Date   

Re: APCC move axis question

Ray Gralak
 

Okay thanks, Andy.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy Ermolli
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2021 8:21 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC move axis question

Here are the zipped files.

I copied all the logs just to be safe but the ones that matter are the one with time stamp around 8:11pm on
8/31/21
I had to use google drive because the APCC file is too large to attach to this message. I have also attached a
screenshot showing the box for "Enable tracking correction" checked. I believe that is where I turn on tracking
correction generated by the pointing model, correct?

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oISK-px7Lr5F3j5JGzA6veCu9dCt98T8?usp=sharing


Looking for a CP3

Benton Reed
 

 I just bought a AP900 but it has a CP2 control box.  The guy I bought it from said this group would be a good resource for finding a CP3 control box.  If you have one and would like to sell it please let me know.  

Thanks
Benton


hi, may i know how many mach2 could be produced every year? #Mach2GTO

tommydingdxy27@...
 

HI
i just sold my cem60 which has already served me 4 years,it's good but not steady enough. And i think it's time to inverst more to this hobby and upgrade to some real high-end mount, but it seems ap doesn't have any in stock, may i know how long should i be waiting for? several monthes? or years?



DING


Re: Colorful Globular

Mark Striebeck
 

I have to ask: what are those red halos?


On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 6:58 PM Jeff B <mnebula946@...> wrote:
Ok Roland so after all of the excuses and qualifications from your post, I was expecting something less than stellar (HAH!).

WRONG!!

Good Lord man,  that has got to be the best image of M13 I've ever seen.  Period.  I LOVE the colors.  I LOVE the core!

Well done Sensi Rolando!

Jeff

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 5:34 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Shot on Monday night on the Mach2 mount. Not the best transparency and heavy light pollution as well as smoke from western fires, but I did manage to capture some very faint stars. Tracking was done with Dec Arc model active and nudge guiding.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Colorful Globular

Jeff B
 

Ok Roland so after all of the excuses and qualifications from your post, I was expecting something less than stellar (HAH!).

WRONG!!

Good Lord man,  that has got to be the best image of M13 I've ever seen.  Period.  I LOVE the colors.  I LOVE the core!

Well done Sensi Rolando!

Jeff

On Wed, Sep 1, 2021 at 5:34 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Shot on Monday night on the Mach2 mount. Not the best transparency and heavy light pollution as well as smoke from western fires, but I did manage to capture some very faint stars. Tracking was done with Dec Arc model active and nudge guiding.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Christopher M
 

Thank you Cytan (Tan?)  That is indeed interesting to see the impact of winds, and good to know how tight it can keep the tracking with them.  It emphasises that a Mach 2 would not be the right mount for me.  One so often sees the question "will this carry that" regarding mounts but I've rarely seen mention of the same with respect to wind.  My G11 will carry and track with my EDT telescope setup, but only under calm air.
I have access to a very old tangent arm DS-16 mount upgraded with a wonderful and huge Mathis RA gear and AC motors.  However the head weighs close to 70# and I'm approaching 60yrs, which is not a good combination.  And I'm getting lazy so things like Polar Alignment telescopes (as compared to drift aligning every night), GoTo or DSS and just plain portability have become more important to my sessions.  :)


Re: APPM and The SkyX

Dale Ghent
 

APCC pointing models (created via APPM) and T-Point are mutually exclusive. One or the other, not both. The two modeling systems would likely fight each other even it it were technically possible as it would no longe be a closed-loop control system.

Feature-wise, you will always want to prefer APCC over T-Point. One major reason is that T-Point does not apply its pointing model to the mount's tracking when it is dealing with non-Bisque mounts. Therefore you're left only with pointing accuracy. As an imager, pointing accuracy takes a back seat to tracking accuracy in terms of performance, so T-Point is pretty much pointless (pardon the pun) for the A-P mount user who images.

On Sep 1, 2021, at 17:51, Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...> wrote:

I am new to APPM model building for my AP1100AE and have used Tpoint on TSX for a Bisque mount which I have since sold in lieu of an AP1100AE. Can an APPM model coexist with Tpoint? Or should I not run Tpoint at all? Does it help or hinder? I know that I cannot use Direct Guide on an AP mount nor can I use Tpoint corrections, but I am hoping to use APPM corrections and the AE should help with other variables (wind, dangling wires - though I have none - etc.).

Any pointers or recommendations will help.

Shailesh


APPM and The SkyX

Shailesh Trivedi
 

I am new to APPM model building for my AP1100AE and have used Tpoint on TSX for a Bisque mount which I have since sold in lieu of an AP1100AE. Can an APPM model coexist with Tpoint? Or should I not run Tpoint at all? Does it help or hinder? I know that I cannot use Direct Guide on an AP mount nor can I use Tpoint corrections, but I am hoping to use APPM corrections and the AE should help with other variables (wind, dangling wires - though I have none - etc.).

Any pointers or recommendations will help.

Shailesh


Re: Is PulseGuide still supported?

Shailesh Trivedi
 

Thanks, Fernando, Per Ray, if you have APPMPRO you do not need it, since the functionality is included and IIRC even in APPM standard.

Shailesh


Colorful Globular

Roland Christen
 

https://www.astrobin.com/cnsikb/0/

Shot on Monday night on the Mach2 mount. Not the best transparency and heavy light pollution as well as smoke from western fires, but I did manage to capture some very faint stars. Tracking was done with Dec Arc model active and nudge guiding.

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Christopher,
    I have a very similar setup as yours after you get the AP1100AE:

Inline image

I have the AP1100AE. I was imaging on Friday night which started out pretty calm but near midnight the winds picked up and it had wind gusts around 8 mph.

Here's my guide graphs before the winds picked up with guide error of 0.22 arcsec.

Inline image



Here's the guide graphs after the winds picked up. Guide error is now 0.45 arcs.

Inline image

The guiding definitely does get worse with wind as expected but it's still below 0.5 arcsec. And for the pixel scale that I am using, it's not a problem.

Perhaps there are better settings in PHD2 to be more aggressive in the corrections:

X guide algorithm = Hysteresis, Hysteresis = 0.100, Aggression = 0.700, Minimum move = 0.210
Y guide algorithm = Lowpass2, Aggressiveness = 80.000, Minimum move = 0.210

and the exposure time is 3s. (For whatever reasonm PHDLOG2 thinks that it is 1s, I actually have a screen capture to prove that it is 3 s).

cytan




Re: < S > keypad buttons not responding

George
 

Glenn,

Contact me. It is likely that the keypad will need to come in for repair...sounds like the key switch.

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)
Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)
Email:  george@...

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn Graham
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:35 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] < S > keypad buttons not responding

I’ve been using the keypad with my Mach1 mount for a few years with no issues until last night when the third row of buttons < S > stopped responding. It was independent of the current menu mode (slew choice, object choice, etc.) and the other functions associated with the other buttons operated just fine. It was working the day before and there was nothing traumatic (bump,drop, etc.). It was out in the sunshine during solar Ha observing.

I’ve got an EE background and tinkered with enough calculator and remote control keypads that my first instinct was to open it up and have a look but I resisted the urge and decided to post for advice here instead. I did a search of previous posts but didn't find anything relevant. With the entire line out, I’m hoping it is something loose/not making contact that can be remedied from home.

Thanks,
-Glenn


DEC Tracking test

Craig Young
 

I have been a major critic of APCC over the last several years due to its poor tracking performance on my 16" RC w/1600AE mount and plate scale of 0.57 arcsec/pixel.  So it was with great enthusiasm to finally get a chance to try out the new DEC arc tracking feature in APCC.  For my photometry research program it is required that the mount track on the same pixel over a 6 hour DEC arc run.  I don't use an autoguider because of all the technical issues and instead wrote a software program called ATrack which controls the mount precisely using science image plate solving in real time to make corrections to the mount tracking.  This has been successful and achieves the goal of 1 pixel over 6 hours without an autoguider.

So last night I setup a DEC arc centered of -30 DEC (I am in southern hemisphere), east sky only using 3 DEC arcs with 1 degree spacing: -31, -30 and -29.  The RA spacing was set at 5 degrees and the arc ran from -3 HA to 0 HA.  This resulted in 9 points on each arc for a total of 27 points.  APPM collected the data which took only a few minutes and built a model based on these parameters.

I then pointed the mount at -1.5 HA and -30 DEC and recorded 20 images each of 60 seconds.  No autoguider was used and ATrack was used to measure the drift and image shift numbers without doing any corrections.

The results were spectacular.  ATrack reported an inter-image drift of less than an arcsecond, typically 0.2 arcseconds across all 20 images.  Over the 20 minutes or so of testing the image drift was no more than a couple of arcseconds with the final image being less than an arcsecond from the first image in the sequence.  Residual tracking errors in each image combine to produce an image shift over the entire run but ATrack can easily correct for this by re-centering the next image.  This is done by adding a slight bias in RA and DEC to the tracking motors for a period of time, similar to what an autoguider would do when using pulse guiding corrections.

More testing is needed but I would like to request two features:
1. A tab on APPM titled "DEC ARC models" in which you define your DEC arc.  For example, a DEC arc would be defined as centered on -30 15 27 and a spacing of 1 degree.  This would result in a APPM model of three arcs, the center arc, and an arc on either side separated by 1 degree.  In addition, the RA spacing could be specified to define the number of points on each arc.  The defaults for this would be: DEC position would be current mount DEC.  DEC spacing would be 1 degree.  RA spacing would be 5 degrees.  And a checkbox for East or West or both.  A name for the arc would also be good.  I believe this would make it easier and faster to create DEC arcs.
2. APPM is used to create multiple DEC arcs, one for each object being imaged.  Then when the mount is slewed to an object, APCC looks for the DEC arc that most closely matches the object DEC and loads it.  That way the user does not have to manually do this.

In any case, well done Ray for providing us with an excellent new tracking feature and all the hard work Ray and the AP team have put into this.  This really advances the software capability of APCC and shows how good the AP mounts and software can perform.

Craig
Crystal Lake Observatory
New Zealand


< S > keypad buttons not responding

Glenn Graham
 

I’ve been using the keypad with my Mach1 mount for a few years with no issues until last night when the third row of buttons < S > stopped responding. It was independent of the current menu mode (slew choice, object choice, etc.) and the other functions associated with the other buttons operated just fine. It was working the day before and there was nothing traumatic (bump,drop, etc.). It was out in the sunshine during solar Ha observing.

I’ve got an EE background and tinkered with enough calculator and remote control keypads that my first instinct was to open it up and have a look but I resisted the urge and decided to post for advice here instead. I did a search of previous posts but didn't find anything relevant. With the entire line out, I’m hoping it is something loose/not making contact that can be remedied from home.

Thanks,
-Glenn


Re: GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

George
 

Christopher,

 

You’re most welcome.

 

…and you, please be safe.    Enjoy!

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher M
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 12:30 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

 

Thank you Mr Whitney, Mr Christen.
That link on counterweights was enlightening.  When I had seen images of setups with many counter weights, I had assumed it was because the users didn't want to carry around single huge weights.  I will give that a try next time out.
As for power supply voltages, I was thinking along the lines that the higher voltages would result in higher torque and speed on the drive motors which might improve "response" bit, everything else being equal.  No matter.  This all helps me and I have put myself on the wait list for an AP1100.  :)
All the best and keep safe everyone.
C


Re: GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Christopher M
 

Thank you Mr Whitney, Mr Christen.
That link on counterweights was enlightening.  When I had seen images of setups with many counter weights, I had assumed it was because the users didn't want to carry around single huge weights.  I will give that a try next time out.
As for power supply voltages, I was thinking along the lines that the higher voltages would result in higher torque and speed on the drive motors which might improve "response" bit, everything else being equal.  No matter.  This all helps me and I have put myself on the wait list for an AP1100.  :)
All the best and keep safe everyone.
C


Re: GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Roland Christen
 


I suspect that the 1100 w AE dynamic response would be a bit slower than the Mach 2's response with its faster motors (based on slew speed).  Is that correct? 
Slew speed has nothing to do with dynamic response.

I would suspect that the 1100 non-AE mount would have more wind resistance than the Mach2 simply because of the larger worm wheel and heavier overall construction.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher M <mirfak@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2021 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

Thank you Mr Christen.  That helps me understand the benefits and differences of each of your Mach 2 and 1100 non-AE mounts which are similarly priced.  If I may summarise my understanding:  A Mach 2 w built in AE, will provide DYNAMIC wind resistance with the AE feedback system, while a larger and similarly priced 1100 non-AE will provide MECHANICAL wind resistance through its larger gear/drive system.  An 1100 non-AE can later be upgraded to AE to then provide both mechanical AND dynamic wind resistance.  I suspect that the 1100 w AE dynamic response would be a bit slower than the Mach 2's response with its faster motors (based on slew speed).  Is that correct?  Would the Mach 2's dynamic feedback then be even faster (ie tighter) at higher power supply voltages since its slew speeds are faster with them?

Wind resistance is important to me as my worst case is a long setup at over 55" from front of dew sheild to back of camera, and live on the prairies here in Alberta where still nights with clear skies are few and far between and no permanent observatory.  At just under 40# for my setup, it shows as being well within the Dec weight and inertial moment graph of the Mach 2, but I assumed that graph was for "general" loads, and does not factor in wind resistance.
Top photo for fun is my friend John's "ultimate wind resistance"package of a RedCat51 on his AP900.

And my (new to me) imaging package of an AP130EDT w an 8300 based camera on, yes, a G11, which has the wind resistance of a piece of tissue paper.  Note that I started with a much smaller setup so I didn't notice wind issues until I put this together.  (roll eyes)

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Encoder mount guiding with model active

Chris White
 

Wow.  Extremely cool.  Thank you. 


Re: Encoder mount guiding with model active

Roland Christen
 

The number at the bottom of the chart is in seconds, so for approx. 900 second run the Dec had one correction, the RA had 4. Correction pulse was sent only when the error exceeded 0.3 arc seconds. So, for many many guide cycles no corrections were sent, and then only occasionally.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris White <chris.white@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2021 6:19 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Encoder mount guiding with model active

I'm not familiar with Maxim, so cant decipher the charts... but about how often do you find you are sending a guide pulse?  I.e.- With the encoder are you requiring a guidecorrection every few captures, or just rarely?  1600mm FL is pretty awesome to be able to run unguided. 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

George
 

Christopher,

 

You both need more counterweights to improve performance.   See:

https://www.astro-physics.info/tech_support/accessories/mounting_acc/balance-to-optimize-guiding.pdf

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher M
Sent: Wednesday, September 1, 2021 10:46 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] GTO vs AE/AEL data #Absolute_Encoders

 

Thank you Mr Christen.  That helps me understand the benefits and differences of each of your Mach 2 and 1100 non-AE mounts which are similarly priced.  If I may summarise my understanding:  A Mach 2 w built in AE, will provide DYNAMIC wind resistance with the AE feedback system, while a larger and similarly priced 1100 non-AE will provide MECHANICAL wind resistance through its larger gear/drive system.  An 1100 non-AE can later be upgraded to AE to then provide both mechanical AND dynamic wind resistance.  I suspect that the 1100 w AE dynamic response would be a bit slower than the Mach 2's response with its faster motors (based on slew speed).  Is that correct?  Would the Mach 2's dynamic feedback then be even faster (ie tighter) at higher power supply voltages since its slew speeds are faster with them?

Wind resistance is important to me as my worst case is a long setup at over 55" from front of dew sheild to back of camera, and live on the prairies here in Alberta where still nights with clear skies are few and far between and no permanent observatory.  At just under 40# for my setup, it shows as being well within the Dec weight and inertial moment graph of the Mach 2, but I assumed that graph was for "general" loads, and does not factor in wind resistance.
Top photo for fun is my friend John's "ultimate wind resistance"package of a RedCat51 on his AP900.

And my (new to me) imaging package of an AP130EDT w an 8300 based camera on, yes, a G11, which has the wind resistance of a piece of tissue paper.  Note that I started with a much smaller setup so I didn't notice wind issues until I put this together.  (roll eyes)

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