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Welcome to the ap-gto E-Mail Group
dawong@...
Discussions focused around the Astrophysics equatorial telescope mounts with Goto capability, including use of DigitalSky Voice Software.
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Using the polar alignment scope
Derek Wong <dawong@...>
The following is a repost of my method of polar alignment using the AP
polar alignment scope. The instructions I received in 10/98 were a little off, and I hope they have been fixed. IMHO using the polar alignment scope is the most rapid way of getting a close alignment, which may be tweaked by various other methods. POLAR ALIGNMENT SCOPE "ORTHOGONALIZATION" Put the polar finder into the mount and center it on a distant object, preferably during the day. Place the object exactly within the center circle of the reticle (NOT the Polaris circle) with the Alt-Az adjusters, then tighten the screws. The Dec and RA mount axes should be fixed as well. You should have something like this: x x O x x O = object x's = center circle of reticle of polar scope Now loosen the RA lever on the mount, and rotate the mount 360 degrees in RA. If you are lucky, the polar scope will be orthogonal to the mount and the object will remain in the center circle of the reticle throughout the entire rotation. If the polar alignment scope is not orthogonal to the mount the object will not stay in the center circle and you will have a situation like the diagram below when you rotate the RA. x x O x x i i i C i M i A i i i i i B i i O = object x's = center circle of reticle of polar scope i's are points through which the center circle passes when RA is turned a full 360 degrees A,B,C = reference points M = True Mount Axis The scope starts with the object O in the center circle of the reticle. While rotating the RA, the center circle makes its own "circle" and passes through A,B,C and back to O. To make the polar scope orthogonal to the mount, you must adjust the polar scope until the center circle of the scope is on M, the mount axis. If you follow the manual instructions (as of 10/98), you will rotate the RA axis so the center circle is at position A, for example. Then you realign the scope so the object O is again in the center circle. However, you are still the same distance from the pole, so in effect you have not gotten any closer to your goal! You must watch the entire movement of the center circle when you rotate the scope 360 degrees. The center circle makes another "circle" (quotes differentiate this) around the mount axis M. All you need to do is estimate the position of the mount axis by aligning the scope halfway between points O and B (or A and C). Even though the actual pole may or may not have an object, it is easy enough to estimate and if repeated this method nails alignment right on. Derek Wong dawong@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: Using the polar alignment scope
Todd Gross <toddg@...>
Hi All!
Derek wanted me to post a reminder that I have a plethora of AP-GTO driven images at http://www.weatherman.com/todphots.htm All photos taken with the C9.25" and 5.1" EDF scopes were taken on that mount. I took Mars saturday night, and plan on posting it later today, longitude 83. However, I placed the image on the server this morning, and then the server went down, so I don't have it for you quite yet. Can someone tell me what the story is with egroups? Even though a "moderator" of this list, I'm clueless. Is this a free service? I didn't receive any subscribe/unsubscribe or other info. yet, did anyone else.. in other words, did I miss it? thanks thanks! -Todd Boston Meteorologist Todd Gross toddg@... http://www.weatherman.com (617)725-0777 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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IMAGES taken with the A/P GTO Mount
Todd Gross <toddg@...>
Hi All!
Derek wanted me to post a reminder that I have a plethora of AP-GTO driven images at http://www.weatherman.com/todphots.htm All photos taken with the C9.25" and 5.1" EDF scopes were taken on that mount. I took Mars saturday night, and plan on posting it later today, longitude 83. However, I placed the image on the server this morning, and then the server went down, so I don't have it for you quite yet. Can someone tell me what the story is with egroups? Even though a "moderator" of this list, I'm clueless. Is this a free service? I didn't receive any subscribe/unsubscribe or other info. yet, did anyone else.. in other words, did I miss it? thanks (sorry for the re-send, I needed a new subject line on this one for the archive) thanks! -Todd Boston Meteorologist Todd Gross toddg@... http://www.weatherman.com (617)725-0777 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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e-m address change
barry bindi <radman1@...>
Todd.... would appreciate my e-m address on the list be
changed to radman1@...
(home) and my current address, bindibt@... (work), be
deleted. My employer is sensitive about receiving non-company mail
via company equip. Thank you in advance,
Barry Bindi
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Custom cases for GTO mounts
Paul Gustafson <drgus@...>
Derek asked me to give my further impressions of my cases for my 900 GTO
mount, so here goes. I had a set of custom ATA cases made for me through Company 7 for my 900 GTO mount. They are made by Calzone, with Anvil latches, and are the prototypes for the new line of AP custom ATA cases sold by C7. There are two, one for the RA assembly alone and another for the DEC assembly, dec shaft, counterweights, and miscellaneous cables, keypad, polar scope. Even the foam is customized for the mount--each case contains multiple densities of foam, depending on what that particular area is supporting. The entire interior is lined in a rich long-nap velour. The cases have a full-length hinge on one side and have three latches on the other--a central combination latch and two special flat Anvil latches that won't catch on anything during shipping--and have two retaining straps to keep the lid from opening too far. Each has one retractable handle on the front. Several color combinations are available. I chose white exterior with a rich red interior, but black on black was very tempting. The cases hold the ra and dec assemblies VERY snugly. The fit on the dec was perfect, but the ra wasn't quite right and was sent back to Calzone to be refitted (again, these are prototypes) and hasn't yet returned. The cases are ATA-shippable as-is; you can stick a shipping label on the outside and it is ready to go. They are extremely well-constructed, and could take a real beating while protecting their contents from damage. I also had a matching case made for my 155 EDFS. It differs from the mount cases only in the fully removable cover which is held on each long side by one combination latch and two flat Anvil latches. When the cover is removed, the long sides of the case spring outward a bit, allowing you to grasp the scope more easily (this would be difficult if the case didn't spring outward due to the very snug fit in the firm foam--it fits in the cutout like a glove). There are three retractable handles, one on the top and one on each end. All in all, I am very happy with the cases. They are beautiful, extremely well built, and protect their contents from even the most determined baggage handler. The only downside, besides the cost, is that they are heavy. I don't have a web page to post images yet, but I will be happy to snap a digital camera shot of them and e-mail to anyone who is interested. Regards, Paul Gustafson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: Using the polar alignment scope
RCK <rkuberek@...>
Todd,
I got a message that I had been added to the list several days ago. I'll send it to you separately in case for some reason you didn't get it. Bob Kuberek
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polar alignment scope
markw@...
Has anyone got the polar alignment scope truly orthogonal? I have tried and tried, but I feel I am making it worse. What's the trick? Yes, I have read Derek's suggestion, but I was not successful. While making adjustments to the polar scope, am I supposed to make any corresponding adjustments to the mount also?
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[Fwd: Tracking Error Measurements for AP600]
RCK <rkuberek@...>
Reposting by request.
Bob Kuberek RCK wrote: Hi all, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Roland's polar alignment method
Derek Wong <dawong@...>
A repost of Roland's polar alignment method (with his permission):
...actually, I use another method to achieve accurate results, a modification of method 3 in the manual. I choose a star that is close to the meridian overhead, and center the crosshairs on it. Then I change the clock time by 1 hour and enter the same star on the hand control. The telescope now slews to the other side of the mounting, and the star will be offset in declination by some amount (the star can also be off the crosshair in R.A. but this is not due to polar alignment, rather it is due to non-orthogonality of the telescope vs. the mounting). To polar align, the star is moved half way to the center of the crosshair by turning only the altitude adjuster. The star is now brought the rest of the way with the buttons, and a recal is done by pushing button #9. That in effect sets the altitude of the mounting. If done properly, you don't need to do it any more times, but you could do it again by resetting the clock time to the original hour and slewing to the same star again on the other side of the mounting. A final fine adjustment can be done the second time. You can also adjust the orthogonality of your mounting by shimming up one of the mounting rings until the star comes in in R.A also. The azimuth setting on the mount is done by picking a star in the north, and then slewing to a star in the south at similar right ascensions. Bring the star half way to the crosshair with the azimuth adjuster, and the rest of the way with the buttons. Then hit #9 button to recal the position. This way, the two adjustment axes are done totally independently. It is highly accurate and very fast. I can do it in less than 5 minutes and be dead on all night long. Sincerely Roland Christen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Comments on SCT and diagonal orthogonality
Derek Wong <dawong@...>
From Todd Gross' post, copied with permission from Roland:
The biggest obstacle to getting the polar alignment and subsequent accurate object acquisition is tube orthogonality. It is not a problem with alt-az systems like the Meade, but as soon as you go equatorial, you have problems. I know people who could not get the images to fall on their CCDs with the Meades until they shimmed up the fork arms to the point where the optical and mechanical axes coincided. I know it sounds like I'm trying to pass off the problem, but this is not the case. If you can get ahold of Sam Brown's classic book on telescopes, in there he explains, in plain easy to understand language and diagrams, all about equatorial mounted telescopes, and how you tune up the mounts and how to use polar scopes. If you can't get a copy, I can fax you the relevent pages. You will have two problems with your SCT, one is the non-orthogonality, and two is the focus shift. If you have a Televue or Lumicon diagonal, you will also compound this problem because these diagonals are not exactly 90 degrees, and the image will shift out of the center by a significant amount when you rotate the diagonal as the scope swings from one side of the mount to the other (this is where an alt-az mount has a distinct advantage). Also, if you tweak the collimation on your SCT, your orthogonality is gone with the wind. What it means is that you will have to use a seperate polar scope to bring the mount in. You will not be able to get images to fall in the center of a medium to high power field as you switch sides, and will have to center a known star in the field and press the recal button (#9) before going to a faint object. This is the only way you will have pointing accuracy with an SCT, unless you go through a complete mechanical tune of the entire system. Sincerely Roland Christen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: polar alignment scope
Derek Wong <dawong@...>
Has anyone got the polar alignment scope truly orthogonal?Yes, I have--perhaps my post was not clear, so I'll attempt to elaborate. While making adjustments to the polar scope, am I supposed to make any corresponding adjustments to the mount also?No, the mount should stay perfectly steady--pointed at some distant object, with no adjustments necessary. You should lock the alt and az screws fairly tightly, as well as the dec circle--so no motions are possible except in RA. Also, it is easier to do this without a scope, or counterweights--only the shaft. First, look without the polar scope through the hole. Turn the mount in RA, and the view should remain the same. If it isn't, the mount may be off and you may need to call AP. Now, install the polar scope. Rotate the mount in RA, and if the scope is off the view should change--the center circle should move in its own circle. Is this where you are? Derek Wong dawong@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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E-groups info
Derek Wong <dawong@...>
In order for us to use the e-groups effectively, I'm going to address a
couple of issues which have arisen. I'm sorry I have to go on vacation from 6/16-6/27., but I'm sure you guys will figure it out. Can someone tell me what the story is with egroups? Even though aOK, Todd the service is free, in exchange for the ads at the bottom of all the messages. The cost for the service with no ads is $4.95 per month. You can always get to the group using www.egroups.com I didn't receive any subscribe/unsubscribe or other info. yet, did anyoneI subscribed everyone on the e-mail list directly, since I didn't need to approve anyone. Subscribe/unsubscribe requests may be put through to me--not to the list. While I am away, Todd and Jim could handle these (I'll explain it to you guys in a separate message). The reason I made new members get approval before joining the list is that I don't want a spam organization joining the list. I'm not going to refuse anyone else--although if certain s.a.a. members who want to slam AP products I'll suggest that they stay on s.a.a., or avoid such flames on the list. Mark Wilson raised a question about passwords. So far I haven't made any passwords, so I would assume you just leave it blank for now! As for the "Chat Room", I don't know how to use this, but you are certainly welcome to try. Good luck, Derek Wong dawong@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
Todd Gross <toddg@...>
Okay, I ran into a problem..
I have no problem with the mike (if I speak up) or the running of Digital Sky Voice, but once hooked up to the scope, nothing happened. (scope did not move, program functioned as if it had) I suspect the cable. I tried both COM1 and COM2 settings in HARDWARE PREFERENCES. The cable I used as serial, but was called "Mouse extention cable" Is it possible the pins were reversed (as a further illustration, I had to unscrew the little bolts (studs?) on either side of the mail connector, because it was expecting to be "screwed into".. which is why I'm suspecting that that may have been the culprit.. but I had thought it would work, so I am confused) thanks! -Todd Boston Meteorologist Todd Gross toddg@... http://www.weatherman.com (617)725-0777 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
howard lazarus <lazhow@...>
Hi Todd;
Once had the same problem. First of all are you presetting your scope, that is, are you polar or two star aligning prior to utilizing the program???? Two, I too had to remove the side studs from the connector. Three, are you plug in( all connections made) and program on when you are setting up. If you use the keypad to align, the program, should be on and then just hit link totelescope.I use the keypad for aligning and never rely on the program for aligning. So program must be on...set using keupad ..then hit link to telescope and go to any program on the program. I always go to a star to check centering of the scope. Your pins are not reversed, I believe this is a bug in the program that we must brought to Charles for correction.I hope I was of some little help, but the same thing also happened to me.. Very best Howard L Todd Gross wrote: Okay, I ran into a problem.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
Todd Gross <toddg@...>
what is Charle's email? I did do all of the things you mentioned below to
no avail. Are you SURE you had to be aligned through the keypad first? Anyone else try it yet? At 08:56 AM 6/16/99 -0400, howard lazarus wrote: Hi Todd;the scope.thanks! -Todd Boston Meteorologist Todd Gross toddg@... http://www.weatherman.com (617)725-0777 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
Todd Gross <toddg@...>
Hi Howard and everyone!!
Well, I did some checking, and this "extention" cable does appear to be the right animal. Christine suggested that perhaps my computer wasn't allowing the serial port to be active or something, as it was expecting a mouse, and suggested I order a serial port on an PCMIA card, which I did. At least that way, I'll know which serial port is which when I plug it in. I'm supposed to receive that in the mail tomorrow or Friday. I find it very curious though, that they went with female DB9 connectors that require a male input, because in checking .. even with CABLES TO GO.. that means one HAS TO unscrew the lugs? Has anyone else tried this w/o having to unscrew the lugs? Just an update of where I stand 1. I did everything right, but can't get the scope to slew via the software even though it states "OBJECT ACK-QUIRED" At 08:56 AM 6/16/99 -0400, howard lazarus wrote: Hi Todd;the scope.thanks! -Todd Boston Meteorologist Todd Gross toddg@... http://www.weatherman.com (617)725-0777 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
RCK <rkuberek@...>
No, I had to unscrew the lugs and it all worked fine.
Bob K. Todd Gross wrote: Hi Howard and everyone!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
RCK <rkuberek@...>
Todd,
One other thing you have probably already thought of. To test your cable and port, you might want to see if you can run a different serial device on that (other than the mouse, for which you should have a special mouse port anyway). On my machine I have a conflict on the port and can only run one serial device at a time. This means that I can run my HP/PC or, the AP mount, but not both. Previously, I had a situation where the PCMCIA modem was using the port and had to be turned off from the Windows Control Panel prior to using ANY other serial device. Bob K. Todd Gross wrote: Hi Howard and everyone!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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Re: PROBLEM GETTING SCOPE TO MOVE
Todd Gross <toddg@...>
Anyone out there other than Howard that has tried this thing?
I got it running, my laptop was set to COM4 !!!!!!!!!!! It's cloudy, so I don't know how well it works.. but it definitely works, voice and all At 08:56 AM 6/16/99 -0400, howard lazarus wrote: Hi Todd;the scope.thanks! -Todd Boston Meteorologist Todd Gross toddg@... http://www.weatherman.com (617)725-0777 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/ap-gto http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
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