Date   

Re: #APCC - V1.9 Tracking Error #APCC

Rouz
 
Edited


Now with 7 x 300s = 35 minutes. The star has moved 1.05 pixels.

This is a model with PEM off and tracking of PEM off (Dec priority).

All corrections are ON (Model, Refraction, Dec-arc).

I'm assuming it was PEM and hopefully don't need to make a model with points 1 degree apart.

But that's the only parameter that changed (PEM) this session. I just decreased the Ra spacing from 5 to 4 degrees which shouldn't have such a large impact.

I'm assuming the PEC wasn't right. The factory curve was a couple of years old and my new recording must have not been very accurate either due to the mediocre seeing that night or curve parameters I set.


Re: #APCC - V1.9 Tracking Error #APCC

Rouz
 
Edited

Ok look's like I got something!

Made another model slight tighter. 1 degree in Dec and 4 in Ra.

But this time I turned PEM off for both APPM and image capture.

The target stopped moving.

I now see 1-2 pixel shift in random directions from 1 300 sec frame to the next.

After 20 minutes of 300s subs, a star moved some 2-3 pixels.

I think the PEM was the cause.

The model is not very practical and would require too many points at this spacing (thousands maybe).

The clouds rolled in but I got 6 x 300s subs with minimal shift.


- Rouz


Re: #APCC - V1.9 Tracking Error #APCC

Rouz
 

Dominique,

Yes


-Rouz


Re: #APCC - V1.9 Tracking Error #APCC

Dominique
 

Hi Rouz,
I could not this information, but with corrections (All) and without corrections it drifts in an identical way?

Dominique


Re: #APCC - V1.9 Tracking Error #APCC

Rouz
 

Ok, Ray had mentioned at some point to have points much closer together than my previous model.

Made a model tonight concentrating either side of the Dec of the target with the points are very close together.  1 degree for Dec - 5 degrees in Ra.

The mode scatter graph also looks good.

I tried all combinations like model correction on - Dec arc and refraction corrections on and off.  Also tried PEM on vs off.

Target still moves in 1 direction at a slower pace. about 45 degrees diagonal. Eccentricity is about 0.5 to 0.6 for 300s subs and 0.92" image scale. 




Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Ray Gralak
 

Geoffrey,

 

> The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32

> points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

 

All-sky modeling has not changed between 1.8.8.17 to 1.9.0.1 so whatever difference you are seeing is in the data you are collecting. If you are using a different plate solver, for instance, accuracy will be different.

 

> the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.

 

APPM should report an error. If you are using ASTAP I explained how to find the error in a previous post to you. Here is that information again:

 

"If you haven't already, you can prevent APPM from deleting the FITS image by saving failed images as shown in the screen shot below. Then look for the file with the same name as the fits file but with an “.INI” extension. Open that file and look for a line that says “WARNING=” and that should contain the reason for the failed plate solve."

 

 

-Ray

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io

> Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 8:29 PM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

>

> Ray,

>

> I can plate solve and the pointing is spot on for that particular point from then on.  If I try do do a mapping run the

> plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run at any point and do a plate solve that will solve.  I assume I have

> something is set up wrong in the mapping run.  But I could do a mapping run before the update.

>

>

> 2s is the settle time.

>

> I did try the high accuracy slew tonight.

>

> The plate solve when I press the Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal button is fractions of a second.  The max

> solve time is currently set to 35 seconds.

>

> the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.

>

> The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32

> points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

>

>

>


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Geoffrey Collins
 

Ray,

I can plate solve and the pointing is spot on for that particular point from then on.  If I try do do a mapping run the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run at any point and do a plate solve that will solve.  I assume I have something is set up wrong in the mapping run.  But I could do a mapping run before the update.  


2s is the settle time.

I did try the high accuracy slew tonight. 

The plate solve when I press the Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal button is fractions of a second.  The max solve time is currently set to 35 seconds.

the error log solved max solve time exceeded but maybe I didn’t look in the correct place.  

The mount accuracy/RMS without the model is still great but not as good as it was when I had a model with only 32 points.  Pointing with the model was perfect.  Now it is a little off.

 


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Geoffrey Collins
 

Ok. Thank you.


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Ray Gralak
 

After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking
unpark from last position.
That's the problem. Don’t do that. You are losing the model's RA/Dec offset by doing that.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail. I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the
plate solve succeeds.
Have you followed the suggestions I made yesterday to determine why the plate solves are failing? One possibility is that you there wasn't enough settle time.

And BTW, if NINA was not set as a server you couldn't have used it to plate solve when you stopped the mapping run. Maybe you mis-remembered and were using ASCOM Camera control instead? And because you unparked from Park 3 the offset RA/Dec values can make some plate solves fail.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 7:45 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

On initialization it unparks automatically. I have it set not to unpark. I remember from this group that there is a way
to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again. After
initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from
last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail. I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the
plate solve succeeds.

Thank you for your help. Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount. The through the mount
cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Roland Christen
 


I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.
That's your problem. Always unpark from last position.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the plate solve succeeds.  

Thank you for your help.  Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount.  The through the mount cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Geoffrey Collins
 

On initialization it unparks automatically.  I have it set not to unpark.  I remember from this group that there is a way to prevent automatic unpacking on initialization, but I have not gone back to review that post again.  After initialization during the night, I always unpark in APCC with Park 3 on the park tab rather than picking unpark from last position.

I keep trying to do a mapping run but the plate solves fail.  I can stop the mapping run and do a plate solve and the plate solve succeeds.  

Thank you for your help.  Your dedication to customers is unbelievable. I love the mount.  The through the mount cabling is great and the modular components for longevity with the ability to unhook the CP4 are genius.


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Roland Christen
 

How do you unpark?

Roland


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

I have an 1100.  I always park with APCC.  It parks properly except for the first time each night.  Pointing is off significantly unless I repark after initialization and then loosen clutch in RA to get the mount back to zero/counter weight down.  I am sure I have a setting wrong somewhere.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Geoffrey Collins
 

I have an 1100.  I always park with APCC.  It parks properly except for the first time each night.  Pointing is off significantly unless I repark after initialization and then loosen clutch in RA to get the mount back to zero/counter weight down.  I am sure I have a setting wrong somewhere.


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Roland Christen
 

Usually parking issues are caused by unparking with one app and parking with a different app, if these apps have slightly different times. This does not occur in the Mach2, so I'm assuming you have another mount.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Geoffrey Collins via groups.io <geoffreycollins@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 24, 2021 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Thanks Brent.  Server was not enabled.  I enabled server and now NINA camera works with APPM.

Anyone have any ideas why plate solves fail in a mapping run but not if I click the button Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal?  Mapping run plate solves worked before the recent APCC update.

I also still have the parking issue above when starting up the first time each day.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Geoffrey Collins
 

Thanks Brent.  Server was not enabled.  I enabled server and now NINA camera works with APPM.

Anyone have any ideas why plate solves fail in a mapping run but not if I click the button Plate Solve or Plate Solve and Recal?  Mapping run plate solves worked before the recent APCC update.

I also still have the parking issue above when starting up the first time each day.


Re: #APCC - V1.9 Tracking Error #APCC

Rouz
 

Had some clear sky last night.

Fine tuned the polar alightment (Sharpcap).

Ran Pempro,  native PE was about 3". Updated the pec file and turned "PEM" on.

I was running out of time so only did a "west" model with some 55 points   - DECLINATION priority.

Tried with Dec-arc and/or refraction on & off with similar results.


The stars move diagonally about 45 degrees to the axis about the same amount as the previous attempt.

I'm not sure how to proceed at this point. Any ideas would be appreciated.
 


-Rouz



Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Brent Boshart
 

Regarding problem #2 -  Make sure in NINA under "Options" and "General" that "Server Enabled" is on.


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Ray Gralak
 

Also, make sure you are using the correct version of NINA. Some older versions of NINA do not support APPM.

If you haven't already, please refer to Dale Ghent's excellent link describing the details:

https://daleghent.com/nina-and-astro-physics-mounts


-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 8:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Plate solve fail max time exceeded. It is set to 35 seconds now. Manual solves work almost immediately. I just
one and it solved in .4 seconds.


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Ray Gralak
 

Can you be more specific about which plate solver(s) worked and didn't? Are you saying both PinPoint and ASTAP failed tonight?

 

If you are using ASTAP, check that the image scale is still set correctly. I've had ASTAP "solve" but the solve had bad coordinates and set the wrong image scale.

 

BTW, if you haven't already, you can prevent APPM from deleting the FITS image by saving failed images as shown in the screen shot below. Then look for the file with the same name as the fits file but with an “.INI” extension. Open that file and look for a line that says “WARNING=” and that should contain the reason for the failed plate solve.

 

 

-Ray

 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Collins via groups.io

> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 8:42 PM

> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io

> Subject: [ap-gto] APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

>

> With the new APCC, I have been unable to successfully complete a pointing model.   I can slew to a star through

> APCC and solve successfully.   Pressing the button “Plate solving and recal” will solve and recal.  However if I start

> a run at the same point, I just did a solve and recal the solving fails.  Successive points also fail.  Last night I went

> through about 60 points and maybe 4 solved. Tonight I am having the same problem.  Help.

>

> I have tried Pinpoint which I have previously used and ASTAP for the runs.

>

> I successfully completed a pointing run a couple of weeks again with the old version OF APCC/APPM using

> Pinpoint. The mount performed perfectly.

>

> I uninstalled APPC and reinstalled today.  That did not help.

>

> Problem 2, I also get an error if I attempt to connect my camera in APPM through the NINA option. If I connect

> through ASCOM, the camera will work in APPM.  The error when connecting through the NINA option does send an

> error to log to AP.

>

> Problem 3, I always park to Park 3.  When I unpark the next morning I have noticed pointing is off.  What I learned

> is to repark after initializing, then the mount slews counterweight to the west (RA), then I release the clutch carefully

> and place the mount in park 3.  Then the mount would point with precision with my old model. The mount would also

> park to the correct Park 3 position.  The only problem is I parking the first time for a night.  I assume this is a time

> setting issue somewhere or a improper location setting.

>


Re: APPM Run vs Plate Solve and Recal

Geoffrey Collins
 

Plate solve fail max time exceeded.   It is set to 35 seconds now.  Manual solves work almost immediately.  I just one and it solved in .4 seconds.  

2761 - 2780 of 83105