Date   

Re: Testing SkyTrack continuous tracking with the Mach2 #Mach2GTO

David Johnson
 

Thanks. I will do that. Thanks again for this big upgrade and thanks also to the Astro-Physics team for the APCC upgrades that make it possible. 


loose part 1100GTOAE

legendtrail@...
 

Sometime after 3AM this plastic part moved. What's its function? Where is it supposed to be?
Is there a way to convince it to stay put?


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Roland Christen
 

If I were in your shoes I would spend some time imaging and see what you get. If any gremlins crop up that are repeatable, then you will have a better idea of what is happening and can be more informed about it. Right now all you have are some random events which could be caused by innumerable things that are not related to the mount's tracking ability.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Oct 14, 2021 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

I would be inclined to purchase that Vario finder assuming it would qualify as a solving my guide-scope mounting issues. 

My current guide-scope has two bolts each side of the finder mount, to bolt the mount. Then it just has two plastic thumbscrews which saddle the guide-scope into its dovetail bracket.  I will send a picture.
@Steve,
 The main imaging camera was used for a minimal period last night of about  35 minutes.  But I have posted a lot of data. your question is an important one though. Why would there be DEC jumps using the main imaging camera?  


It is another clear night and I am imaging the Caveman Nebula SHO but I can also do some more testing. 



--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: M31 closeup

thefamily90 Phillips
 

Nice!!


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:37:25 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M31 closeup
 
I did shoot one with my 10" Mak many years ago. Here's the image with inset of the Hubble shot:




-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Oct 14, 2021 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M31 closeup

Major cool Roland.

I bet you could also pick up some of the big M31 Globulars with that scope too.  I've visually seen them as decidedly non-stellar in our 11" F12 achromat.

Give it a go.

Jeff

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:38 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Astronuts,

Just posted my final quickie image taken with the 12" F12.5 Mak-Cass. M31, familiar object, up close and personal.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: M31 closeup

Roland Christen
 

I did shoot one with my 10" Mak many years ago. Here's the image with inset of the Hubble shot:




-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Oct 14, 2021 8:50 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] M31 closeup

Major cool Roland.

I bet you could also pick up some of the big M31 Globulars with that scope too.  I've visually seen them as decidedly non-stellar in our 11" F12 achromat.

Give it a go.

Jeff

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:38 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Astronuts,

Just posted my final quickie image taken with the 12" F12.5 Mak-Cass. M31, familiar object, up close and personal.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

steve.winston@...
 
Edited

Guiding was definitely a lot better than before.   This is using the 115mm, right?

To understand whether your guiding is seeing limited or not, and to help determine what MinMo settings to use, you should look at your overall RMS numbers for RA and DEC.   Ideally you want them to be very close, indicating you are seeing limited.  In your case DEC was at 0.47" and RA was at 0.68".   This would generally indicate that DEC was seeing limited at 0.47" but RA could still do with some improvement

>I think maybe at this juncture the best thing for me would be to learn PemPro and to record a PEC curve

Yep, this is a good next step.  It would be good to see if a good PEC curve helps tighten up RA and bring it closer to DEC.


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

steve.winston@...
 

Just one comment on your GA run: 

You only collected 19 samples - that's not a lot.   You can either reduce the sampling period (say, 2s) or increase the time you let it run.

Basically if you want to use the MinMo recommendations that GA suggests then you have to let GA capture enough samples so that the high frequency star movement RMS numbers "settle" and aren't changing.  Impossible to tell from a screen shot as to whether they had settled or not, but 19 samples doesn't sound like enough.

Also, if you want to get a good measure of your PE, you need to let it run for at least one full work cycle.


Re: Testing SkyTrack continuous tracking with the Mach2 #Mach2GTO

Brent Boshart
 
Edited

Hi Dan,
For optimum satellite tracking the software requires two things; good pointing across the whole sky (esp if you want to do high magnification imaging of ISS) and "real time" mount position coordinates. SkyTrack uses a closed loop for tracking, in one instance it calculates the current position of the satellite, the satellite's current angular velocity and queries where the point is currently pointing. It then uses the movexis command to determine a rate based on the satellite velocity and how much it needs to adjust to center the satellite in the FOV.  The issue with some ASCOM drivers is that they may queue the mount's position, for example only querying its position once every second. For normal use this is quite adequate. For satellite tracking it becomes an issue, for example if the object is moving at 2 degrees/second and I query the mount for its position and the data is one second old, I now have random error of a whole 2 degrees.

You can use Skytrack three ways.

1) Connecting with the latest version of APCC Pro and ASCOM gives the best results.  A model with APCC gives excellent pointing. Ray added some excellent features to APCC Pro that allows for "real time"  (modelled) RA/Dec mount queries. In fact one command returns both values often in less than 15ms.

2) The next best method is connecting directly to the mount via a RS232 port (without ASCOM or APCC) using what I call in the software a legacy interface.  This satisfies the "real time" mount position coordinates, however, pointing is less accurate without a model. 

3) The least desirable method is connecting through the ASCOM driver only. There is not modelled pointing and the AP ASCOM driver queues the mount position every second or so.  It will track, but it is not very smooth and it may be difficult to keep the object in the FOV depending on the size of the FOV.

David,
The T+Epoch parameter is the age in days of the orbital elements in the downloaded TLE file. It is best to download a new file each evening before observing.


Re: Testing SkyTrack continuous tracking with the Mach2 #Mach2GTO

David Johnson
 

Thanks.  Will do.  Can you explain the T+Epoch parameter?  I’ve noticed that’s it’s sometimes red, which I assume is bad. 


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 
Edited

I wanted to update w a screenshot of the current guiding and log


https://openphdguiding.org/logs/dl/PHD2_logs_AsZd.zip


 last night I posted screenshot of 2 min guided exposures. tonight I am imaging @ 5 min bin2 and the star shapes appear the same. Guiding is just kind of fading into the background of everything else. 

Tonight I think the seeing is actually turned out to be fair to good. whether the RA and DEC agg should be lower or higher for tonight's seeing well I am not certain so I am leaving them at the current values.

I think maybe at this juncture the best thing for me would be to learn PemPro and to record a PEC curve.  I know there are other suggestions too. It is all a journey but I think guiding is now at a stable level.  I have not stood by and watched I had walked a way for an hour too so maybe there is a oscillation somewheres. will see, 


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 

 I feel like the cosmos are aligning with me and my mount when I get help like this!

I am running GA again now and it is having me lower my min -mo's and I think the seeing is similar to last night though it could be a bit better.


Re: GoTos

weems@...
 

I agree, but the scope cradles don’t show up very often. The C14 is on an AP 16”saddle, which adds a lot of rigidity to the Losmandy bar. That’s on the AP tandem bar, which is in another 16” saddle that almost spans its length. The C14 substantially out weighs the 6”, so it’s only offset a few inches from the mount center. The 6” is on an ADM TGAD to allow collimating of the two scopes. That’s where I have the most flexing. The C14 doesn’t move to any noticeable degree. 

I’ll see if I can get a picture to post.


Chip


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Peter Nagy
 

Please send us pictures of your guide scope setup. If you don’t,  then we cannot help you resolve your guiding issues.

Have you route the cables through the mount yet? If not, you are missing using one of A-P best features because you will never have to worry about cable drags. Routing cables through the mount is the best feature for me because this helped me to never ever worry about cables getting caught.

Peter


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Worsel
 

Nicholas

My images, while OK, improved noticeably, when I switched to an OAG.  I had tried two others before, but the Astrodon (now Farpoint) Mini MOAG, which includes a helical focuser with a significant range, did the trick.  Not surprisingly, it is more $ than the other 2, but not excessive IMHO in the grand scheme.  I do have to change the guide focus if changing cameras.  That is an infrequent change and easy to accommodate.

Bryan

1100GT
14.5 iDK
co-mounted SV 130


Re: Followup: Re: [ap-gto] Mr. Whang's Mach2 with TOA150

Worsel
 

Roland

Thanks for the history lesson!  It shows clearly the challenges a mount engineer faces and why its no longer just ring gears and worms.

Very clear explanation.

Bryan


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 

Also I might be able to have something custom made so that bracket can attach to my telescope. Isn't there a popular vendor which custom makes spaces, brackets and such?  

Or,

maybe it is time to consider OAG.


But it is time to start learning about learning Pempro. there have got to be some youtube videos etc.


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 

I would be inclined to purchase that Vario finder assuming it would qualify as a solving my guide-scope mounting issues. 

My current guide-scope has two bolts each side of the finder mount, to bolt the mount. Then it just has two plastic thumbscrews which saddle the guide-scope into its dovetail bracket.  I will send a picture.
@Steve,
 The main imaging camera was used for a minimal period last night of about  35 minutes.  But I have posted a lot of data. your question is an important one though. Why would there be DEC jumps using the main imaging camera?  


It is another clear night and I am imaging the Caveman Nebula SHO but I can also do some more testing. 



Re: Testing SkyTrack continuous tracking with the Mach2 #Mach2GTO

Daniel Marcus
 

HI Brent
do we need to use apcc in conjuction with the APV2 ascom driver? or will it work using the APV2 ascom driver alone to get it to track the satellites without using leap frog?- we are using a AP1200 mount. Have a purchased copy but have not had clear skies to use it yet. Tried leap frog but needed to set the parameters larger and use a guide scope to acquire the target -did not help that we were fighting the clouds that night as well. 
Dan Marcus


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brent Boshart <bboshart@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 9:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Testing SkyTrack continuous tracking with the Mach2 #Mach2GTO
 
Hi David,

I noticed in your video that your timing offset is set to 10 seconds. Make sure you set that back to 0 when you get out to try it (provided your computer time is accurate).   Here is a video on using those controls to center the satellite in your view.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HImmMpJk1c

Brent 


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

 

Michael,

 

That is hilarious! Now I want to see you work on Wade’s analogy. :^)

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael Kelly
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 3:16 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

 

Howard, I love that analogy.   And only because I ‘may have’ been dropped on my head as a child…..’ I decided to do a little experiment. 

 

I measured a human hair…yes I actually did. My hair measure 0.0015”. 

I measured my pinky nail. 0.400”

Roughly 266 ‘hairs per nail’

3600/266 yields 13arc seconds per hair. 

 

Here’s my supporting data!

 

 

Inline image

 

Inline image

 

Inline image

 

Ok, I actually was dropped on my head but there is def some perspective!

 

Enjoy at my personal expense. Lol

 

Best,

 

Michael



Sent from Smallbiz Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, October 14, 2021, 4:03 PM, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:

I like to use this one:

Take a dime and hold it out arm's length, noticing its diameter.  Now imagine pushing the dime 2.5 miles away.  The diameter of the dime at that distance is one arc second.

-Wade

On 10/14/21 12:20 PM, Howard Hedlund wrote:

>>> Remember we're talking widths of a human hair scale of movement, very small <<<

 

I always liked this analogy: 

  • Hold your hand out at arm’s length and stretch out your fingers as far as you can.
  • Now look at your pinkie fingernail.
  • That fingernail is roughly one degree wide.
  • Now imagine that cut into 3600 equal parts.  That’s the scale of an arc-second.

 

Mag. 7 or Better Skies!

 

Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

AP Phone: 815-282-1513

Direct Phone:  815-315-7015

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.

 

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Valente
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 14:04
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

 

>>> It is the standard finder bracket included with the Explore Scientific telescope.

 

can you upload a pic?

 

If it's what I think it is, that can be (and often is) a huge source of movement. Remember we're talking widths of a human hair scale of movement, very small

 

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:59 AM nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

thank you I will check I am certain it is not 6 screws. It is the standard finder bracket included with the Explore Scientific telescope.  I have always thought about this setup being subject to movement but I am frequently manually checking  it to feel for movement which I am not able to discern any.  In any case I will follow-up with the images.


 

--

Brian 

 

 

 

Brian Valente

 


Re: Testing SkyTrack continuous tracking with the Mach2 #Mach2GTO

Brent Boshart
 

Hi David,

I noticed in your video that your timing offset is set to 10 seconds. Make sure you set that back to 0 when you get out to try it (provided your computer time is accurate).   Here is a video on using those controls to center the satellite in your view.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HImmMpJk1c

Brent 

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