Date   

Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Bill Long
 

The FSQ106 has an 88mm imaging circle.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 2:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Is this tilt in the image train?
 
Is the FSQ even capable of supporting a true full frame 35mm like the 6200?

I would be surprised if the image circle was that good. 

When we went to stellarvue for the SVX80T and the 6200, they had to hand-pick the telescope and flattener, and even then it's very very sensitive to any tilts or backfocus distances

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:57 PM Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@...> wrote:
The camera is a full frame ASI6200.
As to going back to Takahashi, that's always a pain from up here in Canada.  From what I have heard it could be a few weeks or months if it has to go to Japan.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

 

Is the FSQ even capable of supporting a true full frame 35mm like the 6200?

I would be surprised if the image circle was that good. 

When we went to stellarvue for the SVX80T and the 6200, they had to hand-pick the telescope and flattener, and even then it's very very sensitive to any tilts or backfocus distances

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:57 PM Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@...> wrote:
The camera is a full frame ASI6200.
As to going back to Takahashi, that's always a pain from up here in Canada.  From what I have heard it could be a few weeks or months if it has to go to Japan.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Tom Blahovici
 

Hi
Sounds like a plan. Did you remove the nightcrawler and put back the stock focuser when you shipped it to tak?
I would hope they don't rely on a take focuser that could be out of alignment also.
Tom


Re: Off Topic-NUC Computer

mikela
 
Edited

I do solar imaging and recently decided on an i5 (NUC8i5BEK)  which is the shorter version of Linwood's model.  At the moment, I am having self inflicted port issues.  I inadvertently converted ports 3 and 4 into virtual ports and seemingly cannot undo it.  I run Windows 10 Pro with APCC, NINA, Stellarium, FocusLynx Commander, Spike-a Flat USB Dimmer, FireCapture and Sun Scintillation Monitor.  Prior to my port issue, this system was performing plate solving a slight bit faster than the same setup on a Dell i7 XPS-15 laptop.  At idle, it is using around 5W.  I have also read that most 8th generation and above hardware will likely be OK for Windows 11.


Re: SH2-171 on Mach2 and new Moravian c3 61000 Pro (Sony IMX 455)

Luca Marinelli
 

Beautiful image, Andrea! Congratulations on the new camera.

 

Luca

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andrea Lucchetti via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 4:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] SH2-171 on Mach2 and new Moravian c3 61000 Pro (Sony IMX 455)

 

Eric, 
I used to own their G16803 for about 7 years so I think I know very well Moravian.
the C3 camera I have now has an exetrnal filter wheel , 5 position 50x50mm.
I decided to stick to my moravian filter set from the previous camera and opted for that FW.
if you will decide, I suggest to consider a smaller set but 7 positions: i think my wheel (medium size) can get 7 2 inches round filters.
This camera is a monster with narrow band, and you could like to have O3 and ha.
The camera is very well built, usb 3, fast download time (2x2 is less than one second).
It is not like the FLI proline, but it is about 2.8kg with filter wheel.
don't expect any of the low cost cameras issues: cooling issues, tilting, etc.
they work as advertised

The software package is maintained and sees several updates during the year to support new cameras or features.
They have native drivers for skyx, driver for linux, indi,ascom.
At present they don't have a native driver for NINA ( I requested this) but the Ascom one works just fine.
For people living in Europe support is also very easy, no need for complex custom declarations when you send the camera for maintenance or repair.
Support is great: during the years they helped me to update the electronics till that was possible.

Please let me know if you need specific info and I'll try to answer

Andrea





I have no interest in Moravian but I like their work


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Luca Marinelli
 

Tom,

 

While most likely there are optical aberrations contribute to what you are seeing, there is a simple test that you can run to see how much tilt is affecting your image. Run a set of exposures from outside of focus to inside of focus. With the Nitecrawler on this OTA and camera, I would recommend starting about 1,000 steps outside of focus and moving in 250 steps at a time. If there is tilt in your system, there has to be a line with stars in focus that moves through your images with each frame. This will allow you to look at the shape of stars inside and outside of focus both on and off axis. If there are aberrations (coma, astigmatism, and curvature are prime culprits) due to misalignment of the four lenses, it will be very obvious.

 

I just went through this with the same OTA and camera this past Spring. I had been using my OTA with smaller sensors (ASI1600, Atik 383L+) and then a bigger sensor but with large pixels (FLI ML16200), which gave good results without any obvious star shape problems. When I put the ASI6200MM on the OTA in the Winter it was a mess. Using the Sidewinder I was able to get it to be somewhat acceptable but definitely not great. I sent the OTA to Houston in May and received it back in late August. It’s very much improved and after some minor adjustment for sensor tilt is now giving a tight star field all over the field of view.

 

Luca

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Blahovici via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 3:58 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Is this tilt in the image train?

 

The camera is a full frame ASI6200.
As to going back to Takahashi, that's always a pain from up here in Canada.  From what I have heard it could be a few weeks or months if it has to go to Japan.


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Eric Weiner
 

Have you tried reinstalling the OEM focuser and giving it a quick test? Have you performed any collimation tests?

Eric


Re: SH2-171 on Mach2 and new Moravian c3 61000 Pro (Sony IMX 455)

Eric Weiner
 

Andrea,

Thank you for the thoughtful response. Receiving such positive feedback from a long time user is very helpful. I use 2” mounted Chroma filters myself, so I understand your suggestion regarding FW sizing. I’m currently running HaRGB, but Oiii and Sii are on my long purchase list.

I do have a few questions when you have time:

Did you purchase your Moravian equipment direct from the factory or are you fortunate enough to have a distributor nearby?

Do you have any experience with their OAG or Ethernet adapter? Although, I don’t see much use for the later.

You mentioned the cooling was effective, but not impressive. Do you have the standard or enhanced cooling model?

I live in the USA, so I am a little apprehensive about a European camera because of the potential for customer support difficulties, but we don’t have any good enthusiast level North American camera options at the moment anyhow. As everyone knows, the Chinese camera manufacturers’ customer and software/driver support is atrocious. At least from North America it is. I’m sure dealing with the folks in the Czech Republic would be much easier.

Thanks again for taking the time to send this information. I will gladly contact you if I think of any more questions.

Regards,
Eric


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Bill Long
 

I highly doubt it's the focuser. I hang an 11lb camera system off the back of the NC with no flex, sag, etc. The ASI camera package with wheel and OAG weigh less than the filter wheel I have in use.

I suspect the telescope. I have owned an FSQ in the past and had to send it in for collimation as well. Mine did not have to go to Japan, but others in the same boat had to. 




From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@...>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 1:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Is this tilt in the image train?
 
Hi
The image may be somewhat misleading.  The horizontal zoom, results in an image of 85" wide.  So it is extremely zoomed in. CCD inspector shows a tilt of 3-4 arc seconds.
Interestingly, I look through lots of past images and the tilt seems to change depending on where in the sky I am pointing.
Sound like flex, however I have gone through 3 image trains.  All do the same. It's as if something is lose in a cell somewhere in the telescope. 
Currently I am using a Moonlight nightcrawler with all screw in adapters.


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Tom Blahovici
 

Hi
The image may be somewhat misleading.  The horizontal zoom, results in an image of 85" wide.  So it is extremely zoomed in. CCD inspector shows a tilt of 3-4 arc seconds.
Interestingly, I look through lots of past images and the tilt seems to change depending on where in the sky I am pointing.
Sound like flex, however I have gone through 3 image trains.  All do the same. It's as if something is lose in a cell somewhere in the telescope. 
Currently I am using a Moonlight nightcrawler with all screw in adapters.


Re: Reflection in image

Martin Magnan
 

Hello

"t-thread extensions  + t-thread to 2 inch adapter + 2 inch extensions + CCDT67"

I once had a very similar setup and the internal reflection was caused by a "shiny" adapter. The problem was solved by flocking the inside of the adapter with black hockey tape.

Martin


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Bill Long
 

You can certainly check to make sure everything is rigid and square on the system. Some of the ASI 6200 cameras are known to have tilted sensors, but nothing like it would need to be to cause that level of problems.

What do you see on out of focus stars?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@...>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 12:57 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Is this tilt in the image train?
 
The camera is a full frame ASI6200.
As to going back to Takahashi, that's always a pain from up here in Canada.  From what I have heard it could be a few weeks or months if it has to go to Japan.


Re: SH2-171 on Mach2 and new Moravian c3 61000 Pro (Sony IMX 455)

Andrea Lucchetti
 
Edited

Eric, 
I used to own their G16803 for about 7 years so I think I know very well Moravian.
the C3 camera I have now has an exetrnal filter wheel , 5 position 50x50mm.
I decided to stick to my moravian filter set from the previous camera and opted for that FW.
if you will decide, I suggest to consider a smaller set but 7 positions: i think my wheel (medium size) can get 7 2 inches round filters.
This camera is a monster with narrow band, and you could like to have O3 and ha.
The camera is very well built, usb 3, fast download time (2x2 is less than one second).
It is not like the FLI proline, but it is about 2.8kg with filter wheel.
don't expect any of the low cost cameras issues: cooling issues, tilting, etc.
they work as advertised

The software package is maintained and sees several updates during the year to support new cameras or features.
They have native drivers for skyx, driver for linux, indi,ascom.
At present they don't have a native driver for NINA ( I requested this) but the Ascom one works just fine.
For people living in Europe support is also very easy, no need for complex custom declarations when you send the camera for maintenance or repair.
Support is great: during the years they helped me to update the electronics till that was possible.

Please let me know if you need specific info and I'll try to answer

Andrea







Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Tom Blahovici
 

The camera is a full frame ASI6200.
As to going back to Takahashi, that's always a pain from up here in Canada.  From what I have heard it could be a few weeks or months if it has to go to Japan.


Re: Some APCC mis-information on Cloudy Nights

Andrew J
 

Hi Karen.


Great news that Tech Videos are in the works. A little birdy told me that Liam was working on a Video demonstrating the steps to re-grease a mount. I have been eagerly awaiting the Premier as I have a Mach1 that is need of a tune up after sitting out in the Texas heat for 5 years in my backyard observatory. 

One thought about video production, maybe the guys at 
The Astro Imaging Channel would be willing to help? TAIC is always looking for presenters, so maybe they could trade some production experience in exchange for AP doing the Premier on TAIC, with a Q&A session after each video. I think it would be very popular for the many current and future AP mount owners out there. If you are really courageous you could clean and regrease a mount LIVE!!!

 

Andrew J


Re: Is this tilt in the image train?

Bill Long
 

If no reducer is being used, that's a scope that needs to go back to Takahashi for collimation adjustments IMO.  While they're could be some tilt, it would need to be insanely large to cause that much error in the field.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@...>
Sent: Monday, September 27, 2021 12:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Is this tilt in the image train?
 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi
Now that I have my new AP1100, I am seeing the starts in their true shapes.  Gone are the guiding issues and so on with the new APPM models.
So, this is the first image taken as a test unguided at 5 minutes.  I took the same image with the autoguider running and it made no corrections.

Does this looks like tilt?  In your experience is it? CCDInspector shows a tilt in the direction from lower left to upper right.
It appears to come from before the focuser since the image changes with a 180 degree shift in the camera rotation.

I have tilt adapters both before the focuser (Moonlight nightcrawler) and after.
The telescope is that notorious FSQ106, the telescope plagued with this type of issue.



Thanks, Tom


Re: Reflection in image

Robert Chozick <rchozick@...>
 

I just reread the other mail that he sent. I thought he meant extend the secondary out but now I understand extend the secondary baffle. 

Robert 


On Sep 27, 2021, at 2:34 PM, Robert Chozick via groups.io <rchozick@...> wrote:

Thanks Roland. Someone had already suggested to me that it could be a need for extension of the secondary by about half an inch. I have used the scope many times and this is the first time this is happened. I think there was a bright star nearby. The iris is close to one of the main stars in Cepheus.   

Robert 


On Sep 27, 2021, at 1:14 PM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:


you might try extending the baffle a few inches (or experiment) and see if you can eliminate it?

I had a similar issue on my cdk20. After I isolated the cause using paper baffle extensions, my solution was to 3d print a baffle extension and attach it 

Problem gone. 

Brian


On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:55 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
Robert,

I have been fighting the same thing on my 12"GSO RC for years.   I have a truss system.   If you find a remedy, please let me know.  Recently I placed protostar flock on the tube portion of the scope to make it even darker, but I doubt it will help.  It seems to happen when my scope is pointed between 10 degrees and 30 or so degrees, and is less frequent when I am pointed more towards the zenith.  I think it also happens when there is a bright star nearby.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Reflection in image

 

Please keep us posted Emilio

I have 2 GSO RCs, they are mostly sitting in the corner, but I may be inspired to re-energize them!

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:31 PM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
Maybe this will put an end to the GSO discussions.   I did some searching.  Teleskop Service sells a baffle addition for the stock baffle sold on GSO RCs which were shown to have light leaks around the secondary baffle and produce similar artifacts to what I experienced and what Robert is experiencing.  It is called a light shade baffle and they make them for several size scopes.  Apparently the issue was detected back in 2017 by a gentleman named Knute H. Shaffner and in collaboration with Teleskop Service TS started making the baffles.  I am ordering one for my 12" GSO and I suppose I could experiment an extension to the baffle, but that would take some time and time is money and is better spent under clear skies.

Thanks Rolando for the diagnosis and the rest of the gang for chiming in.  I hope this cures the very annoying artifact I have lived with for a while.  I admit, I do like my poor man's RC.  Hopefully I will like it even more for now and until I can upgrade.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Reflection in image

Robert Chozick <rchozick@...>
 

Thanks Roland. Someone had already suggested to me that it could be a need for extension of the secondary by about half an inch. I have used the scope many times and this is the first time this is happened. I think there was a bright star nearby. The iris is close to one of the main stars in Cepheus.   

Robert 


On Sep 27, 2021, at 1:14 PM, Brian Valente <bvalente@...> wrote:


you might try extending the baffle a few inches (or experiment) and see if you can eliminate it?

I had a similar issue on my cdk20. After I isolated the cause using paper baffle extensions, my solution was to 3d print a baffle extension and attach it 

Problem gone. 

Brian


On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:55 AM Emilio J. Robau, P.E. <ejr@...> wrote:
Robert,

I have been fighting the same thing on my 12"GSO RC for years.   I have a truss system.   If you find a remedy, please let me know.  Recently I placed protostar flock on the tube portion of the scope to make it even darker, but I doubt it will help.  It seems to happen when my scope is pointed between 10 degrees and 30 or so degrees, and is less frequent when I am pointed more towards the zenith.  I think it also happens when there is a bright star nearby.



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Reflection in image

Emilio J. Robau, P.E.
 

Maybe this will put an end to the GSO discussions.   I did some searching.  Teleskop Service sells a baffle addition for the stock baffle sold on GSO RCs which were shown to have light leaks around the secondary baffle and produce similar artifacts to what I experienced and what Robert is experiencing.  It is called a light shade baffle and they make them for several size scopes.  Apparently the issue was detected back in 2017 by a gentleman named Knute H. Shaffner and in collaboration with Teleskop Service TS started making the baffles.  I am ordering one for my 12" GSO and I suppose I could experiment an extension to the baffle, but that would take some time and time is money and is better spent under clear skies.

Thanks Rolando for the diagnosis and the rest of the gang for chiming in.  I hope this cures the very annoying artifact I have lived with for a while.  I admit, I do like my poor man's RC.  Hopefully I will like it even more for now and until I can upgrade.

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