Date   

Re: APPM

 

Hi Michael

>>>If I already have a model in apcc, shoulld I disable the pointing and tracking model before creating a new model.  Thanks,'

yes. Although i'm not sure if it automatically disables it but yes it should be disabled

On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 7:29 PM Michael Freeberg <mdfreeb@...> wrote:
I plan on creating a new model with appm.  If I already have a model in apcc, shoulld I disable the pointing and tracking model before creating a new model.  Thanks,''




Re: Having fun with old equipment

Patrick Sparkman
 

Quick question about your model Roland.  Was that an all sky 190 point model, or did you do a Dec-Arc model around the Dec of your target?  Just wondering what you settings were for the model.  I am still trying to get a handle on the Dec-arc vs just Enable Tracking Correction.  I have not been able to get consistent unguided results like you describe with my AP1600AE, and am wondering if there are some guidelines on the settings needed for particular focal lengths.  I know that a while back that George had a post with some guidelines, but I couldn't find it.

BTW - Nice image of M57.  You did a good job processing it to maintain the colors.


Re: Status of Encoders From Renishaw

Patrick Sparkman
 

Great!  I have been wanting to upgrade my AP1100 since I got it.  I went to website and found the encoder upgrade page, then put my email into the Notify Me box.  Is that what I needed to do to get on the list?  Or is there something else?


APPM

Michael Freeberg
 

I plan on creating a new model with appm.  If I already have a model in apcc, shoulld I disable the pointing and tracking model before creating a new model.  Thanks,''


Re: Possibly piggybacking a SkyWatcher Esprit 120mm on a C11" EdgeHD on an AP1100 mount

Bruce Donzanti
 

Thanks, Bryan.  This is good to know as I also image with both of my scopes but usually one at a time.  Your combined weight on the mount sounds about 70 lbs vs. the 50 lbs mine (minus accessories) would be.  So, this is very encouraging news.  I have been guiding, up to 10 minutes, with an OAG on the C11 and I use this also to guide the refractor with no issues as I am not using APPM-APPC.  So, this is something else I can explore.


Re: Possibly piggybacking a SkyWatcher Esprit 120mm on a C11" EdgeHD on an AP1100 mount

Bruce Donzanti
 

Thanks, Dean.  However, the C11 is the mainstay as my main imaging scope and I have not had issues with error/flexure, especially after refitting the standard secondary mirror with the Optec secondary mirror fast focus system.  Issues like flexure, mirror flop, and shifting are essentially nonexistent, even after doing 10 minute guided exposures all night long.   Perhaps the added weight of the Esprit might change that and I would just have to test it.


Re: Possibly piggybacking a SkyWatcher Esprit 120mm on a C11" EdgeHD on an AP1100 mount

Worsel
 

Bruce

I have a 130 Stellarvue refractor piggybacked on a 14.5 CDK mounted on a non-AE 1100.  Each scope has a camera.  I have had no problems imaging with either and sometimes both.
I can image unguided, using APPM-APPC model, with the refractor.  I guide when using the 14.5 with an OAG.


Bryan


Re: Encoder / Clutch "drift"?

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 02:42 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
yes, that is correct way to re-establish the correct starting point.
Thanks, Roland.  Do you ever take a day off?  :) 

Brian, thanks for the advice, I guess I think the cure is not worse than the disease, so long as I have so many changes going on. It has been months since the clutch saved me, but it has happened.  Always some form of self inflicted issue (I guess almost by definition it will be), but I still consider them a good safety net. 

As long as I understand what can happen, I'll incorporate steps to repair, like if I think I moved it (and periodically regardless) include a FIND HOME in the mix). 

Linwood


Re: Encoder / Clutch "drift"?

Roland Christen
 

yes, that is correct way to re-establish the correct starting point.

Rolando
Was that the right fix?   Find home, reset by hand so the dec/ra matches, and unpark from park 2? 



-----Original Message-----
From: ap@... <ap@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 18, 2022 12:17 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Encoder / Clutch "drift"?

I learned something last night, at least I think I learned something, and wonder if someone could straighten me out if I misunderstand.  This is about an AP1100AE. 

Short version - I have my RA limits set to 20 minutes past meridian, and last night hit the limit with the OTA still pointing well east (i.e. well before it got to the meridian).  I went out and it was physically pointing east (pierside west). 

Here's my diagnosis after doing a bit of experimenting and thinking.

First clue, I keep my clutches a bit loose.  Because I set up and tear down, use different OTA's, and basically because 'stuff happens' if I have an equipment collision I want it to slip easily before something bends.  With it balanced nothing ever slips in use normally.

However, when experiment inside, using it to carry equipment for changing out parts, and occasionally setting up and tearing down, I might move an axis against the clutches. Then I just put it back and move on.  Each night a plate solve and sync and I'm good to go anyway.  I unpark from last parked, and park to park 3 for teardown.  Once in a while if I think I really screwed it up I park 2 or 3, move the clutches, and unpark from that number.

My theory is over time the unparking (after some physical movement) resulted in a bit of drift, so that the mount (not the encoder part) thought it was in the right place, but the encoders thought it was somewhere else.  Since they are used primarily for tracking not pointing, nothing bad happened until they hit this limit (in the wrong place). 

So I did a FIND HOME (which I have set to the park 2 position) and indeed it ended up with both axes maybe 10 degrees or so (eyeball estimate) off.  I moved them against the clutch to the right place, parked and unparked a couple positions, all looked good. 

So is that what happened?   That with some park/unpark resetting at times (without care apparently), the encoders can get different from the mount position? 

Was that the right fix?   Find home, reset by hand so the dec/ra matches, and unpark from park 2? 

Now it should be right until I manage to move it a few more times? 

Please note I realize that I can tighten the clutches very tight without harm, and that the mount is unlikely to be damaged in an equipment collision.  But not so cables and cameras and other less durable stuff.  So I really like that I can leave the clutches loose to protect me from self inflicted harm.  It's a nice safety net.  My goal in this question is not to prevent such drift so much as make sure I understand it, so I can correct it in advance in the future if I have moved the plate against the clutch. 

Linwood

PS. On a mildly related topic: Occasionally at night I want to change equipment, for example add a big metal dew shield, and want to rebalance.  I park-3 it, and release the gear switch and balance, but there's this background chittering that sounds like it is coming from the encoders.  Which confuses me, as parked it should not be trying to maintain position, right?  Am I harming anything, is that the right process, or should I power off? 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Encoder / Clutch "drift"?

 

Hi Linwood

>>>First clue, I keep my clutches a bit loose.  

I think it really depends on how loose they are. if they are loose to the point of slipping, then yes that could very well explain what you're seeing

the fix is to point the scope somewhere and sync it. That will reset the positioning. As an aside for the Mach 2, this is not required as I understand the encoder and absolute positioning is different there.

However, i really would recommend keeping your clutches tight. I would not use loose clutches as a safety mechanism





On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 10:17 AM ap@... <ap@...> wrote:
I learned something last night, at least I think I learned something, and wonder if someone could straighten me out if I misunderstand.  This is about an AP1100AE. 

Short version - I have my RA limits set to 20 minutes past meridian, and last night hit the limit with the OTA still pointing well east (i.e. well before it got to the meridian).  I went out and it was physically pointing east (pierside west). 

Here's my diagnosis after doing a bit of experimenting and thinking.

First clue, I keep my clutches a bit loose.  Because I set up and tear down, use different OTA's, and basically because 'stuff happens' if I have an equipment collision I want it to slip easily before something bends.  With it balanced nothing ever slips in use normally.

However, when experiment inside, using it to carry equipment for changing out parts, and occasionally setting up and tearing down, I might move an axis against the clutches. Then I just put it back and move on.  Each night a plate solve and sync and I'm good to go anyway.  I unpark from last parked, and park to park 3 for teardown.  Once in a while if I think I really screwed it up I park 2 or 3, move the clutches, and unpark from that number.

My theory is over time the unparking (after some physical movement) resulted in a bit of drift, so that the mount (not the encoder part) thought it was in the right place, but the encoders thought it was somewhere else.  Since they are used primarily for tracking not pointing, nothing bad happened until they hit this limit (in the wrong place). 

So I did a FIND HOME (which I have set to the park 2 position) and indeed it ended up with both axes maybe 10 degrees or so (eyeball estimate) off.  I moved them against the clutch to the right place, parked and unparked a couple positions, all looked good. 

So is that what happened?   That with some park/unpark resetting at times (without care apparently), the encoders can get different from the mount position? 

Was that the right fix?   Find home, reset by hand so the dec/ra matches, and unpark from park 2? 

Now it should be right until I manage to move it a few more times? 

Please note I realize that I can tighten the clutches very tight without harm, and that the mount is unlikely to be damaged in an equipment collision.  But not so cables and cameras and other less durable stuff.  So I really like that I can leave the clutches loose to protect me from self inflicted harm.  It's a nice safety net.  My goal in this question is not to prevent such drift so much as make sure I understand it, so I can correct it in advance in the future if I have moved the plate against the clutch. 

Linwood

PS. On a mildly related topic: Occasionally at night I want to change equipment, for example add a big metal dew shield, and want to rebalance.  I park-3 it, and release the gear switch and balance, but there's this background chittering that sounds like it is coming from the encoders.  Which confuses me, as parked it should not be trying to maintain position, right?  Am I harming anything, is that the right process, or should I power off? 




Encoder / Clutch "drift"?

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

I learned something last night, at least I think I learned something, and wonder if someone could straighten me out if I misunderstand.  This is about an AP1100AE. 

Short version - I have my RA limits set to 20 minutes past meridian, and last night hit the limit with the OTA still pointing well east (i.e. well before it got to the meridian).  I went out and it was physically pointing east (pierside west). 

Here's my diagnosis after doing a bit of experimenting and thinking.

First clue, I keep my clutches a bit loose.  Because I set up and tear down, use different OTA's, and basically because 'stuff happens' if I have an equipment collision I want it to slip easily before something bends.  With it balanced nothing ever slips in use normally.

However, when experiment inside, using it to carry equipment for changing out parts, and occasionally setting up and tearing down, I might move an axis against the clutches. Then I just put it back and move on.  Each night a plate solve and sync and I'm good to go anyway.  I unpark from last parked, and park to park 3 for teardown.  Once in a while if I think I really screwed it up I park 2 or 3, move the clutches, and unpark from that number.

My theory is over time the unparking (after some physical movement) resulted in a bit of drift, so that the mount (not the encoder part) thought it was in the right place, but the encoders thought it was somewhere else.  Since they are used primarily for tracking not pointing, nothing bad happened until they hit this limit (in the wrong place). 

So I did a FIND HOME (which I have set to the park 2 position) and indeed it ended up with both axes maybe 10 degrees or so (eyeball estimate) off.  I moved them against the clutch to the right place, parked and unparked a couple positions, all looked good. 

So is that what happened?   That with some park/unpark resetting at times (without care apparently), the encoders can get different from the mount position? 

Was that the right fix?   Find home, reset by hand so the dec/ra matches, and unpark from park 2? 

Now it should be right until I manage to move it a few more times? 

Please note I realize that I can tighten the clutches very tight without harm, and that the mount is unlikely to be damaged in an equipment collision.  But not so cables and cameras and other less durable stuff.  So I really like that I can leave the clutches loose to protect me from self inflicted harm.  It's a nice safety net.  My goal in this question is not to prevent such drift so much as make sure I understand it, so I can correct it in advance in the future if I have moved the plate against the clutch. 

Linwood

PS. On a mildly related topic: Occasionally at night I want to change equipment, for example add a big metal dew shield, and want to rebalance.  I park-3 it, and release the gear switch and balance, but there's this background chittering that sounds like it is coming from the encoders.  Which confuses me, as parked it should not be trying to maintain position, right?  Am I harming anything, is that the right process, or should I power off? 


Re: APPC

David Johnson
 

This would be a nice feature to add.  Sometimes, there are a few clouds, and it would be good to be able to repeat just a few points without redoing the entire acquisition.  SkyTrack has this feature for its new capability for satellite point pass modeling, and it comes in handy.


Re: Status of Encoders From Renishaw

 

Hello Mike,

 

We will have them later this year. Once I have an estimated delivery date, we will start notifying people that have signed up on the website.  

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com
Video Tutorials: https://www.youtube.com/astrophysicscorp 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 5:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Status of Encoders From Renishaw

 

I haven't asked for a while, so I was wondering if there are any status updates on the availability of Renishaw encoders for mount upgrades.

Mike


Re: Having fun with old equipment

Roland Christen
 

STL11k takes about 30 seconds to download.

We have both a color and mono version of the 35mm full frame ZWO.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2022 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Having fun with old equipment

Great image Roland That 17-inch has some serious resolution. 

How long is the download time for the old STL11K ?

And your ZWO camera, is it a color or mono version ?

Mike

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] Having fun with old equipment

Pete Lardizabal
 

Lovely Ring Roland!

Happy Dad’s Day to You and all AP User Group Dads out there. 

😎

Pete

On Jun 17, 2022, at 4:47 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

Having recently purchased a ZWO CMOS camera and putting it thru its paces, I am impressed with how much easier it is to take great images. Download times are very fast, resolution is unreal. However, this camera produces such large files that it makes processing a real bear. Just trying to combine a large number of files causes my laptop to give up the ghost.

I have had an old SBIG STL11K sitting here unused for a long time, so I thought I would dust off this old monster to see what it could do. We do not have great conditions here for deep sky, so I have to image the brighter objects, like M57. I put it on the 17" F8 astrograph and immediately discovered that the tiny internal guide chip just won't show any stars in the star-poor regions away from the Milky Way. Can't use a guide scope with the 17" due to focal length, flexure etc. The solution for me was to fire up APCC and do a point map.

Easier said than done. Although the software is straight forward, the old STL11K has a hugely long download time, even binned 2x2. So to do a mapping run of 190 points took about 2 1/2 hours of precious dark sky. In the end it was worth it. Starting image runs at midnight, I still had another 2 + hours of imaging before the first hints of dawn. Fortunately the almost full Moon was far south, so I didn't have much in the way of gradients.

How did the scope track with APCC modeling with the 1600 encoder mount? Round stars at 4 minute and even 6 minute exposures for the duration of the session. And that's at 3454mm focal length at 0.5 arc sec per pixel. The mount drifted about 8 pixels during that entire session. Hats off to Ray Gralack for this wonderful program.

Take a peek:
https://www.astrobin.com/full/wqa9yw/0/?mod=&real=

Rolando

(I did make one error at the beginning when I entered the wrong pixel scale. Old age or?)


Re: Possibly piggybacking a SkyWatcher Esprit 120mm on a C11" EdgeHD on an AP1100 mount

Dean Jacobsen
 

You could certainly try it and see.  My recommendation would be to swap the 120 mm refractor for the C11 and then you eliminate a potential source of error/flexure.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: Having fun with old equipment

M Hambrick
 

Great image Roland That 17-inch has some serious resolution. 

How long is the download time for the old STL11K ?

And your ZWO camera, is it a color or mono version ?

Mike


Status of Encoders From Renishaw

M Hambrick
 

I haven't asked for a while, so I was wondering if there are any status updates on the availability of Renishaw encoders for mount upgrades.

Mike


Possibly piggybacking a SkyWatcher Esprit 120mm on a C11" EdgeHD on an AP1100 mount

Bruce Donzanti
 

I have been imaging with a Stellarvue 80mm APO triplet piggybacked on a C11" EdgeHD on my AP1100 for the past 4 years in my observatory with no issues.  Both scopes produce nice long exposure images with PHD2 guiding on the AP1100.  I was toying with the idea of removing the 8 lb 80mm and placing it with the 22 lb 120mm.  This is still within the weight capacity of the 1100 and the accessories are minimal (autofocuser, FW, dew heater).  However, would you expect imaging results to suffer due to the additional weight or is this a matter of simply trying it, and see?  


Re: Having fun with old equipment

Dean Jacobsen
 

APCC modeling is definitely the way to go.

I had an STL 11K back in the day.  I got some pretty good shots with it on my Epsilon 160.  It was a real PITA to use with the USB 1 downloads.  Getting a decent number of flats took a loooong time.

Your M57 looks nice.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/

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