Date   

Re: GoTos

weems@...
 

I haven’t weighed the whole setup. The C14 has a carbon tube, so it’s a tiny bit lighter than standard. The refractor is about 22lbs.  Counterweight is 2 30s, a 24, and an 18, tight against the top of the bar, plus a 10 that provides fine balance, and is 2” below the rest. So 112, but with a shorter moment arm than the OTAs. The bar also adds a few lbs.

Chip


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Erkaslan Aygen
 

Ray,

Below is the message that I get when I use a period as a decimal point. As soon as I put the setting back to normal, then the message vanishes and I can again open Voyager.

Aygen


Re: New JPL Format for Horizons Ephemeris #APCC - Format Causes Issue #APCC

Geert
 

I used Horizons for the first time after these changes on the JPL website and I get the same error, also the time format is 12hr off.  I hope APCC Horizons gets fixed soon :-)

Best regards,

Geert Vdbulcke

Op do 14 okt. 2021 om 13:52 schreef Ray Gralak <iogroups@...>:

I can’t tell what you might have done wrong given the screenshots, but there will be an update to APCC available soon that can use the new Horizons website format.

 

-Ray

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of dnakic via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:11 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New JPL Format for Horizons Ephemeris #APCC - Format Causes Issue

 

Ray, I did these steps and for some reason I'm getting the following error and cannot connect system.  I followed the steps you provided, with my inputs below.  When I selected the text, I'm highlighting all of it (top and bottom portion of text shown).  Appreciate you insight (I'm sure there is something that I did incorrectly).  Thanks!



Re: GoTos

Scott Cooke
 

Chip,
Thanks for responding. Impressive setup.  I love how you made it not much wider than the dovetail saddle.  How much weight do you think the mount is carrying?  90-100 lbs?  How much counterweight do you have?  I use 4 18lb weights with just my C14 setup for visual.  

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 3:54 PM <weems@...> wrote:
Responding to Scott, here are some photos of the tandem setup on my 900. The main saddle is a DOVELM162. The tandem plate is an SBD18SS, the C14 is on another DOVELM162, with a Losmandy C14 dovetail and mounting blocks. The 6"f9 is on an ADM TGAD, with a custom riser block to match the hole patterns, and allow it to clear the raised, central section of the SBD. The scope is on a Losmandy plate that has AP mounting hole patterns, so the rings can attach to it.

To adjust out cone error for the C14, I made some brass plates to go between the plate and the blocks, which allows the safety knob to be replaced with a SS cap screw. Otherwise, the screw would go into a recess in the blocks. It's much easier to dial in the correction this way, rather than trial and error with shims, for such a heavy scope. Once the C14 is set, the TGAD allows the refractor to be made parallel. However, the TGAD does have some flexure, so the relative position of objects shifts a little in different orientations. If there's a better solution for two-axis alignment, I'd love to try it. 

With the dew shield the C14 extends nearly as far forward as the refractor, but being tail-heavy, it doesn't extend out as far in back. 

Chip




Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Ray Gralak
 

The only problem with the decimal point adjustment is that I will not longer be able to use my automation
software properly !
You said you have a problem with Voyager, right? I think Voyager software works fine here in the U.S. using a period as a decimal point, so it should be possible.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Erkaslan Aygen
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

The only problem with the decimal point adjustment is that I will not longer be able to use my automation
software properly !

I will keep you posted as soon as I perform some test with a former version (e.g. 5.21.01).

Aygen


Re: GoTos

Robert Berta
 

Another thought....Do you have a location for your observing stored in the HC and are you sure you are using that one. I have a few different sites saved in my hand controller so if you have the wrong one in use it is going to throw everything off. This could also apply if you are using some software  such as The Sky or Sky Safari....make sure you have the correct observing site. If you are using Sky Safari there was a bug in a version about 2 back which had the wrong hour even when you set it correctly. I notified them and it was fixed.


Re: GoTos

Robert Berta
 

try removing both scopes and put a refractor on in standard position...centered instead of offset. See if that helps. With that much weight and I suspect not equally balanced side to side, that may be part of the issue. I have a AP 900 and AP 1100. At one time I did run a 14" SCT on the 900 by itself along with heavy full frame SBIG camera, auto guide  scope and camera, autofocuser, etc. That is a lot of possible flex culprits. I remember seeing an article about the effect of flexure....as I recall just a few thousands of an inch makes a big difference. 


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Erkaslan Aygen
 

The only problem with the decimal point adjustment is that I will not longer be able to use my automation software properly ! 

I will keep you posted as soon as I perform some test with a former version (e.g. 5.21.01).

Aygen


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Erkaslan Aygen
 

Good point. I did check and the last update was around August - so two month ago. 

I change lots of settings to minimize windows update... but as you mentioned, there are always some coming in.... and messing with our stuffs.


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Ray Gralak
 

Aygen,

Your setup is behaving unexpectedly, so it is up to do what you need to get running. The problem seems to be with the ASCOM driver, not APCC. However, it is puzzling because this should be happening in version 5.30.10 of the driver.

The only temporary solution using the driver is to run everything in U.S.floating-point format.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Erkaslan Aygen
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:35 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Good evening Ray,

Honestly, I don't know why all of this is happening all of a sudden. I didn't change anything software / drivers
wise.

So, tomorrow I will install a former version (5.21.09 ?) and see what comes next. I was also wondering whether
I should uninstall APCC and give it a go with the AP driver only.

Anyway, very sorry to bother you all with this ongoing issue.

Best,
Aygen



Le dim. 17 oct. 2021 à 22:27, Ray Gralak <iogroups@siriusimaging.com> a écrit :


Hi Aygen,

You could go back to the old driver, but it's not clear to me why this version of the driver is not
working, especially since you said it was working a few days back. Can you tell me what has changed?

-Ray


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Erkaslan Aygen
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:17 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been
received!"
>
> Dear Ray, Dear All,
>
> I did apply thoroughly Ray's recommendation to adjust Windows regional setting to use "." as a
decimal point
> rather than the "," that we have in Switzerland / Europe.
>
> Here are my findings following the above adjustment :
>
>
>
> * Software used : APT TOOL.
> * Result : APCC no longer trigger the "Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been
> received". As a result, it's working !
>
>
> However, by adjusting the decimal point by ".", I can no longer access my automation software, i.e.
"Voyager"
> ! Needless to say that I am stuck and embarrassed ! What can I do ?
>
>
>
> 1. Should I install a former version of AP driver ? If so, I understand that you need the 5.30...
version in
> order to use it with APCC
> 2. Any other thoughts / suggestions ?
> 3. What is this "decimal point" issue started to really bother me since a few days whereas
everything was
> up and running so far ?
>
>
> I am gently getting desperate :(
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> My best regards,
> Aygen
>
>









Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Erkaslan Aygen wrote:

 

  • Not to the best of my knowledge. I remember having upgraded about 3 weeks ago... 

I can try to install a former version just for sanity check... who knows ! The thing is I am also getting the same error message with APT if the decimal point is not adjusted.

_._,_._,_

Windows update?

 

Microsoft still sneaks into my system at unexpected times and changes things I did not get told about.

 

 


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Erkaslan Aygen
 

Not to the best of my knowledge. I remember having upgraded about 3 weeks ago... 

I can try to install a former version just for sanity check... who knows ! The thing is I am also getting the same error message with APT if the decimal point is not adjusted.


Re: Followup: Re: [ap-gto] Mr. Whang's Mach2 with TOA150

Chris White
 

On Sun, Oct 17, 2021 at 04:03 PM, fernandorivera3 wrote:
As for maintenance of an old legacy 900 GTO mount- no plans to re-grease the gears using the AP special grease kit 🤔 ???

Fernando
I guess I should have used the word "tinker-wise"  lol...

I actually have the special grease kit and plan to do a re-grease at some point here after I've finished tinkering with scopes and cameras.


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Erkaslan Aygen wrote:

 

  • Honestly, I don't know why all of this is happening all of a sudden. I didn't change anything software / drivers wise. 

 

Is it possible that Voyager changed, I know it gets pretty rapid updates.  Did you update it?  Maybe it introduced some internationalization into its APCC connection data (or ascom v2 connection, not sure how it ties in) that aren't liked on the receiving end?

 


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Erkaslan Aygen
 

Good evening Ray,

Honestly, I don't know why all of this is happening all of a sudden. I didn't change anything software / drivers wise. 

So, tomorrow I will install a former version (5.21.09 ?) and see what comes next. I was also wondering whether I should uninstall APCC and give it a go with the AP driver only.

Anyway, very sorry to bother you all with this ongoing issue. 

Best,
Aygen  



Le dim. 17 oct. 2021 à 22:27, Ray Gralak <iogroups@...> a écrit :
Hi Aygen,

You could go back to the old driver, but it's not clear to me why this version of the driver is not working, especially since you said it was working a few days back. Can you tell me what has changed?

-Ray


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Erkaslan Aygen
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:17 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"
>
> Dear Ray, Dear All,
>
> I did apply thoroughly Ray's recommendation to adjust Windows regional setting to use "." as a decimal point
> rather than the "," that we have in Switzerland / Europe.
>
> Here are my findings following the above adjustment :
>
>
>
> *     Software used : APT TOOL.
> *     Result : APCC no longer trigger the "Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been
> received". As a result, it's working !
>
>
> However, by adjusting the decimal point by ".", I can no longer access my automation software, i.e. "Voyager"
> ! Needless to say that I am stuck and embarrassed ! What can I do ?
>
>
>
> 1.    Should I install a former version of AP driver ? If so, I understand that you need the 5.30... version in
> order to use it with APCC
> 2.    Any other thoughts / suggestions ?
> 3.    What is this "decimal point" issue started to really bother me since a few days whereas everything was
> up and running so far ?
>
>
> I am gently getting desperate :(
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> My best regards,
> Aygen
>
>







Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Aygen,

You could go back to the old driver, but it's not clear to me why this version of the driver is not working, especially since you said it was working a few days back. Can you tell me what has changed?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Erkaslan Aygen
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2021 1:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Dear Ray, Dear All,

I did apply thoroughly Ray's recommendation to adjust Windows regional setting to use "." as a decimal point
rather than the "," that we have in Switzerland / Europe.

Here are my findings following the above adjustment :



* Software used : APT TOOL.
* Result : APCC no longer trigger the "Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been
received". As a result, it's working !


However, by adjusting the decimal point by ".", I can no longer access my automation software, i.e. "Voyager"
! Needless to say that I am stuck and embarrassed ! What can I do ?



1. Should I install a former version of AP driver ? If so, I understand that you need the 5.30... version in
order to use it with APCC
2. Any other thoughts / suggestions ?
3. What is this "decimal point" issue started to really bother me since a few days whereas everything was
up and running so far ?


I am gently getting desperate :(

Thank you for your help.

My best regards,
Aygen


Re: VPort2 / Fault / Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received!"

Erkaslan Aygen
 

Dear Ray, Dear All,

I did apply thoroughly Ray's recommendation to adjust Windows regional setting to use "." as a decimal point rather than the "," that we have in Switzerland / Europe.

Here are my findings following the above adjustment : 

  • Software used : APT TOOL. 
  • Result : APCC no longer trigger the "Sync Target: Valid Alt/Az, RA/Dec, HA/Dec has not been received". As a result, it's working ! 

However, by adjusting the decimal point by ".", I can no longer access my automation software, i.e. "Voyager" ! Needless to say that I am stuck and embarrassed ! What can I do ? 

  1. Should I install a former version of AP driver ? If so, I understand that you need the 5.30... version in order to use it with APCC
  2. Any other thoughts / suggestions ? 
  3. What is this "decimal point" issue started to really bother me since a few days whereas everything was up and running so far ? 

I am gently getting desperate :(

Thank you for your help. 

My best regards,
Aygen


Re: Followup: Re: [ap-gto] Mr. Whang's Mach2 with TOA150

fernandorivera3
 

As for maintenance of an old legacy 900 GTO mount- no plans to re-grease the gears using the AP special grease kit 🤔 ???

Fernando


Re: GoTos

weems@...
 

Responding to Scott, here are some photos of the tandem setup on my 900. The main saddle is a DOVELM162. The tandem plate is an SBD18SS, the C14 is on another DOVELM162, with a Losmandy C14 dovetail and mounting blocks. The 6"f9 is on an ADM TGAD, with a custom riser block to match the hole patterns, and allow it to clear the raised, central section of the SBD. The scope is on a Losmandy plate that has AP mounting hole patterns, so the rings can attach to it.

To adjust out cone error for the C14, I made some brass plates to go between the plate and the blocks, which allows the safety knob to be replaced with a SS cap screw. Otherwise, the screw would go into a recess in the blocks. It's much easier to dial in the correction this way, rather than trial and error with shims, for such a heavy scope. Once the C14 is set, the TGAD allows the refractor to be made parallel. However, the TGAD does have some flexure, so the relative position of objects shifts a little in different orientations. If there's a better solution for two-axis alignment, I'd love to try it. 

With the dew shield the C14 extends nearly as far forward as the refractor, but being tail-heavy, it doesn't extend out as far in back. 

Chip




Re: Followup: Re: [ap-gto] Mr. Whang's Mach2 with TOA150

Chris White
 

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 12:54 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Originally mounts had their worm gears fixed in place and hard attached to the main axis. This gave the mounts a nice solid feel which was perfect for the visual users that dominated astronomy 20 + years ago. The main problem was slight backlash that was always present because a fixed worm needs a certain amount of clearance to prevent binding. Our legacy mounts, the 400, 600, 800, 900 and 1200 mounts were built this way. Most visual users would simply loosen the clutches a bit and move the scope around manually, so gear backlash was never really noticed. These mounts worked perfectly fine with longish refractors that came in F9 to F12 and beyond focal ratios in sizes from 5 to 10 inches.
 
Along came CCD cameras and now people want to do astrophotography. At first the 9 micron pixel cameras did not put too much pressure on the precision needed, but eventually smaller pixels come to market and they require more and more precision. So we mount manufacturers develop Periodic Error Compensation to combat worm irregularities. Fixed worms present a problem because of backlash, and that's mainly a problem in Declination where the axis is asked to reverse periodically (RA never reverses so no backlash issue). To combat backlash we introduce spring loaded worms with backstops. The gearbox assemblies now are attached to pivots that gently press the worms into full mesh. This gives the mounts a certain amount of springiness when they are handled in a traditional manner with long heavy refractors, but it produces a vastly superior precise motion in DEC for imaging. The tradeoff then is elimination of backlash and the constant fiddling with worm mesh versus a more springy mount if you push it around manually.

I have a legacy mount, 900GTO and perhaps I've never pushed the equipment enough but I'm not sure how much more precision I could get that would even translate into better images.  I purchased the mount second hand last winter, and I don't think I've thrown out a single sub due to mount issues.  I'm guiding at +/- 0.3" Total RMS using APCC Pro modeling and PEC.  My load is pretty light for the mount, with a GTX and full imaging train so maybe I don't notice any of these issues discussed here.  I'm using tiny pixels 3.76um and generally take 10 to 20 minute subs.  My stars are tight and performance is seeing limited as far as I can tell. 

Roland, are you saying that I might notice some limitations with the mount if I wanted to use for example a 12.5" iDK? 

The only thing maintenance-wise that I have had to do is re-mesh my DEC worm.  I suspect that is something I may need to do seasonally as I live in a climate with vast temperature swings through the seasons.  Otherwise it seems like this mount's performance is simply astounding, and I don't know what getting a newer design with encoders would do for me in my final images.  If I do decide to upgrade mounts in the future it would be to acquire a second mount not an "upgrade." 

I do appreciate the history lesson, and it makes total sense why the design has evolved to respond to more demanding usage situations.  And I know you aren't saying that the old mount designs are bad, just that the newer designs are the way they are for the reasons stated.  Thanks again!

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