’s one thing I’d also verify. 


On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:37 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:



For clarity, I use wired Ethernet over WiFi anywhere that I can.

 

For my setup, I have a “normal” home WiFi router with 4 Ethernet ports.  I use Ethernet wire to connect the mount to the router, and also to connect the NUC to the router.  At home, the router is configured to be an extender and joins my home WiFi.  In the field, the router is configured as a hot spot and runs the DHCP server and such.  This works fine, even with no internet connection.

 

There are two classes of problems that have needed the “emergency” monitor and keyboard.  The first case, is where the computer fails to boot and needs user interaction to either repair Windows or make a bios configuration change.  This is fairly rare, and there is usually follow up to determine the reason for the failure.  The second problem is that if Windows, for some reason, thinks that you are connecting to a new network for the first time, it will pop up a dialog asking the nature of the network.  Until you resolve the dialog box, the computer is not available on the network.

 

Again, it’s really rare, but it’s a complete show stopper when the machine doesn’t join the network and you don’t have a monitor and keyboard.  Most of my dark sky sites are remote enough, that a round trip to the nearest town that could provide spare computer parts are between 80 and 150 miles.  I also run several different rigs.  I do tend to bring spares and tools to handle most of the problems that might come up.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffc
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 12:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

I’ve seen this problem where Remote Desktop can’t find the windows 10 machine. 

I think it may be a windows bug (but could also be related to my home WAN router.)   

 

When I’m “in the field” I use Ethernet from the pier computer to a small WiFi router.  

I have not seen any problem there. 

 

At home I connect the pier computer via WiFi (there’s a UniFi setup with WiFi coverage over the whole backyard.).   And sometimes in that scenario win10 is not reachable.  

 

However I have a simple solution: I log into the web UI for UniFi (which I can do from anywhere) and issue a “reconnect” for the win10 machine WiFi.   This always fixes the issue.  

I used to bring a small HDMI monitor in the field  as a backup… but I never needed it.  I suppose headless is a bit of risk tho. 

 



On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:13 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:



“you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)”

 

It’s rare, but I have had the occasional problem where my imaging computer fails to connect to the network properly.  In that case, having a laptop doesn’t help.  For use when I am set up in the field, I bought a small (10”) HDMI display that runs from 12v and a keyboard with integrated track pad.  I keep them in my star party travel kit.

 

As I said, it’s rare, but it has saved me on a couple of occasions.

 

If you never travel, and have the option of borrowing a monitor or keyboard from another machine at home, then you wouldn’t need this.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

>>> ***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****

 

you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 1:10 PM Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Dale. Replies in between the message below:

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 2:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer


Two things pop out at me:

1) You have a 1200GTO which lacks the through-mount cabling, which means any cables coming off your telescope will be suspended in air for some portion and would present snag hazards and each be subjected to repeated flexing and wear for some portion of their length.

****I have eliminated the clutch knobs and most of what could cause a snag, usually not an issue. Wires have been enclosed in a mesh material used for vehicle wiring bundles.*****

2) Gosh, that's a lot of POS (plain old serial)

My own instinct and from working with mounts that have both thru-mount cableways and not, is to minimize that run of cables to the telescope and not run individual cables for each device up there.

****My concern about mounting the NUC on the telescope is balancing. While it does help a good deal on the length of run and the rotation, it still may limit the use of say a piggyback scope, think my Stowaway, on the RC. My wiring solution was to wrap the wires in several bundles depending on where they needed to go. The USB and Serial cables are in conduit to the control room now, at the mount they are in smaller bundles depending is they rotate or are stationary.*****

On top of the scope, I would place a power pole hub and USB hub such as a StarTech 7-port model. I would run only one 12V and one USB cable from the NUC up to those devices. The powerpole hub would distribute power, and the USB hub would connect your USB devices and, for your devices which have only RS232 interfaces, USB to serial adapters for each. This the lightens the cable harness that comes off the telescope. Because you would use discrete USB to serial adaptors for your RS232 devices, you don't need to worry about having enough RS232 ports.

****Not sure about those USB to Serial adapters as I've heard of many causing issues or simply not working. For power I've been using an IP addressable power switch which allows me to power only those devices as needed. For instance I don't keep power on the flat panel unless it's being used. With the STL-11000 I've had issues where I needed to cycle power to the camera due to a filter wheel issue. If I start the camera and get the error message usually just a disconnect and reconnect or power cycle will clear it. Never found the cause of that issue but easily resolved.****

With all data devices on your telescope occupying only one USB port on your NUC, you can use a second USB port for the 4-port StarTech ICUSB23241. That can connect the dome, boltwood, CP backup, and flat panel. You'll then have USB ports to spare.

*****With the 1 USB and all data....these new CMOS chips send a ton of data for each frame so I'd be concerned with a single USB port handling all the USB traffic. What keeps it from bottlenecking? I haven't tested the serial  device for multiple devices at this pint so not sure how that will handle the traffic as well****

I would not bother with trying to pipe the NUC's keyboard+mouse and HDMI video over to your warm room. It's already on a 1Gb network, so just use MS Remote Desktop to remote in from a laptop of desktop PC on the network. Your wired LAN and also have a WAP so you don't even need a hardwire network connection for your latop and can also use tablet PCs or iPads to remote into your NUC to run sessions.

***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****


If you want to at the pier, you can keep a small keyboard and mouse to plug in to the NUC when you need to. Keep a small and cheap HDMI monitor on hand to use with them.


> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:33, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>
> I would guess sit on the pier.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:26 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer
>
>
> Just to be clear, is this NUC going to ride on top of your telescope on the mount, or sit on/close to the pier?
>
>> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:11, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Gang,
>>
>> In the process of setting up a 12’ Astro Haven dome and moving my 12.5” RC and AP1200 mount from the ROR to the dome. In the process I’m contemplating replacing the observatory computer with a NUC to both shorten the cabling and have a more compact unit. I counted the ports as the computer is now configured and have the following needs:
>>
>> Serial ports=7 I have a StarTech ICUSB23241 4 Port Industrial USB to RS232 Serial Hub but that still leaves 3 needed ports (focuser, rotator, AP1200 backup, Dew Heater Controller, Flat Panel, Boltwood, and dome controls)
>>
>> USB ports = 4 including the one for the Serial Hub, Guider camera, Main Camera, mouse and keyboard
>>
>> Network minimum=1 then use the 8 port Gigabit switch I have ( 1 AP1200, 1 Computer network,  onsite pan cameras (3), etc.)
>>
>> Display port=1 HDMI or DVI
>>
>> Anticipating fiber optic internet connections in the next month or so I also ran Cat6 cabling for network switch and mount.
>>
>> So with that in mind the ports, mainly serial are what have me second guessing the NUC. I have, almost ready to ship out, a OnLogic NUC for a friends SRO system but that’s way more then I care to spend although it has all the necessary ports to hook everything up directly with hubs and so on. So based on this what would be a reasonable budget for what I’m looking for in a quality, reliable NUC? Even if I use the existing desktop computer I have now it will be without all the extender cables I’m using now as the computer is in the warm room 20’ away but the idea of a sealed fanless computer really appeals to me for this type of usage. Hence I’m looking for ideas to explore while this project continues, in of course, the hottest time of the year.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>













 

--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente


Re: Off Topic-NUC Computer

Jeffc
 

I would suggest using a static IP for the Ethernet connection at least when remote.  

While the CP5 supports Ethernet , it just seems to me USB (serial) is less problematic when it comes to possible glitches with DNS, ARP, DHCP etc. 
TBH , I’m probably missing something but I don’t see the advantage of Ethernet for the single connection to/from the controlling computer. 
I’ve used CP5 WiFi a bit with SkySafariPro and for sure it works , but likewise , unless there’s a compelling reason the simple USB seems reliable. 

Also, fwiw the I’ve never been a fan of “wifi extender” mode.   I suppose you are using wifi to bridge from the home wired net to the mount wired net , so the wifi is perhaps not “repeating”, which results in 50% bandwidth hit.   And the “bridge” is just needed to get from the RD client to the mount computer. 

Hopefully the computer <-> CP5 mount packets are routed locally (at the mount router) and are not sent over wifi to the main house router, then back to the mount “router”.   That’s one thing I’d also verify. 


On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:37 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:



For clarity, I use wired Ethernet over WiFi anywhere that I can.

 

For my setup, I have a “normal” home WiFi router with 4 Ethernet ports.  I use Ethernet wire to connect the mount to the router, and also to connect the NUC to the router.  At home, the router is configured to be an extender and joins my home WiFi.  In the field, the router is configured as a hot spot and runs the DHCP server and such.  This works fine, even with no internet connection.

 

There are two classes of problems that have needed the “emergency” monitor and keyboard.  The first case, is where the computer fails to boot and needs user interaction to either repair Windows or make a bios configuration change.  This is fairly rare, and there is usually follow up to determine the reason for the failure.  The second problem is that if Windows, for some reason, thinks that you are connecting to a new network for the first time, it will pop up a dialog asking the nature of the network.  Until you resolve the dialog box, the computer is not available on the network.

 

Again, it’s really rare, but it’s a complete show stopper when the machine doesn’t join the network and you don’t have a monitor and keyboard.  Most of my dark sky sites are remote enough, that a round trip to the nearest town that could provide spare computer parts are between 80 and 150 miles.  I also run several different rigs.  I do tend to bring spares and tools to handle most of the problems that might come up.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffc
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 12:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

I’ve seen this problem where Remote Desktop can’t find the windows 10 machine. 

I think it may be a windows bug (but could also be related to my home WAN router.)   

 

When I’m “in the field” I use Ethernet from the pier computer to a small WiFi router.  

I have not seen any problem there. 

 

At home I connect the pier computer via WiFi (there’s a UniFi setup with WiFi coverage over the whole backyard.).   And sometimes in that scenario win10 is not reachable.  

 

However I have a simple solution: I log into the web UI for UniFi (which I can do from anywhere) and issue a “reconnect” for the win10 machine WiFi.   This always fixes the issue.  

I used to bring a small HDMI monitor in the field  as a backup… but I never needed it.  I suppose headless is a bit of risk tho. 

 



On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:13 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:



“you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)”

 

It’s rare, but I have had the occasional problem where my imaging computer fails to connect to the network properly.  In that case, having a laptop doesn’t help.  For use when I am set up in the field, I bought a small (10”) HDMI display that runs from 12v and a keyboard with integrated track pad.  I keep them in my star party travel kit.

 

As I said, it’s rare, but it has saved me on a couple of occasions.

 

If you never travel, and have the option of borrowing a monitor or keyboard from another machine at home, then you wouldn’t need this.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

>>> ***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****

 

you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 1:10 PM Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Dale. Replies in between the message below:

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 2:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer


Two things pop out at me:

1) You have a 1200GTO which lacks the through-mount cabling, which means any cables coming off your telescope will be suspended in air for some portion and would present snag hazards and each be subjected to repeated flexing and wear for some portion of their length.

****I have eliminated the clutch knobs and most of what could cause a snag, usually not an issue. Wires have been enclosed in a mesh material used for vehicle wiring bundles.*****

2) Gosh, that's a lot of POS (plain old serial)

My own instinct and from working with mounts that have both thru-mount cableways and not, is to minimize that run of cables to the telescope and not run individual cables for each device up there.

****My concern about mounting the NUC on the telescope is balancing. While it does help a good deal on the length of run and the rotation, it still may limit the use of say a piggyback scope, think my Stowaway, on the RC. My wiring solution was to wrap the wires in several bundles depending on where they needed to go. The USB and Serial cables are in conduit to the control room now, at the mount they are in smaller bundles depending is they rotate or are stationary.*****

On top of the scope, I would place a power pole hub and USB hub such as a StarTech 7-port model. I would run only one 12V and one USB cable from the NUC up to those devices. The powerpole hub would distribute power, and the USB hub would connect your USB devices and, for your devices which have only RS232 interfaces, USB to serial adapters for each. This the lightens the cable harness that comes off the telescope. Because you would use discrete USB to serial adaptors for your RS232 devices, you don't need to worry about having enough RS232 ports.

****Not sure about those USB to Serial adapters as I've heard of many causing issues or simply not working. For power I've been using an IP addressable power switch which allows me to power only those devices as needed. For instance I don't keep power on the flat panel unless it's being used. With the STL-11000 I've had issues where I needed to cycle power to the camera due to a filter wheel issue. If I start the camera and get the error message usually just a disconnect and reconnect or power cycle will clear it. Never found the cause of that issue but easily resolved.****

With all data devices on your telescope occupying only one USB port on your NUC, you can use a second USB port for the 4-port StarTech ICUSB23241. That can connect the dome, boltwood, CP backup, and flat panel. You'll then have USB ports to spare.

*****With the 1 USB and all data....these new CMOS chips send a ton of data for each frame so I'd be concerned with a single USB port handling all the USB traffic. What keeps it from bottlenecking? I haven't tested the serial  device for multiple devices at this pint so not sure how that will handle the traffic as well****

I would not bother with trying to pipe the NUC's keyboard+mouse and HDMI video over to your warm room. It's already on a 1Gb network, so just use MS Remote Desktop to remote in from a laptop of desktop PC on the network. Your wired LAN and also have a WAP so you don't even need a hardwire network connection for your latop and can also use tablet PCs or iPads to remote into your NUC to run sessions.

***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****


If you want to at the pier, you can keep a small keyboard and mouse to plug in to the NUC when you need to. Keep a small and cheap HDMI monitor on hand to use with them.


> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:33, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>
> I would guess sit on the pier.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:26 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer
>
>
> Just to be clear, is this NUC going to ride on top of your telescope on the mount, or sit on/close to the pier?
>
>> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:11, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Gang,
>>
>> In the process of setting up a 12’ Astro Haven dome and moving my 12.5” RC and AP1200 mount from the ROR to the dome. In the process I’m contemplating replacing the observatory computer with a NUC to both shorten the cabling and have a more compact unit. I counted the ports as the computer is now configured and have the following needs:
>>
>> Serial ports=7 I have a StarTech ICUSB23241 4 Port Industrial USB to RS232 Serial Hub but that still leaves 3 needed ports (focuser, rotator, AP1200 backup, Dew Heater Controller, Flat Panel, Boltwood, and dome controls)
>>
>> USB ports = 4 including the one for the Serial Hub, Guider camera, Main Camera, mouse and keyboard
>>
>> Network minimum=1 then use the 8 port Gigabit switch I have ( 1 AP1200, 1 Computer network,  onsite pan cameras (3), etc.)
>>
>> Display port=1 HDMI or DVI
>>
>> Anticipating fiber optic internet connections in the next month or so I also ran Cat6 cabling for network switch and mount.
>>
>> So with that in mind the ports, mainly serial are what have me second guessing the NUC. I have, almost ready to ship out, a OnLogic NUC for a friends SRO system but that’s way more then I care to spend although it has all the necessary ports to hook everything up directly with hubs and so on. So based on this what would be a reasonable budget for what I’m looking for in a quality, reliable NUC? Even if I use the existing desktop computer I have now it will be without all the extender cables I’m using now as the computer is in the warm room 20’ away but the idea of a sealed fanless computer really appeals to me for this type of usage. Hence I’m looking for ideas to explore while this project continues, in of course, the hottest time of the year.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>













 

--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente


Re: Strange Mach2 RA oscillation.

Roland Christen
 

I will send you some instruction for the RA oscillation.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: weihaowang <whwang@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jul 13, 2021 9:34 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Strange Mach2 RA oscillation.

The problem keeps coming back.  I used two 12V power sources (a deep cycle battery and a power converter).  The result doesn't change.  The oscillation often occurs after a slew with higher speed.  Then it goes away after 2 or 3 minutes, and tracks OK.  Dithering slew with guide speed doesn't seem to trigger this problem.  

Please let me know what I can do.  There are clouds now, so I can't do meaningful imaging.  If possible, I can dedicate the night to solving this problem.
--
Homepage:

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Off Topic-NUC Computer

W Hilmo
 

For clarity, I use wired Ethernet over WiFi anywhere that I can.

 

For my setup, I have a “normal” home WiFi router with 4 Ethernet ports.  I use Ethernet wire to connect the mount to the router, and also to connect the NUC to the router.  At home, the router is configured to be an extender and joins my home WiFi.  In the field, the router is configured as a hot spot and runs the DHCP server and such.  This works fine, even with no internet connection.

 

There are two classes of problems that have needed the “emergency” monitor and keyboard.  The first case, is where the computer fails to boot and needs user interaction to either repair Windows or make a bios configuration change.  This is fairly rare, and there is usually follow up to determine the reason for the failure.  The second problem is that if Windows, for some reason, thinks that you are connecting to a new network for the first time, it will pop up a dialog asking the nature of the network.  Until you resolve the dialog box, the computer is not available on the network.

 

Again, it’s really rare, but it’s a complete show stopper when the machine doesn’t join the network and you don’t have a monitor and keyboard.  Most of my dark sky sites are remote enough, that a round trip to the nearest town that could provide spare computer parts are between 80 and 150 miles.  I also run several different rigs.  I do tend to bring spares and tools to handle most of the problems that might come up.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffc
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 12:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

I’ve seen this problem where Remote Desktop can’t find the windows 10 machine. 

I think it may be a windows bug (but could also be related to my home WAN router.)   

 

When I’m “in the field” I use Ethernet from the pier computer to a small WiFi router.  

I have not seen any problem there. 

 

At home I connect the pier computer via WiFi (there’s a UniFi setup with WiFi coverage over the whole backyard.).   And sometimes in that scenario win10 is not reachable.  

 

However I have a simple solution: I log into the web UI for UniFi (which I can do from anywhere) and issue a “reconnect” for the win10 machine WiFi.   This always fixes the issue.  

I used to bring a small HDMI monitor in the field  as a backup… but I never needed it.  I suppose headless is a bit of risk tho. 

 



On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:13 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:



“you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)”

 

It’s rare, but I have had the occasional problem where my imaging computer fails to connect to the network properly.  In that case, having a laptop doesn’t help.  For use when I am set up in the field, I bought a small (10”) HDMI display that runs from 12v and a keyboard with integrated track pad.  I keep them in my star party travel kit.

 

As I said, it’s rare, but it has saved me on a couple of occasions.

 

If you never travel, and have the option of borrowing a monitor or keyboard from another machine at home, then you wouldn’t need this.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

>>> ***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****

 

you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 1:10 PM Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Dale. Replies in between the message below:

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 2:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer


Two things pop out at me:

1) You have a 1200GTO which lacks the through-mount cabling, which means any cables coming off your telescope will be suspended in air for some portion and would present snag hazards and each be subjected to repeated flexing and wear for some portion of their length.

****I have eliminated the clutch knobs and most of what could cause a snag, usually not an issue. Wires have been enclosed in a mesh material used for vehicle wiring bundles.*****

2) Gosh, that's a lot of POS (plain old serial)

My own instinct and from working with mounts that have both thru-mount cableways and not, is to minimize that run of cables to the telescope and not run individual cables for each device up there.

****My concern about mounting the NUC on the telescope is balancing. While it does help a good deal on the length of run and the rotation, it still may limit the use of say a piggyback scope, think my Stowaway, on the RC. My wiring solution was to wrap the wires in several bundles depending on where they needed to go. The USB and Serial cables are in conduit to the control room now, at the mount they are in smaller bundles depending is they rotate or are stationary.*****

On top of the scope, I would place a power pole hub and USB hub such as a StarTech 7-port model. I would run only one 12V and one USB cable from the NUC up to those devices. The powerpole hub would distribute power, and the USB hub would connect your USB devices and, for your devices which have only RS232 interfaces, USB to serial adapters for each. This the lightens the cable harness that comes off the telescope. Because you would use discrete USB to serial adaptors for your RS232 devices, you don't need to worry about having enough RS232 ports.

****Not sure about those USB to Serial adapters as I've heard of many causing issues or simply not working. For power I've been using an IP addressable power switch which allows me to power only those devices as needed. For instance I don't keep power on the flat panel unless it's being used. With the STL-11000 I've had issues where I needed to cycle power to the camera due to a filter wheel issue. If I start the camera and get the error message usually just a disconnect and reconnect or power cycle will clear it. Never found the cause of that issue but easily resolved.****

With all data devices on your telescope occupying only one USB port on your NUC, you can use a second USB port for the 4-port StarTech ICUSB23241. That can connect the dome, boltwood, CP backup, and flat panel. You'll then have USB ports to spare.

*****With the 1 USB and all data....these new CMOS chips send a ton of data for each frame so I'd be concerned with a single USB port handling all the USB traffic. What keeps it from bottlenecking? I haven't tested the serial  device for multiple devices at this pint so not sure how that will handle the traffic as well****

I would not bother with trying to pipe the NUC's keyboard+mouse and HDMI video over to your warm room. It's already on a 1Gb network, so just use MS Remote Desktop to remote in from a laptop of desktop PC on the network. Your wired LAN and also have a WAP so you don't even need a hardwire network connection for your latop and can also use tablet PCs or iPads to remote into your NUC to run sessions.

***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****


If you want to at the pier, you can keep a small keyboard and mouse to plug in to the NUC when you need to. Keep a small and cheap HDMI monitor on hand to use with them.


> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:33, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>
> I would guess sit on the pier.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:26 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer
>
>
> Just to be clear, is this NUC going to ride on top of your telescope on the mount, or sit on/close to the pier?
>
>> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:11, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Gang,
>>
>> In the process of setting up a 12’ Astro Haven dome and moving my 12.5” RC and AP1200 mount from the ROR to the dome. In the process I’m contemplating replacing the observatory computer with a NUC to both shorten the cabling and have a more compact unit. I counted the ports as the computer is now configured and have the following needs:
>>
>> Serial ports=7 I have a StarTech ICUSB23241 4 Port Industrial USB to RS232 Serial Hub but that still leaves 3 needed ports (focuser, rotator, AP1200 backup, Dew Heater Controller, Flat Panel, Boltwood, and dome controls)
>>
>> USB ports = 4 including the one for the Serial Hub, Guider camera, Main Camera, mouse and keyboard
>>
>> Network minimum=1 then use the 8 port Gigabit switch I have ( 1 AP1200, 1 Computer network,  onsite pan cameras (3), etc.)
>>
>> Display port=1 HDMI or DVI
>>
>> Anticipating fiber optic internet connections in the next month or so I also ran Cat6 cabling for network switch and mount.
>>
>> So with that in mind the ports, mainly serial are what have me second guessing the NUC. I have, almost ready to ship out, a OnLogic NUC for a friends SRO system but that’s way more then I care to spend although it has all the necessary ports to hook everything up directly with hubs and so on. So based on this what would be a reasonable budget for what I’m looking for in a quality, reliable NUC? Even if I use the existing desktop computer I have now it will be without all the extender cables I’m using now as the computer is in the warm room 20’ away but the idea of a sealed fanless computer really appeals to me for this type of usage. Hence I’m looking for ideas to explore while this project continues, in of course, the hottest time of the year.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>













 

--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente


Re: Off Topic-NUC Computer

Jeffc
 

I’ve seen this problem where Remote Desktop can’t find the windows 10 machine. 
I think it may be a windows bug (but could also be related to my home WAN router.)   

When I’m “in the field” I use Ethernet from the pier computer to a small WiFi router.  
I have not seen any problem there. 

At home I connect the pier computer via WiFi (there’s a UniFi setup with WiFi coverage over the whole backyard.).   And sometimes in that scenario win10 is not reachable.  

However I have a simple solution: I log into the web UI for UniFi (which I can do from anywhere) and issue a “reconnect” for the win10 machine WiFi.   This always fixes the issue.  

I used to bring a small HDMI monitor in the field  as a backup… but I never needed it.  I suppose headless is a bit of risk tho. 


On Jul 13, 2021, at 3:13 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:



“you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)”

 

It’s rare, but I have had the occasional problem where my imaging computer fails to connect to the network properly.  In that case, having a laptop doesn’t help.  For use when I am set up in the field, I bought a small (10”) HDMI display that runs from 12v and a keyboard with integrated track pad.  I keep them in my star party travel kit.

 

As I said, it’s rare, but it has saved me on a couple of occasions.

 

If you never travel, and have the option of borrowing a monitor or keyboard from another machine at home, then you wouldn’t need this.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

>>> ***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****

 

you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 1:10 PM Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Dale. Replies in between the message below:

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 2:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer


Two things pop out at me:

1) You have a 1200GTO which lacks the through-mount cabling, which means any cables coming off your telescope will be suspended in air for some portion and would present snag hazards and each be subjected to repeated flexing and wear for some portion of their length.

****I have eliminated the clutch knobs and most of what could cause a snag, usually not an issue. Wires have been enclosed in a mesh material used for vehicle wiring bundles.*****

2) Gosh, that's a lot of POS (plain old serial)

My own instinct and from working with mounts that have both thru-mount cableways and not, is to minimize that run of cables to the telescope and not run individual cables for each device up there.

****My concern about mounting the NUC on the telescope is balancing. While it does help a good deal on the length of run and the rotation, it still may limit the use of say a piggyback scope, think my Stowaway, on the RC. My wiring solution was to wrap the wires in several bundles depending on where they needed to go. The USB and Serial cables are in conduit to the control room now, at the mount they are in smaller bundles depending is they rotate or are stationary.*****

On top of the scope, I would place a power pole hub and USB hub such as a StarTech 7-port model. I would run only one 12V and one USB cable from the NUC up to those devices. The powerpole hub would distribute power, and the USB hub would connect your USB devices and, for your devices which have only RS232 interfaces, USB to serial adapters for each. This the lightens the cable harness that comes off the telescope. Because you would use discrete USB to serial adaptors for your RS232 devices, you don't need to worry about having enough RS232 ports.

****Not sure about those USB to Serial adapters as I've heard of many causing issues or simply not working. For power I've been using an IP addressable power switch which allows me to power only those devices as needed. For instance I don't keep power on the flat panel unless it's being used. With the STL-11000 I've had issues where I needed to cycle power to the camera due to a filter wheel issue. If I start the camera and get the error message usually just a disconnect and reconnect or power cycle will clear it. Never found the cause of that issue but easily resolved.****

With all data devices on your telescope occupying only one USB port on your NUC, you can use a second USB port for the 4-port StarTech ICUSB23241. That can connect the dome, boltwood, CP backup, and flat panel. You'll then have USB ports to spare.

*****With the 1 USB and all data....these new CMOS chips send a ton of data for each frame so I'd be concerned with a single USB port handling all the USB traffic. What keeps it from bottlenecking? I haven't tested the serial  device for multiple devices at this pint so not sure how that will handle the traffic as well****

I would not bother with trying to pipe the NUC's keyboard+mouse and HDMI video over to your warm room. It's already on a 1Gb network, so just use MS Remote Desktop to remote in from a laptop of desktop PC on the network. Your wired LAN and also have a WAP so you don't even need a hardwire network connection for your latop and can also use tablet PCs or iPads to remote into your NUC to run sessions.

***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****


If you want to at the pier, you can keep a small keyboard and mouse to plug in to the NUC when you need to. Keep a small and cheap HDMI monitor on hand to use with them.


> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:33, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>
> I would guess sit on the pier.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:26 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer
>
>
> Just to be clear, is this NUC going to ride on top of your telescope on the mount, or sit on/close to the pier?
>
>> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:11, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Gang,
>>
>> In the process of setting up a 12’ Astro Haven dome and moving my 12.5” RC and AP1200 mount from the ROR to the dome. In the process I’m contemplating replacing the observatory computer with a NUC to both shorten the cabling and have a more compact unit. I counted the ports as the computer is now configured and have the following needs:
>>
>> Serial ports=7 I have a StarTech ICUSB23241 4 Port Industrial USB to RS232 Serial Hub but that still leaves 3 needed ports (focuser, rotator, AP1200 backup, Dew Heater Controller, Flat Panel, Boltwood, and dome controls)
>>
>> USB ports = 4 including the one for the Serial Hub, Guider camera, Main Camera, mouse and keyboard
>>
>> Network minimum=1 then use the 8 port Gigabit switch I have ( 1 AP1200, 1 Computer network,  onsite pan cameras (3), etc.)
>>
>> Display port=1 HDMI or DVI
>>
>> Anticipating fiber optic internet connections in the next month or so I also ran Cat6 cabling for network switch and mount.
>>
>> So with that in mind the ports, mainly serial are what have me second guessing the NUC. I have, almost ready to ship out, a OnLogic NUC for a friends SRO system but that’s way more then I care to spend although it has all the necessary ports to hook everything up directly with hubs and so on. So based on this what would be a reasonable budget for what I’m looking for in a quality, reliable NUC? Even if I use the existing desktop computer I have now it will be without all the extender cables I’m using now as the computer is in the warm room 20’ away but the idea of a sealed fanless computer really appeals to me for this type of usage. Hence I’m looking for ideas to explore while this project continues, in of course, the hottest time of the year.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>












 

--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente


Re: Computer max ambient temperature

John Jennings
 
Edited

Joe,

Actually, with a 40 watt light bulb and the NUC or Beelink computer turned on, the scope air pocket rarely gets over 60% humidity even during a rainstorm. I have a lightweight solar cover and a Telegizmos cover on top that with a good pocket of airspace. Everything is kept nice and dry. I actually kept my C14 HyperStar/AP1200 out on the patio for 3 years like that and never had on case of water or high humidity. The key is multiple covers with air pockets. Also, if one cover gets a tear, there's still no leakage.

But the automated humidity control would be really nice. In Texas, the only thing that's an issue is hail. Not nice on expensive cameras or telescopes. The carbon fiber scope tube and camera hood on my modified C14 just laughs off hail. But thats not the case on the nice AP refractors or cameras. They require an additional hail cover. As you can see, I'm don't tear my scopes down often.

John


Re: Off Topic-NUC Computer

W Hilmo
 

“you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)”

 

It’s rare, but I have had the occasional problem where my imaging computer fails to connect to the network properly.  In that case, having a laptop doesn’t help.  For use when I am set up in the field, I bought a small (10”) HDMI display that runs from 12v and a keyboard with integrated track pad.  I keep them in my star party travel kit.

 

As I said, it’s rare, but it has saved me on a couple of occasions.

 

If you never travel, and have the option of borrowing a monitor or keyboard from another machine at home, then you wouldn’t need this.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:19 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer

 

>>> ***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****

 

you can also just bring a laptop and remote in while next to the NUC. that's why I do all the time

 

i don't have extra keyboards and HDMI monitors laying around :)

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 1:10 PM Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:

Thanks for the reply Dale. Replies in between the message below:

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 2:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer


Two things pop out at me:

1) You have a 1200GTO which lacks the through-mount cabling, which means any cables coming off your telescope will be suspended in air for some portion and would present snag hazards and each be subjected to repeated flexing and wear for some portion of their length.

****I have eliminated the clutch knobs and most of what could cause a snag, usually not an issue. Wires have been enclosed in a mesh material used for vehicle wiring bundles.*****

2) Gosh, that's a lot of POS (plain old serial)

My own instinct and from working with mounts that have both thru-mount cableways and not, is to minimize that run of cables to the telescope and not run individual cables for each device up there.

****My concern about mounting the NUC on the telescope is balancing. While it does help a good deal on the length of run and the rotation, it still may limit the use of say a piggyback scope, think my Stowaway, on the RC. My wiring solution was to wrap the wires in several bundles depending on where they needed to go. The USB and Serial cables are in conduit to the control room now, at the mount they are in smaller bundles depending is they rotate or are stationary.*****

On top of the scope, I would place a power pole hub and USB hub such as a StarTech 7-port model. I would run only one 12V and one USB cable from the NUC up to those devices. The powerpole hub would distribute power, and the USB hub would connect your USB devices and, for your devices which have only RS232 interfaces, USB to serial adapters for each. This the lightens the cable harness that comes off the telescope. Because you would use discrete USB to serial adaptors for your RS232 devices, you don't need to worry about having enough RS232 ports.

****Not sure about those USB to Serial adapters as I've heard of many causing issues or simply not working. For power I've been using an IP addressable power switch which allows me to power only those devices as needed. For instance I don't keep power on the flat panel unless it's being used. With the STL-11000 I've had issues where I needed to cycle power to the camera due to a filter wheel issue. If I start the camera and get the error message usually just a disconnect and reconnect or power cycle will clear it. Never found the cause of that issue but easily resolved.****

With all data devices on your telescope occupying only one USB port on your NUC, you can use a second USB port for the 4-port StarTech ICUSB23241. That can connect the dome, boltwood, CP backup, and flat panel. You'll then have USB ports to spare.

*****With the 1 USB and all data....these new CMOS chips send a ton of data for each frame so I'd be concerned with a single USB port handling all the USB traffic. What keeps it from bottlenecking? I haven't tested the serial  device for multiple devices at this pint so not sure how that will handle the traffic as well****

I would not bother with trying to pipe the NUC's keyboard+mouse and HDMI video over to your warm room. It's already on a 1Gb network, so just use MS Remote Desktop to remote in from a laptop of desktop PC on the network. Your wired LAN and also have a WAP so you don't even need a hardwire network connection for your latop and can also use tablet PCs or iPads to remote into your NUC to run sessions.

***The only reason for keyboard and mouse would be needed tests while at the mount, monitor as well. Most all other needs can indeed be done remotely with Remote Desktop or Team Viewer****


If you want to at the pier, you can keep a small keyboard and mouse to plug in to the NUC when you need to. Keep a small and cheap HDMI monitor on hand to use with them.


> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:33, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>
> I would guess sit on the pier.
>
> -Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 1:26 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Off Topic-NUC Computer
>
>
> Just to be clear, is this NUC going to ride on top of your telescope on the mount, or sit on/close to the pier?
>
>> On Jul 12, 2021, at 13:11, Steve Reilly <sreilly24590@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Gang,
>>
>> In the process of setting up a 12’ Astro Haven dome and moving my 12.5” RC and AP1200 mount from the ROR to the dome. In the process I’m contemplating replacing the observatory computer with a NUC to both shorten the cabling and have a more compact unit. I counted the ports as the computer is now configured and have the following needs:
>>
>> Serial ports=7 I have a StarTech ICUSB23241 4 Port Industrial USB to RS232 Serial Hub but that still leaves 3 needed ports (focuser, rotator, AP1200 backup, Dew Heater Controller, Flat Panel, Boltwood, and dome controls)
>>
>> USB ports = 4 including the one for the Serial Hub, Guider camera, Main Camera, mouse and keyboard
>>
>> Network minimum=1 then use the 8 port Gigabit switch I have ( 1 AP1200, 1 Computer network,  onsite pan cameras (3), etc.)
>>
>> Display port=1 HDMI or DVI
>>
>> Anticipating fiber optic internet connections in the next month or so I also ran Cat6 cabling for network switch and mount.
>>
>> So with that in mind the ports, mainly serial are what have me second guessing the NUC. I have, almost ready to ship out, a OnLogic NUC for a friends SRO system but that’s way more then I care to spend although it has all the necessary ports to hook everything up directly with hubs and so on. So based on this what would be a reasonable budget for what I’m looking for in a quality, reliable NUC? Even if I use the existing desktop computer I have now it will be without all the extender cables I’m using now as the computer is in the warm room 20’ away but the idea of a sealed fanless computer really appeals to me for this type of usage. Hence I’m looking for ideas to explore while this project continues, in of course, the hottest time of the year.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente


Re: USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

jimwc@...
 

Mike

I live in aridzona my problem is usually the other way "Too hot" right now the nighttime temps only get down to the low 90's.  I have not had any trouble with the 3104 at all.  I have not noticed if they get hot at all. I would think that if you have not had any problem with the 2304 you won't have a problem with the 3104.  yes, they are not cheep but they work well. like you I didn't want to spend $1000+ on a computer you still have to get special cords for all the power etc..  the only thing you need to get is the Ethernet cable I use a 50ft cat7 cable to run into the house, I got mine at   ShowMeCables.com.

hope this helps.

clear sky's

Jim

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io On Behalf Of Mike Dodd
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 08:53 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

 

On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 01:34 AM, <jimwc@...> wrote:

...the ICRON Raven 3104 solved my problems. I am sure there is other brands but I can not vouch for them.

Hi, Jim. I'm considering the Raven 3104 because it appears that one of my active (powered) USB 3 extenders is not working correctly (MaxIm sometimes hangs while reading the guide camera).

One thing that bothers me about the Raven 3104 is the minimum operating temperature spec of 0C.  Do you have any experience with yours at cold temps? Do the two boxes get warm during operation, so that cold ambient temperature isn't an issue? I have an Icron Ranger 2304 USB 2 extender with the same spec, and it has worked fine below 0C, so maybe I'm worrying needlessly. OTOH $1,000 is a lot for a USB 3 extender. For that price I could buy a NUC (but I'd rather not).

Thanks for any info on the Raven 3104.

--- Mike

x (x)

 


Re: USB 2 VS USB3 problems solved

Mike Dodd
 

On 7/13/2021 12:01 PM, Eric Weiner wrote:
Howdy Mike,

I also use the 3104. I’ve only had it for a little while, but I can tell
you they do run quite warm. The Rex more than the Lex (it draws more
current). I haven’t had them through a winter yet but I imagine it would
need to be quite cold to get them down to 0°.
Thanks, Eric; that's kind of what I expected at USB 3 speeds.
I can measure the Rex
ambient temperature under load if you like.
No, thanks; I'll go with my gut feeling.

Don’t pay $1k. Keep your eye on eBay. I got my set new in a sealed ICRON
box for half that.
Hmmm.... I found only one 3104 on eBay today, and it was $999.

Need to keep searching, I suppose.

--- Mike

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