Date   

Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

 

>>>SCTs aren't bad, but have a number of issues that prevent me from wanting to use one for deep sky imaging. They are slow, the reducers for them aren't very good, focusing can cause mirror flopping/shifting issues, bright stars can get a reflection on them or elsewhere in images, they don't have good cooling out of the box, etc.

Having just purchased a Celestron Edge HD 11" (for planetary) most of not all of these issues are solved in modern SCTs. That being said, it would probably not be my first choice, considering the comparatively inexpensive imaging newts or mak newts that do a comparable job. I have a 10" f4 newt and am quite happy with the results. The SCT would definitely take some work and (not inexpensive) reducer to get it in the usable realm for DSO

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 2:53 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
SCTs aren't bad, but have a number of issues that prevent me from wanting to use one for deep sky imaging. They are slow, the reducers for them aren't very good, focusing can cause mirror flopping/shifting issues, bright stars can get a reflection on them or elsewhere in images, they don't have good cooling out of the box, etc.

To get one really up to snuff for high quality imaging takes a lot of work and extra money. Even then you still have some issues you just cannot fix unless you design and engineer your own solutions, like Dr Hayes did.

As for the viability of the Mak Cass f6.3 I think the design improvements you mentioned with permanent collimation, a high quality focuser, etc would be hard to pass up. Ultimately that would depend on the price I guess.

Bill



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide
 
Some thoughts from the peanut gallery,

Although you may have clouds and rain, we here in the Midwest have both plus we are under the jet stream most of the time with lousy seeing. Last night as an example I was out testing scopes and software with seeing at an abysmal 3 arc sec FWHM with a scope that can produce 1.3 FWHM in good seeing.

So, having said that, your image is quite nice, and the RGB does add a bit of 3-D to it compared to a normal narrowband Hubble palette like this one that I took last year: https://www.astrobin.com/full/g0bpv3/C/

What struck me about yours was the extraordinary amount of time you spent shooting this object compared to mine: i.e. 42 hours of data versus 10 hrs. And you had the advantage of a new high-falutin' CMOS camera that's some 3 times faster than my lowly QSI 683 with the slooow 8300 Kodak chip. Interestingly, we both had very close to the same 0.4 degree field radius. Your chip also has nearly 4 times the area of my QSI 683. The 10" F6.3 can cover a full frame format of course, I just didn't have the camera at the time to image with it.

Sooo, I'm using a 10" F6.3 flat field Mak-astrograph, and I have always been wondering if it's the right thing to spend time making in production, seeing as the SCTs of this size are so cheap. Maybe an SCT with an F6.3 reducer would negate the need for this scope?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

I suggest that the AP1100AE be submitted to the FDA for approval as a sleep aide. 

I tend to wake up in the week hours when my system is imaging, and roll over and unlock the phone and RDP in to check how things are going.  Last couple of nights the PHD2 log, which pops up first, had the first digit of a 1. That is a definite incentive to just go back to sleep and let it keep doing what it is doing.  Better than Ambien.  Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

I'm in that period here in Florida where it rains too much but there are a few nights open with really still air, but the wind has not picked up as it does during the actual dry season. 

I did finally find enough nights in between rain to finish off the elephant trunk (here "finish" could be defined as "got tired of collecting data" moreso than "definitely got enough data" -- but let's not split hairs). 

This is at 2800mm in RGB + SHO (all rolled together).  It has 30s RGB stars, the color is more from broadband mixed with the narrow band, and all the detail is from 36 hours of narrow band data (vs only 5.9 of BB for color).  No luminance, just synthetic luminance from narrow band.  I went through a rainbow of color variations and settled here.

Criticism and suggestions welcomed.

Full size version: https://www.astrobin.com/85ed5q/0/

Linwood

PS. If you submit to the FDA, will Medicare then pay for the mounts? 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics




Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

Bill Long
 

Yeah, I sent the previous message from my mobile, so I kept it short. The quartz optics, and carbon tube would be great additions. I think it's worth it myself. There are not many 10" high quality scopes available for purchase. Especially not ones with a large, corrected field. 


From: chris1011@... <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 3:15 PM
To: bill@... <bill@...>; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide
 

permanent collimation, a high quality focuser, etc
The main design parameters are fast focal ratio compared to an SCT, quartz mirror and carbon fiber tube for focus stability. I'm not sure if the latter two would be appreciated by imagers since people use focus routines to get around focus shift with temperature. The moment you add quartz optics and carbon fiber, you are adding several thousand to the retail price. Adding an Optec focuser adds another couple thou. So, is it worth it?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

SCTs aren't bad, but have a number of issues that prevent me from wanting to use one for deep sky imaging. They are slow, the reducers for them aren't very good, focusing can cause mirror flopping/shifting issues, bright stars can get a reflection on them or elsewhere in images, they don't have good cooling out of the box, etc.

To get one really up to snuff for high quality imaging takes a lot of work and extra money. Even then you still have some issues you just cannot fix unless you design and engineer your own solutions, like Dr Hayes did.

As for the viability of the Mak Cass f6.3 I think the design improvements you mentioned with permanent collimation, a high quality focuser, etc would be hard to pass up. Ultimately that would depend on the price I guess.

Bill



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide
 
Some thoughts from the peanut gallery,

Although you may have clouds and rain, we here in the Midwest have both plus we are under the jet stream most of the time with lousy seeing. Last night as an example I was out testing scopes and software with seeing at an abysmal 3 arc sec FWHM with a scope that can produce 1.3 FWHM in good seeing.

So, having said that, your image is quite nice, and the RGB does add a bit of 3-D to it compared to a normal narrowband Hubble palette like this one that I took last year: https://www.astrobin.com/full/g0bpv3/C/

What struck me about yours was the extraordinary amount of time you spent shooting this object compared to mine: i.e. 42 hours of data versus 10 hrs. And you had the advantage of a new high-falutin' CMOS camera that's some 3 times faster than my lowly QSI 683 with the slooow 8300 Kodak chip. Interestingly, we both had very close to the same 0.4 degree field radius. Your chip also has nearly 4 times the area of my QSI 683. The 10" F6.3 can cover a full frame format of course, I just didn't have the camera at the time to image with it.

Sooo, I'm using a 10" F6.3 flat field Mak-astrograph, and I have always been wondering if it's the right thing to spend time making in production, seeing as the SCTs of this size are so cheap. Maybe an SCT with an F6.3 reducer would negate the need for this scope?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

I suggest that the AP1100AE be submitted to the FDA for approval as a sleep aide. 

I tend to wake up in the week hours when my system is imaging, and roll over and unlock the phone and RDP in to check how things are going.  Last couple of nights the PHD2 log, which pops up first, had the first digit of a 1. That is a definite incentive to just go back to sleep and let it keep doing what it is doing.  Better than Ambien.  Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

I'm in that period here in Florida where it rains too much but there are a few nights open with really still air, but the wind has not picked up as it does during the actual dry season. 

I did finally find enough nights in between rain to finish off the elephant trunk (here "finish" could be defined as "got tired of collecting data" moreso than "definitely got enough data" -- but let's not split hairs). 

This is at 2800mm in RGB + SHO (all rolled together).  It has 30s RGB stars, the color is more from broadband mixed with the narrow band, and all the detail is from 36 hours of narrow band data (vs only 5.9 of BB for color).  No luminance, just synthetic luminance from narrow band.  I went through a rainbow of color variations and settled here.

Criticism and suggestions welcomed.

Full size version: https://www.astrobin.com/85ed5q/0/

Linwood

PS. If you submit to the FDA, will Medicare then pay for the mounts? 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 03:09 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
What struck me about yours was the extraordinary amount of time you spent shooting this object compared to mine: i.e. 42 hours of data versus 10 hrs. And you had the advantage of a new high-falutin' CMOS camera that's some 3 times faster than my lowly QSI 683 with the slooow 8300 Kodak chip. Interestingly, we both had very close to the same 0.4 degree field radius. Your chip also has nearly 4 times the area of my QSI 683. The 10" F6.3 can cover a full frame format of course, I just didn't have the camera at the time to image with it.
 
Sooo, I'm using a 10" F6.3 flat field Mak-astrograph, and I have always been wondering if it's the right thing to spend time making in production, seeing as the SCTs of this size are so cheap. Maybe an SCT with an F6.3 reducer would negate the need for this scope?
A few thoughts... 

First, I still struggle with knowing when to stop imaging a target.  My current technique is run WBPP (PI) each morning to incorporate the latest, and see the integrated images.  When they stop getting better I stop.  Well, maybe... I also suffer from complications of moonlight (so I may still need RGB data and need to wait a bit), or maybe I lost disproportionately too much of one filter to clouds.  So I definitely tend to over-collect rather than under.  I was very surprised in this case that I got more contribution than I expected with very little RGB data. Though I think the longer narrow band, some drizzling, over-sampling and deconvolution brought out detail I would not have had with a lot less time.  And I think more data sometimes overcomes some of my lousy PI processing skills. 

I've used the 0.7x reducer from Celestron a few times, and am not excited. I still am unsure if I have a back focus issue, or if it just does not cover a full frame well.  Though I did get a decent pac-man with it (https://www.astrobin.com/full/32xnwf/0/), it's tough to get the corners to look decent.  Maybe I need to spend more time fine tuning it, but it is a pain to use with the lite crawler (more precisely a pain to change back and forth). 

I'm really curious to see how I feel about the C11 when I get some use of the 152 that's on order.  While 1200mm is not 2800mm, with the tiny pixels I figure I am seeing limited even in good time to somewhere in the 1500mm range.  And it will probably get rid of my super bloated stars.  But at present, especially in galaxy season and for clusters, I actually like the C11 quite a lot.

Thanks for the thoughts, your peanut gallery is still very exclusive territory, I appreciate your time.

Peter Nagy wrote: 

>>   
Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

 

>I prefer Scotch Whiskey. 😉 

Well, I understand how some like refractors, some reflectors; some mono, some OSC; some blonds, some redheads; some guided and some just let the scope wander... but Scotch?   (And I'm fairly sure my ancestors on my fathers side are from Scotland, so I realize its sacrilege). 

Linwood


Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

Roland Christen
 


permanent collimation, a high quality focuser, etc
The main design parameters are fast focal ratio compared to an SCT, quartz mirror and carbon fiber tube for focus stability. I'm not sure if the latter two would be appreciated by imagers since people use focus routines to get around focus shift with temperature. The moment you add quartz optics and carbon fiber, you are adding several thousand to the retail price. Adding an Optec focuser adds another couple thou. So, is it worth it?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 4:53 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

SCTs aren't bad, but have a number of issues that prevent me from wanting to use one for deep sky imaging. They are slow, the reducers for them aren't very good, focusing can cause mirror flopping/shifting issues, bright stars can get a reflection on them or elsewhere in images, they don't have good cooling out of the box, etc.

To get one really up to snuff for high quality imaging takes a lot of work and extra money. Even then you still have some issues you just cannot fix unless you design and engineer your own solutions, like Dr Hayes did.

As for the viability of the Mak Cass f6.3 I think the design improvements you mentioned with permanent collimation, a high quality focuser, etc would be hard to pass up. Ultimately that would depend on the price I guess.

Bill



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide
 
Some thoughts from the peanut gallery,

Although you may have clouds and rain, we here in the Midwest have both plus we are under the jet stream most of the time with lousy seeing. Last night as an example I was out testing scopes and software with seeing at an abysmal 3 arc sec FWHM with a scope that can produce 1.3 FWHM in good seeing.

So, having said that, your image is quite nice, and the RGB does add a bit of 3-D to it compared to a normal narrowband Hubble palette like this one that I took last year: https://www.astrobin.com/full/g0bpv3/C/

What struck me about yours was the extraordinary amount of time you spent shooting this object compared to mine: i.e. 42 hours of data versus 10 hrs. And you had the advantage of a new high-falutin' CMOS camera that's some 3 times faster than my lowly QSI 683 with the slooow 8300 Kodak chip. Interestingly, we both had very close to the same 0.4 degree field radius. Your chip also has nearly 4 times the area of my QSI 683. The 10" F6.3 can cover a full frame format of course, I just didn't have the camera at the time to image with it.

Sooo, I'm using a 10" F6.3 flat field Mak-astrograph, and I have always been wondering if it's the right thing to spend time making in production, seeing as the SCTs of this size are so cheap. Maybe an SCT with an F6.3 reducer would negate the need for this scope?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

I suggest that the AP1100AE be submitted to the FDA for approval as a sleep aide. 

I tend to wake up in the week hours when my system is imaging, and roll over and unlock the phone and RDP in to check how things are going.  Last couple of nights the PHD2 log, which pops up first, had the first digit of a 1. That is a definite incentive to just go back to sleep and let it keep doing what it is doing.  Better than Ambien.  Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

I'm in that period here in Florida where it rains too much but there are a few nights open with really still air, but the wind has not picked up as it does during the actual dry season. 

I did finally find enough nights in between rain to finish off the elephant trunk (here "finish" could be defined as "got tired of collecting data" moreso than "definitely got enough data" -- but let's not split hairs). 

This is at 2800mm in RGB + SHO (all rolled together).  It has 30s RGB stars, the color is more from broadband mixed with the narrow band, and all the detail is from 36 hours of narrow band data (vs only 5.9 of BB for color).  No luminance, just synthetic luminance from narrow band.  I went through a rainbow of color variations and settled here.

Criticism and suggestions welcomed.

Full size version: https://www.astrobin.com/85ed5q/0/

Linwood

PS. If you submit to the FDA, will Medicare then pay for the mounts? 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

Bill Long
 

SCTs aren't bad, but have a number of issues that prevent me from wanting to use one for deep sky imaging. They are slow, the reducers for them aren't very good, focusing can cause mirror flopping/shifting issues, bright stars can get a reflection on them or elsewhere in images, they don't have good cooling out of the box, etc.

To get one really up to snuff for high quality imaging takes a lot of work and extra money. Even then you still have some issues you just cannot fix unless you design and engineer your own solutions, like Dr Hayes did.

As for the viability of the Mak Cass f6.3 I think the design improvements you mentioned with permanent collimation, a high quality focuser, etc would be hard to pass up. Ultimately that would depend on the price I guess.

Bill



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide
 
Some thoughts from the peanut gallery,

Although you may have clouds and rain, we here in the Midwest have both plus we are under the jet stream most of the time with lousy seeing. Last night as an example I was out testing scopes and software with seeing at an abysmal 3 arc sec FWHM with a scope that can produce 1.3 FWHM in good seeing.

So, having said that, your image is quite nice, and the RGB does add a bit of 3-D to it compared to a normal narrowband Hubble palette like this one that I took last year: https://www.astrobin.com/full/g0bpv3/C/

What struck me about yours was the extraordinary amount of time you spent shooting this object compared to mine: i.e. 42 hours of data versus 10 hrs. And you had the advantage of a new high-falutin' CMOS camera that's some 3 times faster than my lowly QSI 683 with the slooow 8300 Kodak chip. Interestingly, we both had very close to the same 0.4 degree field radius. Your chip also has nearly 4 times the area of my QSI 683. The 10" F6.3 can cover a full frame format of course, I just didn't have the camera at the time to image with it.

Sooo, I'm using a 10" F6.3 flat field Mak-astrograph, and I have always been wondering if it's the right thing to spend time making in production, seeing as the SCTs of this size are so cheap. Maybe an SCT with an F6.3 reducer would negate the need for this scope?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

I suggest that the AP1100AE be submitted to the FDA for approval as a sleep aide. 

I tend to wake up in the week hours when my system is imaging, and roll over and unlock the phone and RDP in to check how things are going.  Last couple of nights the PHD2 log, which pops up first, had the first digit of a 1. That is a definite incentive to just go back to sleep and let it keep doing what it is doing.  Better than Ambien.  Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

I'm in that period here in Florida where it rains too much but there are a few nights open with really still air, but the wind has not picked up as it does during the actual dry season. 

I did finally find enough nights in between rain to finish off the elephant trunk (here "finish" could be defined as "got tired of collecting data" moreso than "definitely got enough data" -- but let's not split hairs). 

This is at 2800mm in RGB + SHO (all rolled together).  It has 30s RGB stars, the color is more from broadband mixed with the narrow band, and all the detail is from 36 hours of narrow band data (vs only 5.9 of BB for color).  No luminance, just synthetic luminance from narrow band.  I went through a rainbow of color variations and settled here.

Criticism and suggestions welcomed.

Full size version: https://www.astrobin.com/85ed5q/0/

Linwood

PS. If you submit to the FDA, will Medicare then pay for the mounts? 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

Peter Nagy
 

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:18 AM, ap@... wrote:
Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 
I prefer Scotch Whiskey. 😉 

Peter


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Dean Jacobsen
 
Edited

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 12:35 PM, Arvind wrote:
I tried looking at PI previously, but it appears to have a steep learning curve with the way the user interface works. Astro Pixel Processor's streamlined workflow can be achieved on PixInsight, from what I gather, by using readily available scripts (WBPP?) which automate most of the things.. but APP is inherently built like a streamlined workflow to begin with.. and then there are a handful of tools (light pollution removal, color adjustments, etc) that you handle later as needed. Atleast personally I've been happy with the results I'm getting from APP so haven't had the need to feel limited by it.
 
I overall tend to prefer things that make my life easier, so ended up sticking with APP :-) Perhaps one day in the future I might feel compelled to switch to PI but I can't feel limited in anyway at this time at least... 
Yes, PixInsight does have a bit of a learning curve and it does take some study to learn how to use it.  I learned by reading a couple of books and by buying a subscription to an on line tutorial site.  Since then I have purchased a subscription to Adam Block's video tutorial package.  All of his stuff is excellent and I would highly recommend his tutorials if you are thinking of learning PixInsight.  I started buying his tutorials years ago when he was putting out tutorials for CCDStack and Photoshop.
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Arvind
 



On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 12:32 PM Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...> wrote:
On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:02 AM, Arvind wrote:
Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.
Excellent image Arvind.  The ASI2400MC full frame camera is an excellent match with the FSQ-106 at f/5.  I started using the same camera with the FSQ at gain 158 and then have recently been shooting at gain0 to take advantage of the large well capacity so as to preserve more star color.  With the FSQ + 645 reducer combo [f/3.6] I was saturating almost all of the stars in the field at gain 158.  :-)  The camera is fairly new to me so I am still in the process of trying to optimize things.
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/
_._,_._,_

Thanks Dean! I've seen some of your images with this setup as well. I am liking this setup, and has been my main portable imaging train (mount varies depending on location/duration). 


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Roland Christen
 

Thanks for the info.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 2:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022



On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 12:13 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
APP is a bit easier to use than PI, but does not have the full kit of power that PI does. APP is wonderful at Mosaics though, much easier to do in APP than PI. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022
 
Is there an advantage to this program versus Pix Insight? I haven't tried either one. My main processing path is to do what I can in MaximDL and then process further in Photoshop.

Rolando


Roland, Bill - Just like Bill mentions I've heard that PixInsight is more versatile than Astro Pixel Processor, but I have not tried PI yet.

I tried looking at PI previously, but it appears to have a steep learning curve with the way the user interface works. Astro Pixel Processor's streamlined workflow can be achieved on PixInsight, from what I gather, by using readily available scripts (WBPP?) which automate most of the things.. but APP is inherently built like a streamlined workflow to begin with.. and then there are a handful of tools (light pollution removal, color adjustments, etc) that you handle later as needed. Atleast personally I've been happy with the results I'm getting from APP so haven't had the need to feel limited by it.

I overall tend to prefer things that make my life easier, so ended up sticking with APP :-) Perhaps one day in the future I might feel compelled to switch to PI but I can't feel limited in anyway at this time at least... 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Arvind
 



On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 12:13 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
APP is a bit easier to use than PI, but does not have the full kit of power that PI does. APP is wonderful at Mosaics though, much easier to do in APP than PI. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022
 
Is there an advantage to this program versus Pix Insight? I haven't tried either one. My main processing path is to do what I can in MaximDL and then process further in Photoshop.

Rolando


Roland, Bill - Just like Bill mentions I've heard that PixInsight is more versatile than Astro Pixel Processor, but I have not tried PI yet.

I tried looking at PI previously, but it appears to have a steep learning curve with the way the user interface works. Astro Pixel Processor's streamlined workflow can be achieved on PixInsight, from what I gather, by using readily available scripts (WBPP?) which automate most of the things.. but APP is inherently built like a streamlined workflow to begin with.. and then there are a handful of tools (light pollution removal, color adjustments, etc) that you handle later as needed. Atleast personally I've been happy with the results I'm getting from APP so haven't had the need to feel limited by it.

I overall tend to prefer things that make my life easier, so ended up sticking with APP :-) Perhaps one day in the future I might feel compelled to switch to PI but I can't feel limited in anyway at this time at least... 


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Dean Jacobsen
 

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:02 AM, Arvind wrote:
Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.
Excellent image Arvind.  The ASI2400MC full frame camera is an excellent match with the FSQ-106 at f/5.  I started using the same camera with the FSQ at gain 158 and then have recently been shooting at gain0 to take advantage of the large well capacity so as to preserve more star color.  With the FSQ + 645 reducer combo [f/3.6] I was saturating almost all of the stars in the field at gain 158.  :-)  The camera is fairly new to me so I am still in the process of trying to optimize things.
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Bill Long
 

APP is a bit easier to use than PI, but does not have the full kit of power that PI does. APP is wonderful at Mosaics though, much easier to do in APP than PI. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 12:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022
 
Is there an advantage to this program versus Pix Insight? I haven't tried either one. My main processing path is to do what I can in MaximDL and then process further in Photoshop.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022

Thanks Roland. I used Astro Pixel Processor for processing.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:07 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Very nice processing. What software are you using to process the image?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:02 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022

Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.

Just shy of 3½ hours total, including an auto-meridian flip. Polar Alignment was less than a 1-arcmin, and guided using a 120mm guidescope. Guide settings were 600 for all values (Calib. step, Max RA & Dec duration) in ASIAIR.


Love this setup for portable multi-night imaging (I'm at a star party). Not a single sub lost out of the 100 subs from last night, and the image is not cropped, as well.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Roland Christen
 

Is there an advantage to this program versus Pix Insight? I haven't tried either one. My main processing path is to do what I can in MaximDL and then process further in Photoshop.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022

Thanks Roland. I used Astro Pixel Processor for processing.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:07 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Very nice processing. What software are you using to process the image?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:02 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022

Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.

Just shy of 3½ hours total, including an auto-meridian flip. Polar Alignment was less than a 1-arcmin, and guided using a 120mm guidescope. Guide settings were 600 for all values (Calib. step, Max RA & Dec duration) in ASIAIR.


Love this setup for portable multi-night imaging (I'm at a star party). Not a single sub lost out of the 100 subs from last night, and the image is not cropped, as well.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

Roland Christen
 

Some thoughts from the peanut gallery,

Although you may have clouds and rain, we here in the Midwest have both plus we are under the jet stream most of the time with lousy seeing. Last night as an example I was out testing scopes and software with seeing at an abysmal 3 arc sec FWHM with a scope that can produce 1.3 FWHM in good seeing.

So, having said that, your image is quite nice, and the RGB does add a bit of 3-D to it compared to a normal narrowband Hubble palette like this one that I took last year: https://www.astrobin.com/full/g0bpv3/C/

What struck me about yours was the extraordinary amount of time you spent shooting this object compared to mine: i.e. 42 hours of data versus 10 hrs. And you had the advantage of a new high-falutin' CMOS camera that's some 3 times faster than my lowly QSI 683 with the slooow 8300 Kodak chip. Interestingly, we both had very close to the same 0.4 degree field radius. Your chip also has nearly 4 times the area of my QSI 683. The 10" F6.3 can cover a full frame format of course, I just didn't have the camera at the time to image with it.

Sooo, I'm using a 10" F6.3 flat field Mak-astrograph, and I have always been wondering if it's the right thing to spend time making in production, seeing as the SCTs of this size are so cheap. Maybe an SCT with an F6.3 reducer would negate the need for this scope?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

I suggest that the AP1100AE be submitted to the FDA for approval as a sleep aide. 

I tend to wake up in the week hours when my system is imaging, and roll over and unlock the phone and RDP in to check how things are going.  Last couple of nights the PHD2 log, which pops up first, had the first digit of a 1. That is a definite incentive to just go back to sleep and let it keep doing what it is doing.  Better than Ambien.  Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

I'm in that period here in Florida where it rains too much but there are a few nights open with really still air, but the wind has not picked up as it does during the actual dry season. 

I did finally find enough nights in between rain to finish off the elephant trunk (here "finish" could be defined as "got tired of collecting data" moreso than "definitely got enough data" -- but let's not split hairs). 

This is at 2800mm in RGB + SHO (all rolled together).  It has 30s RGB stars, the color is more from broadband mixed with the narrow band, and all the detail is from 36 hours of narrow band data (vs only 5.9 of BB for color).  No luminance, just synthetic luminance from narrow band.  I went through a rainbow of color variations and settled here.

Criticism and suggestions welcomed.

Full size version: https://www.astrobin.com/85ed5q/0/

Linwood

PS. If you submit to the FDA, will Medicare then pay for the mounts? 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Arvind
 

Thanks Roland. I used Astro Pixel Processor for processing.


On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 11:07 AM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Very nice processing. What software are you using to process the image?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:02 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022

Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.

Just shy of 3½ hours total, including an auto-meridian flip. Polar Alignment was less than a 1-arcmin, and guided using a 120mm guidescope. Guide settings were 600 for all values (Calib. step, Max RA & Dec duration) in ASIAIR.


Love this setup for portable multi-night imaging (I'm at a star party). Not a single sub lost out of the 100 subs from last night, and the image is not cropped, as well.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Linwood,

That is a fine image for a Florida summer.   Last night was actually quite nice.  This hurricane will usher in the change in weather.  I just hope it does not hit us.  Somewhat tired of Andres, Charlie, and Irma for sure.  Anyways, I am going to try tonight and should have tried last night.  The air was very still and the sky was reasonable.  However, I have to work to pay for my 1100 and in hopeful waiting for my 130 and 110.  Very nice image.  I am amazed you can get any photons at all.


Elephant Trunk, AP1100AE as a sleep aide

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

I suggest that the AP1100AE be submitted to the FDA for approval as a sleep aide. 

I tend to wake up in the week hours when my system is imaging, and roll over and unlock the phone and RDP in to check how things are going.  Last couple of nights the PHD2 log, which pops up first, had the first digit of a 1. That is a definite incentive to just go back to sleep and let it keep doing what it is doing.  Better than Ambien.  Almost as good as Bourbon.  :) 

I'm in that period here in Florida where it rains too much but there are a few nights open with really still air, but the wind has not picked up as it does during the actual dry season. 

I did finally find enough nights in between rain to finish off the elephant trunk (here "finish" could be defined as "got tired of collecting data" moreso than "definitely got enough data" -- but let's not split hairs). 

This is at 2800mm in RGB + SHO (all rolled together).  It has 30s RGB stars, the color is more from broadband mixed with the narrow band, and all the detail is from 36 hours of narrow band data (vs only 5.9 of BB for color).  No luminance, just synthetic luminance from narrow band.  I went through a rainbow of color variations and settled here.

Criticism and suggestions welcomed.

Full size version: https://www.astrobin.com/85ed5q/0/

Linwood

PS. If you submit to the FDA, will Medicare then pay for the mounts? 


Re: M33 from CalStar 2022

Roland Christen
 

Very nice processing. What software are you using to process the image?

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Arvind <base16@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 1:02 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] M33 from CalStar 2022

Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.

Just shy of 3½ hours total, including an auto-meridian flip. Polar Alignment was less than a 1-arcmin, and guided using a 120mm guidescope. Guide settings were 600 for all values (Calib. step, Max RA & Dec duration) in ASIAIR.


Love this setup for portable multi-night imaging (I'm at a star party). Not a single sub lost out of the 100 subs from last night, and the image is not cropped, as well.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


M33 from CalStar 2022

Arvind
 

Shot using 900GTO & FSQ106 at f/5 with 2400MC Pro OSC camera, imaged using ASIAIR & an iOS app.

Just shy of 3½ hours total, including an auto-meridian flip. Polar Alignment was less than a 1-arcmin, and guided using a 120mm guidescope. Guide settings were 600 for all values (Calib. step, Max RA & Dec duration) in ASIAIR.


Love this setup for portable multi-night imaging (I'm at a star party). Not a single sub lost out of the 100 subs from last night, and the image is not cropped, as well.


Re: Elongated Stars Following Merdian Flip

Roland Christen
 


Everything works fine except for the first 5-minute frame following meridian flip, which is showing elongated stars.  Then, things settle down for the rest of the session. 
If the guiding is normal then the mount is doing what the guide program is telling it to do. The mount cannot know what the imaging scope is doing. The imaging scope may be flexing when pointing straight up after the flip. As long as the guiding is correct and accurate, that's all that the mount can do - it cannot compensate for differential flexure between imaging scope and guide scope.

The most accurate way to guide is with an off-axis guider. That way any flexure in the imaging scope is automatically resolved by the guiding software. You can never expect that a separate guide scope will eliminate errors of flexure in an imaging scope, no matter how well you think that things are connected. And this is especially true when the guide scope is connected to the rings instead of hard fixed to the focuser of the imaging scope.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2022 8:19 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Elongated Stars Following Merdian Flip

I recently replaced my Stellarvue with a Takahashi FSQ-85 EDX on top of my C11" EdgeHD.  The mount is an AP1100.  I've have used this setup the past 2 years with NINA with issues until I replaced the Stellarvue with the Tak.  Everything works fine except for the first 5-minute frame following meridian flip, which is showing elongated stars.  Then, things settle down for the rest of the session.  All screws are tight, scope is well-balanced, cables are managed through the mount with no snags, and I cannot find any loose parts. I use an Optec ThirdLynx auto-motor focuser on the Tak, similar to the one that I used on the Stellarvue.  I've heard stories in the past of the Tak focuser slipping but the Optec autofocuser has it locked in place.  I have not had time (weather-related) to test the C11 to see if it will start doing the same thing.  I do not think it is a mount issue but I am asking here just in case someone else has experienced this and what the potential causes could be.  I guess if the C11 now starts doing this, it could be a mount problem, but I find it suspicious that it only started happening when I swapped the scopes (along with the dovetail plate and support rings).  I've attached a couple of pics of the setup but they may not help much.  

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Bruce

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics