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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Roland Christen
That one is no better. Unfortunately it is cross contaminated. The RA should show the PE and the Dec should show only drift with no PE. It appears that the calibration is off by 45 degrees.
It may not even be calibrated at the celestial equator, so it's not going to be accurate for RA.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:36 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO I found an earlier run that looks better:
  The previous run was unguided data
There were significant number of failed calibration attempts
Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
steve.winston@...
Yep, it looks like the guide cam was rotated since the previous calibration run and prior to running the second GA session you posted the screencap of.
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
it's possible though this run reported no prior calibration issues - the calibration data prior to this wasn't in this guidelog. It looks like maybe the guidescope slipped and/or was rotated when the calibrations are successful they look spot on, but many are 
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:40 PM <steve.winston@...> wrote: Brian, unfortunately that run was also likely bad (using bad calibration data from a previous calibration run) --
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
steve.winston@...
Brian, unfortunately that run was also likely bad (using bad calibration data from a previous calibration run)
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Joseph Beyer
Thanks Ray. I definitely get the point for needing additional sample points on the west side. I'll give it another run and see how it goes.
Joe
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
I found an earlier run that looks better - and by "better" i mean relatively better than previous. At least this one kind of makes some sense:
  The previous run was unguided data
There were significant number of failed calibration attempts
Not sure what's going on with the previous graph and so many difficulties with calibration. It may be that you have a cable or connection loose somewhere
On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 1:30 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
--
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Roland Christen
I'm afraid that is useless data.
Guide graphs ideally should be taken thru the main scope on ONE reasonably bright star at or near the celestial equator, at or near the meridian (either side will do). One star, not multi-star tracking!
What he captured here appears to be a mix of hot pixel tracking along with some periods of actual multi-star tracking.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 3:14 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time
-- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Here's the picture from those logs - unguided output with 2 second exposures, approx 20 minutes total time 
--
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Roland Christen
Guide logs are great for Geeks that like to wade thru long log files. I'm not one of them.
In order to evaluate the health of your mount I would like to see the following done as I asked before: a simple guide graph screen shot.
1) Take a 15 - 20 minute guide graph with guide exposure set to 1 second on a reasonably right star (forget multi-star guiding, it's not important for this mount health test)
2) for the entirety of the test have guide corrections turned OFF
Easiest way to turn off guide corrections is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. Another way is to go into your guide setup and uncheck the guide corrections box for RA and Dec.
The screen shot should show both the drift of both axes as well as the shape of the RA periodic error for the entire 15 - 20 minute period. It will be a clean image of only the mount with none of the interference of any outside software.
Once I get that screen shot from you I can evaluate the state of the mount, whether the bearings are smooth or not and lots of other things that may or may not need some care or adjustment. Until i see that, we cannot do much here but watch and wait. I have only a few more days here at AP, after which I will be gone on an extended trip and won't be able to advise you until I get back the first week of November.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: nicholas via groups.io <chironik@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:24 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO Hello Mr. Christen.
Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be. I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment. Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having skewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541. Thank you! https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Andrew J
Hi Joe.
I also gave N.I.N.A a go this weekend. I didn't have meridian flip issues, but I did have problems getting my dome and safety monitors working. After it shut down everything the second time because a cloud went over I quit and went back to SGP. I haven't been able to determine how to build a sequence with auto-recovery. I think N.I.N.A is good sotware with a LOT of potential, but stilll a little rough around the edges as one would expect as version 1.11 is still in development. I love that I can use the Ground Station plugin with MQTT to publish the state of each piece of equipment. I use it with home assistant to keep tabs on everything. MQTT opens up a whole new world as now I can control non-ASCOM switches and other things in my observatory using MQTT and Home Assistant. That said, for N.I.N.A to be come my primary imaging software I would need the ability to easily Pause sequences, Replay parts of sequence, and it desperately needs a "debugger" that would allow me to place break points and step through the sequence one step and exit a sequence if I discover a problem. I also need to figure out to auto-recover a sequence so I don't loose an entire nights imaging if a few clouds blows over and sets off my safety monitor. Andrew
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Re: Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders
#Guiding
Roland Christen
I still don't see a screen shot of the RA and Dec unguided tracking graph, so I really cannot explain to you how the results of that graph will show you what is happening. It is the key to setting the Min Move for any given night, which is really the most important setting. You want to set MinMove such that the guider loop does not chase random sky motion due to seeing. The numbers below give a clue but they cannot get you to understand the why. That is what I wanted to be able to convey to you and others who may be watching this newsgroup.
Please post a short 2 - 3 minute guide graph taken with 1 second guide exposures and corrections turned off. The easiest way to turn corrections off is to set MinMove to 20.0 for both axes. No need to do a GA or other fancy tests.
Why is it that people don't want to do this simple test? It's not hard and takes literally just minutes, but reveals everything you need to know. And i will explain it all in an annotated visual once I get your graph.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew J <andjones132@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 2:11 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders #Guiding Hi Brian.
This is really helpful!! You are right, as a software developer I keep thinking this is just an equation that needs to be solved and all I need is the right inputs. No doubt there is some "artistry" involved. That said, I do want to at least understand what the 'theoretical" settings should be and use those as my starting point. I think in large part I am just getting hung up on the terminology. If I look at this output from PHD2 Guiding Assistant, are you saying that my P-P Arc Seconds is the Declination, Peak of 0.73 px (1.44 arc sec)? If yes, how does this help me determine what MinMo I should use as a starting point? I took this screen shot before I hit the finish button, but it came back and recomended a RA MinMo = 0.20 and a DEC MinMo = 0.30.  As mentioned in a previous post, I did another imaging run on Saturday night and all I changed was the aggression on both axis to 0.63 or RA and 0.72 for DEC and my graph fattened out quite a bit. I was able to achive an RMS of 0.23 on one point during the night. I think by relaxing the Aggression it alllowed the encoders to "do their work". I have been imaging from a permant setup for about 6 years now (previously with a Mach1) and guiding has always been my achillies heel. I get it close enough to get round stars, but have to admit I really don't understand it. Now that I have a mount that can track extreamly accurately, I want to make sure I am using it to its full potential. FYI. In case it helps. In addition to the 1100GTO mount, I am also using a Tele-Vue NP101is. I bought this scope specifically for the 1100's "shack down cruise". I wanted a short scope to give me plenty of room for error around the Pier until I get APCC, SGP, etc. fine tuned. My primay scope is a TEC 140, but I am not putting on until I get everything working together and able I am able to have several all night imaging runs without issue. For guiding, I am use the Baader Vario Finder 10x60 along with AP's bracket to help reduce flexure. Primary camera is an ATIK 16200 and guide cam is a ZWO ASI178MM. Andrew -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Ray Gralak
Joe,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I think you want to leave meridian limits enabled, but only enable West counterweight-up slews. Dale may need to confirm that. I mentioned in an earlier post that high West-side pointing terms are likely caused by there not any data points at widely separated declinations. The Eastside doesn't usually have this problem because the first point at the zenith can provide one widely separated dec sample. -Ray
-----Original Message-----
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Re: RA Mesh adjustment for 2104 model Mach 1 GTO
Hello Mr. Christen.
Firstly I want to express my sincere gratitude for offering to evaluate my Phd2 log data in light of how busy you must already be. I am not convinced that any issues are not operational efficiency, for example, I likely could improve on my guide-scope/ guide cam structure to make it more solid. On the saddle was a 152mm F8 refractor triplet with a few LBS of imaging related equipment. Attached is Phd2 log from last night. @ 23:48 I began a recalibration, then I proceeded with the guide assist on after having slewed from the handbox from Park 3 to NGC 7541. Thank you! https://openphdguidi...2_logs_Yrrd.zip
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Joseph Beyer
Got it.
Are there any particular parameters in the Meridian tab I should be cautious about? I've always kept the "Counterweight Up Slews within:" East and West limits boxes checked. When sitting nearby the mount in the past I've started imaging east of the meridian counterweights up and image through the meridian without a flip. Since starting to use NINA I've unchecked the boxes assuming NINA would flip at the correct time. I've had it work fine at least once. When I tried to add in the smart flip which included the use of meridian limits I mapped for my equipment that's when things went bad initially, although that may be a red herring. It may all come back to the pointing model values and the pointing model use which I need to disable each time. Any thoughts on why my equipment is creating such high values beyond the need for a denser model? Pointing and tracking are likely different animals but unguided imaging on the west side seems to be as accurate as the east. Joe
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Re: Fine tuning PHD2 settings for 1100 with Encoders
#Guiding
Andrew J
Hi Brian.
This is really helpful!! You are right, as a software developer I keep thinking this is just an equation that needs to be solved and all I need is the right inputs. No doubt there is some "artistry" involved. That said, I do want to at least understand what the 'theoretical" settings should be and use those as my starting point. I think in large part I am just getting hung up on the terminology. If I look at this output from PHD2 Guiding Assistant, are you saying that my P-P Arc Seconds is the Declination, Peak of 0.73 px (1.44 arc sec)? If yes, how does this help me determine what MinMo I should use as a starting point? I took this screen shot before I hit the finish button, but it came back and recomended a RA MinMo = 0.20 and a DEC MinMo = 0.30.  As mentioned in a previous post, I did another imaging run on Saturday night and all I changed was the aggression on both axis to 0.63 or RA and 0.72 for DEC and my graph fattened out quite a bit. I was able to achive an RMS of 0.23 on one point during the night. I think by relaxing the Aggression it alllowed the encoders to "do their work". I have been imaging from a permant setup for about 6 years now (previously with a Mach1) and guiding has always been my achillies heel. I get it close enough to get round stars, but have to admit I really don't understand it. Now that I have a mount that can track extreamly accurately, I want to make sure I am using it to its full potential. FYI. In case it helps. In addition to the 1100GTO mount, I am also using a Tele-Vue NP101is. I bought this scope specifically for the 1100's "shack down cruise". I wanted a short scope to give me plenty of room for error around the Pier until I get APCC, SGP, etc. fine tuned. My primay scope is a TEC 140, but I am not putting on until I get everything working together and able I am able to have several all night imaging runs without issue. For guiding, I am use the Baader Vario Finder 10x60 along with AP's bracket to help reduce flexure. Primary camera is an ATIK 16200 and guide cam is a ZWO ASI178MM. Andrew
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Re: APPM and ASTAP
#APCC
Ray Gralak
Bill,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
There was talk about this last week on this forum, so you may want to look back on those posts. The short answer is that APPM uses ASTAP's "automatic mode" for calculating the view/image scale field during a regular APPM run with the expectation that ASTAP will accurately calculate image scale. However, ASTAP's automatic mode is not very automatic. So, you may have to configure the ASTAP's settings in APPM to get ASTAP to solve images. I am working on a fix to get around ASTAP's unexpected behavior, but it is not ready. In the longer term, I am considering porting just ASTAP's plate solving logic to C#/.NET so that I can make plate solving work in a way that is most efficient for future APPM features. -Ray
-----Original Message-----
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Ray Gralak
Joe,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
At the end of an APPM run, APPM will automatically enable pointing and tracking rate correction when it loads the new data into APCC, so you will need to turn it off afterward. -Ray
-----Original Message-----
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Re: Smart Meridian Flip with NINA
#APCC
Joseph Beyer
OK, thanks. I've actually starting making Dec models with three rows of points but I had this one already made so I used it. Ironically I looked at it just before starting the mapping and debated whether to update it with another row. Go figure.
I thought I had disabled the pointing model when I unchecked the "Enable Pointing Correction" box in the "Pointing Model" tab of APCC. The program still shows it as unchecked as it was before I started the run. Is there somewhere else I need to disable the feature? Joe
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APPM and ASTAP
#APCC
Bill Conrad
I have APCC 1.9.0.11 and latest ASTAP. When I try to run a pointing model the ASTAP solve always fails. If I leave the scope at the run target location and press the Plate Solve button, the solve is always successful in a few seconds. What am I missing?
Bill Conrad
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Re: Mach2 with TEC180 for visual
Roland Christen
It will bounce around when you bump it lightly. I would recommend a 1600 mount if you want stability at high powers. I have my 175 on a 1600 mount and it's just about perfect for that scope.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io Sent: Mon, Oct 11, 2021 1:05 pm Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 with TEC180 for visual Roland,
Yes i know the 180 has a huge moment arm. When you say boingy is it during slews (which I can reduce) or in general due to the long moment arm? Shailesh -- Roland Christen Astro-Physics
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