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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO Roland Christen #82228 Hello Nicholas, The good news is that your mount is working fine. Both the RA periodic error curve and the Dec backlash curve are well within reason for this old mount. I don't see any sign of stiction in Dec, so it will guide quite well in that axis. RA is between 8 and 10 arc seconds, which is slightly out but not enough to cause any guiding problems. So, the mount is healthy and will be able to do imaging with a 6" refractor just fine. Your 6" is not too large for the Mach1. The mount can actually handle somewhat bigger scopes and guide well. I do have some comments about your settings: First, your high frequency star motion (seeing) is very high, you must be either experiencing some air flows from an east wind over the mountains, or your particular location is just not very steady for seeing (2.66 arc sec star motion as reported in your GA is very high). If it really is that high then your setting of Min Move (0.18 for RA and 0.23 for Dec) is totally wrong and it shows in your RA Guider graph when you started guiding. Such a low setting of Min Move will cause oscillation back and forth as the guide software tries to chase the seeing. Your GA run recommended 0.39 for RA and 0.6 for Dec. I would start with those settings, but if the guide graph doesn't settle down I would increase RA to 0.5 or 0.6, same as Dec. There is no reason to try keeping the RA axis to such a low threshold as 0.18 arc seconds. When I am guiding even with my largest and longest scopes I rarely ever set the min Move below 0.3 arc seconds. The other thing I would do is to set the aggressiveness for both axes to 50% when the seeing is not good, and only increase it to 70% under very good seeing conditions. Seeing is NOT transparency! Seeing is high frequency star motion or the back and forth motion that you record in the Dec axis when no guide pulses are being sent. It is imperative that you Do Not set any backlash compensation in your guide software, and that you always use 1x guide rate. Normally I would guide with 2 to 3 second guide exposures. That will help to smooth out the star motion and minimize chasing the seeing. You can guide with the present RA periodic error of 8 to 10 arc seconds since that occurs over a 6.4 minute cycle and is slow enough for your guide software to handle. However, if you ever want to really get your mount tracking well, then you might consider using PEMPro to create a PE curve and feed it to your CP controller. Then turn it on and watch the mount's RA tracking improve dramatically. However, it will only work if you do it right. If you mess up the measurement and don't follow the instructions, you can easily make things worse. It's up to you if you are confident that you can do it right. Even if you mess up, you can always turn the PE correction off. Finally, Some of your previous runs show a very high Dec drift rate which is an indication that your Polar Alignment is quite a ways off. A Dec drift rate of 1 to 2 arc seconds in a 5 minute period would be ideal, in your case it was more than 10 times that amount, and this will limit your ability to get tight guiding and tight sharp stars. You will get all kinds of recommendations but just pick the one that works for you and stick with it. Polar alignment the same way each time will give you consistent results. Good luck and fair skies. Roland Christen Astro-Physics Inc. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Thu, Oct 14, 2021 2:49 am Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO I posted the GA ss above if that is what you mean. there is this which Andrew generated of the test run n I have not gotten to PEC yet. the attached Phd2 ss is from current guide about 25 minutes thereof. -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: GoTos Jodi McCullough <jmccul@...> #82227 When we had this problem, it was one of the handpaddle batteries. Call George at AP and he can send you the right part. If I remember correctly, it was the wired battery. Jodi toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On Oct 13, 2021, at 10:24 AM, Michael Hamburg via groups.io <michael_hamburg44@...> wrote: I truly love my AP900 GTO3 which I bought from the original owner a couple of years ago. However, I cannot get accurate GoTos no matter what I try. I use solely the had controller with the upgraded chip. I have synched, recalibrated, loosened the clutches, issued GoTo commands, and retightened the clutches. I currently carry a Celestron Edge 11 HD with an Orion 80mm ED refractor piggybacked. The mount easily carries this set-up. So - is it 1) user error? 2) cone error (orthogonality?) 3) software bug? or 4) a nasty gremlin? Please help! Michael Hamburg
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Re: Unexpected mount movement Brian Valente #82226 Alex - were you guiding during this period, and if so can you provide the guidelog from that night? I"m wondering if somehow it may have locked on to a different star, or something happened during dithering that caused it to do a major move within the guiding Brian
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Re: GoTos Scott Cooke #82225 Would love to see a picture of the side by side setup. I have thought of doing something similar with my 900. Thanks, Scott toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 1:03 AM <weems@...> wrote: My 900 carries a C14 and 6” f9 side by side and generally gets within 10’ of the target (closer to 7’ when not into refraction near the horizon). And it can slew from one side of the meridian to the other then be told to return to the starting object, and will get it within 1’. The planets are a bit off, probably because of clock drift, as I haven’t set it since the DST change. But It wasn’t close to that until I did a draft alignment for 30 minutes in each axis, and adjusted cone error to less than 1’. It’s on a 12” concrete pier, with a very short rat cage. I replaced the flexible Celestron dovetail with a Losmandy. Every mechanical connection is also really tightened up. Chip
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO Brian Valente #82224 Sorry i'm a bit late to some of these comments >>>>Another very important thing to know about PHD2: If you manually rotate the camera after you calibrate PHD2 you need to calibrate it again. If you have an automated ASCOM rotator hooked up to PHD, I believe it can still use the previous calibration (since it knows about the rotation) but I have never relied on that feature, and I always recalibrate PHD even if it was my NiteCrawler that did the rotation for me. Yes, PHD2 will correct for a rotator provided its connected and configured properly. I use it all the time for remote imaging and it works perfectly. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 9:12 AM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote: The shift key on a desktop keyboard and the shift key on a laptop keyboard will do the same thing. Like Roland, I do a fresh calibration every time I use the mount, even if it has been left outside and nothing has changed at all. I guess I can say I kind of cheat on that, as my automation does the PHD calibration for me every time the Voyager DragScript is run -- but the net effect is the same. I also check and tweak my Polar Alignment each night (before the calibration of course) but that just gives me something to do when I am waiting for the sky to darken up. Another very important thing to know about PHD2: If you manually rotate the camera after you calibrate PHD2 you need to calibrate it again. If you have an automated ASCOM rotator hooked up to PHD, I believe it can still use the previous calibration (since it knows about the rotation) but I have never relied on that feature, and I always recalibrate PHD even if it was my NiteCrawler that did the rotation for me. From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of nicholas via groups.io <chironik=yahoo.com@groups.io> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 7:36 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO I really appreciate the feedback. the entire community is enriched by your participation. That being said I do need to clarify something on this thread. As I have looked back at my guide screen, I was not only checking off " auto-restore." I was also checking "clear mount calibration." In fact I think in my case auto-restore is always checked and before I begin guiding I check "clear mount calibration." I am quite sure I did so the other night. If this is a way to calibrate, and I believe it is, it seems more gratifying because from my perspective I can confirm the operation/command has been initiated. The shift click method, well, I just want to make sure it happens and the intended command is sent to Phd2 . I have noticed with Windows laptops the functions are different from what they are on desktop keyboards. At least for keystrokes involving function keys. Actually I am looking at my laptop, it has no function keys, just a top row of number keys. Likely this has no affect with this shift click operation. But I am looking for the surfeit way to get the command to Phd2. And again I am looking at my guide screen and auto restore calibration is checked off as a sort of default in my settings atleast. -- Brian Brian Valente portfolio brianvalentephotography.com
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Re: ISS Tracked using APCC Pro v1.9 David Johnson #82223 SkyTrack 1.5.1 is now available with continuous tracking for those mounts capable of it. I am trying it out inside with my Mach2, and it seems to work very well. Of course, the real test will be under the stars (and satellites), but I’m not sure when the clouds are going to allow that to happen.
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Re: GoTos Michael Hamburg #82222 I wish it was that simple. Michael Best wishes, Michael toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On Wednesday, October 13, 2021, 04:47:53 PM EDT, J. Belden via groups.io <jjb4469@...> wrote: My main problems with bad gotos with any of my AP mounts has been wrong time, wrong date. DST Non DST as well Joe
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Re: GoTos Michael Hamburg #82221 Fernando, Not only did I loosen the clutches, but I then retightened them. This rig never moves out my observatory! Michael Best wishes, Michael toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On Wednesday, October 13, 2021, 03:01:33 PM EDT, fernandorivera3 via groups.io <fernandorivera3@...> wrote: You have loosened the clutches? Don't you mean "tightened down" the clutches? Try checking your location data in the keypad. Is it accurate or way off like maybe you accidentally left it set on coordinates from a distant star party? What about the clock time? Is it on standard time rather than daylight savings? Maybe it could be incorrect time zone setting. Fernando
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO steve.winston@... #82220 >in case you are wondering the GA was from the main imaging scope but now guiding is being performed w the small guide scope For these tests it really is best to keep everything the same (i.e. don't switch between main and guide scope). After switching back to the guide scope, did you re-do calibration and GA before starting guiding? I don't see any evidence of a loose RA clutches in the data you uploaded, but just to be safe it's probably best to re-capture new data and this time just use your main imaging scope for the test: Calibration, GA and then 20 minutes of guiding through the main scope after applying GA recommendations.
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Re: New JPL Format for Horizons Ephemeris #APCC - Format Causes Issue #APCC Ray Gralak #82219 I can’t tell what you might have done wrong given the screenshots, but there will be an update to APCC available soon that can use the new Horizons website format. -Ray toggle quoted messageShow quoted text From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of dnakic via groups.io Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:11 AM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New JPL Format for Horizons Ephemeris #APCC - Format Causes Issue Ray, I did these steps and for some reason I'm getting the following error and cannot connect system. I followed the steps you provided, with my inputs below. When I selected the text, I'm highlighting all of it (top and bottom portion of text shown). Appreciate you insight (I'm sure there is something that I did incorrectly). Thanks! to
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Re: APCC and SGPro Meridian Limits #APCC #ASCOM_V2_Driver Ray Gralak #82218 Tom, I'm sure it's something I have wrong in the settings and could use some help. The setting you should configure is the Flip Offset, which moves the mount's flip point East of the meridian limit by the number of minutes you set. This gives the imaging application (SGPro) an interval of time during which it can initiate a flip before reaching the limit. Usually you want to set this at least as long as the duration of your images. 2. Regardless of that discrepancy, The mount faults with both RALIMIT, and West Limit errors 10 minutes or so earlier. See the third attached image for the faults. It would probably fix this issue if you configured the mount's home and limits on APCC's Home/Limits tab. -Ray -----Original Message----- From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tom Zepf Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:45 AM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Subject: [ap-gto] APCC and SGPro Meridian Limits #apcc #ascom_v2_driver Hey all, looking for help getting meridian flips to work with APCC, Ascom, and SGPro. There seem to be two problems: 1. APCC limits and SGPro Time to Pier Flip do not seem to agree. APCC seems to think the limit is hit 40 seconds or so before SGPro thinks it's time to flip. See the first attached image showing the difference. 2. Regardless of that discrepancy, The mount faults with both RALIMIT, and West Limit errors 10 minutes or so earlier. See the third attached image for the faults. I'm sure it's something I have wrong in the settings and could use some help. Thanks, Tom
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA #APCC Dale Ghent #82217 Hi Joseph, I've been out in the boonies again for the past week so have been catching up on this thread. It seems you have been having some general issues with APCC that have been sorted out with a settings reset? If you are able to now try the SMF plugin again, make sure of the following: - That your .mlm file from APCC is specified in the plugin's options (Plugins > Installed > Smart Meridian Flip) - That the Smart Meridian Flip trigger is being used in your Advanced sequenced, either in a target-specific Trigger area or in the the Global Trigger area - That you have reviewed the global Meridian Flip settings (Options > Imaging > Meridian flip settings). I have mine as such, if you want a reference: https://i.imgur.com/sCrv1fM.png Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to adjust the post-flip settle time to taste, and turn on Autofocus after flip if you have a telescope that suffers from mirror flop. toggle quoted messageShow quoted text On Oct 13, 2021, at 14:02, Joseph Beyer <jcbeyer2001@...> wrote: I'm hoping for some suggestions to help restore a functional connection between my computer and the mount. After the latest event that started with a meridian flip followed by pointing issues which then caused APCC-Pro to stop responding. I've gone back through all set up instructions for APCC and the V2 driver but was unable to get the mount to connect correctly. The end result was APCC would only open the then stop responding and require closing using task manager. The V2 driver would also open but the mount was unresponsive to both. This morning George was very helpful in troubleshooting the connection problem. He came to the conclusion uninstalling and reinstalling APCC-Pro was likely indicated as it appears something may have been corrupted in the event. I reinstalled APCC and the connection problems were still present. I uninstalled and reinstalled the V2 driver as well, confirmed all ports were configured correctly in both programs but that also made no difference. Currently APCC will open and attempt to connect but the "Connect" window hangs in the middle of the window. Shortly after that Windows pointing icon turns into a rotating circle and APCC becomes unresponsive. I'm stumped at this point.
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Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. thefamily90 Phillips #82216 I still have my setup with AP 600 and Nikon 500 lens. JimP Get Outlook for iOS toggle quoted messageShow quoted text From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 11:45:46 PM To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. Lookie, their first setup used our old 600 mount: -----Original Message----- From: michael mccann via groups.io <mmccawsprojects@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 7:51 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. Better results if same sky conditions. https://www.dragonflytelescope.org/ Cheers -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. thefamily90 Phillips #82215 Me as well!! JimP Get Outlook for iOS toggle quoted messageShow quoted text From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of James Stone <jrs7r@...> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:58:43 AM To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>; p14@... <p14@...> Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. For what it’s worth, I’ve seen some pretty impressive imaging recently coming from an RH305 / IMX455 chip combo. Seems like that is a well-matched configuration. Looking forward to seeing future images from the RH305’s Hawaii travels. From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011@...> Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 11:36 PM To: James Stone <jrs7r@...>, "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>, "p14@..." <p14@...> Cc: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. Don't know yest. Most probably a full frame 35mm CMOS at some point. Rolando -----Original Message----- From: James Stone <jrs7r@...> To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>; p14@... <p14@...> Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. Can’t wait to see the images. What do you plan on using for an imaging train? From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011@...> Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 7:35 PM To: "p14@..." <p14@...>, "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Cc: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. We have excellent transparency at our observatory and the sky is really dark. The seeing (star scintillation) is not always good, but the Honders is a medium focal length scope (1160mm) so it is ideal for semi-wide field objects. I intend to go extremely deep with it and will be using the fast optics to gather detail in very faint structures. Rolando -----Original Message----- From: Pete Lardizabal <p14@...> To: main@ap-ug.groups.io Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. WOW!!! Should be the proper setting for the scope! Looking forward to Pacific based Honders images. 😎 Pete On Oct 13, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote: ... where it will gather photons and help to test software and hardware for AP. It has been cloudy here all month with no end in sight, so it is being shipped off to sunnier and warmer climes. My beautiful model is there for perspective to show just how big it is: 1600 mount with 120lb of counterweight and 305mm F3.8 Honders astrograph. Solid as a rock on its ATS pier. Hope to get some images in the coming week. Rolando
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APCC and SGPro Meridian Flip Issues #apcc #ascom_v2_driver #APCC #ASCOM_V2_Driver Tom Zepf #82214 Hi folks, I seem to be having issues with getting SGPro and APCC setup for successful meridian flips. In all cases, the mount stops tracking before the meridian limit is reached. There seem to be two issues: The time for SGPro to flip and the time for APCC limit reached seem to be off by 40 seconds or so in the wrong direction. See image #1 for the discrepancy. Regardless of #1 above, the mount faults an RA LIMIT about 9 minutes earlier than that. Any help is much appreciated! Tom
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Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. James Stone #82213 For what it’s worth, I’ve seen some pretty impressive imaging recently coming from an RH305 / IMX455 chip combo. Seems like that is a well-matched configuration. Looking forward to seeing future images from the RH305’s Hawaii travels. From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011@...> Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 11:36 PM To: James Stone <jrs7r@...>, "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>, "p14@..." <p14@...> Cc: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. Don't know yest. Most probably a full frame 35mm CMOS at some point. Rolando toggle quoted messageShow quoted text -----Original Message----- From: James Stone <jrs7r@...> To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>; p14@... <p14@...> Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. Can’t wait to see the images. What do you plan on using for an imaging train? From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011@...> Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 at 7:35 PM To: "p14@..." <p14@...>, "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io> Cc: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. We have excellent transparency at our observatory and the sky is really dark. The seeing (star scintillation) is not always good, but the Honders is a medium focal length scope (1160mm) so it is ideal for semi-wide field objects. I intend to go extremely deep with it and will be using the fast optics to gather detail in very faint structures. Rolando -----Original Message----- From: Pete Lardizabal <p14@...> To: main@ap-ug.groups.io Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 6:29 pm Subject: Re: [ap-ug] The Beast is heading to Hawaii.. WOW!!! Should be the proper setting for the scope! Looking forward to Pacific based Honders images. 😎 Pete On Oct 13, 2021, at 3:22 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote: ... where it will gather photons and help to test software and hardware for AP. It has been cloudy here all month with no end in sight, so it is being shipped off to sunnier and warmer climes. My beautiful model is there for perspective to show just how big it is: 1600 mount with 120lb of counterweight and 305mm F3.8 Honders astrograph. Solid as a rock on its ATS pier. Hope to get some images in the coming week. Rolando
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Re: New JPL Format for Horizons Ephemeris #APCC - Format Causes Issue #APCC dnakic@... #82211 Ray, I did these steps and for some reason I'm getting the following error and cannot connect system. I followed the steps you provided, with my inputs below. When I selected the text, I'm highlighting all of it (top and bottom portion of text shown). Appreciate you insight (I'm sure there is something that I did incorrectly). Thanks! to
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO nicholas #82210 so this is a development. Darn. I am taking things down and just discovered that after balancing I did not tighten up the RA clutches tonight at all. arggh. not sure how i missed that one. I feel it my obligation to share that because that would affect results I imagine. still the guided results seemed at least fair.
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO nicholas #82209 Edited a 2 min guided exposure, 152mm F8 w . 7 reducer.
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO nicholas #82208 in case you are wondering the GA was from the main imaging scope but now guiding is being performed w the small guidescope.
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