Date   

Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Bill,

0000220 2022-06-23 22:44:24.993: Info, ASTAP Results, WARNING=Warning inexact scale! Set FOV=2.60d
or scale=2.9"/pix or FL=532mm
ASTAP clearly indicates the problem above. The image scale is set incorrectly. APPM requires that you set the image scale correctly
within the percent tolerance you specify.

Not sure though if skipping means the point is ignored? It seems to know exactly what the problem is, and knows
the correct information for the solve. From a UI perspective it looked like it was just skipping and ignoring that point
over and over for every point in the model.
Bill, bad plate solves happen. In fact they happen a lot with ASTAP and longer focal lengths, so APPM cannot assume that the image
scale reported by ASTAP is correct. And there are cases where the plate solves fail.

Why don't you set the image scale set correctly? That's a requirement for most plate solvers.

-Ray


Re: [ap-ug] AP 900 Dec frozen

Roland Christen
 

I doubt that anything mechanical is frozen. You may simply have a bad connection to the Dec motor. Check that your cables are firmly plugged in.


-----Original Message-----
From: thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
To: ap-ug@groups.io <ap-ug@groups.io>; AP-GTO Groups.io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2022 10:12 am
Subject: [ap-ug] AP 900 Dec frozen

Hello all,
Much to my dismay, after getting up at 4:00 AM to view Jupiter I found the Dec gear was frozen. When using the keypad the scope moved just fine in RA but would not budge N-S. I loosened all knobs on the Dec axis and while I could forcefully move the scope N-S it is clearly frozen or certainly near so. What have I done??? Any thoughts?

JimP  

--
Jim Phillips

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


AP 900 Dec frozen

thefamily90 Phillips
 

Hello all,
Much to my dismay, after getting up at 4:00 AM to view Jupiter I found the Dec gear was frozen. When using the keypad the scope moved just fine in RA but would not budge N-S. I loosened all knobs on the Dec axis and while I could forcefully move the scope N-S it is clearly frozen or certainly near so. What have I done??? Any thoughts?

JimP  


RAPAS on AP900 with CP4

Dan_Paris
 

  Hi everyone,

I have an AP900 with a CP4 mounted on the dovetail above the RA axis.

Since the CP4 protrudes a bit at the rear in this configuration, I was wondering whether there's enough clearance to install a RAPAS?

Thanks,

Dan


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Bill Long
 

Well, it did not work right or at least that is how it seemed to me, and seems to be from the logs perspective:

0000219 2022-06-23 22:44:24.993:       Info,   ASTAP Results, CMDLINE="C:\Program Files\astap\astap.exe" -f "C:\Users\bill\Documents\Astro-Physics\APPM\Image-APPM-2022-06-23-224342.txt-0001-RA_15.954-DEC_47.780.fit" -ra 15.9419679148558 -spd 137.841933604088 -fov 2.13368188134997
0000220 2022-06-23 22:44:24.993:       Info,   ASTAP Results, WARNING=Warning inexact scale! Set FOV=2.60d or scale=2.9"/pix or FL=532mm
0000221 2022-06-23 22:44:25.284:       Info,   State Machine, Solved RA,Dec=       15h 56m 37.79s(      15.943831),   48° 01' 44.4"(      48.029005)
0000222 2022-06-23 22:44:25.285:       Info,   State Machine, JNow RA,Dec=         15h 57m 19.67s(      15.955464),   47° 58' 00.5"(      47.966793)
0000223 2022-06-23 22:44:25.285:       Info,   State Machine, Solved Image Scale X,Y=2.91550159947742, 2.91526874184536
0000224 2022-06-23 22:44:25.306:      Error,   State Machine, BAD X Image Scale...skipping
0000225 2022-06-23 22:44:25.306:       Info, ASTAP Plate Solve, Closing.

It just skips the point, moves to the next, hits the same condition, and skips it as well. 

Not sure though if skipping means the point is ignored? It seems to know exactly what the problem is, and knows the correct information for the solve. From a UI perspective it looked like it was just skipping and ignoring that point over and over for every point in the model.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Claeys <AstroEric@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 7:57 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
When I see the word "Error" I think something didn't work and needs fixing.
When I see "Warning" I know the program is continuing (or should) and that I probably aught to take a look at it at some point.
Sounds like "Bad X Scale" (which is highlighted in a red-ish color in APPM) is really a "Warning".

Perhaps the default for "Refine image scale from solved image" checkbox should be set?  Wouldn't that effectively eliminate or sharply reduce people asking about this message?

Eric


Re: FrankenScope Stage I Step 2

Steve C. Mitchell, Sr., O.D.
 

Hey Chris,

If you might be interested in a real FrankenScope, how about a Celestron heavy duty tripod with that AP mount and Meade OTA? Came with my CGE Pro which sits here boxed up and nonfunctional due to RA motor or motor card issues. Ought to get rid of it all, just haven’t done anything about it since getting my AP1100 mount; WOW! No comparison to anything Meade or Celestron.

Just saying

 

Steve

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Howard Ritter via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2022 6:30 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] FrankenScope Stage I Step 2

 

Hi, Chris—

 

Do you mean you have just the Meade OTA, and that’s why you need to find a tripod? I can’t imagine they’re very plentiful on the used market, unfortunately.

 

If you get lucky, you’ll be glad to know that the bolt holes in the A-P Flat Surface Adapter nicely avoid the cast structural webs on the underside of the tripod head when the FSA is centered and the N is aligned with one of the legs.

 

Good hunting!

 

—howard

 



On Jun 7, 2022, at 1:23 AM, Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...> wrote:

 

LOL! Ironically, I am trying to do the exact same thing. I have a new-from-AP 1600 and a Meade LX200GPS-16. I just need to find another Meade Super Giant Field Tripod for a good deal and get it shipped to Hawaii.


"Always take the high road. There's less traffic."

 

-Christopher Erickson

Observatory Engineer

Summit Kinetics

Waikoloa, Hawaii

 

 

On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 5:39 PM Howard Ritter via groups.io <howard.ritter=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

Well, I couldn’t wait until my son comes over tomorrow. I decided to try it myself, and was thrilled to find that, despite having just turned 77, I could wrangle the components of the 1600GTO onto the tripod by myself and assemble the mount in place.  It looks pretty imposing in the photo, but IRL, when I got it together and stepped back, my reaction was MY GOD THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL THING.

 

Tomorrow the GTOCP4 and 155EDF go on it and I’ll start to RTFM and exercise the mount. When I think I understand its operation well enough, we’ll disassemble it and reassemble it in the back yard with the legs extended. I’ll probably do some imaging with the 155 first, but then swap it out for why I bought the 1600 instead of the 1100 – the Meade 16” SCT. For that, I definitely WILL need my son!

 

Thank you, Rolando, Marj, Amber, George, and the whole crew!

 

—howard

 


<FrankenScope Stage I Step 2.jpeg>

 

 

 


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Eric Claeys
 

When I see the word "Error" I think something didn't work and needs fixing.
When I see "Warning" I know the program is continuing (or should) and that I probably aught to take a look at it at some point.
Sounds like "Bad X Scale" (which is highlighted in a red-ish color in APPM) is really a "Warning".

Perhaps the default for "Refine image scale from solved image" checkbox should be set?  Wouldn't that effectively eliminate or sharply reduce people asking about this message?

Eric


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Roland Christen
 

Thanks for your thoughts, and you  are welcome.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

Dear Ray,Roland, and the whole AP Team,

I read the summaries daily on the Groups as I learn so much from everyone's expertise. I can appreciate both sides of this thread. The frustration is obvious but I also understand that it is hard to to write to all contingencies. We want to eek out everything from our equipment and precious time under clear and dark skies. You provide an incredibly valuable service with the level of responsiveness and detail with which problems and questions are addressed in Groups.io, There aren't many companies where the leaders of the optics and computer side of the operation give so much of their time to support us as the users or customers. There are also a lot of extremely experienced users that help the rest of us as well. Thank you for all you do.

Andrew

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Brent Boshart
 

Prevention of an error is always the best design, a couple thoughts:

1) Instead of entering arcsec/pixel, could we enter the camera pixel size (which never changes for a given camera) and enter the focal length of the setup which most users would maybe more readily know.  From that info arcsec/pixel is calculated. At a glance, I would more likely notice something is wrong from looking at focal length than arcsec/pixel. 

2) APPM has the ability to save and load settings but I don't think there is any indication in the dialogs which setting is currently loaded.  Instead of "settings" I would think of it as more like a "profile" including a description field like "Stowaway-92TCC-ASI2600MM".


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Andrew Arai
 

Dear Ray,Roland, and the whole AP Team,

I read the summaries daily on the Groups as I learn so much from everyone's expertise. I can appreciate both sides of this thread. The frustration is obvious but I also understand that it is hard to to write to all contingencies. We want to eek out everything from our equipment and precious time under clear and dark skies. You provide an incredibly valuable service with the level of responsiveness and detail with which problems and questions are addressed in Groups.io, There aren't many companies where the leaders of the optics and computer side of the operation give so much of their time to support us as the users or customers. There are also a lot of extremely experienced users that help the rest of us as well. Thank you for all you do.

Andrew


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Bill Long
 

You are a better man than I. I can't do much of anything on so little sleep. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 11:19 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 

Nonetheless I appreciate the quick timely suggestion from Roland that saved me a lot of time and enabled me to go to sleep earlier. 😂
Only reason you got timely advise is because I was up in my observatory at 2am testing scopes. Glad you got some sleep. I went home at 4am and headed back to work at 10am. Stuck out tongue closed eyes

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

Awesome. My half awake self would definitely benefit from such a change. My fully awake self probably would have figured it out fairly quick. 

Nonetheless I appreciate the quick timely suggestion from Roland that saved me a lot of time and enabled me to go to sleep earlier. 😂



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 5:49 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Bill,
 
> Either way, telling the user Bad X Scale, is useless. There is nothing they can do in terms of the UI to solve that,
 
I understand, but it does have unique text that you can use in a browser search if a user does not know what it means. And BTW, in the code, it (exactly)means that the plate solved image's X-axis image scale is outside the image scale tolerance. You can avoid this error if you follow the recommendation in the APPM help section,  which is displayed in a different color and bold text. I’ve marked the relevant text in this screenshot:
 
 
>
> Lets flip this around, what did you, as the developer assume people would do with the error message of "Bad X
> Scale"?
 
I would expect peope to either post a message to the ap-gto forum, as you did, or find the answer by doing this obvious google keyword search:
 
APPM “Bad X Scale”
 
As a developer and user of Windows since the very first version, I've seen many Windows error messages and hex codes that are pretty meaningless. Although I agree the goal should always be to present a message that helps the user, there are cases where giving a long explanation can be confusing too.
 
That said, I’ll see if I can come up with a better short phrase for “the plate-solve’s image scale doesn’t fall within the tolerance of the configured image scale”.
 
-Ray

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Roland Christen
 


Nonetheless I appreciate the quick timely suggestion from Roland that saved me a lot of time and enabled me to go to sleep earlier. 😂
Only reason you got timely advise is because I was up in my observatory at 2am testing scopes. Glad you got some sleep. I went home at 4am and headed back to work at 10am. Stuck out tongue closed eyes

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 12:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

Awesome. My half awake self would definitely benefit from such a change. My fully awake self probably would have figured it out fairly quick. 

Nonetheless I appreciate the quick timely suggestion from Roland that saved me a lot of time and enabled me to go to sleep earlier. 😂



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 5:49 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Bill,
 
> Either way, telling the user Bad X Scale, is useless. There is nothing they can do in terms of the UI to solve that,
 
I understand, but it does have unique text that you can use in a browser search if a user does not know what it means. And BTW, in the code, it (exactly)means that the plate solved image's X-axis image scale is outside the image scale tolerance. You can avoid this error if you follow the recommendation in the APPM help section,  which is displayed in a different color and bold text. I’ve marked the relevant text in this screenshot:
 
 
>
> Lets flip this around, what did you, as the developer assume people would do with the error message of "Bad X
> Scale"?
 
I would expect peope to either post a message to the ap-gto forum, as you did, or find the answer by doing this obvious google keyword search:
 
APPM “Bad X Scale”
 
As a developer and user of Windows since the very first version, I've seen many Windows error messages and hex codes that are pretty meaningless. Although I agree the goal should always be to present a message that helps the user, there are cases where giving a long explanation can be confusing too.
 
That said, I’ll see if I can come up with a better short phrase for “the plate-solve’s image scale doesn’t fall within the tolerance of the configured image scale”.
 
-Ray

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Bill Long
 

😂



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Nagy <topboxman@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:52 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
"Bad X Scale" is about as useful as OxBEEFTURD.
This almost reminds me of old Wendy's commercial "Where's the beef?".

Peter


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Peter Nagy
 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 11:16 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
"Bad X Scale" is about as useful as OxBEEFTURD.
This almost reminds me of old Wendy's commercial "Where's the beef?".

Peter


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Bill Long
 

Awesome. My half awake self would definitely benefit from such a change. My fully awake self probably would have figured it out fairly quick. 

Nonetheless I appreciate the quick timely suggestion from Roland that saved me a lot of time and enabled me to go to sleep earlier. 😂



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 5:49 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 

Hi Bill,

 

> Either way, telling the user Bad X Scale, is useless. There is nothing they can do in terms of the UI to solve that,

 

I understand, but it does have unique text that you can use in a browser search if a user does not know what it means. And BTW, in the code, it (exactly)means that the plate solved image's X-axis image scale is outside the image scale tolerance. You can avoid this error if you follow the recommendation in the APPM help section,  which is displayed in a different color and bold text. I’ve marked the relevant text in this screenshot:

 

 

>

> Lets flip this around, what did you, as the developer assume people would do with the error message of "Bad X

> Scale"?

 

I would expect peope to either post a message to the ap-gto forum, as you did, or find the answer by doing this obvious google keyword search:

 

APPM “Bad X Scale”

 

As a developer and user of Windows since the very first version, I've seen many Windows error messages and hex codes that are pretty meaningless. Although I agree the goal should always be to present a message that helps the user, there are cases where giving a long explanation can be confusing too.

 

That said, I’ll see if I can come up with a better short phrase for “the plate-solve’s image scale doesn’t fall within the tolerance of the configured image scale”.

 

-Ray


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Bill Long
 

I can relate to that for sure!



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:35 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
I've done so many odd things in my life that it's affecting my nightmares at night.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 11:51 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

The odd thing is that I've never changed any of the plate solve settings, yet I've definitely changed scopes and cameras around. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 7:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Todd,

> That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
> day.
> I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.

There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray







--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Roland Christen
 

I've done so many odd things in my life that it's affecting my nightmares at night.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2022 11:51 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?

The odd thing is that I've never changed any of the plate solve settings, yet I've definitely changed scopes and cameras around. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 7:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Todd,

> That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
> day.
> I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.

There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray







--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Bill Long
 

The odd thing is that I've never changed any of the plate solve settings, yet I've definitely changed scopes and cameras around. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 7:17 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC - Bad X Scale?
 
Hi Todd,

> That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
> day.
> I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.

There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray







Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Dean Jacobsen
 

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 07:17 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.
... and it has happened to me before... several times in fact as I frequently swap out reducers and cameras and then forget to adjust the pixel scale settings.  Now when I see the message I immediately know the fix.  But the first time it happened it took me a while to figure out the problem.
 
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: APCC - Bad X Scale?

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Todd,

That said, I can see where this may prevent a wasted night if its late and the support doesnt come in until the next
day.
I don't know the details to implementing it so again, just food for thought.
There should never be a wasted night. The "Bad X Scale" error is not fatal. It will not be continuous unless the image scale is set incorrectly, nd that is something that the user needs to correct. As I posted earlier, the section in the APPM manual recommends that the Refine Image scale checkbox be enabled, which would automatically fix the image scale, provided the plate solve works. And if the plate solve does not work, then image scale should be one of the first things to check.

-Ray

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