Date   

Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Robert Berta
 

I have both a AP 900 mount and a AP 1100 mount.I needed one additional weight (the 1100 needs a bit more CW than the 900 for the same load). The old weights had brass inserts....the new one is solid Stainless so no insert. I really didn't notice any issues with noise that would have been bothersome. But I am surprised that you see that as an issue....how about when slewing the mount! For me the slewing would be the louder noise. Perhaps the shaft or holes in the weights aren't correct and  make it a little tight. My friend has a 900 and 1200 mount. One of his shafts had a bit of a bow in the middle so wasn't machined right. That caused the weight to almost jam in the middle of its travel. If you have that issue you may want to give AP a call. In my friends case I ran his counterweight shaft in my metal late to get it back to spec. Alternatively you could take some wet and dry sandpaper and use it to take a bit of the "tooth" off the shaft and clean out the CW holes. Waxing should help also. 


encoders for 1600 is it worth it

lacour.morten
 

There is a 100$ discount on encoders for the 1600 mount presently at AP.
I have a 12" f/4 newton on this mount. The tube is carbon sandwich and spider and cell are both of good quality, yet there is still some minor mirror movement. I guide well on the system with QSI660 wsg-lodestar. Do you think I would get any improvement from the encoders (I mainly think wind gusts)? I doubt that I will get unguided 5 min subs due to the mirror system with its inherent flex and movement of the mirror?
After all it is a substantial investment

Morten



Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

steven ho
 

I recommend steel toes shoes.


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of badgerz49@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 2:23 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise
 
 

I tried a few things this morning without success.  Silicone lubricant didn't reduce the noise at all.  Vaseline eliminates the noise but only if it's gobbed on heavily across the shaft - it's too messy to be a realistic solution.  I also tried carnuba wax which helped but was too messy.  


I may try a candle wax or furniture wax next but I'm not optimistic.  Sanding the shaft and/or CW bore holes might work but I don't really want to be the guinea pig for that.  The good news is the weights remain securely in place even when using lubricant.

Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions.  Some of my neighbors use window fans instead of A/C. It can probably be heard even with windows closed though.  The police showed up last fall just from the noise of a handheld air puffer - a neighbor got spooked and thought someone was knocking on her door.  I remove seven weights each night and it can draw attention.



Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Chad A
 

I tried a few things this morning without success.  Silicone lubricant didn't reduce the noise at all.  Vaseline eliminates the noise but only if it's gobbed on heavily across the shaft - it's too messy to be a realistic solution.  I also tried carnuba wax which helped but was too messy.  

I may try a candle wax or furniture wax next but I'm not optimistic.  Sanding the shaft and/or CW bore holes might work but I don't really want to be the guinea pig for that.  The good news is the weights remain securely in place even when using lubricant.

Thanks for all of the comments and suggestions.  Some of my neighbors use window fans instead of A/C. It can probably be heard even with windows closed though.  The police showed up last fall just from the noise of a handheld air puffer - a neighbor got spooked and thought someone was knocking on her door.  I remove seven weights each night and it can draw attention.



Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Stephane,

Yes, refraction should be enabled.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2019 4:32 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves



I reply to me : Yessss, it works !
Just a last question (you have already answered but I don't find where) : I don't remember if you advise to check
"correct for refraction" or not ?

Regards
Stephane


Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 13:03, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :


Ray,

Sorry for my misunderstanding ...


It doesn't work with my (long) tests because I remove first 5-characters only for one line and not for all lines
(we are agree : I remove not replace by spaces).

Else, it is OK : columns B, C, F and G are always in JNow (I have personnal problem between J2000 and
JNow ;-))

Regards
Stephane




Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 11:55, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
gto@...> a écrit :





Hi Stephane,

> So Please, how calculate this code ?

There is no need to recalculate the line codes. As I said previously, just remove the codes from each
line.

Specifically, remove the first 5 characters in every line of the PNT file.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:26 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I am not at all familiar with CRC16 (Moreover, it exists many types of CRC16 codes if I have fine
understood).
>
> The "Model" box doesn't want to read my PNT file where is just changed columns (I,J) et line 15
from 1 to 0
> because of these 4-characters on the beginning of the line. I am just a user who is trying to solve
his problem with
> solving and I don't understand that I cannot easy change values of some parameters of each lines
of PNT files.
> It's already very complicated to make a model with an APGTO mount compared to some other
mounts of this level
> but here, with the CRC code, it's real sticks in the wheels for who does not really manage to use
PinPoint ! I can
> assure you that it is extremely simple with a 10μ mount or Nova120 mount for the one I know.
>
>
> So Please, how calculate this code ? For exemple, an URL where I can copy line after 100
modified lines (but
> which part of the line : before # or after #) ?
> Maybe you have a little software to compute again CRC code of each line of a modified PNT file ?
>
> Maybe you prefer that I send you the file once modified ?
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
>
> Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 16:09, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
>
> > If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> > which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file
>
> Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.
>
>
>
> It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew
J2000
> coordinates, isn't it ?
>
>
> So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates
in
> columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-)... I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in
yesterday file, line 15 of
> PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of
checksum
> because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).
>
>
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is
> terrible !
> >
> >
> > I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net,
the
> time is very long
> > as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky"
not
> checked, max
> > solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two
> catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> > catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to
use
> pinpoint without
> > all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not
> greater than
> > 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
> >
> > So, I have news questions about PNT file :
> >
> > 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East
> side. So I would
> > keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a
> problem if I take all
> > values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2
> files). The
> > "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
> >
> >
> > 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to
> change catalog for
> > a new solving or other detection parameters ?
> >
> > 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000
> for center of field.
> > If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on
> columns B, C, F, G, I
> > and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F
and
> G values of
> > J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> > Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with
> PinPoint, I don't check
> > "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order
to
> change values
> > of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
> >
> >
> > 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very
near
> meridian and a
> > field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after
> declination. For
> > example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA
> with orthogonality
> > error)..
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Thank you for your help (and your patience).
> >
> >
> > I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even
> images with
> > failed solving.
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> > gto@...> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephane,
> >
> > > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> > That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
> >
> > http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-
> Catalogs-
> > (Updated-May-2018)
> >
> > Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
> >
> > http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
> >
> > For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is
> recommended.
> >
> > >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at
> 80%),
> >
> > If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> > solving slower and possibly unreliable.
> >
> > > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
> >
> > Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a
spiral
> > search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky
> solve to get the
> > initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
> >
> > > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > > at 0.689 sec
> >
> > If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> > indicate was returned from PinPoint?
> >
> > If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> > corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
> >
> > > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> > You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download
time
> is
> > not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following
image.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro- <http://www..astro->
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
<https://www..siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > >
> > > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the
> same), I
> > think I have
> > > understood the failure of my solves.
> > >
> > > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than
with
> > USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally
> given
> > them to it,
> > > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved
> without
> > having to use
> > > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long
> duration
> > spiral search!
> > >
> > >
> > > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field
with
> > refractor : in fact no
> > > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> > >
> > > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at
> 80%),
> > the spiral
> > > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow
> down
> > computing ... and
> > > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you
> slew
> > from Zenith to
> > > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East
to
> > West ... Yes, I have
> > > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the
only
> > reason I use a
> > > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I
> don't
> > care this !) ...
> > >
> > >
> > > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> > calculates each
> > > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> > because I can define
> > > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search
> ...
> > About "max
> > > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand
> PinPoint
> > stops researchs
> > > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at
> 0.689
> > sec ...).
> > >
> > > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150
> sec !
> > Even with near
> > > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net <http://nova.astrometry..net> (internet) or in local
with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> > you imagine time
> > > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it
> works
> > on 95% of case
> > > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> > search. But PRiSM
> > > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and
the
> > same in apparent
> > > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of
> making
> > model with my
> > > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field
pointed,
> if a
> > sync telescope
> > > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after
> field
> > so after 10
> > > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical
> studies
> > also), it takes
> > > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> > >
> > >
> > > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ...
> After
> > all, as I auto-
> > > guide ...
> > > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not
> sure of
> > sucess).
> > > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> > >
> > > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for
couple
> > 16803 - FSQ 106
> > > !
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www..siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ray,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > > >
> > > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > > >
> > > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to
do
> a
> > spiral
> > > search until
> > > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> > already good
> > > help of
> > > > software).
> > > >
> > > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search ...
> > > But if it
> > > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can
find
> in
> > Visual
> > > PinPoint for
> > > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> > have already
> > > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> > > gto@...> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Stephane,
> > > >
> > > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > > >
> > > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because
it
> > only goes
> > > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by
> USNO
> > A2.0
> > > because it
> > > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > > >
> > > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > >
> > > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral
search
> so
> > you are
> > > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread
> performance
> > and a
> > > fast SSD to
> > > > store the catalog.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if
you
> > enable the
> > > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > > >
> > > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > > >
> > > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > > >
> > > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > > >
> > > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP
address
> > and port of
> > > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple
available).
> > Just do an
> > > internet
> > > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > > >
> > > > -Ray Gralak
> > > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Ray,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > > >
> > > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field.
> With
> > my
> > > > planetarium
> > > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> > resolution but
> > > text
> > > > file of
> > > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I
> want
> > hope to
> > > > solve about
> > > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300
> sec !
> > (I think it
> > > > will be
> > > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and
most
> of
> > cases
> > > bad,
> > > > and why
> > > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of
cases
> ...
> > > > >
> > > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in
(Visual)
> > PinPoint ? I
> > > > don't think
> > > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without
internet
> > connection
> > > ?
> > > > So
> > > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with
> PinPoint
> > and
> > > without
> > > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Stephane
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>




Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Stephane Charbonnel
 

I reply to me : Yessss, it works !
Just a last question (you have already answered but I don't find where) : I don't remember if you advise to check "correct for refraction" or not ?

Regards
Stephane


Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 13:03, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
Ray,

Sorry for my misunderstanding ...

It doesn't work with my (long) tests because I remove first 5-characters only for one line and not for all lines (we are agree : I remove not replace by spaces).

Else, it is OK : columns B, C, F and G are always in JNow (I have personnal problem between J2000 and JNow ;-))

Regards
Stephane



Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 11:55, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> a écrit :
 

Hi Stephane,

> So Please, how calculate this code ?

There is no need to recalculate the line codes. As I said previously, just remove the codes from each line.

Specifically, remove the first 5 characters in every line of the PNT file.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:26 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I am not at all familiar with CRC16 (Moreover, it exists many types of CRC16 codes if I have fine understood).
>
> The "Model" box doesn't want to read my PNT file where is just changed columns (I,J) et line 15 from 1 to 0
> because of these 4-characters on the beginning of the line. I am just a user who is trying to solve his problem with
> solving and I don't understand that I cannot easy change values of some parameters of each lines of PNT files.
> It's already very complicated to make a model with an APGTO mount compared to some other mounts of this level
> but here, with the CRC code, it's real sticks in the wheels for who does not really manage to use PinPoint ! I can
> assure you that it is extremely simple with a 10μ mount or Nova120 mount for the one I know.
>
>
> So Please, how calculate this code ? For exemple, an URL where I can copy line after 100 modified lines (but
> which part of the line : before # or after #) ?
> Maybe you have a little software to compute again CRC code of each line of a modified PNT file ?
>
> Maybe you prefer that I send you the file once modified ?
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
>
> Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 16:09, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
>
> > If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> > which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file
>
> Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.
>
>
>
> It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000
> coordinates, isn't it ?
>
>
> So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in
> columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-).. I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of
> PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum
> because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).
>
>
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is
> terrible !
> >
> >
> > I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the
> time is very long
> > as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not
> checked, max
> > solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two
> catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> > catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use
> pinpoint without
> > all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not
> greater than
> > 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
> >
> > So, I have news questions about PNT file :
> >
> > 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East
> side. So I would
> > keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a
> problem if I take all
> > values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2
> files). The
> > "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
> >
> >
> > 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to
> change catalog for
> > a new solving or other detection parameters ?
> >
> > 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000
> for center of field.
> > If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on
> columns B, C, F, G, I
> > and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and
> G values of
> > J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> > Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with
> PinPoint, I don't check
> > "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to
> change values
> > of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
> >
> >
> > 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near
> meridian and a
> > field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after
> declination. For
> > example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA
> with orthogonality
> > error)..
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Thank you for your help (and your patience).
> >
> >
> > I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even
> images with
> > failed solving.
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > gto@...> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephane,
> >
> > > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> > That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
> >
> > http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-
> Catalogs-
> > (Updated-May-2018)
> >
> > Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
> >
> > http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
> >
> > For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is
> recommended.
> >
> > >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at
> 80%),
> >
> > If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> > solving slower and possibly unreliable.
> >
> > > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
> >
> > Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> > search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky
> solve to get the
> > initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
> >
> > > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > > at 0.689 sec
> >
> > If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> > indicate was returned from PinPoint?
> >
> > If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> > corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
> >
> > > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> > You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time
> is
> > not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro- <http://www..astro->
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > >
> > > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the
> same), I
> > think I have
> > > understood the failure of my solves.
> > >
> > > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> > USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally
> given
> > them to it,
> > > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved
> without
> > having to use
> > > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long
> duration
> > spiral search!
> > >
> > >
> > > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> > refractor : in fact no
> > > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> > >
> > > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at
> 80%),
> > the spiral
> > > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow
> down
> > computing ... and
> > > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you
> slew
> > from Zenith to
> > > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> > West ... Yes, I have
> > > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> > reason I use a
> > > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I
> don't
> > care this !) ...
> > >
> > >
> > > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> > calculates each
> > > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> > because I can define
> > > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search
> ...
> > About "max
> > > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand
> PinPoint
> > stops researchs
> > > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at
> 0.689
> > sec ...).
> > >
> > > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150
> sec !
> > Even with near
> > > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> > you imagine time
> > > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it
> works
> > on 95% of case
> > > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> > search. But PRiSM
> > > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> > same in apparent
> > > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of
> making
> > model with my
> > > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed,
> if a
> > sync telescope
> > > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after
> field
> > so after 10
> > > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical
> studies
> > also), it takes
> > > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> > >
> > >
> > > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ...
> After
> > all, as I auto-
> > > guide ...
> > > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not
> sure of
> > sucess).
> > > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> > >
> > > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> > 16803 - FSQ 106
> > > !
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www..siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ray,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > > >
> > > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > > >
> > > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do
> a
> > spiral
> > > search until
> > > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> > already good
> > > help of
> > > > software).
> > > >
> > > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search ...
> > > But if it
> > > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find
> in
> > Visual
> > > PinPoint for
> > > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> > have already
> > > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > > gto@...> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Stephane,
> > > >
> > > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > > >
> > > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> > only goes
> > > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by
> USNO
> > A2.0
> > > because it
> > > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > > >
> > > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > >
> > > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search
> so
> > you are
> > > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread
> performance
> > and a
> > > fast SSD to
> > > > store the catalog.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> > enable the
> > > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > > >
> > > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > > >
> > > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > > >
> > > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > > >
> > > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> > and port of
> > > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> > Just do an
> > > internet
> > > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > > >
> > > > -Ray Gralak
> > > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Ray,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > > >
> > > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field.
> With
> > my
> > > > planetarium
> > > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> > resolution but
> > > text
> > > > file of
> > > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I
> want
> > hope to
> > > > solve about
> > > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300
> sec !
> > (I think it
> > > > will be
> > > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most
> of
> > cases
> > > bad,
> > > > and why
> > > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases
> ...
> > > > >
> > > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> > PinPoint ? I
> > > > don't think
> > > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> > connection
> > > ?
> > > > So
> > > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with
> PinPoint
> > and
> > > without
> > > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Stephane
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Stephane Charbonnel
 

Ray,

Sorry for my misunderstanding ...

It doesn't work with my (long) tests because I remove first 5-characters only for one line and not for all lines (we are agree : I remove not replace by spaces).

Else, it is OK : columns B, C, F and G are always in JNow (I have personnal problem between J2000 and JNow ;-))

Regards
Stephane



Le jeu. 20 juin 2019 à 11:55, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> a écrit :
 

Hi Stephane,

> So Please, how calculate this code ?

There is no need to recalculate the line codes. As I said previously, just remove the codes from each line.

Specifically, remove the first 5 characters in every line of the PNT file.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:26 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I am not at all familiar with CRC16 (Moreover, it exists many types of CRC16 codes if I have fine understood).
>
> The "Model" box doesn't want to read my PNT file where is just changed columns (I,J) et line 15 from 1 to 0
> because of these 4-characters on the beginning of the line. I am just a user who is trying to solve his problem with
> solving and I don't understand that I cannot easy change values of some parameters of each lines of PNT files.
> It's already very complicated to make a model with an APGTO mount compared to some other mounts of this level
> but here, with the CRC code, it's real sticks in the wheels for who does not really manage to use PinPoint ! I can
> assure you that it is extremely simple with a 10μ mount or Nova120 mount for the one I know.
>
>
> So Please, how calculate this code ? For exemple, an URL where I can copy line after 100 modified lines (but
> which part of the line : before # or after #) ?
> Maybe you have a little software to compute again CRC code of each line of a modified PNT file ?
>
> Maybe you prefer that I send you the file once modified ?
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
>
> Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 16:09, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
>
> > If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> > which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file
>
> Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.
>
>
>
> It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000
> coordinates, isn't it ?
>
>
> So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in
> columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-).. I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of
> PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum
> because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).
>
>
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is
> terrible !
> >
> >
> > I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the
> time is very long
> > as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not
> checked, max
> > solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two
> catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> > catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use
> pinpoint without
> > all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not
> greater than
> > 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
> >
> > So, I have news questions about PNT file :
> >
> > 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East
> side. So I would
> > keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a
> problem if I take all
> > values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2
> files). The
> > "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
> >
> >
> > 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to
> change catalog for
> > a new solving or other detection parameters ?
> >
> > 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000
> for center of field.
> > If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on
> columns B, C, F, G, I
> > and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and
> G values of
> > J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> > Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with
> PinPoint, I don't check
> > "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to
> change values
> > of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
> >
> >
> > 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near
> meridian and a
> > field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after
> declination. For
> > example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA
> with orthogonality
> > error)..
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Thank you for your help (and your patience).
> >
> >
> > I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even
> images with
> > failed solving.
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > gto@...> a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephane,
> >
> > > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> > That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
> >
> > http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-
> Catalogs-
> > (Updated-May-2018)
> >
> > Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
> >
> > http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
> >
> > For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is
> recommended.
> >
> > >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at
> 80%),
> >
> > If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> > solving slower and possibly unreliable.
> >
> > > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
> >
> > Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> > search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky
> solve to get the
> > initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
> >
> > > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > > at 0.689 sec
> >
> > If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> > indicate was returned from PinPoint?
> >
> > If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> > corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
> >
> > > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> > You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time
> is
> > not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro- <http://www..astro->
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > >
> > > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the
> same), I
> > think I have
> > > understood the failure of my solves.
> > >
> > > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> > USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally
> given
> > them to it,
> > > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved
> without
> > having to use
> > > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long
> duration
> > spiral search!
> > >
> > >
> > > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> > refractor : in fact no
> > > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> > >
> > > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at
> 80%),
> > the spiral
> > > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow
> down
> > computing ... and
> > > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you
> slew
> > from Zenith to
> > > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> > West ... Yes, I have
> > > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> > reason I use a
> > > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I
> don't
> > care this !) ...
> > >
> > >
> > > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> > calculates each
> > > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> > because I can define
> > > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search
> ...
> > About "max
> > > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand
> PinPoint
> > stops researchs
> > > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at
> 0.689
> > sec ...).
> > >
> > > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150
> sec !
> > Even with near
> > > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> > you imagine time
> > > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it
> works
> > on 95% of case
> > > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> > search. But PRiSM
> > > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> > same in apparent
> > > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of
> making
> > model with my
> > > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed,
> if a
> > sync telescope
> > > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after
> field
> > so after 10
> > > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical
> studies
> > also), it takes
> > > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> > >
> > >
> > > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ...
> After
> > all, as I auto-
> > > guide ...
> > > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not
> sure of
> > sucess).
> > > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> > >
> > > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> > 16803 - FSQ 106
> > > !
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www..siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Ray,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > > >
> > > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > > >
> > > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do
> a
> > spiral
> > > search until
> > > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> > already good
> > > help of
> > > > software).
> > > >
> > > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search ...
> > > But if it
> > > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find
> in
> > Visual
> > > PinPoint for
> > > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> > have already
> > > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > > gto@...> a
> > > > écrit :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Stephane,
> > > >
> > > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > > >
> > > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> > only goes
> > > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by
> USNO
> > A2.0
> > > because it
> > > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > > >
> > > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > >
> > > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search
> so
> > you are
> > > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread
> performance
> > and a
> > > fast SSD to
> > > > store the catalog.
> > > >
> > > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> > enable the
> > > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > > >
> > > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > > >
> > > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > > >
> > > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > > >
> > > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > > >
> > > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> > and port of
> > > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> > Just do an
> > > internet
> > > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > > >
> > > > -Ray Gralak
> > > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Ray,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > > >
> > > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field.
> With
> > my
> > > > planetarium
> > > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> > resolution but
> > > text
> > > > file of
> > > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I
> want
> > hope to
> > > > solve about
> > > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300
> sec !
> > (I think it
> > > > will be
> > > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most
> of
> > cases
> > > bad,
> > > > and why
> > > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases
> ...
> > > > >
> > > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> > PinPoint ? I
> > > > don't think
> > > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> > connection
> > > ?
> > > > So
> > > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with
> PinPoint
> > and
> > > without
> > > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Stephane
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Ray Gralak
 

It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000
coordinates, isn't it ?
No, those columns are always local apparent (JNow), not J2000.0.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 7:09 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves



Hi Ray,


> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file

Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.



It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000
coordinates, isn't it ?


So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in columns
(I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-). I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of PNT
file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum because I
don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).



Regards
Stephane



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is terrible !
>
>
> I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is
very long
> as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not
checked, max
> solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two catalogs),
sigma = 1.6,
> catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use
pinpoint without
> all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not greater
than
> 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
>
> So, I have news questions about PNT file :
>
> 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East side. So I
would
> keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I
take all
> values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2 files).
The
> "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
>
>
> 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change
catalog for
> a new solving or other detection parameters ?
>
> 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000 for
center of field.
> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on columns B,
C, F, G, I
> and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and G
values of
> J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with PinPoint, I
don't check
> "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to
change values
> of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
>
>
> 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near
meridian and a
> field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after
declination. For
> example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with
orthogonality
> error)..
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Thank you for your help (and your patience).
>
>
> I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even images with
> failed solving.
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> gto@...> a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
> That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
>
> http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-Catalogs-
> (Updated-May-2018)
>
> Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
>
> http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
>
> For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is recommended.
>
> >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at 80%),
>
> If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> solving slower and possibly unreliable.
>
> > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
>
> Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky solve to
get the
> initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
>
> > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > at 0.689 sec
>
> If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> indicate was returned from PinPoint?
>
> If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
>
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
> You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time is
> not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro- <http://www..astro->
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> >
> > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the same), I
> think I have
> > understood the failure of my solves.
> >
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> >
> >
> > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally given
> them to it,
> > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved without
> having to use
> > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long duration
> spiral search!
> >
> >
> > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> refractor : in fact no
> > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> >
> > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at 80%),
> the spiral
> > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down
> computing ... and
> > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you slew
> from Zenith to
> > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> West ... Yes, I have
> > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> reason I use a
> > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I don't
> care this !) ...
> >
> >
> > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> calculates each
> > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> because I can define
> > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search ...
> About "max
> > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand PinPoint
> stops researchs
> > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at 0.689
> sec ...).
> >
> > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150 sec !
> Even with near
> > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> you imagine time
> > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it works
> on 95% of case
> > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> search. But PRiSM
> > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> same in apparent
> > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of making
> model with my
> > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed, if a
> sync telescope
> > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after field
> so after 10
> > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical studies
> also), it takes
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> >
> > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ... After
> all, as I auto-
> > guide ...
> > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not sure of
> sucess).
> > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> >
> > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> 16803 - FSQ 106
> > !
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
<https://www..siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > >
> > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > >
> > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search until
> > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> already good
> > help of
> > > software).
> > >
> > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a spiral
> search ...
> > But if it
> > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find in
> Visual
> > PinPoint for
> > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> have already
> > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> > gto@...> a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephane,
> > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> only goes
> > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by USNO
> A2.0
> > because it
> > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > >
> > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > >
> > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search so
> you are
> > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread performance
> and a
> > fast SSD to
> > > store the catalog.
> > >
> > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> enable the
> > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > >
> > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > >
> > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > >
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > >
> > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> and port of
> > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> Just do an
> > internet
> > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Ray,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field. With
> my
> > > planetarium
> > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> resolution but
> > text
> > > file of
> > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I want
> hope to
> > > solve about
> > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> (I think it
> > > will be
> > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most of
> cases
> > bad,
> > > and why
> > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases ...
> > > >
> > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> PinPoint ? I
> > > don't think
> > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> connection
> > ?
> > > So
> > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with PinPoint
> and
> > without
> > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>




Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Stephane,

So Please, how calculate this code ?
There is no need to recalculate the line codes. As I said previously, just remove the codes from each line.

Specifically, remove the first 5 characters in every line of the PNT file.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:26 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves



Hi Ray,

I am not at all familiar with CRC16 (Moreover, it exists many types of CRC16 codes if I have fine understood).

The "Model" box doesn't want to read my PNT file where is just changed columns (I,J) et line 15 from 1 to 0
because of these 4-characters on the beginning of the line. I am just a user who is trying to solve his problem with
solving and I don't understand that I cannot easy change values of some parameters of each lines of PNT files.
It's already very complicated to make a model with an APGTO mount compared to some other mounts of this level
but here, with the CRC code, it's real sticks in the wheels for who does not really manage to use PinPoint ! I can
assure you that it is extremely simple with a 10μ mount or Nova120 mount for the one I know.


So Please, how calculate this code ? For exemple, an URL where I can copy line after 100 modified lines (but
which part of the line : before # or after #) ?
Maybe you have a little software to compute again CRC code of each line of a modified PNT file ?

Maybe you prefer that I send you the file once modified ?


Best regards
Stephane



Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 16:09, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :


Hi Ray,


> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file

Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.



It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000
coordinates, isn't it ?


So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in
columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-). I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of
PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum
because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).



Regards
Stephane



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is
terrible !
>
>
> I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the
time is very long
> as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not
checked, max
> solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two
catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use
pinpoint without
> all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not
greater than
> 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
>
> So, I have news questions about PNT file :
>
> 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East
side. So I would
> keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a
problem if I take all
> values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2
files). The
> "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
>
>
> 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to
change catalog for
> a new solving or other detection parameters ?
>
> 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000
for center of field.
> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on
columns B, C, F, G, I
> and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and
G values of
> J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with
PinPoint, I don't check
> "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to
change values
> of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
>
>
> 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near
meridian and a
> field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after
declination. For
> example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA
with orthogonality
> error)..
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Thank you for your help (and your patience).
>
>
> I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even
images with
> failed solving.
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> gto@...> a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
> That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
>
> http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-
Catalogs-
> (Updated-May-2018)
>
> Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
>
> http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
>
> For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is
recommended.
>
> >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at
80%),
>
> If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> solving slower and possibly unreliable.
>
> > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
>
> Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky
solve to get the
> initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
>
> > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > at 0.689 sec
>
> If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> indicate was returned from PinPoint?
>
> If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
>
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
> You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time
is
> not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro- <http://www..astro->
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> >
> > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the
same), I
> think I have
> > understood the failure of my solves.
> >
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> >
> >
> > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally
given
> them to it,
> > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved
without
> having to use
> > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long
duration
> spiral search!
> >
> >
> > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> refractor : in fact no
> > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> >
> > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at
80%),
> the spiral
> > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow
down
> computing ... and
> > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you
slew
> from Zenith to
> > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> West ... Yes, I have
> > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> reason I use a
> > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I
don't
> care this !) ...
> >
> >
> > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> calculates each
> > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> because I can define
> > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search
...
> About "max
> > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand
PinPoint
> stops researchs
> > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at
0.689
> sec ...).
> >
> > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150
sec !
> Even with near
> > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> you imagine time
> > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it
works
> on 95% of case
> > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> search. But PRiSM
> > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> same in apparent
> > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of
making
> model with my
> > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed,
if a
> sync telescope
> > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after
field
> so after 10
> > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical
studies
> also), it takes
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> >
> > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ...
After
> all, as I auto-
> > guide ...
> > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not
sure of
> sucess).
> > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> >
> > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> 16803 - FSQ 106
> > !
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
<https://www..siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > >
> > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > >
> > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do
a
> spiral
> > search until
> > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> already good
> > help of
> > > software).
> > >
> > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a
spiral
> search ...
> > But if it
> > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find
in
> Visual
> > PinPoint for
> > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> have already
> > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> > gto@...> a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephane,
> > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> only goes
> > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by
USNO
> A2.0
> > because it
> > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > >
> > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > >
> > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search
so
> you are
> > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread
performance
> and a
> > fast SSD to
> > > store the catalog.
> > >
> > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> enable the
> > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > >
> > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > >
> > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > >
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > >
> > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> and port of
> > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> Just do an
> > internet
> > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Ray,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field.
With
> my
> > > planetarium
> > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> resolution but
> > text
> > > file of
> > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I
want
> hope to
> > > solve about
> > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300
sec !
> (I think it
> > > will be
> > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most
of
> cases
> > bad,
> > > and why
> > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases
...
> > > >
> > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> PinPoint ? I
> > > don't think
> > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> connection
> > ?
> > > So
> > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with
PinPoint
> and
> > without
> > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>




Re: CN questions from a new user

Ross Salinger <rgsalinger@...>
 

The existing computer seems to have had a hard life. It has tons of applications on it that are not used and would never be used. It's also Win7 and all the other computers I use are Win10.  I only need to move over 4 applications - the APCC, SKYX, MaximDL and ACP. Those all have directories or profiles that are moveable and loadable. Other than that, it's just a matter of getting the right drivers in place.

Rgrds-Ross


On 6/19/2019 5:53 PM, deanjacobsen@... [ap-gto] wrote:

 

Can you just back up the “bad” computer and then restore it to the new one?


Re: CN questions from a new user

Dean Jacobsen
 

Can you just back up the “bad” computer and then restore it to the new one?


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Mike Dodd
 

On 6/19/2019 1:36 PM, badgerz49@... [ap-gto] wrote:


Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise
due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft. Does anyone know of a way
to reduce this noise?
I can suggest three ways:

* Silicone spray
* Canning wax from the grocery store (or candle wax)
* E.F. Johnson furniture wax (rub on, let dry, rub off)

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com


Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Stephane Charbonnel
 

Hi Ray,

I am not at all familiar with CRC16 (Moreover, it exists many types of CRC16 codes if I have fine understood).

The "Model" box doesn't want to read my PNT file where is just changed columns (I,J) et line 15 from 1 to 0 because of these 4-characters on the beginning of the line. I am just a user who is trying to solve his problem with solving  and I don't understand that I cannot easy change values of some parameters of each lines of PNT files.
It's already very complicated to make a model with an APGTO mount compared to some other mounts of this level but here, with the CRC code, it's real sticks in the wheels for who does not really manage to use PinPoint ! I can assure you that it is extremely simple with a 10μ mount or Nova120 mount for the one I know.

So Please, how calculate this code ? For exemple, an URL where I can copy line after 100 modified lines (but which part of the line : before # or after #) ?
Maybe you have a little software to compute again CRC code of each line of a modified PNT file ?
Maybe you prefer that I send you the file once modified ?

Best regards
Stephane


Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 16:09, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
Hi Ray,

> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file

Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.


It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000 coordinates, isn't it ?

So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-). I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).

Regards
Stephane

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is terrible !
>
>
> I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is very long
> as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not checked, max
> solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use pinpoint without
> all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not greater than
> 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
>
> So, I have news questions about PNT file :
>
> 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East side. So I would
> keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I take all
> values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2 files). The
> "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
>
>
> 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change catalog for
> a new solving or other detection parameters ?
>
> 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000 for center of field.
> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I
> and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and G values of
> J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with PinPoint, I don't check
> "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to change values
> of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
>
>
> 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near meridian and a
> field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after declination. For
> example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with orthogonality
> error)..
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Thank you for your help (and your patience).
>
>
> I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even images with
> failed solving.
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > gto@...> a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
> That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
>
> http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-Catalogs-
> (Updated-May-2018)
>
> Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
>
> http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
>
> For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is recommended.
>
> >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at 80%),
>
> If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> solving slower and possibly unreliable.
>
> > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
>
> Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky solve to get the
> initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
>
> > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > at 0.689 sec
>
> If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> indicate was returned from PinPoint?
>
> If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
>
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
> You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time is
> not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> >
> > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the same), I
> think I have
> > understood the failure of my solves.
> >
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> >
> >
> > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally given
> them to it,
> > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved without
> having to use
> > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long duration
> spiral search!
> >
> >
> > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> refractor : in fact no
> > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> >
> > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at 80%),
> the spiral
> > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down
> computing ... and
> > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you slew
> from Zenith to
> > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> West ... Yes, I have
> > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> reason I use a
> > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I don't
> care this !) ...
> >
> >
> > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> calculates each
> > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> because I can define
> > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search ...
> About "max
> > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand PinPoint
> stops researchs
> > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at 0.689
> sec ...).
> >
> > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150 sec !
> Even with near
> > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> you imagine time
> > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it works
> on 95% of case
> > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> search. But PRiSM
> > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> same in apparent
> > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of making
> model with my
> > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed, if a
> sync telescope
> > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after field
> so after 10
> > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical studies
> also), it takes
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> >
> > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ... After
> all, as I auto-
> > guide ...
> > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not sure of
> sucess).
> > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> >
> > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> 16803 - FSQ 106
> > !
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > >
> > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > >
> > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search until
> > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> already good
> > help of
> > > software).
> > >
> > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a spiral
> search ...
> > But if it
> > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find in
> Visual
> > PinPoint for
> > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> have already
> > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > gto@...> a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephane,
> > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> only goes
> > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by USNO
> A2.0
> > because it
> > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > >
> > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > >
> > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search so
> you are
> > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread performance
> and a
> > fast SSD to
> > > store the catalog.
> > >
> > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> enable the
> > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > >
> > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > >
> > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > >
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > >
> > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> and port of
> > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> Just do an
> > internet
> > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Ray,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field. With
> my
> > > planetarium
> > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> resolution but
> > text
> > > file of
> > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I want
> hope to
> > > solve about
> > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> (I think it
> > > will be
> > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most of
> cases
> > bad,
> > > and why
> > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases ...
> > > >
> > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> PinPoint ? I
> > > don't think
> > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> connection
> > ?
> > > So
> > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with PinPoint
> and
> > without
> > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

DFisch
 

So Michael this noise is the Canary in the coal mine for your neighbors? Pretty good deal

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 15:09 mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.




Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

mike.hambrick@...
 

If your counterweights have the bronze inserts they will not make much noise sliding on and off the shaft. I think the older versions of counterweights for the 1.875" shaft had these inserts, and I think that you can still get the counterweights for the 1.125" shaft (900 mount ??) with the bushings.

To be honest, If you never had any counterweights that had the bronze bushings, you would probably not notice the noise.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Joe Zeglinski
 

Greg,
 
    Agree with you – my AP-900 and AP-1200 counterweights do not squeak either – and they do have bronze bushings, I thought they all did over the years.
 
    If they are a problem on some shafts, why not try waxing the shaft with Carnuba Car Wax  or Nu Finish, etc.
 
    We often get overly concerned about causing noise on a calm, dead quiet night in summer. Besides, noise like light,  obeys the “inverse square rule” – the noise the neighbour actually hears, if he is at twice one’s distance from the scope in the backyard,  is only 1/4 in intensity of what you might deem worrisome or personally objectionable. In all likelihood, his windows are probably closed, and his (or your outdoor) air conditioner compressor will muffle the  noise from squeaky sliding counterweights, if any.
 
Joe


Re: CN questions from a new user

Dale Ghent
 

On Jun 19, 2019, at 10:41 AM, rgsalinger@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

In just one day on this forum I went from a system that wasn't guiding properly, wasn't pointing properly and was throwing errors every time I tried to park to one that works perfectly now. Not bad at all.

My next question is how can I transfer all of the settings in APCC and the Ascom driver over to a new computer? Are these stored in some directory I can access. This would/should include the existing pointing model. Our old computer won't boot up without help and I'm replacing it next week at the remote site.
For both APCC and the ASCOM driver, the contents of:

C:&#92;ProgramData&#92;Astro-Physics

will be want you want copy to the other PC.

/dale


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Stone, Jack G
 

What I use is a silicone surface treatment – super lube

There is no residue or out gassing.

Keeps the shaft looking new and no noise, but note this is on my G11

Still looking for a lightly used 1200 J

 

Jack ~

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:04 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise

 

 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO

TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.

 


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Jeffc
 

I have an AP1100 , AP1200 and previously AP900 and never noticed the noise. 
But then I have (now defunct) Robin Cassidy weights which have the bronze insert.  

Hmm


On Jun 19, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Astronutcase astronutcase@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

Am I the only one that’s never noticed that noise? (AP900)

Greg

On Jun 19, 2019, at 3:04 PM, mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@arlanxeo..com




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.




Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Greg Salyer
 

Am I the only one that’s never noticed that noise? (AP900)

Greg

On Jun 19, 2019, at 3:04 PM, mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.