Date   

Re: Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

I actually thought some sort of critter (bird, bat, whatever) might have been the issue, but the security camera showed squat.  

Alex


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

Roland Christen
 

Actually it's not that bad at all. Your initial results were quite good, you got round stars with your 6" refractor. You just have to remember to calibrate before you start imaging - if your setup is new each time. Polar alignment is nice to nail exactly but certainly not necessary. I rarely ever push it to below about 3 or 4 arc minutes. Just not worth the time if you are guiding anyways.

If Dec backlash comes out to 15 arc sec or less, you're fine also. No need to try adjusting and tightening the mesh. As far as RA mesh adjustment in your heading - RA mesh has no real effect on guiding. There is no RA backlash because the mount is always moving forward at 1x sidereal rate. Guiding in RA simply slows down and speeds up the tracking rate, it never reverses, so there is no backlash effect.

Speaking of 1x sidereal, all guiding should always be done at 1x guide rate. Never less than 1x and never more than 1x. There is a myth that guiding at a reduced rate will somehow produce better guiding - that is total hogwash. Reduced rates will make Dec guiding worse, not better. And that applies to every mount out there, not just ours.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing the unguided tracking graph results. I'll then know better if anything needs to be adjusted on the mount. I have some prelim results from Andrew down in Oz that indicates the mount is just fine, but I want to make sure.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

no the weather was crapped out but tonight should be game.   I realize which is obvious from my experiences how how I am on the dummy  side of  push here dummy --Phd.


I think it is time for me to do the painful thing of reading the 74 page Phd2 manual because I think it is an apparent myth that I bought into early on that being a push here dummy  was adequate. It really is not. 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Unexpected mount movement

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

So don't laugh too hard but…

 

Could a bird have landed on the OTA then took off?  While that's a big motion tracking wise, it is not really a big movement.  Whether that shifted it on the clutch or something on that OTA…

 

It looks like a one-time, sudden impulse.  A cable dragging would, I think, have occurred slower (and left more of a star trail).

 


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Roland Christen
 

Balance isn't that important on the 1100 as long as the clutches are fully tight. You might want to check that all your bits and pieces of the dovetail system are fully tight.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex <groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

I guess it would have to be a clutch slip, if the mount's encoders don't show the movement.  I'll check the balance again.  I know it's not a cable tug or the like as I viewed the security camera footage of the scope at the time interval in question, and the cables are shown free and unencumbered. 

I currently switch between using the QuadTCC and the field flattener on the scope.  The reducer is mostly in the focuser while the flattener protrudes from the end of the focuser, so the balance point shifts when swapping.  Being a lazy guy, I've balanced in Dec somewhere between the two, so my Dec isn't perfectly in balance.  I've been doing that for while now and haven't noticed any adverse effects.  Is that a bad assumption?  Will swapping between the two affect my APCC model?  If it's a problem, i could see about perhaps adding a small counterweight to the front when swapping to keep it all in balance w/out having to move the scope in the dovetail.  What's the best practice when changing flatteners/reducers as far as balance and models is concerned?

Alex

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

I guess it would have to be a clutch slip, if the mount's encoders don't show the movement.  I'll check the balance again.  I know it's not a cable tug or the like as I viewed the security camera footage of the scope at the time interval in question, and the cables are shown free and unencumbered. 

I currently switch between using the QuadTCC and the field flattener on the scope.  The reducer is mostly in the focuser while the flattener protrudes from the end of the focuser, so the balance point shifts when swapping.  Being a lazy guy, I've balanced in Dec somewhere between the two, so my Dec isn't perfectly in balance.  I've been doing that for while now and haven't noticed any adverse effects.  Is that a bad assumption?  Will swapping between the two affect my APCC model?  If it's a problem, i could see about perhaps adding a small counterweight to the front when swapping to keep it all in balance w/out having to move the scope in the dovetail.  What's the best practice when changing flatteners/reducers as far as balance and models is concerned?

Alex


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

nicholas
 

no the weather was crapped out but tonight should be game.   I realize which is obvious from my experiences how how I am on the dummy  side of  push here dummy --Phd.


I think it is time for me to do the painful thing of reading the 74 page Phd2 manual because I think it is an apparent myth that I bought into early on that being a push here dummy  was adequate. It really is not. 


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Ray Gralak
 

The only software that I was using that talks to the mount is SGP. I checked its logs, and there's nothing
logged during the exposure at all. Plus SGP's dither is on the order of a few pixels, not a hundred.
There were no commands to move the mount issued during the time interval you specified. Even if a command external to APCC were issued, it would have shown up in changed RA/Dec coordinates. The logical conclusion is that something external caused the move.

Given your equipment, a likely reason would be a clutch slip. The slip could have occurred because the clutch is not tight enough to overcome an imbalanced OTA or a cable tugging on the OTA.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 4:01 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

The only software that I was using that talks to the mount is SGP. I checked its logs, and there's nothing
logged during the exposure at all. Plus SGP's dither is on the order of a few pixels, not a hundred.

Alex


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

The only software that I was using that talks to the mount is SGP.  I checked its logs, and there's nothing logged during the exposure at all.  Plus SGP's dither is on the order of a few pixels, not a hundred.

Alex


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Alex,

According to your log, during the interval you said the shift happened, there was only 0.4 src-seconds of movement in Dec and 0.04 sec (.6 arc-sec) movement of RA.

Dec coordinates:
0797942 2021-10-12 05:04:30.730: Debug, Command Thread, TX='#:GD#'|RX='-02*22:55.9#'
0807658 2021-10-12 05:06:51.730: Debug, Command Thread, TX='#:GD#'|RX='-02*22:55.5#'

RA coordinates
0797940 2021-10-12 05:04:30.698: Debug, Command Thread, TX='#:GR#'|RX='05:41:52.93#'
0807656 2021-10-12 05:06:51.698: Debug, Command Thread, TX='#:GR#'|RX='05:41:52.97

So, whatever caused the double image was not caused by the mount or APCC. Are you sure the scope was well-balanced, and the mount clutches were tight?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 3:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

The scope jogged north in the DEC direction about 110 pixels, or about 2.4' at my image scale. I'm using a
130GTX with a QuadTCC and QHY268M camera and everything is using screwed connections and seems
tight. I've never seen this kind of movement in my images before that didn't involve bumping the pier, but it
was still 20 minutes from the meridian and the images after this look fine. I'm not sure what in the optical train
would suddenly shift. I reviewed the security camera footage in the observatory and I did see any external
movement on the scope like cables shifting or anything.

I didn't see anything obvious in the APCC log, but most of what's in there is greek to me.

Alex


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Roland Christen
 

Any other software attached that could have given a command to move. Something that perhaps issued a dither command? Maybe Ray can take a look at your APCC log.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex <groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 5:21 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

The scope jogged north in the DEC direction about 110 pixels, or about 2.4' at my image scale.  I'm using a 130GTX with a QuadTCC and QHY268M camera and everything is using screwed connections and seems tight.  I've never seen this kind of movement in my images before that didn't involve bumping the pier, but it was still 20 minutes from the meridian and the images after this look fine.  I'm not sure what in the optical train would suddenly shift.  I reviewed the security camera footage in the observatory and I did see any external movement on the scope like cables shifting or anything.

I didn't see anything obvious in the APCC log, but most of what's in there is greek to me.

Alex

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

The scope jogged north in the DEC direction about 110 pixels, or about 2.4' at my image scale.  I'm using a 130GTX with a QuadTCC and QHY268M camera and everything is using screwed connections and seems tight.  I've never seen this kind of movement in my images before that didn't involve bumping the pier, but it was still 20 minutes from the meridian and the images after this look fine.  I'm not sure what in the optical train would suddenly shift.  I reviewed the security camera footage in the observatory and I did see any external movement on the scope like cables shifting or anything.

I didn't see anything obvious in the APCC log, but most of what's in there is greek to me.

Alex


Re: aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

Robert Berta
 

Nice photo of Northern Lights. Here in Michigan we do get some nice Aurora photos also. With the increase in solar activity I have been enjoying doing day time Ha imaging....best of it is....no mosquitoes!  This was taken through my 80mm refractor using a Day Star Quark Ha Chromosphere version. The capture was with Sharp Cap for 2000 frames which were than aligned and combined in Auto Stakkert and than output into PS for tweaking and colorizing. Camera is a Player Once Neptune mono camera. While I have a AP 900 and 1100 mount, the exposures are so short that you don't need more than a simple tracking unguided mount. In this case it was an Ioptron Mini Tower Pro (ALT/AZ). I am primarily a night time astrophotographer but here in Michigan we have a lot more clear sunny days than good clear nights ;-(  It also gives me more hours in the day to image.




Re: Unexpected mount movement

Roland Christen
 

Maybe the scope jogged a bit, or the camera assembly? Sudden shift of camera or optics or mirror shifting sideways will do this. Check all your mechanical connections. Did you check the APCC logs to see if anything is amiss? If it did not issue a move command then it may not be a mount movement since APCC keeps track of the mount position at all times.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex <groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 2:08 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

I had a strange hiccup in one of my subs last night and was wondering if anyone has a suggestion of what may have happened.  I was imaging the horse head nebula, and during one of the subs, it looks like the mount jogged a bit.  The mount is an 1100 with absolute encoders and I’m using a pointing model with APCC pro 1.9.11.  I’m not guiding.



This movement was about 2.4’ in dec.  Judging by the equal brightness of the double stars, it appears this happened right in the middle of the 2 minute sub.  Looking at the SGP logs doesn’t show anything amiss.  The sub immediately before and after look fine other than the later subs are shifted.  This happens around 20 minutes before the meridian flip, which occurred normally.

Here is the APCC log file.  The exposure happened from 5:04:40 to 5:06:40, so I'd imagine the jog happened around 5:05:40 or so.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0zFY_hvutFstb4z8F1XYlgm0w#APCC-2021-10-12-015143

And here's the offending sub.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0KLHzvpcidYyds0Ueh3g-rnrA#horsehead_120sec_1x1_-5C_gain_0_L_frame11





--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Unexpected mount movement

Roland Christen
 

RA is which way? Left to right perhaps?

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex <groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 2:08 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Unexpected mount movement

I had a strange hiccup in one of my subs last night and was wondering if anyone has a suggestion of what may have happened.  I was imaging the horse head nebula, and during one of the subs, it looks like the mount jogged a bit.  The mount is an 1100 with absolute encoders and I’m using a pointing model with APCC pro 1.9.11.  I’m not guiding.



This movement was about 2.4’ in dec.  Judging by the equal brightness of the double stars, it appears this happened right in the middle of the 2 minute sub.  Looking at the SGP logs doesn’t show anything amiss.  The sub immediately before and after look fine other than the later subs are shifted.  This happens around 20 minutes before the meridian flip, which occurred normally.

Here is the APCC log file.  The exposure happened from 5:04:40 to 5:06:40, so I'd imagine the jog happened around 5:05:40 or so.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0zFY_hvutFstb4z8F1XYlgm0w#APCC-2021-10-12-015143

And here's the offending sub.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0KLHzvpcidYyds0Ueh3g-rnrA#horsehead_120sec_1x1_-5C_gain_0_L_frame11





--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

Luca Marinelli
 

That’s so cool! Seeing an aurora light show is on my bucket list.

 

Thanks for sharing, Eric!

 

Luca

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Weiner via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 2:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

 

Taken with just a cell phone, but thought I’d share. I’m currently doing some work on the Long Range Discriminating Radar (LRDR) up on Clear Space Force Station in Alaska. The weather cooperated last night to allow what the locals are calling one of the best aurora borealis light shows they’ve seen in years. The activity averaged around 5-6, and spiked to 9 at times. It was really spectacular. The photo with the bright lights at the bottom is the aurora over the LRDR facility. Those metal structures are 120’ tall. 

Enjoy,
Eric


Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO

steve.winston@...
 

>Yeah that sounds like the method to use and likely would have worked last time had I calibrated correctly rather than using the calibration restore function.

Correct.

So were you able to gather data last night?


Unexpected mount movement

Alex
 

I had a strange hiccup in one of my subs last night and was wondering if anyone has a suggestion of what may have happened.  I was imaging the horse head nebula, and during one of the subs, it looks like the mount jogged a bit.  The mount is an 1100 with absolute encoders and I’m using a pointing model with APCC pro 1.9.11.  I’m not guiding.



This movement was about 2.4’ in dec.  Judging by the equal brightness of the double stars, it appears this happened right in the middle of the 2 minute sub.  Looking at the SGP logs doesn’t show anything amiss.  The sub immediately before and after look fine other than the later subs are shifted.  This happens around 20 minutes before the meridian flip, which occurred normally.

Here is the APCC log file.  The exposure happened from 5:04:40 to 5:06:40, so I'd imagine the jog happened around 5:05:40 or so.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0zFY_hvutFstb4z8F1XYlgm0w#APCC-2021-10-12-015143

And here's the offending sub.

https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/0KLHzvpcidYyds0Ueh3g-rnrA#horsehead_120sec_1x1_-5C_gain_0_L_frame11





Re: aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

thefamily90 Phillips
 

Amazing 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 2:18:31 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] aurora borealis over Clear Alaska
 
hey, very cool! Glad to see some solar activity again. Haven't seen the sun in a long long time (in a scope of course).

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Weiner <weinere@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 1:04 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

Taken with just a cell phone, but thought I’d share. I’m currently doing some work on the Long Range Discriminating Radar (LRDR) up on Clear Space Force Station in Alaska. The weather cooperated last night to allow what the locals are calling one of the best aurora borealis light shows they’ve seen in years. The activity averaged around 5-6, and spiked to 9 at times. It was really spectacular. The photo with the bright lights at the bottom is the aurora over the LRDR facility. Those metal structures are 120’ tall. 
Enjoy,
Eric


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

Roland Christen
 

hey, very cool! Glad to see some solar activity again. Haven't seen the sun in a long long time (in a scope of course).

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Weiner <weinere@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Oct 12, 2021 1:04 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

Taken with just a cell phone, but thought I’d share. I’m currently doing some work on the Long Range Discriminating Radar (LRDR) up on Clear Space Force Station in Alaska. The weather cooperated last night to allow what the locals are calling one of the best aurora borealis light shows they’ve seen in years. The activity averaged around 5-6, and spiked to 9 at times. It was really spectacular. The photo with the bright lights at the bottom is the aurora over the LRDR facility. Those metal structures are 120’ tall. 
Enjoy,
Eric


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


aurora borealis over Clear Alaska

Eric Weiner
 

Taken with just a cell phone, but thought I’d share. I’m currently doing some work on the Long Range Discriminating Radar (LRDR) up on Clear Space Force Station in Alaska. The weather cooperated last night to allow what the locals are calling one of the best aurora borealis light shows they’ve seen in years. The activity averaged around 5-6, and spiked to 9 at times. It was really spectacular. The photo with the bright lights at the bottom is the aurora over the LRDR facility. Those metal structures are 120’ tall. 

Enjoy,
Eric

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