Date   

Sadr Region - HA

Bill Long
 

Did some model testing and grabbed 3.5 hours of Sadr in HA. Epsilon E160ED scope, AP Mach 2 mount, unguided subs of 5 mins. Camera is the QHY600 full frame CMOS. Filter was the Astronomik MaxFR 6nm. 



Pretty neat data, and massively wide field. The combo is coming along nicely.

-Bill 


Re: Things NOT to do

Bill Long
 

Agreed. Placing the burden of solving the issue in terms of work, on users, is a bad thing.

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Andrew Burwell via groups.io <andrew_burwell@...>
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 6:00 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Things NOT to do
 
Honestly, there is an easy solution for this. Most equipment listings are just variations of the same thing. He should have been able to mass migrate all the obvious stuff, and leave users to sort only the things that were less obvious. This would make it easier on everyone, and would get you a faster migration process.


Re: Things NOT to do

Andrew Burwell
 

Honestly, there is an easy solution for this. Most equipment listings are just variations of the same thing. He should have been able to mass migrate all the obvious stuff, and leave users to sort only the things that were less obvious. This would make it easier on everyone, and would get you a faster migration process.


Re: Ocean-side location corrosion precautions

Christopher Erickson
 

Conformal coatings are good for boards that aren't already contaminated. Not so good for already-contaminated boards. There are ways to clean contaminated boards to stabilize them, dry them and then coat them.

I use Marine connector silicon grease, a.k.a. O-ring grease in just about all electrical connectors. Displaces air, humidity and whatever else might be carried around in the air, like salt.

Raw and burned diesel fumes can be rather corrosive too. Keep fumes from diesel fuel cans/barrels and diesel engine/generator exhaust well away from your precious observatory and anything else you care about.

I only use stainless steel fasteners everywhere in all observatories and equipment, regardless of proximity to salt air.

To prevent galling and damaged/broken parts, always add a small drop of oil to stainless and aluminum threads before putting things together. 

I only use stainless wood screws in observatories with wood components. I never use nails whenever they can be avoided. Observatories are not static structures, they are dynamic machines with moving parts. Nails are just about always completely unsuitable for machines. When using nails, everything works loose over time.

I recommend using fiber optic communications wherever possible. Minimize damage due to ESD, GPR, RFI, etc. My preference is for 50 micron multimode. It is more tolerant of dirty connectors and such versus single-mode fibers. 

All USB connectors suck and are unreliable. Currently USB-C is the least horrible USB connector. USB-A is the most horrible. Just FYI.

Keep all copper conductor cables in an observatory as short as possible. I put NUC's on OTA's and control them remotely. 

I use big SSD drives in all observatory computers. Especially above about 2.5 km elevation. Mechanical drives have air cushion bearings that keep the heads near but not touching the spinning discs. Thin air is dangerous for them.

Never let any cable run openly across a floor. Copper conductor cables will be at greater risk from ESD & GPR. Fiber cables will be at risk of damage from being stepped on. Also a tripping hazard.

Leaving USB/Ethernet/etc. cables with one end unconnected laying on or near a floor in dry, static-prone climates is almost guaranteeing getting a USB/Ethernet/etc. port blown out by ESD.

I hope this helps.

"Always take the high road. There's less traffic."

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 1:43 PM Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:
Hi Steve

I had to deal with this recently. One of the things I added was conformal coating to the circuit boards/electronics. It shields the boards from corrosion


On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 3:09 PM Steve Wilkins <stevewilkinsmail@...> wrote:
Yes that was my understanding. Good suggestion on the stainless, thanks, I do see some signs of corrosion on the small level on the baseplate; not too worrying as it’s not core to the mount’s function, looks like it might be plated steel. 



--


Re: Things NOT to do

Chris White
 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 04:12 PM, Bill Long wrote:
It wants someone to migrate every piece a gear they have ever used. So for those that have some really old images (even those moved to staging) it is asking you to migrate tons of gear via a very slow and clunky interface.
So far I've been ignoring those emails.....

I'm also annoyed by the revision selection.  If you click on a revision it opens it up in a popup window.  I'm sure all these issues will sort out and in the long run it will be a better product, but for now I just hate it when places go and change things that are already working and make them worse.  Abin's equipment database has been very poor for so many years, that it takes a lot of fixing to sort it out as there are years of inputs that have been done in a poor way. 

Every time I go to buy a pair of shoes just like the pair I wore out they've been discontinued or changed and I have to start over to find a pair that makes my feet happy.  There should be a law against this... 


Re: 400GTO

Chris White
 
Edited

This is the grease I have on hand: https://www.duniway.com/images/_pg/datasheet-DC-150.pdf

It is Dow Corning High Vacuum Grease. 

Silicone Base and rated for -40C to 204C degrees.

I remember reading something from Roland about avoiding sulfur, and I dont see that this contains any.

EDIT-  I can also buy some of the AP special sauce if this grease is not recommended.


Re: Ocean-side location corrosion precautions

 

Hi Steve

I had to deal with this recently. One of the things I added was conformal coating to the circuit boards/electronics. It shields the boards from corrosion


On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 3:09 PM Steve Wilkins <stevewilkinsmail@...> wrote:
Yes that was my understanding. Good suggestion on the stainless, thanks, I do see some signs of corrosion on the small level on the baseplate; not too worrying as it’s not core to the mount’s function, looks like it might be plated steel. 




Re: 400GTO

Chris White
 

Cool!  Thanks roland!


Re: 400GTO

Roland Christen
 

A loose nut will show as backlash in PHD. Will see it if you physically push and pull on the axis
A worm that's not fully in mesh will show as backlash in PHD. Will see it if you push and pull on the axis.
A spur transfer gear that's not fully in mesh will show as backlash in PHD. Will not see it by pushing and pulling on the axis.

3 places to look. Take covers off and explore.
If you can't figure out where the backlash is coming from, you may need the mount serviced. I'm sure we can find the place that has backlash.

I don't know your particular build, but I believe this mount has a stepper drive with a gearbox on the stepper. If none of the above, then it's possible that the gearbox has inherent backlash. In that case we may or may not be able to fully fix it. It is a very old mount that goes back some 30 years, and may have seen a lot of use (and wear). Backlash inn the stepper gearbox will not be visible as play in the mount axis (when you push and pull on the back of the scope).

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris White <chris.white@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 400GTO

Good tip on the nut. 

Would A loose nut be seen as backlash in phd?

You are correct. While I feel wiggle in both axis, I only have a problem in declination. The backlash is so great that it is not able to be measured by guiding assistant. 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Ocean-side location corrosion precautions

Steve Wilkins
 

Thanks Christopher, I’ll reach out separately to explore how to best achieve these


Re: Ocean-side location corrosion precautions

Steve Wilkins
 

Yes that was my understanding. Good suggestion on the stainless, thanks, I do see some signs of corrosion on the small level on the baseplate; not too worrying as it’s not core to the mount’s function, looks like it might be plated steel. 


Re: 400GTO

Chris White
 

Good tip on the nut. 

Would A loose nut be seen as backlash in phd?

You are correct. While I feel wiggle in both axis, I only have a problem in declination. The backlash is so great that it is not able to be measured by guiding assistant. 


Re: 400GTO

Roland Christen
 


f the worms are fully in mesh, then it's possible that the end-play not is loose.
It should say end play nut.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 4:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 400GTO


Thanks Roland. I do have play in the axis, but any tighter and it stalls. 
If the worms are fully in mesh, then it's possible that the end-play not is loose. This is the adjustable nut on the end of the worm gear that holds it in place. If it's loose, then the worm gear is able to move back and forth sideways as you push on the scope or counterweight shaft.

By the way, having backlash in RA has zero effect on guiding. In Dec you want to have little or no backlash, because during guiding you will be reversing the axis as the guide software tries to keep the star on the centerline. If there is too much backlash delay, it takes a long time for the axis to react during a reversal.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris White <chris.white@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 400GTO

Thanks Roland. I do have play in the axis, but any tighter and it stalls. 

I'll remove the housing and take a look.

It's a fun project!

Ps- will any high end silicone grease with good temperature ratings be ok?  I have a high end silicone vacuume grease on hand. Otherwise I can get the 105 grease specified in the service guide you made. 

Thanks and happy 4th!

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: 400GTO

Roland Christen
 


Thanks Roland. I do have play in the axis, but any tighter and it stalls. 
If the worms are fully in mesh, then it's possible that the end-play not is loose. This is the adjustable nut on the end of the worm gear that holds it in place. If it's loose, then the worm gear is able to move back and forth sideways as you push on the scope or counterweight shaft.

By the way, having backlash in RA has zero effect on guiding. In Dec you want to have little or no backlash, because during guiding you will be reversing the axis as the guide software tries to keep the star on the centerline. If there is too much backlash delay, it takes a long time for the axis to react during a reversal.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris White <chris.white@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 3:57 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 400GTO

Thanks Roland. I do have play in the axis, but any tighter and it stalls. 

I'll remove the housing and take a look.

It's a fun project!

Ps- will any high end silicone grease with good temperature ratings be ok?  I have a high end silicone vacuume grease on hand. Otherwise I can get the 105 grease specified in the service guide you made. 

Thanks and happy 4th!

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Thanks to Mike, Roland and others that reached out to me this 4th of July weekend

Roland Christen
 

I'm glad you got it going. Nice image of the Tulip.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: steven ho <StevenHoffman53@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 2:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Thanks to Mike, Roland and others that reached out to me this 4th of July weekend

It speaks volumes to the dedication of the AP family. The situation has been address and I thank you all.

I don't post my stuff here often enough so here's an image of the Tulip Nebula in NB SHO - https://astrob.in/a4bohj/C/
Thanks to the AP1600AE for carrying the heavy CDK17 load.

All the best 
Steve

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: 400GTO

Chris White
 

Thanks Roland. I do have play in the axis, but any tighter and it stalls. 

I'll remove the housing and take a look.

It's a fun project!

Ps- will any high end silicone grease with good temperature ratings be ok?  I have a high end silicone vacuume grease on hand. Otherwise I can get the 105 grease specified in the service guide you made. 

Thanks and happy 4th!


Re: Things NOT to do

Bill Long
 

It wants someone to migrate every piece a gear they have ever used. So for those that have some really old images (even those moved to staging) it is asking you to migrate tons of gear via a very slow and clunky interface.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 11:25 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Things NOT to do
 
I don't have time to fart around. I have mounts and scopes to build. Built two Mach2 mounts today and will have a couple of 130's started. Marj and I work on weekends and holidays, yes.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Things NOT to do

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 12:00 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Actually I tried to use it, but gave up after about 20 minutes trying to set up my equipment on this new page. So for images that I post, they will not have much info except the bare minimum which will be listed in the comments section.
I finished the migration.  Part of it was pretty bad, where I had done stuff like saying "Sony 400/2.8 + 1.4tc" and that now needed to be split into two pieces, where there was no good provision for that, but I got through it.  Another was a "Chroma LRGB" that I had used (as opposed to individually), I never did find where that was used, I ended up having to switch it to "Lum" and ignore it; I am pretty sure it was not on any image.

Had you completed the migration? 

Maybe it was because I'm so new and have so few images up. And limited equipment; I suspect Roland you have a bit more access to gear than I do.  :) 

The biggest problem I had is that it does not seem to have any concept of "my" equipment, only my recent equipment.  So when I went to post an image yesterday (after migration) and got to the part about adding filters, I had to re-discover all the filters inside the list from the manufacturer, despite using the same set (in different combination) in various images. I think it would be much more useful if the presented list (vs searchable list) were drawn from everything you have posted, or at least posted in the last year.  Or have a way you can flag "favorites" so they always show. 

It would appear the only technique to accelerate this is building a preset -- the problem with that is while an equipment preset for the optics and mount makes sense, I do not use the same filters each time, so that seemed awkward. 

But it wasn't THAT hard, I got past it.

But I suspect its limitations are because he seems to do this stuff without user feedback, since he does not ALLOW discussion of Astrobin on Astrobin. Software written in a vacuum is unlikely to be broadly well received.  To me his rules on that are just bizarre, I have many times had cases where I wanted to say "how do you do X" in their forums, but it is forbidden.  Like an inverse "Fight Club", you can talk about it all you want in public, but not inside Astrobin where all the knowledgeable people hang out.  And over my brief tenure there I have had quite a few mysteries, some I eventually figured out, some I just ignore because I can't ask. 

Imagine if AP said "Do not ask about AP mounts" in this forum.  :) 

Linwood

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Thanks to Mike, Roland and others that reached out to me this 4th of July weekend

thefamily90 Phillips
 

👍

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of steven ho <StevenHoffman53@...>
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 3:18:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Thanks to Mike, Roland and others that reached out to me this 4th of July weekend
 
It speaks volumes to the dedication of the AP family. The situation has been address and I thank you all.

I don't post my stuff here often enough so here's an image of the Tulip Nebula in NB SHO - https://astrob.in/a4bohj/C/
Thanks to the AP1600AE for carrying the heavy CDK17 load.

All the best 
Steve


Thanks to Mike, Roland and others that reached out to me this 4th of July weekend

steven ho
 

It speaks volumes to the dedication of the AP family. The situation has been address and I thank you all.

I don't post my stuff here often enough so here's an image of the Tulip Nebula in NB SHO - https://astrob.in/a4bohj/C/
Thanks to the AP1600AE for carrying the heavy CDK17 load.

All the best 
Steve


Re: M27 in LRGB + SHO (Dumbbell)

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 02:30 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Do you find the C11 to need a lot of focusing with temperature change? It would seem to me that would be the case since the tube is aluminum and the optics are normal glass, not quartz or zero expansion materials. Maybe where you are in Florida the temps are pretty stable?
Depends on what "a lot" is.  The worst part is early.  I set up just before sunset - earlier and it heats up too much from the sun, later and the mosquitos get too much blood.  This means it goes from a 74F house to maybe 85F ambient, then just as the glass is heating the ambient falls back to around 75F.  By 10pm+/- ambient stops changing fast and at a guess an hour or so later the OTA is probably more stable. Maybe, I do not know for sure. Maybe the vents on the edge help. 

I've tried refocusing based on temperature with zero success, really negative success.  Tracking trend lines they would reverse from one night to the next (probably related to what exact thing I measure).  Perhaps if there was a temp probe on the mirror back.  Now I focus every 45 minutes whether I need to or not, with a safety net checking HFR increase.  Works well.  I probably could change that to 45 minutes for the first few hours, then rarely, but that is inconvenient to program in NINA so I just keep going every 45 minutes. 

I added a Litecrawler.  While it has a lot of benefits, focusing faster (I'd say 50-60% of prior total time) makes focusing more often less costly.  Plus I can now change filters (with filter offsets) while guiding and not have to stop/start due to image shift. 

So short version is: Focus fast, focus often, and I don't think about it too hard.  And Nite/Litecrawlers are great! 

Linwood

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