Date   

Re: Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

fernandorivera3
 

I have bought different AP dovetail saddle receiver plates over the years. Never had this kind of problem with any of them including the discontinued models 🤔

Fernando


Re: IC1396 Narrowband Ha

Eric Weiner
 

Fantastic detail, as usual.

Eric


Re: Carrying case for Mach2

Greg McCall
 

I wrap the mount in a big beach towel and secure the towel with a couple of short cargo straps wrapped around the mount as it takes up less space in the back of the car. I pick it up at a couple of points by grabbing the straps. 


Re: Periodic error and Dec-Arc tracking.

Roland Christen
 

If you don't use PEC then the stars will wander back and forth by the amount of the PE error. So you will get an oval star image in the RA direction.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Smith <ghsmith45@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2021 6:40 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Periodic error and Dec-Arc tracking.

When using Dec-Arc tracking for unguided imaging I presume that using PEC is absolutely necessary and that using the mount's native periodic error (ie no PEC) won't give decent results.
Just wondering.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] IC1396 Narrowband Ha

Pete Lardizabal
 

Amazing!

😎

Pete

On Sep 16, 2021, at 6:39 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


I managed to get 6 x 20 minute H-a exposures with the 10" Mak Astrograph on the fully loaded-for-bear Mach2 mount. All exposures were unguided and stacked in MaximDL. Processed in Maxim DL and Photoshop.

https://www.astrobin.com/g0bpv3/

It's a beginning, and I hope to add more exposures as well as more OIII and SII subs for a final color image. These are very faint and have a fair amount of noise that will present quite a challenge. I'm not ready to show it to the world at full resolution (image is reduced to 80%), so this is a preview only.

Rolando


Periodic error and Dec-Arc tracking.

Geoff Smith
 

When using Dec-Arc tracking for unguided imaging I presume that using PEC is absolutely necessary and that using the mount's native periodic error (ie no PEC) won't give decent results.
Just wondering.


Re: Carrying case for Mach2

Shailesh Trivedi
 

Thank you Ernie, can you post a picture?

Shailesh


Re: APPM - error

Ron Kramer
 

SEtup but still light out.  I clicked this test button.  I loaded a APPM pic from last night and it loaded and solved under 3 seconds.

All I changed was bin from 1 to 2.  I'll try live tonight and update with my results. 


Re: Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

Harley Davidson
 

Linwood

I agree, I've never thought there to be an issue and do like you do it.

tony

On 9/16/2021 2:50 PM, ap@... wrote:

From Bill Long:

 

  • I am having a hard time determining what the problem is exactly. 

 

 

I grab them with my finger as I loosen and push to the left, and repeat until the clamp clears the area.  Needing to push them by hand is a very, very minor nuisance.  Not worth fixing for that.

 

I didn’t even think to ask about them, I just assumed it was as designed.  I mean, I came from a MyT where you cannot drop in a dovetail, period – you have to slide them in from the end.  So I was absolutely delighted I could drop it in at all.

 

But being able to open the clamps up and have them stay open would be very nice.

 

Linwood

 



IC1396 Narrowband Ha

Roland Christen
 

I managed to get 6 x 20 minute H-a exposures with the 10" Mak Astrograph on the fully loaded-for-bear Mach2 mount. All exposures were unguided and stacked in MaximDL. Processed in Maxim DL and Photoshop.

https://www.astrobin.com/g0bpv3/

It's a beginning, and I hope to add more exposures as well as more OIII and SII subs for a final color image. These are very faint and have a fair amount of noise that will present quite a challenge. I'm not ready to show it to the world at full resolution (image is reduced to 80%), so this is a preview only.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Carrying case for Mach2

ernie.mastroianni@...
 

Take a look at the Seahorse 920 case specifications.  Fits my Mach2 perfectly, without taking off my short AP saddle. about $150 shipped.
https://www.casesbymasco.com/product-130020/920-Protective-Case.html

 


Re: APPM - error

Ron Kramer
 

I'll try again tonight. 


Re: APPM - error

Ron Kramer
 

ASTAP is the best and fastest. NINA with ASTAP solves always in under 3 seconds ALWAYS.  Same install which never errors with NINA.  Hoping after spending another 106.00 I can get APPM working finally.  It did say it works with NINA and ASTAP? 


Re: Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

Woody Schlom
 

I wonder if over time, some of the springs are compressing and not fully extending?  As if the metal wasn't tempered correctly. Perhaps an entire batch wasn't tempered correctly.  So those of us who got "good" springs don't have this problem at all. But others got all "bad" springs,  or even a mix of good and bad springs.

New they all worked. But years later,  some of the springs are getting tired?  

Woody 

On September 16, 2021 12:13:25 PM "Bill Long" <bill@...> wrote:

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I use this saddle and have never run into this problem myself, but I could see how this would be impactful to someone. Good to see there is a solution in store.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of ap@... <ap@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:50 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?
 

From Bill Long:

 

  • I am having a hard time determining what the problem is exactly. 

 

I can explain from my perspective.  Picture the saddle in Park 3, so facing north and level side to side, empty, and the knobs mostly all the way in (just for this example).

 

I want to install my C11.  I loosen the knobs to make room.  As I continue loosening them, before the clamps clear the dovetail area, the spring runs out and they just sit there as I loosen more and more, still blocking the area.

 

I grab them with my finger as I loosen and push to the left, and repeat until the clamp clears the area.  Needing to push them by hand is a very, very minor nuisance.  Not worth fixing for that.

 

Now I go pick up the OTA and go to lower it into the saddle.  If I hit it square, great.  If it drags slightly on the left side because it’s heavy and it’s dark and I’m clumsy, the clamp flops back over into the dovetail area and you can’t sit the dovetail into the saddle.  Now (holding the large OTA with two hands) I reach with my third hand and shift the clamp back out of the way.   Except, well, for the lack of a third hand, so I have to set the OTA down on the grass, reset the clamps, pick it up and repeat.  This is the somewhat more serious nuisance, still fairly minor .

 

I didn’t even think to ask about them, I just assumed it was as designed.  I mean, I came from a MyT where you cannot drop in a dovetail, period – you have to slide them in from the end.  So I was absolutely delighted I could drop it in at all.

 

But being able to open the clamps up and have them stay open would be very nice.

 

Linwood

 



Re: Erratic behavior, possibly contact related

Roland Christen
 


Does the fact that the motors continued to be powered despite the stop operation point to another possible fault?
Stop is a software command, so it requires a working servo system. Once the encoder connection fails, the servo loop is broken and no software commands will do anything. In later versions of the servo software there is a motor fail limit which will stop power to the motors after approx 2 seconds. You may have an older version of the software in your CP3.

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: M. Collins <aegle_observatory@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Sep 16, 2021 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Erratic behavior, possibly contact related

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 09:43 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
You probably had corrosion on the pins of the Y cable and possibly on the motor box as well.
  This seems to be the most plausible explanation. It's odd that everything worked during bench testing and the first night at the site, then the problem surfaced and persisted after cycling the connectors, replacing the mount controller, etc., and finally went away without any actions which involved the Y cable connections. But I've seen enough strange failure modes involving old equipment and poor contacts to know that almost anything is possible.

  Are there any common connections through the Y cable, e.g., a signal ground pin which is connected to both motor assemblies? Poor contact at one pin which can affect both motor drives would fully explain the symptoms observed last week. (The mount is at one of our remote sites, so I can't readily pull the cable to see how it's wired.)
Runaways occur when the encoder signals don't reach the servo controller, so the controller thinks that the motor is not turning and supplies more and more voltage and current to turn the motor shaft. Of course, the motor shaft is turning, but without the encoder feedback, the controller runs open loop.
  A question about this. On more than one occasion when one or both axes were running away, pressing the stop button on the hand controller had no effect and it was only possible to stop the motors by pulling the power connection. Does the fact that the motors continued to be powered despite the stop operation point to another possible fault?

  Thanks for the details regarding the servo loops and hand controller interface.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

Bill Long
 

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I use this saddle and have never run into this problem myself, but I could see how this would be impactful to someone. Good to see there is a solution in store.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of ap@... <ap@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:50 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?
 

From Bill Long:

 

  • I am having a hard time determining what the problem is exactly. 

 

I can explain from my perspective.  Picture the saddle in Park 3, so facing north and level side to side, empty, and the knobs mostly all the way in (just for this example).

 

I want to install my C11.  I loosen the knobs to make room.  As I continue loosening them, before the clamps clear the dovetail area, the spring runs out and they just sit there as I loosen more and more, still blocking the area.

 

I grab them with my finger as I loosen and push to the left, and repeat until the clamp clears the area.  Needing to push them by hand is a very, very minor nuisance.  Not worth fixing for that.

 

Now I go pick up the OTA and go to lower it into the saddle.  If I hit it square, great.  If it drags slightly on the left side because it’s heavy and it’s dark and I’m clumsy, the clamp flops back over into the dovetail area and you can’t sit the dovetail into the saddle.  Now (holding the large OTA with two hands) I reach with my third hand and shift the clamp back out of the way.   Except, well, for the lack of a third hand, so I have to set the OTA down on the grass, reset the clamps, pick it up and repeat.  This is the somewhat more serious nuisance, still fairly minor .

 

I didn’t even think to ask about them, I just assumed it was as designed.  I mean, I came from a MyT where you cannot drop in a dovetail, period – you have to slide them in from the end.  So I was absolutely delighted I could drop it in at all.

 

But being able to open the clamps up and have them stay open would be very nice.

 

Linwood

 


Re: Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

From Bill Long:

 

  • I am having a hard time determining what the problem is exactly. 

 

I can explain from my perspective.  Picture the saddle in Park 3, so facing north and level side to side, empty, and the knobs mostly all the way in (just for this example).

 

I want to install my C11.  I loosen the knobs to make room.  As I continue loosening them, before the clamps clear the dovetail area, the spring runs out and they just sit there as I loosen more and more, still blocking the area.

 

I grab them with my finger as I loosen and push to the left, and repeat until the clamp clears the area.  Needing to push them by hand is a very, very minor nuisance.  Not worth fixing for that.

 

Now I go pick up the OTA and go to lower it into the saddle.  If I hit it square, great.  If it drags slightly on the left side because it’s heavy and it’s dark and I’m clumsy, the clamp flops back over into the dovetail area and you can’t sit the dovetail into the saddle.  Now (holding the large OTA with two hands) I reach with my third hand and shift the clamp back out of the way.   Except, well, for the lack of a third hand, so I have to set the OTA down on the grass, reset the clamps, pick it up and repeat.  This is the somewhat more serious nuisance, still fairly minor .

 

I didn’t even think to ask about them, I just assumed it was as designed.  I mean, I came from a MyT where you cannot drop in a dovetail, period – you have to slide them in from the end.  So I was absolutely delighted I could drop it in at all.

 

But being able to open the clamps up and have them stay open would be very nice.

 

Linwood

 


Re: Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

Bill Long
 

I am having a hard time determining what the problem is exactly. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Woody Schlom <woody_is@...>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 11:12 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?
 
Marj,

I don't have this problem but I sure appreciate how AP is going about dealing with it.  You guys (and gals) are the best!

Woody 

On September 16, 2021 9:21:35 AM "Marj Christen" <marj@...> wrote:

Tom,

 

The assembly procedure and components have not changed for many years. Your is the first concern that I am aware of regarding this issue. I suspect that many users orient the plate so the clamps are down and gravity has assisted the clamp to move away from the center channel. When the clamps are down, you don’t have to reach over the scope to tighten the knobs.

 

Nevertheless, we have ordered springs that are longer than what we have used. Once we have tested them to be sure that they have the correct compression, we will send some to you.

 

I apologize for the inconvenience.

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Blahovici
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 10:16 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Dovelm162 springs too short or assembled wrong?

 

That's interesting but the saddle is not new. Since I have to seen any other complaints in the past it must be something different now. What's AP going to do about this?
Tom



Re: Erratic behavior, possibly contact related

M. Collins
 

On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 09:43 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
You probably had corrosion on the pins of the Y cable and possibly on the motor box as well.
  This seems to be the most plausible explanation. It's odd that everything worked during bench testing and the first night at the site, then the problem surfaced and persisted after cycling the connectors, replacing the mount controller, etc., and finally went away without any actions which involved the Y cable connections. But I've seen enough strange failure modes involving old equipment and poor contacts to know that almost anything is possible.

  Are there any common connections through the Y cable, e.g., a signal ground pin which is connected to both motor assemblies? Poor contact at one pin which can affect both motor drives would fully explain the symptoms observed last week. (The mount is at one of our remote sites, so I can't readily pull the cable to see how it's wired.)
Runaways occur when the encoder signals don't reach the servo controller, so the controller thinks that the motor is not turning and supplies more and more voltage and current to turn the motor shaft. Of course, the motor shaft is turning, but without the encoder feedback, the controller runs open loop.
  A question about this. On more than one occasion when one or both axes were running away, pressing the stop button on the hand controller had no effect and it was only possible to stop the motors by pulling the power connection. Does the fact that the motors continued to be powered despite the stop operation point to another possible fault?

  Thanks for the details regarding the servo loops and hand controller interface.


Re: APPM - error

 

hmmm

i have used pinpoint for a year or so, and now ASTAP with APPM since the 1.9 release. I have not had any errors doing all sky modeling




On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 11:00 AM Sergei <sergei@...> wrote:
Hi Ray,

I'm also using ASTAP and get quite a few errors on plate solving points in APPM models. Failures also seem to occur very quickly - within a couple of seconds of APPM making a call to ASTAP. Is there a better solver you'd recommend that works more reliably with APPM? I use ASTAP from SGP as well and usually it's quite reliable there, but the sample size is much smaller of course.

Thank you for a terrific piece of software in APCC btw - couldn't imagine using my 1100-AE without it!

Sergei



--
Brian 



Brian Valente

5841 - 5860 of 86913