Date   

Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Mike Dodd
 

On 6/19/2019 1:36 PM, badgerz49@... [ap-gto] wrote:


Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise
due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft. Does anyone know of a way
to reduce this noise?
I can suggest three ways:

* Silicone spray
* Canning wax from the grocery store (or candle wax)
* E.F. Johnson furniture wax (rub on, let dry, rub off)

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
Louisa County, Virginia USA
http://astronomy.mdodd.com


Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Stephane Charbonnel
 

Hi Ray,

I am not at all familiar with CRC16 (Moreover, it exists many types of CRC16 codes if I have fine understood).

The "Model" box doesn't want to read my PNT file where is just changed columns (I,J) et line 15 from 1 to 0 because of these 4-characters on the beginning of the line. I am just a user who is trying to solve his problem with solving  and I don't understand that I cannot easy change values of some parameters of each lines of PNT files.
It's already very complicated to make a model with an APGTO mount compared to some other mounts of this level but here, with the CRC code, it's real sticks in the wheels for who does not really manage to use PinPoint ! I can assure you that it is extremely simple with a 10μ mount or Nova120 mount for the one I know.

So Please, how calculate this code ? For exemple, an URL where I can copy line after 100 modified lines (but which part of the line : before # or after #) ?
Maybe you have a little software to compute again CRC code of each line of a modified PNT file ?
Maybe you prefer that I send you the file once modified ?

Best regards
Stephane


Le mer. 19 juin 2019 à 16:09, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
Hi Ray,

> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file

Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.


It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000 coordinates, isn't it ?

So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-). I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).

Regards
Stephane

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is terrible !
>
>
> I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is very long
> as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not checked, max
> solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use pinpoint without
> all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not greater than
> 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
>
> So, I have news questions about PNT file :
>
> 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East side. So I would
> keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I take all
> values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2 files). The
> "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
>
>
> 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change catalog for
> a new solving or other detection parameters ?
>
> 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000 for center of field.
> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I
> and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and G values of
> J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with PinPoint, I don't check
> "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to change values
> of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
>
>
> 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near meridian and a
> field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after declination. For
> example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with orthogonality
> error)..
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Thank you for your help (and your patience).
>
>
> I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even images with
> failed solving.
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > gto@...> a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
> That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
>
> http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-Catalogs-
> (Updated-May-2018)
>
> Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
>
> http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
>
> For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is recommended.
>
> >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at 80%),
>
> If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> solving slower and possibly unreliable.
>
> > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
>
> Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky solve to get the
> initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
>
> > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > at 0.689 sec
>
> If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> indicate was returned from PinPoint?
>
> If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
>
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
> You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time is
> not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> >
> > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the same), I
> think I have
> > understood the failure of my solves.
> >
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> >
> >
> > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally given
> them to it,
> > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved without
> having to use
> > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long duration
> spiral search!
> >
> >
> > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> refractor : in fact no
> > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> >
> > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at 80%),
> the spiral
> > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down
> computing ... and
> > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you slew
> from Zenith to
> > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> West ... Yes, I have
> > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> reason I use a
> > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I don't
> care this !) ...
> >
> >
> > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> calculates each
> > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> because I can define
> > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search ...
> About "max
> > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand PinPoint
> stops researchs
> > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at 0.689
> sec ...).
> >
> > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150 sec !
> Even with near
> > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> you imagine time
> > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it works
> on 95% of case
> > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> search. But PRiSM
> > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> same in apparent
> > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of making
> model with my
> > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed, if a
> sync telescope
> > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after field
> so after 10
> > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical studies
> also), it takes
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> >
> > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ... After
> all, as I auto-
> > guide ...
> > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not sure of
> sucess).
> > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> >
> > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> 16803 - FSQ 106
> > !
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > >
> > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > >
> > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search until
> > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> already good
> > help of
> > > software).
> > >
> > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a spiral
> search ...
> > But if it
> > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find in
> Visual
> > PinPoint for
> > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> have already
> > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > gto@...> a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephane,
> > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> only goes
> > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by USNO
> A2.0
> > because it
> > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > >
> > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > >
> > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search so
> you are
> > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread performance
> and a
> > fast SSD to
> > > store the catalog.
> > >
> > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> enable the
> > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > >
> > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > >
> > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > >
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > >
> > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> and port of
> > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> Just do an
> > internet
> > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Ray,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field. With
> my
> > > planetarium
> > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> resolution but
> > text
> > > file of
> > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I want
> hope to
> > > solve about
> > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> (I think it
> > > will be
> > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most of
> cases
> > bad,
> > > and why
> > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases ...
> > > >
> > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> PinPoint ? I
> > > don't think
> > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> connection
> > ?
> > > So
> > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with PinPoint
> and
> > without
> > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

DFisch
 

So Michael this noise is the Canary in the coal mine for your neighbors? Pretty good deal

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 15:09 mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.




Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

mike.hambrick@...
 

If your counterweights have the bronze inserts they will not make much noise sliding on and off the shaft. I think the older versions of counterweights for the 1.875" shaft had these inserts, and I think that you can still get the counterweights for the 1.125" shaft (900 mount ??) with the bushings.

To be honest, If you never had any counterweights that had the bronze bushings, you would probably not notice the noise.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Joe Zeglinski
 

Greg,
 
    Agree with you – my AP-900 and AP-1200 counterweights do not squeak either – and they do have bronze bushings, I thought they all did over the years.
 
    If they are a problem on some shafts, why not try waxing the shaft with Carnuba Car Wax  or Nu Finish, etc.
 
    We often get overly concerned about causing noise on a calm, dead quiet night in summer. Besides, noise like light,  obeys the “inverse square rule” – the noise the neighbour actually hears, if he is at twice one’s distance from the scope in the backyard,  is only 1/4 in intensity of what you might deem worrisome or personally objectionable. In all likelihood, his windows are probably closed, and his (or your outdoor) air conditioner compressor will muffle the  noise from squeaky sliding counterweights, if any.
 
Joe


Re: CN questions from a new user

Dale Ghent
 

On Jun 19, 2019, at 10:41 AM, rgsalinger@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

In just one day on this forum I went from a system that wasn't guiding properly, wasn't pointing properly and was throwing errors every time I tried to park to one that works perfectly now. Not bad at all.

My next question is how can I transfer all of the settings in APCC and the Ascom driver over to a new computer? Are these stored in some directory I can access. This would/should include the existing pointing model. Our old computer won't boot up without help and I'm replacing it next week at the remote site.
For both APCC and the ASCOM driver, the contents of:

C:&#92;ProgramData&#92;Astro-Physics

will be want you want copy to the other PC.

/dale


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Stone, Jack G
 

What I use is a silicone surface treatment – super lube

There is no residue or out gassing.

Keeps the shaft looking new and no noise, but note this is on my G11

Still looking for a lightly used 1200 J

 

Jack ~

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 12:04 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise

 

 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO

TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.

 


Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Jeffc
 

I have an AP1100 , AP1200 and previously AP900 and never noticed the noise. 
But then I have (now defunct) Robin Cassidy weights which have the bronze insert.  

Hmm


On Jun 19, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Astronutcase astronutcase@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

Am I the only one that’s never noticed that noise? (AP900)

Greg

On Jun 19, 2019, at 3:04 PM, mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@arlanxeo..com




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.




Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

Greg Salyer
 

Am I the only one that’s never noticed that noise? (AP900)

Greg

On Jun 19, 2019, at 3:04 PM, mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...





 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.




Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

mike.hambrick@...
 

I know that noise !!

I posted a similar thread several months ago comparing the noise that the counterweights make sliding on or off the shaft to a room full of unruly kindergarteners simultaneously scraping their fingernails down a chalkboard.

The A-P counterweights that came with my old 800 mount had bronze bushings pressed into them which acted like a bearing, and as a result, the counterweights made very little noise when they were slid on and off the shaft. It would be really nice to have the same kind of bushings in the counterweights for the 1.875" diameter shafts, but this would increase the cost to produce them

I have not tried this, but Roland suggested that sanding the counterweight shaft will smooth out the very small ridges that come from the machining process and reduce the noise.

In the meantime, I have also found that removing the counterweight in a single, quick motion at least reduces the duration of the noise. What you DON'T want to do is move the counterweight slowly because doing so only seems to prolongs the noise.

I also have a deal worked out with my next door neighbor. If he knows I have my telescope out, he will not turn on his security lights. The noise from sliding the counterweights on the shaft alerts him that I have my telescope out.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike.hambrick@...




From:        "badgerz49@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To:        <ap-gto@...>
Date:        06/19/2019 12:36 PM
Subject:        [ap-gto] Reducing Counterweight Noise
Sent by:        ap-gto@...




 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.

Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.




Re: Reducing Counterweight Noise

DFisch
 

Badger, Have been impressed that that sound doesn’t carry very far. It’s screeches and you can feel it but standing 10 feet away isn’t that loud. If your neighbors are normal human beings they will be in deep sleep when you’re tearing down


Reducing Counterweight Noise

Chad A
 

Attaching and removing AP counterweights creates a loud screeching noise due to weights rubbing against the CW shaft.  Does anyone know of a way to reduce this noise?  I usually tear down in the middle of the night and have neighbors all around.


Maybe there's a lubricant that won't damage the shaft or weights and still allows the weights to be held securely in place?  I'm using the current SCWT weights for 1.875" shafts.


Re: Park 4 Problem

Roland Christen
 


The number one issue that I am having is that the mount cannot use Park 4, which is what I want to use. When I try to use it I get a limits exceeded message. The mount is pointing just below the horizon when it stops and I'm pretty sure that's the problem. 
To add to what Ray said, check time date and location data to make sure it's all accurate.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: rgsalinger@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2019 10:12 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Park 4 Problem



I am working on getting an AP1600 system that has some issues working properly. It's operating remotely and seems to generally be OK. I took some 10 minute exposures and the stars were perfectly round and the nebular detail was excellent. Still, things do not work correctly.  

The number one issue that I am having is that the mount cannot use Park 4, which is what I want to use. When I try to use it I get a limits exceeded message. The mount is pointing just below the horizon when it stops and I'm pretty sure that's the problem. 

It's as if there is some mismatch between the mounts actual position (just 8 arc minutes) and where it thinks it is in some "other" piece of software. To be clear I get this message using ONLY APCC PRO and the V2 driver. I first saw it using MaximDL so I dropped back to just testing with the driver and APCC. 

I have a couple of suspicions. Perhaps I just need to do a recal to set the mount back to the actual sky. There is a pointing model that doesn't work very well - maybe 8 arc minutes off most objects. I think that this may be the same symptom - some kind of time base error because the system needs a recal. Anyway any and all help appreciated.

Rgds-Ross 



Re: CN questions from a new user

rgsalinger@...
 

In just one day on this forum I went from a system that wasn't guiding properly, wasn't pointing properly and was throwing errors every time I tried to park to one that works perfectly now. Not bad at all.

My next question is how can I transfer all of the settings in APCC and the Ascom driver over to a new computer? Are these stored in some directory I can access. This would/should include the existing pointing model. Our old computer won't boot up without help and I'm replacing it next week at the remote site.

Rgrds-Ross


Re: CN questions from a new user

Roland Christen
 

Welcome! (We have no idiots here on this group ;^))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: rgsalinger@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Tue, Jun 18, 2019 10:12 pm
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] CN questions from a new user



Well that idiot was me. I thought that it would take some days to get approval to join the group and I am trying to improve (maybe fix is a better word) a system that I'm going to be running. I found that I had yet another question as I am ploughing through the APCC documentation so I figured I had to get on the group.
Rgrds-Ross



Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Stephane Charbonnel
 

Hi Ray,

> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
> which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file

Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.


It's OK. I think my question does not make sense for the columns B, C, F and G : it is already slew J2000 coordinates, isn't it ?

So, I have make my script on PRiSM and pass over all images to write apparent J2000 coordinates in columns (I,J) and change '#" to " " in 15 lines ;-). I have also changed "Precessed" to "0" in yesterday file, line 15 of PNT file. I will wait fine weather to know if this work is good (and I have not modified the values of checksum because I don't know how and because you have said to me in a precedent mail it doesn't matter).

Regards
Stephane

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is terrible !
>
>
> I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is very long
> as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not checked, max
> solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
> catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use pinpoint without
> all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not greater than
> 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.
>
> So, I have news questions about PNT file :
>
> 1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East side. So I would
> keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I take all
> values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2 files). The
> "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?
>
>
> 2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change catalog for
> a new solving or other detection parameters ?
>
> 3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000 for center of field.
> If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I
> and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and G values of
> J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
> Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with PinPoint, I don't check
> "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to change values
> of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...
>
>
> 4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near meridian and a
> field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after declination. For
> example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with orthogonality
> error)..
>
>
> Best regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
> Thank you for your help (and your patience).
>
>
> I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even images with
> failed solving.
>
> Regards
> Stephane
>
>
> Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > gto@...> a écrit :
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane,
>
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> > better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
> That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:
>
> http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-Catalogs-
> (Updated-May-2018)
>
> Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:
>
> http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228
>
> For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is recommended.
>
> >But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at 80%),
>
> If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
> solving slower and possibly unreliable.
>
> > the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> > (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing
>
> Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
> search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky solve to get the
> initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.
>
> > About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> > parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> > time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> > at 0.689 sec
>
> If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
> indicate was returned from PinPoint?
>
> If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
> corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).
>
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
> You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time is
> not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> >
> > Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the same), I
> think I have
> > understood the failure of my solves.
> >
> > I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
> USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> > x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
> >
> >
> >
> > > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally given
> them to it,
> > and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved without
> having to use
> > All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long duration
> spiral search!
> >
> >
> > My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
> refractor : in fact no
> > problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
> >
> > But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at 80%),
> the spiral
> > search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down
> computing ... and
> > it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you slew
> from Zenith to
> > 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
> West ... Yes, I have
> > not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
> reason I use a
> > pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I don't
> care this !) ...
> >
> >
> > So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
> calculates each
> > time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
> because I can define
> > a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search ...
> About "max
> > solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand PinPoint
> stops researchs
> > before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at 0.689
> sec ...).
> >
> > And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150 sec !
> Even with near
> > coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
> you imagine time
> > of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it works
> on 95% of case
> > (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
> search. But PRiSM
> > produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
> same in apparent
> > coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of making
> model with my
> > 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed, if a
> sync telescope
> > is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after field
> so after 10
> > fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical studies
> also), it takes
> > one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
> >
> >
> > But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> > 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ... After
> all, as I auto-
> > guide ...
> > 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not sure of
> sucess).
> > 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
> >
> > Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
> 16803 - FSQ 106
> > !
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> > >
> > > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> > >
> > > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do a
> spiral
> > search until
> > > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
> already good
> > help of
> > > software).
> > >
> > > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a spiral
> search ...
> > But if it
> > > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find in
> Visual
> > PinPoint for
> > > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
> have already
> > > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> > gto@...> a
> > > écrit :
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Stephane,
> > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
> only goes
> > > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by USNO
> A2.0
> > because it
> > > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> > >
> > > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > >
> > > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search so
> you are
> > > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread performance
> and a
> > fast SSD to
> > > store the catalog.
> > >
> > > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
> enable the
> > > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> > >
> > > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> > >
> > > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> > >
> > > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> > >
> > > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> > >
> > > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
> and port of
> > > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
> Just do an
> > internet
> > > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hello Ray,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > > >
> > > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > > >
> > > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field. With
> my
> > > planetarium
> > > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
> resolution but
> > text
> > > file of
> > > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I want
> hope to
> > > solve about
> > > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> (I think it
> > > will be
> > > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most of
> cases
> > bad,
> > > and why
> > > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases ...
> > > >
> > > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
> PinPoint ? I
> > > don't think
> > > > because it is independant ...
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
> connection
> > ?
> > > So
> > > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with PinPoint
> and
> > without
> > > > Astrometry.net ?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Stephane
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Stephane,

I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is very long
as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) !
I'm glad you found better settings, but I still recommend using the All Sky option. If you use that option with "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" then if AllSky is used it should succeed and APPM will update its internal RA/Dec local J2000 offset. Then, the following plate solves should solve very quickly with PinPoint without needing to do additional AllSky solves.

1. I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I take all
values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ?
(a concatenation of the 2 files).
That *might* work if you also strip the checksum characters off the beginning of each line. Also uncheck the "Recal near Zenith at Start" option in APPM. If it doesn't email the two PNT files and I will fix them.

2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change catalog for
a new solving or other detection parameters ?
It is possible, but there is not a feature in APPM to do that.

If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000
which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file
Only the Solved RA/Dec columns (I,J) would be in J2000.

4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between
a filed on East side very near meridian and a field on West side very
near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination
after declination. For example, it could be applied if reversal of mount
before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with orthogonality error).
No, because it's usually not as simple as reflecting the error from one pier side to the other.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 3:12 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves



Hi Ray,

I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is terrible !


I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is very long
as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not checked, max
solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two catalogs), sigma = 1.6,
catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use pinpoint without
all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not greater than
100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.

So, I have news questions about PNT file :

1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East side. So I would
keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I take all
values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2 files). The
"#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?


2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change catalog for
a new solving or other detection parameters ?

3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000 for center of field.
If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I
and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and G values of
J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with PinPoint, I don't check
"Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to change values
of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...


4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near meridian and a
field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after declination. For
example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with orthogonality
error)..


Best regards
Stephane


Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :


Hi Ray,

Thank you for your help (and your patience).


I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even images with
failed solving.

Regards
Stephane


Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
gto@...> a écrit :





Hi Stephane,

> I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).

That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:

http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-Catalogs-
(Updated-May-2018)

Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:

http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228

For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is recommended.

>But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at 80%),

If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make
solving slower and possibly unreliable.

> the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing

Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral
search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky solve to get the
initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.

> About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> at 0.689 sec

If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM
indicate was returned from PinPoint?

If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the
corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).

> one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.

You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time is
not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
>
> Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the same), I
think I have
> understood the failure of my solves.
>
> I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with
USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
>
>
> > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
>
> Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally given
them to it,
> and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved without
having to use
> All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long duration
spiral search!
>
>
> My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments ..... A medium - big field with
refractor : in fact no
> problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
>
> But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at 80%),
the spiral
> search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down
computing ... and
> it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you slew
from Zenith to
> 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to
West ... Yes, I have
> not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only
reason I use a
> pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I don't
care this !) ...
>
>
> So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which
calculates each
> time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds
because I can define
> a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search ...
About "max
> solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand PinPoint
stops researchs
> before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at 0.689
sec ...).
>
> And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150 sec !
Even with near
> coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let
you imagine time
> of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it works
on 95% of case
> (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral
search. But PRiSM
> produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the
same in apparent
> coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of making
model with my
> 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed, if a
sync telescope
> is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after field
so after 10
> fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical studies
also), it takes
> one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
>
> But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ... After
all, as I auto-
> guide ...
> 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not sure of
sucess).
> 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
>
> Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple
16803 - FSQ 106
> !
>
> Regards
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> >
> > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> >
> > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do a
spiral
> search until
> > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the
already good
> help of
> > software).
> >
> > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a spiral
search ...
> But if it
> > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find in
Visual
> PinPoint for
> > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I
have already
> > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-
> gto@...> a
> > écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephane,
> >
> > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > >
> > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> >
> > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it
only goes
> > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by USNO
A2.0
> because it
> > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> >
> > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> >
> > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search so
you are
> > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread performance
and a
> fast SSD to
> > store the catalog.
> >
> > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you
enable the
> > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> >
> > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> >
> > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> >
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> >
> > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> >
> > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> >
> > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address
and port of
> > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available).
Just do an
> internet
> > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Ray,
> > >
> > >
> > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM...
> > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > >
> > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field. With
my
> > planetarium
> > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal
resolution but
> text
> > file of
> > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I want
hope to
> > solve about
> > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
(I think it
> > will be
> > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most of
cases
> bad,
> > and why
> > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases ...
> > >
> > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual)
PinPoint ? I
> > don't think
> > > because it is independant ...
> > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet
connection
> ?
> > So
> > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with PinPoint
and
> without
> > > Astrometry.net ?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>




Re: APPM and All-Sky solves

Stephane Charbonnel
 

Hi Ray,

I have had only one hour fine weather to begin an other pointing model ... this June month is terrible !

I finally found fine parameters on PinPoint to obtain a fine solving ! When I use astrometry.net, the time is very long as 2 or 3 minutes or more (on local and more by internet) ! So, I use parameters : "Try All Sky" not checked, max solve time = 80s, USNOA2 or UCAC4 (same failure rate but not on same images with two catalogs), sigma = 1.6, catalog expansion = 0.8 and Image scale = 300%. This last parameter is my only possibility to use pinpoint without all-sky and to have mostly good solving. This value cannot be used / tried in Visual Pinpoint (not greater than 100%), but I discover it could used with APPM and so it works.

So, I have news questions about PNT file :

1/ As I have had only one hour of time to make my pointing model, I only make it good for East side. So I would keep my values on East side. Tomorrow (I hope !!), I would like to make West side but is it a problem if I take all values of my "West Side PNT" and insert them in my "East Side PNT" ? (a concatenation of the 2 files). The "#Sync" line will not be the same but I think it is important because "#" ... isn't it ?

2/ Is there a possibility to solving again in APPM the fields with bad solve for example in order to change catalog for a new solving or other detection parameters ?

3/ I would like solving bad solving with my PRiSM software. But this last software works in J2000 for center of field. If I don't check "Precess J2000 to Jnow", could you confirm it is J2000 which is registered on columns B, C, F, G, I and J of PNT file ? (and not Jnow as I can compute ?) So, if it is the case, I can register my F and G values of J2000 solving instead "0.000000", erase "# character, modify column H and it could work ...
Further, if PNT file could register all values in J2000, I think if I have a lot of bad solving with PinPoint, I don't check "Precess J2000 to JNow" and I check "Skip Plate Solves", and I make a script in PRiSM in order to change values of columns I and J from those of columns F and G ...

4/ Have you planned to create a file in order to know offsets between a filed on East side very near meridian and a field on West side very near meridian on the same declination. These measures declination after declination. For example, it could be applied if reversal of mount before apply model on the new side ... (for OTA with orthogonality error).

Best regards
Stephane


Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 15:42, Stephane CHARBONNEL <scharbonnel949@...> a écrit :
Hi Ray,

Thank you for your help (and your patience).

I will realize as soon as possible a new session with APPM and register all I can register even images with failed solving.

Regards
Stephane

Le jeu. 13 juin 2019 à 14:29, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> a écrit :
 

Hi Stephane,

> I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have
> better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).

That may be true for Prism but read these comments from the PinPoint author:

http://forums.dc3.com/showthread.php?4694-Downloading-and-Using-PinPoint-Reference-Catalogs-(Updated-May-2018)

Then take a look here about someone having a problem with UCAC4 and PinPoint:

http://forum.mainsequencesoftware.com/t/unable-to-solve-using-pinpoint-and-ucac4-catalog/2228

For fields larger than 15'x15' the GSC can be used. For smaller fields, USNO A2.0 is recommended.

>But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image >scale tolerance at 80%),

If you know the image scale you should not increase image scale tolerance. That will only make solving slower and possibly unreliable.

> the spiral search takes ... less than one second
> (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing

Previously you said PinPoint was taking a long time. That happens when PinPoint is doing a spiral search internally. When that happens it will almost always be faster for PinPoint to do the All-Sky solve to get the initial coordinates which PinPoint will then use to do a more accurate plate solve.

> About "max solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this
> parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs before the limit
> time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped
> at 0.689 sec

If PinPoint failed early then there should be an error message. What error message does APPM indicate was returned from PinPoint?

If you are having APPM save your failed images, can you zip a few of them along with the corresponding APPM log file and post or email me a dropbox link (or similar).

> one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.

You should be able to solve about 2 images per minute with APPM (120/hour) if the download time is not too long. This is when using the option to use the last solution offset to for the following image.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2019 12:55 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
>
>
>
> Hi Ray,
>
>
> Because I spent a lot of time to understand parameters of PinPoint and APPM (This is the same), I think I have
> understood the failure of my solves.
>
> I don't think it is catalog because when I use PRiSM, I have better results with UCAC4 than with USNO A2 (yes in 5'
> x 5', you have about only stars brighter than mag 10 ;-) ).
>
>
>
> > (but I have already remarked such a solve is less accurate with these
> > two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
>
> Actually, that is incorrect. PinPoint will use the All-Sky coordinates as if APPM had originally given them to it,
> and then more accurately solve. Thus there is the same accuracy as if PinPoint had solved without having to use
> All-Sky coordinates. In effect this dramatically shortens what might have been a very long duration spiral search!
>
>
> My problem is here ! Your last remark is OK for classic instruments .... A medium - big field with refractor : in fact no
> problem, even with little search parameters on PinPoint, sucess is at each solving !
>
> But in my case, it is no : 5' x 5' : even with parameters at maximum (image scale tolerance at 80%), the spiral
> search takes ... less than one second (I thought well it was not my Ryzen 5 2600 which slow down computing ... and
> it is not a competitor SSD but a SSD). With a refractor, I let you imagine the failure when you slew from Zenith to
> 20° above horizon (As APPM makes at the beginning of session) or when you slew from East to West ... Yes, I have
> not the perfect optical tube, with 20' when I slew from West to East for example, but it is the only reason I use a
> pointing model and not to boast me the target must stay in a hole of 3 arcsec without guiding (I don't care this !) ...
>
>
> So when you write APPM uses a spiral search, it is the search of PinPoint and not APPM which calculates each
> time a new center of image in order to simulate a spiral. It works on PRiSM in about 2 seconds because I can define
> a limit of spiral search (time and often area) and it is software which calculates the spiral search ... About "max
> solve time" with APPM (so PinPoint), I don't understand this parameter : I don't understand PinPoint stops researchs
> before the limit time (the last time, I have time limit at 10 sec and the search has stopped at 0.689 sec ...).
>
> And why not to use all-Sky : because, even my 5'x5', the research time is about ... 100 to 150 sec ! Even with near
> coordinates center, with nova.astrometry.net (internet) or in local with ansvr. With 100 fields, I let you imagine time
> of model ... Sorry to compare, but with PRiSM, it takes only two seconds at each field and it works on 95% of case
> (without all-sky search type of astrometry.net) because this is the software which produce spiral search. But PRiSM
> produce a txt file that is wrote only for each field : theorcial coordinates (hour angle, dec) and the same in apparent
> coordinates so difficult to use at a APPM file ... Sorry to compare also with the simplicity of making model with my
> 10µ mount : in the mode "making pointing model", mount points a field and for each field pointed, if a sync telescope
> is send, it is the real center of image and so on ... moreover, pointing model is refined field after field so after 10
> fields, target is near the center of image and with the same little field for me (spectroscopical studies also), it takes
> one hour to produce a pointing model of 80 fields.
>
>
> But I'm going astray ... So, I am reduced to :
> 1/ use less than 20 fields for my pointing model, as now, I have produced in more one hour ... After all, as I auto-
> guide ...
> 2/ Spent a lot of time to try to make the long file of APPM with results sending by PRiSM (not sure of sucess).
> 3/ Ask you APPM makes spiral research instead PinPoint and respect max solve time.
>
> Please, don't forget : the pointing model is often here for "atypical" instruments and not for couple 16803 - FSQ 106
> !
>
> Regards
>
> Stephane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 8:39 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ray,
> >
> > Thank you for your reply and your advice about USNO A2.0. I will change catalog.
> >
> > As I was a very old question for me, please, could you confirm I have fine understood :
> >
> > 1/ Even I don't check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral
> search until
> > "Max Solve Time" was reached ? (I didn't know that ... so if it is the case, please, add it in the already good
> help of
> > software).
> >
> > 2/ If I check "Try ALL-Sky Plate solving if available", APPM configures also PinPoint to do a spiral search ...
> But if it
> > fails after "Max Solve Time", APPM configures PinPoint in order to use the option one can find in Visual
> PinPoint for
> > using an ALL-Sky solution, as nova.astrometry.net by internet connection or local ansvr (but I have already
> > remarked such a solve is less accurate with these two last solutions so I would like prefer 1/).
> >
> > Regards
> > Stephane
> >
> >
> > Le mer. 12 juin 2019 à 05:06, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > gto@...> a
> > écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Stephane,
> >
> > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM..
> > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > >
> > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> >
> > I don't think that's the right catalog for you to use for telescope pointing calculations because it only goes
> > down to magnitude 16 and no brighter than mag 10. I think you would be better served by USNO A2.0
> because it
> > goes deeper *and* also contains brighter stars.
> >
> > > But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec !
> > > (I think it will be more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> >
> > It would be better if you use USNO A2.0. Also, APPM configures PinPoint to do a spiral search so you are
> > limited by the speed of PinPoint. It helps if you have a CPU with a high single thread performance and a
> fast SSD to
> > store the catalog.
> >
> > Also, if APPM solves a single all-sky image, images that follow it will solve much quicker if you enable the
> > option "Use last plate solve's offset as hint for next plate solve" in APPM.
> >
> > >> For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some
> > > boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ?
> >
> > Nope, that won't make any difference. I think you just need a more appropriate sky catalog.
> >
> > > > Why must I to have an internet connection ?
> >
> > Nope, you don't need an internet connection.
> >
> > > Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection ?
> >
> > Sure, PinPoint can work all-sky without and internet connection. You can define the IP address and port of
> > your local machine, but you must setup your own all-sky solution (there are a couple available). Just do an
> internet
> > search for PinPoint+AllSky.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 9:14 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: [ap-gto] APPM and All-Sky solves
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Ray,
> > >
> > >
> > > I have some questions about the "all-sky" of APPM..
> > > I use Pinpoint V6 for solving plate.
> > >
> > > My field is little : 5' x 5'. I use UCAC4 catalog.
> > >
> > > So, for some (a lot of) extremal fields, solving is not directly possible with such a little field. With my
> > planetarium
> > > software (PRiSM), solve is quick from a depart point and a spiral resolution with internal resolution but
> text
> > file of
> > > APPM's measures is too technical and so too long to reproduce ...
> > > So, for couple APPM / PinPoint v6 : I must use "Try All-Sky Plate Solving if available" if I want hope to
> > solve about
> > > half of fields. But most of the time, solving is bad even "All-Sky Max Solve Time" is at 300 sec ! (I think it
> > will be
> > > more simple if APPM uses a spiral research in case of failure)
> > > In fact, I try to understand why with APPM/PinPoint V6, all-sky solving is very long and most of cases
> bad,
> > and why
> > > with the same image and with PRiSM, all-sky solving is fast and good in more 90% of cases ...
> > >
> > > For good solving in all-Sky mode, I would like to know if I must check some boxes in (Visual) PinPoint ? I
> > don't think
> > > because it is independant ...
> > > Why must I to have an internet connection ? Pinpoint doesn't work on All-sky without internet connection
> ?
> > So
> > > Pinpoint always uses Astrometry.net in all-sky mode or all-sky mode can be used with PinPoint and
> without
> > > Astrometry.net ?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Stephane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: Park 4 Problem

Ross Salinger <rgsalinger@...>
 

Worked pefectly. Now I can park at Park 4 which was my objective.

Rgrds-Ross


Re: Park 4 Problem

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Ross,

The number one issue that I am having is that the mount cannot use Park 4, which is what
I want to use. When I try to use it I get a limits exceeded message. The mount is pointing
just below the horizon when it stops and I'm pretty sure that's the problem.
You can reset the limits in APCC which should fix the problem. If your 1600 doesn't have encoders then follow the directions for the Homing/Limits tab, starting with "Configure Home and Limits".

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 6:56 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Park 4 Problem



I am working on getting an AP1600 system that has some issues working properly. It's operating remotely and
seems to generally be OK. I took some 10 minute exposures and the stars were perfectly round and the nebular
detail was excellent. Still, things do not work correctly.




The number one issue that I am having is that the mount cannot use Park 4, which is what I want to use. When I try
to use it I get a limits exceeded message. The mount is pointing just below the horizon when it stops and I'm pretty
sure that's the problem.




It's as if there is some mismatch between the mounts actual position (just 8 arc minutes) and where it thinks it is in
some "other" piece of software. To be clear I get this message using ONLY APCC PRO and the V2 driver. I first saw
it using MaximDL so I dropped back to just testing with the driver and APCC.




I have a couple of suspicions. Perhaps I just n eed to do a recal to set the mount back to the actual sky. There is a
pointing model that doesn't work very well - maybe 8 arc minutes off most objects. I think that this may be the same
symptom - some kind of time base error because the system needs a recal. Anyway any and all help appreciated.




Rgds-Ross