Date   

Re: GoTos

Christopher Erickson
 

To me, some of the possibilities are:

1. Orthogonality/Cone-error.
2. Corrupted hand controller.
3. Misconfigured hand controller.
4. OTA/attachment mech problem.
5. Motor optical encoder problem.
6. Usage procedure problem.
7. Polar alignment problem.
8. Debris between 2 halves of mount.
9. Tripod/pier flexure/looseness.
10. Soft ground.
11. Astro-gremlins.

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 5:56 AM Scott Cooke <TSCOOKE64@...> wrote:
Exactly. Unless you already did, it would be worth replacing the keypad battery and updating the DB of objects. 

Scott Cooke



On Oct 13, 2021, at 10:37 AM, M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...> wrote:

Is the object database in your keypad corrupted ? You might want to cross check the coordinates that you get from the keypad with the published coordinates.

Mike


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Bill Long
 

The shift key on a desktop keyboard and the shift key on a laptop keyboard will do the same thing.

Like Roland, I do a fresh calibration every time I use the mount, even if it has been left outside and nothing has changed at all. I guess I can say I kind of cheat on that, as my automation does the PHD calibration for me every time the Voyager DragScript is run -- but the net effect is the same. I also check and tweak my Polar Alignment each night (before the calibration of course) but that just gives me something to do when I am waiting for the sky to darken up. 

Another very important thing to know about PHD2:  If you manually rotate the camera after you calibrate PHD2 you need to calibrate it again. If you have an automated ASCOM rotator hooked up to PHD, I believe it can still use the previous calibration (since it knows about the rotation) but I have never relied on that feature, and I always recalibrate PHD even if it was my NiteCrawler that did the rotation for me.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 7:36 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
 
I really appreciate the feedback. the entire community is enriched by your participation. 

That being said I do need to clarify something on this thread. As I have looked back at my guide screen, I was not only checking off " auto-restore."   I was  also  checking  "clear mount calibration."  In fact I think in my case auto-restore is always checked and before I begin guiding I check "clear mount calibration." I am quite sure I did so the other night. If this is  a way to calibrate, and I believe  it is, it seems more gratifying because from my perspective I can confirm the operation/command has been initiated. The shift click method, well, I just want to make sure it happens and the intended command is sent to Phd2 .  I have noticed with Windows laptops the functions are different from what they are on desktop keyboards. At least for keystrokes involving function keys.  Actually I am looking at my laptop, it has no function keys, just a top row of number keys. Likely this  has no affect with this shift click operation. But I am looking for the surfeit way to get the command to Phd2. And again I  am looking at my guide screen and auto restore calibration is checked off as a sort of default in my settings atleast. 


Re: GoTos

Howard Hedlund
 

Keypad database corruption is generally catastrophic in terms of GoTos.  Database corruption sends you to the complete wrong place - not just *off-by-a-bit*.  And that's if you can slew to catalog objects at all.  

The number one reason by a HUGE margin for poor pointing is poor polar alignment.


Re: GoTos

Michael Hamburg
 

Thanks for the suggestions. I replaced the battery soon after I got the mount. The comparing the coordinates sounds like a good first step. How complicated is it to replace the database if necessary?
Michael


Best wishes, Michael


On Wednesday, October 13, 2021, 11:56:19 AM EDT, Scott Cooke <tscooke64@...> wrote:


Exactly. Unless you already did, it would be worth replacing the keypad battery and updating the DB of objects. 

Scott Cooke



On Oct 13, 2021, at 10:37 AM, M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...> wrote:

Is the object database in your keypad corrupted ? You might want to cross check the coordinates that you get from the keypad with the published coordinates.

Mike


Re: GoTos

Scott Cooke
 

Exactly. Unless you already did, it would be worth replacing the keypad battery and updating the DB of objects. 

Scott Cooke



On Oct 13, 2021, at 10:37 AM, M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...> wrote:

Is the object database in your keypad corrupted ? You might want to cross check the coordinates that you get from the keypad with the published coordinates.

Mike


Re: GoTos

Roland Christen
 

Could be anything, depends also on how far you are off. Without more specifics, we are shooting in the wind.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Hamburg via groups.io <michael_hamburg44@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 9:16 am
Subject: [ap-gto] GoTos

I truly love my AP900 GTO3 which I bought from the original owner a couple of years ago. However, I cannot get accurate GoTos no matter what I try. I use solely the had controller with the upgraded chip. I have synched, recalibrated, loosened  the clutches, issued GoTo commands, and retightened the clutches. I currently carry a Celestron Edge 11 HD with an Orion 80mm ED refractor piggybacked. The mount easily carries this set-up. So - is it 1) user error? 2) cone error (orthogonality?) 3) software bug? or 4) a nasty gremlin? Please help!

Michael HamburgEmoji

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: GoTos

M Hambrick
 

Is the object database in your keypad corrupted ? You might want to cross check the coordinates that you get from the keypad with the published coordinates.

Mike


GoTos

Michael Hamburg
 

I truly love my AP900 GTO3 which I bought from the original owner a couple of years ago. However, I cannot get accurate GoTos no matter what I try. I use solely the had controller with the upgraded chip. I have synched, recalibrated, loosened  the clutches, issued GoTo commands, and retightened the clutches. I currently carry a Celestron Edge 11 HD with an Orion 80mm ED refractor piggybacked. The mount easily carries this set-up. So - is it 1) user error? 2) cone error (orthogonality?) 3) software bug? or 4) a nasty gremlin? Please help!

Michael HamburgEmoji


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Andrea Lucchetti
 

May be if you overlap the frames you can understand if the star position after the event is restored in alignment with the previous frames or remains shifted. If it is recovered it is a transient effect. What do you think?

On Wed, 13 Oct 2021 at 02:33, Alex <groups@...> wrote:
I actually thought some sort of critter (bird, bat, whatever) might have been the issue, but the security camera showed squat.  

Alex


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 

 yes that is what in fact I am seeing. 


Mr. Whang's Mach2 with TOA150

Roland Christen
 

Hi All,

For those of you on CN, you may have seen this entry by Mr. Whang:
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/767964-lets-torture-the-mach-2/page-6#entry11425336

He has a 150TOA with fairly heavy camera and feels that the mount is not stable, even though the package weighs just 55lb. I believe that the weight may not take into consideration the added weight of the dovetail assembly. The tube weight itself is listed at 44lb and if you add the camera and field flattener optics plus the refractor on top, plus the dovetail system, the total weight on the Dec axis is probably more like 60+ lb. The moment arm is pretty large for this combo, so we had to change the damping quite a bit.

Yes, it will feel somewhat boingy when pushed or disturbed, but I have put my own large refractors on the Mach2 and as long as you don't disturb it, the guiding is rock solid down in the 0.2 arc sec when the seeing is good. Right now I have a 12" Mak-Cass on the mount and the Mach2 handles it just fine and guides very well. Wind or no wind. I think Mr. Whang feels that it won't guide with some wind, but remember, the heavier the scope the more it will resist moving (force against mass - mass always wins). I had a 160 EDF refractor with my 10" Mak sitting on top, total weight far in excess of 80lb and yet it guided splendidly even with a good breeze blowing. The scope really didn't move unless I pushed on the end and then of course it bounced around a bit, just like the video that Mr. Whang posted.

Sometimes our feelings about something don't translate into actuality. If I had that 150 TOA setup, I would go ahead and take some actual images and see what the results are.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

steve.winston@...
 

When you do Shift + Guide you will see PHD2 enter calibration mode and perform a calibration.   There really is no confusion on whether it is doing a calibration or not.

Try it and confirm for yourself!


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Roland Christen
 

I'm not an expert on PHD2, but for every new setup i do a new calibration. I do this for any imaging run because I'm always switching scopes and cameras and never have them perfectly lined up from the last session. So I start fresh and watch the guide graph for 5 minutes before starting any exposures.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 9:36 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

I really appreciate the feedback. the entire community is enriched by your participation. 

That being said I do need to clarify something on this thread. As I have looked back at my guide screen, I was not only checking off " auto-restore."   I was  also  checking  "clear mount calibration."  In fact I think in my case auto-restore is always checked and before I begin guiding I check "clear mount calibration." I am quite sure I did so the other night. If this is  a way to calibrate, and I believe  it is, it seems more gratifying because from my perspective I can confirm the operation/command has been initiated. The shift click method, well, I just want to make sure it happens and the intended command is sent to Phd2 .  I have noticed with Windows laptops the functions are different from what they are on desktop keyboards. At least for keystrokes involving function keys.  Actually I am looking at my laptop, it has no function keys, just a top row of number keys. Likely this  has no affect with this shift click operation. But I am looking for the surfeit way to get the command to Phd2. And again I  am looking at my guide screen and auto restore calibration is checked off as a sort of default in my settings atleast. 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 

I really appreciate the feedback. the entire community is enriched by your participation. 

That being said I do need to clarify something on this thread. As I have looked back at my guide screen, I was not only checking off " auto-restore."   I was  also  checking  "clear mount calibration."  In fact I think in my case auto-restore is always checked and before I begin guiding I check "clear mount calibration." I am quite sure I did so the other night. If this is  a way to calibrate, and I believe  it is, it seems more gratifying because from my perspective I can confirm the operation/command has been initiated. The shift click method, well, I just want to make sure it happens and the intended command is sent to Phd2 .  I have noticed with Windows laptops the functions are different from what they are on desktop keyboards. At least for keystrokes involving function keys.  Actually I am looking at my laptop, it has no function keys, just a top row of number keys. Likely this  has no affect with this shift click operation. But I am looking for the surfeit way to get the command to Phd2. And again I  am looking at my guide screen and auto restore calibration is checked off as a sort of default in my settings atleast. 


Re: Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders #Guiding

Andrew J
 

FYI. Bruce Waddington just did a presentation on TAIC on PHD2's Guiding Assistance.

https://youtu.be/LbhxX7PH2CE


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

I actually thought some sort of critter (bird, bat, whatever) might have been the issue, but the security camera showed squat.  

Alex


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Roland Christen
 

Actually it's not that bad at all. Your initial results were quite good, you got round stars with your 6" refractor. You just have to remember to calibrate before you start imaging - if your setup is new each time. Polar alignment is nice to nail exactly but certainly not necessary. I rarely ever push it to below about 3 or 4 arc minutes. Just not worth the time if you are guiding anyways.

If Dec backlash comes out to 15 arc sec or less, you're fine also. No need to try adjusting and tightening the mesh. As far as RA mesh adjustment in your heading - RA mesh has no real effect on guiding. There is no RA backlash because the mount is always moving forward at 1x sidereal rate. Guiding in RA simply slows down and speeds up the tracking rate, it never reverses, so there is no backlash effect.

Speaking of 1x sidereal, all guiding should always be done at 1x guide rate. Never less than 1x and never more than 1x. There is a myth that guiding at a reduced rate will somehow produce better guiding - that is total hogwash. Reduced rates will make Dec guiding worse, not better. And that applies to every mount out there, not just ours.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing the unguided tracking graph results. I'll then know better if anything needs to be adjusted on the mount. I have some prelim results from Andrew down in Oz that indicates the mount is just fine, but I want to make sure.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

no the weather was crapped out but tonight should be game.   I realize which is obvious from my experiences how how I am on the dummy  side of  push here dummy --Phd.


I think it is time for me to do the painful thing of reading the 74 page Phd2 manual because I think it is an apparent myth that I bought into early on that being a push here dummy  was adequate. It really is not. 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Unexpected mount movement

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

So don't laugh too hard but…

 

Could a bird have landed on the OTA then took off?  While that's a big motion tracking wise, it is not really a big movement.  Whether that shifted it on the clutch or something on that OTA…

 

It looks like a one-time, sudden impulse.  A cable dragging would, I think, have occurred slower (and left more of a star trail).

 


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Roland Christen
 

Balance isn't that important on the 1100 as long as the clutches are fully tight. You might want to check that all your bits and pieces of the dovetail system are fully tight.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex <groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

I guess it would have to be a clutch slip, if the mount's encoders don't show the movement.  I'll check the balance again.  I know it's not a cable tug or the like as I viewed the security camera footage of the scope at the time interval in question, and the cables are shown free and unencumbered. 

I currently switch between using the QuadTCC and the field flattener on the scope.  The reducer is mostly in the focuser while the flattener protrudes from the end of the focuser, so the balance point shifts when swapping.  Being a lazy guy, I've balanced in Dec somewhere between the two, so my Dec isn't perfectly in balance.  I've been doing that for while now and haven't noticed any adverse effects.  Is that a bad assumption?  Will swapping between the two affect my APCC model?  If it's a problem, i could see about perhaps adding a small counterweight to the front when swapping to keep it all in balance w/out having to move the scope in the dovetail.  What's the best practice when changing flatteners/reducers as far as balance and models is concerned?

Alex

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

I guess it would have to be a clutch slip, if the mount's encoders don't show the movement.  I'll check the balance again.  I know it's not a cable tug or the like as I viewed the security camera footage of the scope at the time interval in question, and the cables are shown free and unencumbered. 

I currently switch between using the QuadTCC and the field flattener on the scope.  The reducer is mostly in the focuser while the flattener protrudes from the end of the focuser, so the balance point shifts when swapping.  Being a lazy guy, I've balanced in Dec somewhere between the two, so my Dec isn't perfectly in balance.  I've been doing that for while now and haven't noticed any adverse effects.  Is that a bad assumption?  Will swapping between the two affect my APCC model?  If it's a problem, i could see about perhaps adding a small counterweight to the front when swapping to keep it all in balance w/out having to move the scope in the dovetail.  What's the best practice when changing flatteners/reducers as far as balance and models is concerned?

Alex

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