Date   

Re: Tracking turned off for best results?

Roland Christen
 

That's just three motorcycles coming at you in a rainstorm.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Boshart <bboshart@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Sep 11, 2021 8:36 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Tracking turned off for best results?

Here is something a little different from a couple nights ago.  Three Amazonas geostationary satellites with tracking turned off. Nice round satellites with stars streaking through the image.  



--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Roland Christen
 


I love my FSQ-106 too.
That's the scope I meant. Blush

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2021 9:41 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

I love my FSQ-106 too.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Christopher M
 

I was thinking along the lines that, taking the "artistic license" to an extreme, one can just paint a picture of a space image with paint or software.  I do not disagree with Mr Christen or others.  I consider it misrepresentation to say a heavily modified image is a true photograph when technically it is more "art".  The method Mr Christen describes reminds me of nightscapes where tracked images of stars are superimposed upon still images of landscape.  While some will try hard to produce a final image representing what they saw or felt at that location, others will do the equivalent of pasting pictures of Marvin on a Mars landscape.  I believe I fully understand how Mr Christen and others, myself included, are irked by someone saying "This is an actual photograph" when it isn't.  Unfortunately we have many people misrepresenting their images on the internet, so Kudos to people like Mr Long, Mr Christen and all who review for quality and honesty.  My own teacher has been painfully honest with my imaging attempts to date.  Garbage in => garbage out


AP 1100 GTO with Encoders not slewing or parking correctly

Thomas Giannaccini
 



I recently bought a used AP 1100 GTO with Encoders. 
So I read the manuals, and I’m having a hard time getting my mount to slew to correct park locations on command. It’s completely off; not even remotely close. And it seems as though on different nights it behaves differently.

I also received a “motor stall” error message tonight which Im starting to think is the real problem. This is a used mount of course. When I checked the battery with a battery tester, it checked out okay but it looks like it has a few years on it. Is this a likely source of the problem?


Tracking turned off for best results?

Brent Boshart
 

Here is something a little different from a couple nights ago.  Three Amazonas geostationary satellites with tracking turned off. Nice round satellites with stars streaking through the image.  



Re: APCC Pro "Lastest Install" not Latest #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Thanks Ray. I downloaded again from the AP website, and this time it installed v1.9.0.5 and did not give the
latest release warning. Just to confirm though, when I look at Help/About it shows v1.9.0.5 and 9/6/2021.
Should this show the v1.9.0.5a instead, or is the issue only on the installer missing a DLL?
No lines of code changed, so the version number remained the same. Just the installer filename changed.

-Ray



-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of psparkman via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 5:06 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro "Lastest Install" not Latest #APCC

Thanks Ray. I downloaded again from the AP website, and this time it installed v1.9.0.5 and did not give the
latest release warning. Just to confirm though, when I look at Help/About it shows v1.9.0.5 and 9/6/2021.
Should this show the v1.9.0.5a instead, or is the issue only on the installer missing a DLL?


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Benoit Schillings
 

well, this is basically an information theory problem. blurred images
do contain less information from a Shannon IT standpoint. the basic
info is more or less the resolution convolved with the signal to
noise, and this puts some limits to how well you can invert the
information. Basically, if you do want to deconvolve or anything
similar, the information (entropy) has to stay constant, so you are
trading resolution for signal to noise. So, yes, you could use a lot
of bad data to create some better one, but you cannot create data out
of nothing, and the resolution goes about as the third power of the
initial signal to noise (if I remember well). is this the tradeoff you
want to do ?

-- benoit

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 7:41 PM Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...> wrote:

I love my FSQ-106 too.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Dean Jacobsen
 

I love my FSQ-106 too.
--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Roland Christen
 

You have one of the best scopes for imaging also. Nice setup overall for wide field high  res imaging.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2021 9:31 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 04:47 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
My point was, if you have poor tracking, the underlying image is not sharp, but soft. So you can remove the stars and replace them with sharp stars, but that doesn't make the underlying image sharp. It just gives the appearance that it's sharp, when in fact the actual object that you wish to image is not.
I can't say enough good things about the mounts that the good people at Astro-Physics make.  My 1 year old Mach2 has been spectacular.  Being able to eliminate guiding has really increased my enjoyment of the hobby.  I set up the mount for every use and run a small APPM data collection bracketing the declination of my object for the night.  I can take 110 to 120 subexposures during the night and every one is useable.  No oblong stars or trailing stars. Simply wonderful performance of the mount and software.

My images aren't award winners but I have been amazed at how nice the stars look with 5 1/2 hours of unguided 3 minute images with a mount flip in the middle.

https://www.astrobin.com/ehfj0c/E/

https://www.astrobin.com/udzsan/E/

--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Dean Jacobsen
 

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 04:47 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
My point was, if you have poor tracking, the underlying image is not sharp, but soft. So you can remove the stars and replace them with sharp stars, but that doesn't make the underlying image sharp. It just gives the appearance that it's sharp, when in fact the actual object that you wish to image is not.
I can't say enough good things about the mounts that the good people at Astro-Physics make.  My 1 year old Mach2 has been spectacular.  Being able to eliminate guiding has really increased my enjoyment of the hobby.  I set up the mount for every use and run a small APPM data collection bracketing the declination of my object for the night.  I can take 110 to 120 subexposures during the night and every one is useable.  No oblong stars or trailing stars. Simply wonderful performance of the mount and software.

My images aren't award winners but I have been amazed at how nice the stars look with 5 1/2 hours of unguided 3 minute images with a mount flip in the middle.

https://www.astrobin.com/ehfj0c/E/

https://www.astrobin.com/udzsan/E/

--
Dean Jacobsen
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Bill Long
 

Totally agree. Mounts are the most important piece of the Astrophotography package, as is using them correctly and to their full potential. Similarly good optics that are well collimated, properly thermal managed, and well focused are important as well. The better you manage and use the overall kit, the better your data is. Some people prefer to take shortcuts or the cheap route and just hope to fix it in post. I see this daily when looking through Astrobin submissions as a submitter for IOTD. Out of the roughly 9 pages of images I review per day in my queue, maybe one of two of them meet my bar on a good day. Most days I select none.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 4:47 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting way to image with a cheap mount
 
My point was, if you have poor tracking, the underlying image is not sharp, but soft. So you can remove the stars and replace them with sharp stars, but that doesn't make the underlying image sharp. It just gives the appearance that it's sharp, when in fact the actual object that you wish to image is not.

My next comment was aimed at those who obsess over star roundness and don't actually look at the image sharpness. When you have both, then you might have APOD material.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher M <mirfak@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2021 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

While I jest with the image of Marvin the Martian, it does bring up an interesting point:  Are not all of our processed images technically a blend of Art and Science?  Every time w Enhance Colour, Increase Contrast, Image Burn or Image Mask, False Colour assemble, etc etc, we are taking artistic liberties with the source.  True we are trying to bring out subtle details in nebula, for example, but the real source object probably doesn't look like that exactly.  Some of the best images I've seen are those that have been processed by people with an artistic skill.  At what point does an image move from "science" to "art"?  I contend there is not a real "point".  However I think we can agree that something has moved from artistic to ... overprocessed?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

psparkman@...
 

I agree with Roland.  You can always fake in the stars, but not the underlying nebula detail.  The star measures are a direct measure of the underlying detail.


Re: APCC Pro "Lastest Install" not Latest #APCC

psparkman@...
 

Thanks Ray.  I downloaded again from the AP website, and this time it installed v1.9.0.5 and did not give the latest release warning.  Just to confirm though, when I look at Help/About it shows v1.9.0.5 and 9/6/2021.  Should this show the v1.9.0.5a instead, or is the issue only on the installer missing a DLL?


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Roland Christen
 

My point was, if you have poor tracking, the underlying image is not sharp, but soft. So you can remove the stars and replace them with sharp stars, but that doesn't make the underlying image sharp. It just gives the appearance that it's sharp, when in fact the actual object that you wish to image is not.

My next comment was aimed at those who obsess over star roundness and don't actually look at the image sharpness. When you have both, then you might have APOD material.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher M <mirfak@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Sep 10, 2021 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

While I jest with the image of Marvin the Martian, it does bring up an interesting point:  Are not all of our processed images technically a blend of Art and Science?  Every time w Enhance Colour, Increase Contrast, Image Burn or Image Mask, False Colour assemble, etc etc, we are taking artistic liberties with the source.  True we are trying to bring out subtle details in nebula, for example, but the real source object probably doesn't look like that exactly.  Some of the best images I've seen are those that have been processed by people with an artistic skill.  At what point does an image move from "science" to "art"?  I contend there is not a real "point".  However I think we can agree that something has moved from artistic to ... overprocessed?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Phd2 warning : "disable synchronous pulse guide option in mounts ascom driver settings"

Ray Gralak
 

I think its only fair to mention that the PHD2 team has a different view on this. (I am not on that team, just a
PHD2 user, as well as an AP Driver user, both of which work flawlessly with the 1100GT). That's all I have to
say on this topic.
And they are wrong. It is a well-known fact that COM interop interactions must be done on the same thread. It's the reason that .NET funnels the requests into a single thread. Why else would it do THAT? :-)

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Worsel via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 3:37 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Phd2 warning : "disable synchronous pulse guide option in mounts ascom driver
settings"

I think its only fair to mention that the PHD2 team has a different view on this. (I am not on that team, just a
PHD2 user, as well as an AP Driver user, both of which work flawlessly with the 1100GT). That's all I have to
say on this topic.

Bryan


Re: Phd2 warning : "disable synchronous pulse guide option in mounts ascom driver settings"

Worsel
 

I think its only fair to mention that the PHD2 team has a different view on this.  (I am not on that team, just a PHD2 user, as well as an AP Driver user, both of which work flawlessly with the 1100GT).  That's all I have to say on this topic.

Bryan


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Christopher M
 

While I jest with the image of Marvin the Martian, it does bring up an interesting point:  Are not all of our processed images technically a blend of Art and Science?  Every time w Enhance Colour, Increase Contrast, Image Burn or Image Mask, False Colour assemble, etc etc, we are taking artistic liberties with the source.  True we are trying to bring out subtle details in nebula, for example, but the real source object probably doesn't look like that exactly.  Some of the best images I've seen are those that have been processed by people with an artistic skill.  At what point does an image move from "science" to "art"?  I contend there is not a real "point".  However I think we can agree that something has moved from artistic to ... overprocessed?


Re: Phd2 warning : "disable synchronous pulse guide option in mounts ascom driver settings"

Ray Gralak
 

There is nothing wrong with the AP V2 driver. That message is a warning to indicate PHD2 can become deadlocked because it violates a basic rule of COM interop operations.

There is no problem if either the driver, the client application, or both are built with the .NET Framework because .NET will funnel requests into a single thread. However, when both client and driver are not based on .NET, such as the case with PHD2 and the AP V2 ASCOM driver, the client application (PHD2) must be sure to execute all driver messaging using a single thread, and that thread must be the thread that the client (PHD2) created the COM interop instance.

But, PHD2 does not adhere to this, so it is possible for a deadlock to occur. Using asynchronous PulseGuides minimizes the possibility that PHD2 will deadlock, but it can still happen. The only correct fix is for PHD2 to funnel all COM interop functions through a single thread just like .NET does.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of crib409acme425
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 12:50 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Phd2 warning : "disable synchronous pulse guide option in mounts ascom driver settings"

I have seen this come up twice i believe. The last was with my Mach1, GTOCP3, SGP, AP ascom driver
5.30.10 and using the latest PH D 2 and SGP software. I do not have this option checked in the AP ascom
driver settings. So why did i get this? My tracking was perfect, probably less than 1 arcsec then it failed
when I wonder off. I was too tired at 2 am to reinstitute imaging so I just quit. I unfortunately did not have the
log function checked. I do now.
Thanks cjacobson
What I have should have said is that the option for synchronous pulse guide is not checked in my software.


Re: Interesting way to image with a cheap mount

Christopher M
 


Phd2 warning : "disable synchronous pulse guide option in mounts ascom driver settings"

crib409acme425
 

I have seen this come up twice i believe.  The last was with my Mach1, GTOCP3, SGP, AP ascom driver 5.30.10 and using the latest PH D 2 and SGP software.  I do not have this option checked in the AP ascom driver settings.  So why did i get this?  My tracking was perfect, probably less than 1 arcsec then it failed when I wonder off.  I was too tired at 2 am to reinstitute imaging so I just quit.  I unfortunately did not have the log function checked.  I do now. 
Thanks cjacobson
What I have should have said is that the option for synchronous pulse guide is not checked in my software. 

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