Date   

Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

midmoastro
 

Thanks Marj, thanks Ray. I uninstalled 1.8.8.17 and installed the new version without issue.
Todd


Re: [FAQ] Using NINA with Astro-Physics mounts

Worsel
 

Thanks, Dale! 

Bryan


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Worsel
 

Marj

The entire Renewal process went smoothly.  Thanks to everyone involved in rolling out this latest huge step forward!

One comment.

The license key is provided in both the DRMCert confirmation page and the e-mail that comes after confirmation.  Only  the latter has the line breaks shown that result in 5 lines, which APCC expects for a valid license.  The DRMComm displays the entire key without line breaks.  It's easy to figure out where the line breaks should be (Prod, Name, E-mail, Date, RegCode), but it's easier to use the 5-line version in the e-mail.

Bryan


Re: [FAQ] Using NINA with Astro-Physics mounts

Dan Richey <dr.richey@...>
 

I see that NINA does not support SBIG cameras.

Dan Richey


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Under 'Important Installation Information' it states: "Do you have to uninstall previous versions? If your installed
version is earlier than 1.5.0.6, you must UNINSTALL all previous version of APCC."
The Eltima driver was updated twice, once at 1.5.0.6 and again at 1.9.0.0/1.

You only need to uninstall/reinstall APCC if the Eltima driver version changes, but if you don't it is not the end of the world. The new version might not get installed but the older version will still work.

So here are the version changes that you should uninstall the old version and install the new version (no settings or license will be lost):

1.5.0.5 and earlier => any later version.
1.5.0.6 through 1.8.8.17 => 1.9.0.0 and later.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of midmoastro
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 5:06 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

[Edited Message Follows]

New to Astro-Physics mounts and all the associated software but I am slowly making my way through it.
One thing I noticed which may need a little clarification is on this page: https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-
download-center/#Installation-information
Under 'Important Installation Information' it states: "Do you have to uninstall previous versions? If your installed
version is earlier than 1.5.0.6, you must UNINSTALL all previous version of APCC."
However, in looking at this page: https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-download-center/#download-basics
and the APCC Pro Manual on page 50 (which was released August 14, 2021), it states "If you are updating
from v1.8.8.17 or an earlier version, you must uninstall any previous version of APCC in the Windows Control
Panel. This is due to the new version of the Eltima Virtual
Ports Driver (V9) that will be installed."

I am currently on version 1.8.8.17 so it sounds like I need to uninstall APCC pro first? And settings will not be
impacted and previous license information can still be recognized?
I assume the latest PDF of APCC is correct?

Todd


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

 

Thank you for catching that, Todd. I have updated the website per the manual.

 

Incidentally, this is one of the FREE updates that everyone is entitled to and a good reason to update for all.

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of midmoastro
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 7:06 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

 

[Edited Message Follows]

New to Astro-Physics mounts and all the associated software but I am slowly making my way through it.
One thing I noticed which may need a little clarification is on this page:  https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-download-center/#Installation-information
Under 'Important Installation Information' it states: "Do you have to uninstall previous versions?  If your installed version is earlier than 1.5.0.6, you must UNINSTALL all previous version of APCC."
However, in looking at this page: https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-download-center/#download-basics
and the APCC Pro Manual on page 50 (which was released August 14, 2021), it states "If you are updating from v1.8.8.17 or an earlier version, you must uninstall any previous version of APCC in the Windows Control Panel. This is due to the new version of the Eltima Virtual
Ports Driver (V9) that will be installed."

I am currently on version 1.8.8.17 so it sounds like I need to uninstall APCC pro first? And settings will not be impacted and previous license information can still be recognized?
I assume the latest PDF of APCC is correct?

Todd


Re: [FAQ] Using NINA with Astro-Physics mounts

KHursh
 

Thanks Dale, 

I am super excited to finally be able to use this.

Kevin


Re: Ugghhh cross threaded CW shaft into CW shaft adapter with metal threaded sleeve

M Hambrick
 

Very good discussion. Thanks Cytan for the articles about galling, and thanks Chris for the tip about the Break Free CLP. I will have to try that.

Mike


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

I think it's not uncommon for the initial reaction to a change in software pricing model, and certainly from a single all-inclusive to some form of subscription, is one that can be described as jolting.

Paying for upgrades (note: different from updates which are things like bug fixes and small adds within a major version) is a model that has existed for a long time, just not under the banner of a subscription. Using Microsoft examples, which are a small subset of all possible examples: Windows upgrades, Office upgrades, Server upgrades ... these were all for-a-fee upgrades. You got patches for what you had, but you had to buy the upgrade. Hey, that's a subscription model if I've ever seen one. It just wasn't called that, back in the day.

I think the psychology behind these upgrades and how they're quantified by our lizard brain is why MS changed their product versioning. We didn't upgrade from Windows 3.1 to Windows 4.0; we upgraded to something psychologically different - Windows 95. Sure, I'll pay for that. It has "new product" written all over it. But paying $100 for a mere 9 more 10ths of a whole version number to get from 3.1(1) to 4.0? Ha ha you gotta be kidding.

The pay-for-upgrades scheme is equitable. It funds the development of the software in a /more reliable/ way and you're not pretending that the person who bought your software 3 major versions ago, 5 years ago, and who would benefit from the next release still funds the development that next release. The monolithic single-price, upgrades-in-perpetuity model was, I think, an unfortunately popular trend in the computing industry as a whole. Consumers latched onto it because they got a *really* good deal out of it. Upgrades forever? Sign me up!

The point is that software development has real costs and there are limits to it being a loss-leader or funded on an allowance provided by the incidental sale of some other product. At some point it has to fund itself in order to be sustainable, and some form of subscription model is a way to do that.

People might know me as an unabashed free/open source software booster. How I do my software is of course my own preference and I do it for my own reasons. But I know that if I did things in a commercial sense, a subscription model would only make sense. Maybe not for little one-off things that are more of a create-and-it-lives-forever-as-is tool, but certainly it would be the case for software that has a long term vision and roadmap.

On Aug 17, 2021, at 18:02, W Hilmo <y.groups@...> wrote:

I apologize if I caused any confusion.

To be clear, this specific model is not "keep paying or lose access".? It's "we need to be paid for our efforts, and we would prefer to make it recurring and not tied to specific major releases".

I understand this model very well, as well as many pieces of software that use it.

As it happens, I have some experience with this model as implemented by a competitor to Astro-Physics.? I recently renewed one of these subscriptions.? In my case, the couple of features that I needed turned out to be not included in the subscription.? They wanted a significant additional cost - and *another* subscription - to get them.? My response was to start migrating away from that software.

While I don't expect that kind of problem with Astro-Physics, the subscription model, in all its forms, is a slippery slope across the industry.? So often, we lose things that end up being significant by looking the other way from a bunch of small things that, taken individually, are not necessarily significant.

My response to that is to stay off the slippery slope.? I've compromised a few times before, as above, and typically regret it.

The thing that I'm wrestling with today is that I have been looking forward to these new features.? I want very much to say "Just take my money!!!", but I don't want to feel like I've sold my soul to support this model.? I honestly don't know how it's going to go...

Finally, I realize that I'm being an idealist here, and am out on the fringe.? But my life has revolved around the software industry in some way or other for nearly 40 years, so I am passionate about it.? It would be far easier for me to just take out my credit card, than to write these two responses.

With that, I don't have anything more to say about it.? My intent was to make one response and be done.? I'm only making a second response to make it clear that I have not misinterpreted the model, and that pointing out other software that uses it does not endear me to it.

On 8/17/21 2:31 PM, Bill Long wrote:
This is an important distinction as it's not like Office 365, for example, where you lose access (other than read only) if your subscription expires. Voyager uses this same model that AP is implementing, as does SkyX, and if I'm not mistaken MaximDL.?

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 1:48 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
?
You can continue to use the version that you have forever, without a subscription. All the new features that we developed took a lot of people a lot of effort over the last 2 years. As the state of the art of astronomical imaging advances, we are advancing with it. And it isn't cheap or easy keeping up with you guys. APCC Pro is now incredibly powerful and accurate, just ask George who spent 3 days last week imaging until dawn without ever turning on his guiding software. (hey George, when are you going to process those images?).

I've spent most clear nights this year working with both our 1600 and our Mach2 mounts doing imaging-testing with various scopes, and these new functions work great. Ray has worked tirelessly on developing this program and Marj and others have spent all their spare time bringing it all together. When i mean all their spare time, I mean that Marj worked all thru our vacation, and every day including Saturdays and Sundays for the last 2 years.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: W Hilmo <y.groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

This is a difficult response for me to write.

I've been eagerly waiting for some of the new features that are included in this release.? But I'm incredibly disappointed with the change to the business model.

Please understand that this has nothing whatsoever to do with cost.? If you put all that great work into new features, and then called it APCC Pro v2, and set a $200 upgrade cost for the major version change, I would have already purchased it by now.? I absolutely support the fact that the folks that write software should be compensated.? I, myself, have made a very good living writing software.? It's allowed me to own your fine products and to retire while I am young enough to enjoy the freedom.? As such, I am familiar with the economics of software development more than most.

My problem is that I am *very* strongly opposed to any subscription model for software that runs local to my machine.? Note that this is different than paying a subscription cost, say, for content as with a streaming service.? My feelings on this are strong enough, that there are other astronomy software packages that I will never be able to use because I will not support the model.? There are even products from the company that I used to work for, that I will never use for this reason.

Until today, I have had nothing but good feelings about all of my interactions with Astro-Physics and your products.? Now, every time that I run APCC Pro, I'm going to be reminded of this subscription model.

I am very sorry to send this response, but I have enough respect for Astro-Physics that I feel that I should make my feelings known, as it affects my position as a customer.? I do not have any expectation that you will change your model over my feedback, but I needed to get it out there.

Thanks for listening,
-Wade

On 8/17/21 1:02 PM, Marj Christen wrote:
APCC v1.9 is now available for download at the following links and from the APCC Download Center of our website.
https://www.apastrosoftware.com/apcc_download/ApccStandardLatest.exe
https://www.apastrosoftware.com/apcc_download/ApccProLatest.exe

This version has several long-awaited and significant new features for APCC Pro:
• ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - Declination-Arc tracking algorithm. This new algorithm is an alternative to the normal all sky tracking model that APCC Pro uses.
• ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - APPM can use ASTAP for plate-solving.
• ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - APPM can use NINA for camera control.
• ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - For third-party satellite trackers, real-time RA/Dec can be returned using the :GRGD# command.
Complete Version History with all updates and bug fixes for APCC Standard and PRO versions:
https://www.astro-physics.info/tech_support/software/apcc/apcc-version-history.pdf

Many thanks to Dale Ghent and Ray Gralak for working together to add NINA camera control to APCC. We know that many APCC users have been very interested in NINA to improve their workflow.
?
Since the introduction of APCC years ago, our website has stated that we intended to offer a subscription renewal option after the first year for approximately 20% of the price. ?Many of you have been using APCC for years without any extra charge as we added new features and refined our pointing model.? Many features were suggested by users to streamline their workflow, provide additional information or control, integrate with other complimentary software and to safeguard your system.

The time has now come for us to implement our subscription renewal program so that we can continue to develop new features that our users have requested.

If the date of your APCC license key is August 1, 2020 or later, all of the new features outlined in the version history will be activated when you install v1.9.

If the date of your APCC license key is earlier than August 1, 2020, only the bug fixes and minor updates will be activated. To activate all the new major features, you will need to purchase a one-year renewal subscription. When that process is complete, you will receive a new license that includes the renewal date.

Major points:
• ? ? ? ??Renewal is optional. Your current version of APCC will continue to operate as it always has.
• ? ? ? ??Everyone is entitled to the bug fixes and minor updates of v1.9 and all new versions going forward regardless of whether you renew your subscription or not. We encourage you to keep your software up-to-date.
• ? ? ? ? The process for obtaining the one-year subscription takes you to the DigitalRiver MyCommerce e-commerce website. It is available to you at your convenience and does not require contact with our office.
You probably have many questions about this new process. We have anticipated many of these and encourage you to visit the Order and FAQ tabs of the APCC page on our website. Please take a few moments to read that first before your posting questions here. ?
https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc

Thank you for supporting further development of APCC!!
--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

midmoastro
 
Edited

New to Astro-Physics mounts and all the associated software but I am slowly making my way through it.
One thing I noticed which may need a little clarification is on this page:  https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-download-center/#Installation-information
Under 'Important Installation Information' it states: "Do you have to uninstall previous versions?  If your installed version is earlier than 1.5.0.6, you must UNINSTALL all previous version of APCC."
However, in looking at this page: https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-download-center/#download-basics
and the APCC Pro Manual on page 50 (which was released August 14, 2021), it states "If you are updating from v1.8.8.17 or an earlier version, you must uninstall any previous version of APCC in the Windows Control Panel. This is due to the new version of the Eltima Virtual
Ports Driver (V9) that will be installed."

I am currently on version 1.8.8.17 so it sounds like I need to uninstall APCC pro first? And settings will not be impacted and previous license information can still be recognized?
I assume the latest PDF of APCC is correct?

Todd


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Marcelo Figueroa
 

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 04:01 PM, Karen Christen wrote:

Hello Marcelo,

 

The one-year renewal subscription applies to all APCC licenses, whether included with a mount or purchased separately.  Does that answer your question?

Karen

Yes, thank you.


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

 

Jinyoung,

 

That is a good question. You would only pay the subscription price at that time and you would get all of the features in 1.13, including those from all previous years. There is no extra charge for skipping a year of subscriptions..

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jinyoung
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 6:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

 

Hi,

Just a quick question. Supposed that I renewed my subscription for the new 1.9. When 1.10 is announced right before expiration, I found new features are not useful for me. So decided not to renew the subscription. And two years later, when 1.13 is announced, I found the new features are what I was looking for. To activate new features in 1.13, I should pay for one subscription renewing (20% of full product price) only or there is an additional cost? 

Thanks,
Jinyoung


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

 

Here is some handy information regarding the process of purchasing the One-Year License Subscription.

  • Download and install APCC version 1.9.0.x (or later).
  • Launch APCC and click on Help>View/Update License Subscription.  Your current license date will display as well a s list of features that were either enabled or not based on your license date. 
  • Click the Purchase Subscription Renewal button. You will be connected to the appropriate APCC page of the DigitalRiver MyCommerce webpage. 
    IMPORTANT: The email address that you use for this purchase must be the same as the email address in your present APCC License Key. This validates that you presently have a license and are entitled to the renewal. If your address has changed, please update your email address at the following link:  https://apastrosoftware.com/APCC/LicenseHelp/index.html
  • Once you complete your purchase, your new license key will display. You will also receive an email with your license key.
  • Copy and paste it into the Update License Subscription window in APCC (the same window that has the Purchase Subscription Renewal button). 

For additional information, please refer to the Order and FAQ tabs of our APCC website.  

https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc

 

 

Clear Skies,

Marj Christen

Astro-Physics

11250 Forest Hills Road

Machesney Park, IL 61115

Phone: 815-282-1513

www.astro-physics.com

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marj Christen
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 3:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [Special] [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

 

APCC v1.9 is now available for download at the following links and from the APCC Download Center of our website.

https://www.apastrosoftware.com/apcc_download/ApccStandardLatest.exe
https://www.apastrosoftware.com/apcc_download/ApccProLatest.exe


This version has several long-awaited and significant new features for APCC Pro:

  •          APCC Pro - Declination-Arc tracking algorithm. This new algorithm is an alternative to the normal all sky tracking model that APCC Pro uses.
  •          APCC Pro - APPM can use ASTAP for plate-solving.
  •          APCC Pro - APPM can use NINA for camera control.
  •          APCC Pro - For third-party satellite trackers, real-time RA/Dec can be returned using the :GRGD# command.

Complete Version History with all updates and bug fixes for APCC Standard and PRO versions:

https://www.astro-physics.info/tech_support/software/apcc/apcc-version-history.pdf


Many thanks to Dale Ghent and Ray Gralak for working together to add NINA camera control to APCC. We know that many APCC users have been very interested in NINA to improve their workflow.

 

Since the introduction of APCC years ago, our website has stated that we intended to offer a subscription renewal option after the first year for approximately 20% of the price.  Many of you have been using APCC for years without any extra charge as we added new features and refined our pointing model.  Many features were suggested by users to streamline their workflow, provide additional information or control, integrate with other complimentary software and to safeguard your system.


The time has now come for us to implement our subscription renewal program so that we can continue to develop new features that our users have requested.


If the date of your APCC license key is August 1, 2020 or later, all of the new features outlined in the version history will be activated when you install v1.9.


If the date of your APCC license key is earlier than August 1, 2020, only the bug fixes and minor updates will be activated. To activate all the new major features, you will need to purchase a one-year renewal subscription. When that process is complete, you will receive a new license that includes the renewal date.


Major points:

  •         Renewal is optional. Your current version of APCC will continue to operate as it always has.
  •         Everyone is entitled to the bug fixes and minor updates of v1.9 and all new versions going forward regardless of whether you renew your subscription or not. We encourage you to keep your software up-to-date.
  •         The process for obtaining the one-year subscription takes you to the DigitalRiver MyCommerce e-commerce website. It is available to you at your convenience and does not require contact with our office.

You probably have many questions about this new process. We have anticipated many of these and encourage you to visit the Order and FAQ tabs of the APCC page on our website. Please take a few moments to read that first before your posting questions here.  

https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc


Thank you for supporting further development of APCC!!

--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Jinyoung
 

Hi,

Just a quick question. Supposed that I renewed my subscription for the new 1.9. When 1.10 is announced right before expiration, I found new features are not useful for me. So decided not to renew the subscription. And two years later, when 1.13 is announced, I found the new features are what I was looking for. To activate new features in 1.13, I should pay for one subscription renewing (20% of full product price) only or there is an additional cost? 

Thanks,
Jinyoung


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Bill Long
 

I use models religiously, so the new Dec Arc feature and ASTAP solving is too good to pass up on for me. I did get a free license with my Mach 2 purchase, which was newer than my old license was (my old one was from 2017) so I swapped to that for now and will renew it when the times comes.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of W Hilmo <y.groups@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 3:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
 
I apologize if I caused any confusion.

To be clear, this specific model is not "keep paying or lose access".? It's "we need to be paid for our efforts, and we would prefer to make it recurring and not tied to specific major releases".

I understand this model very well, as well as many pieces of software that use it.

As it happens, I have some experience with this model as implemented by a competitor to Astro-Physics.? I recently renewed one of these subscriptions.? In my case, the couple of features that I needed turned out to be not included in the subscription.? They wanted a significant additional cost - and *another* subscription - to get them.? My response was to start migrating away from that software.

While I don't expect that kind of problem with Astro-Physics, the subscription model, in all its forms, is a slippery slope across the industry.? So often, we lose things that end up being significant by looking the other way from a bunch of small things that, taken individually, are not necessarily significant.

My response to that is to stay off the slippery slope.? I've compromised a few times before, as above, and typically regret it.

The thing that I'm wrestling with today is that I have been looking forward to these new features.? I want very much to say "Just take my money!!!", but I don't want to feel like I've sold my soul to support this model.? I honestly don't know how it's going to go...

Finally, I realize that I'm being an idealist here, and am out on the fringe.? But my life has revolved around the software industry in some way or other for nearly 40 years, so I am passionate about it.? It would be far easier for me to just take out my credit card, than to write these two responses.

With that, I don't have anything more to say about it.? My intent was to make one response and be done.? I'm only making a second response to make it clear that I have not misinterpreted the model, and that pointing out other software that uses it does not endear me to it.

On 8/17/21 2:31 PM, Bill Long wrote:
This is an important distinction as it's not like Office 365, for example, where you lose access (other than read only) if your subscription expires. Voyager uses this same model that AP is implementing, as does SkyX, and if I'm not mistaken MaximDL.?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 1:48 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
?
You can continue to use the version that you have forever, without a subscription. All the new features that we developed took a lot of people a lot of effort over the last 2 years. As the state of the art of astronomical imaging advances, we are advancing with it. And it isn't cheap or easy keeping up with you guys. APCC Pro is now incredibly powerful and accurate, just ask George who spent 3 days last week imaging until dawn without ever turning on his guiding software. (hey George, when are you going to process those images?).

I've spent most clear nights this year working with both our 1600 and our Mach2 mounts doing imaging-testing with various scopes, and these new functions work great. Ray has worked tirelessly on developing this program and Marj and others have spent all their spare time bringing it all together. When i mean all their spare time, I mean that Marj worked all thru our vacation, and every day including Saturdays and Sundays for the last 2 years.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: W Hilmo <y.groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

This is a difficult response for me to write.

I've been eagerly waiting for some of the new features that are included in this release.? But I'm incredibly disappointed with the change to the business model.

Please understand that this has nothing whatsoever to do with cost.? If you put all that great work into new features, and then called it APCC Pro v2, and set a $200 upgrade cost for the major version change, I would have already purchased it by now.? I absolutely support the fact that the folks that write software should be compensated.? I, myself, have made a very good living writing software.? It's allowed me to own your fine products and to retire while I am young enough to enjoy the freedom.? As such, I am familiar with the economics of software development more than most.

My problem is that I am *very* strongly opposed to any subscription model for software that runs local to my machine.? Note that this is different than paying a subscription cost, say, for content as with a streaming service.? My feelings on this are strong enough, that there are other astronomy software packages that I will never be able to use because I will not support the model.? There are even products from the company that I used to work for, that I will never use for this reason.

Until today, I have had nothing but good feelings about all of my interactions with Astro-Physics and your products.? Now, every time that I run APCC Pro, I'm going to be reminded of this subscription model.

I am very sorry to send this response, but I have enough respect for Astro-Physics that I feel that I should make my feelings known, as it affects my position as a customer.? I do not have any expectation that you will change your model over my feedback, but I needed to get it out there.

Thanks for listening,
-Wade

On 8/17/21 1:02 PM, Marj Christen wrote:
APCC v1.9 is now available for download at the following links and from the APCC Download Center of our website.

This version has several long-awaited and significant new features for APCC Pro:
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - Declination-Arc tracking algorithm. This new algorithm is an alternative to the normal all sky tracking model that APCC Pro uses.
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - APPM can use ASTAP for plate-solving.
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - APPM can use NINA for camera control.
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - For third-party satellite trackers, real-time RA/Dec can be returned using the :GRGD# command.
Complete Version History with all updates and bug fixes for APCC Standard and PRO versions:

Many thanks to Dale Ghent and Ray Gralak for working together to add NINA camera control to APCC. We know that many APCC users have been very interested in NINA to improve their workflow.
?
Since the introduction of APCC years ago, our website has stated that we intended to offer a subscription renewal option after the first year for approximately 20% of the price. ?Many of you have been using APCC for years without any extra charge as we added new features and refined our pointing model.? Many features were suggested by users to streamline their workflow, provide additional information or control, integrate with other complimentary software and to safeguard your system.

The time has now come for us to implement our subscription renewal program so that we can continue to develop new features that our users have requested.

If the date of your APCC license key is August 1, 2020 or later, all of the new features outlined in the version history will be activated when you install v1.9.

If the date of your APCC license key is earlier than August 1, 2020, only the bug fixes and minor updates will be activated. To activate all the new major features, you will need to purchase a one-year renewal subscription. When that process is complete, you will receive a new license that includes the renewal date.

Major points:
  • ? ? ? ??Renewal is optional. Your current version of APCC will continue to operate as it always has.
  • ? ? ? ??Everyone is entitled to the bug fixes and minor updates of v1.9 and all new versions going forward regardless of whether you renew your subscription or not. We encourage you to keep your software up-to-date.
  • ? ? ? ? The process for obtaining the one-year subscription takes you to the DigitalRiver MyCommerce e-commerce website. It is available to you at your convenience and does not require contact with our office.
You probably have many questions about this new process. We have anticipated many of these and encourage you to visit the Order and FAQ tabs of the APCC page on our website. Please take a few moments to read that first before your posting questions here. ?

Thank you for supporting further development of APCC!!
--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

W Hilmo
 

I apologize if I caused any confusion.

To be clear, this specific model is not "keep paying or lose access".? It's "we need to be paid for our efforts, and we would prefer to make it recurring and not tied to specific major releases".

I understand this model very well, as well as many pieces of software that use it.

As it happens, I have some experience with this model as implemented by a competitor to Astro-Physics.? I recently renewed one of these subscriptions.? In my case, the couple of features that I needed turned out to be not included in the subscription.? They wanted a significant additional cost - and *another* subscription - to get them.? My response was to start migrating away from that software.

While I don't expect that kind of problem with Astro-Physics, the subscription model, in all its forms, is a slippery slope across the industry.? So often, we lose things that end up being significant by looking the other way from a bunch of small things that, taken individually, are not necessarily significant.

My response to that is to stay off the slippery slope.? I've compromised a few times before, as above, and typically regret it.

The thing that I'm wrestling with today is that I have been looking forward to these new features.? I want very much to say "Just take my money!!!", but I don't want to feel like I've sold my soul to support this model.? I honestly don't know how it's going to go...

Finally, I realize that I'm being an idealist here, and am out on the fringe.? But my life has revolved around the software industry in some way or other for nearly 40 years, so I am passionate about it.? It would be far easier for me to just take out my credit card, than to write these two responses.

With that, I don't have anything more to say about it.? My intent was to make one response and be done.? I'm only making a second response to make it clear that I have not misinterpreted the model, and that pointing out other software that uses it does not endear me to it.

On 8/17/21 2:31 PM, Bill Long wrote:
This is an important distinction as it's not like Office 365, for example, where you lose access (other than read only) if your subscription expires. Voyager uses this same model that AP is implementing, as does SkyX, and if I'm not mistaken MaximDL.?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 1:48 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
?
You can continue to use the version that you have forever, without a subscription. All the new features that we developed took a lot of people a lot of effort over the last 2 years. As the state of the art of astronomical imaging advances, we are advancing with it. And it isn't cheap or easy keeping up with you guys. APCC Pro is now incredibly powerful and accurate, just ask George who spent 3 days last week imaging until dawn without ever turning on his guiding software. (hey George, when are you going to process those images?).

I've spent most clear nights this year working with both our 1600 and our Mach2 mounts doing imaging-testing with various scopes, and these new functions work great. Ray has worked tirelessly on developing this program and Marj and others have spent all their spare time bringing it all together. When i mean all their spare time, I mean that Marj worked all thru our vacation, and every day including Saturdays and Sundays for the last 2 years.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: W Hilmo <y.groups@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 3:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

This is a difficult response for me to write.

I've been eagerly waiting for some of the new features that are included in this release.? But I'm incredibly disappointed with the change to the business model.

Please understand that this has nothing whatsoever to do with cost.? If you put all that great work into new features, and then called it APCC Pro v2, and set a $200 upgrade cost for the major version change, I would have already purchased it by now.? I absolutely support the fact that the folks that write software should be compensated.? I, myself, have made a very good living writing software.? It's allowed me to own your fine products and to retire while I am young enough to enjoy the freedom.? As such, I am familiar with the economics of software development more than most.

My problem is that I am *very* strongly opposed to any subscription model for software that runs local to my machine.? Note that this is different than paying a subscription cost, say, for content as with a streaming service.? My feelings on this are strong enough, that there are other astronomy software packages that I will never be able to use because I will not support the model.? There are even products from the company that I used to work for, that I will never use for this reason.

Until today, I have had nothing but good feelings about all of my interactions with Astro-Physics and your products.? Now, every time that I run APCC Pro, I'm going to be reminded of this subscription model.

I am very sorry to send this response, but I have enough respect for Astro-Physics that I feel that I should make my feelings known, as it affects my position as a customer.? I do not have any expectation that you will change your model over my feedback, but I needed to get it out there.

Thanks for listening,
-Wade

On 8/17/21 1:02 PM, Marj Christen wrote:
APCC v1.9 is now available for download at the following links and from the APCC Download Center of our website.

This version has several long-awaited and significant new features for APCC Pro:
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - Declination-Arc tracking algorithm. This new algorithm is an alternative to the normal all sky tracking model that APCC Pro uses.
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - APPM can use ASTAP for plate-solving.
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - APPM can use NINA for camera control.
  • ? ? ? ? ?APCC Pro - For third-party satellite trackers, real-time RA/Dec can be returned using the :GRGD# command.
Complete Version History with all updates and bug fixes for APCC Standard and PRO versions:

Many thanks to Dale Ghent and Ray Gralak for working together to add NINA camera control to APCC. We know that many APCC users have been very interested in NINA to improve their workflow.
?
Since the introduction of APCC years ago, our website has stated that we intended to offer a subscription renewal option after the first year for approximately 20% of the price. ?Many of you have been using APCC for years without any extra charge as we added new features and refined our pointing model.? Many features were suggested by users to streamline their workflow, provide additional information or control, integrate with other complimentary software and to safeguard your system.

The time has now come for us to implement our subscription renewal program so that we can continue to develop new features that our users have requested.

If the date of your APCC license key is August 1, 2020 or later, all of the new features outlined in the version history will be activated when you install v1.9.

If the date of your APCC license key is earlier than August 1, 2020, only the bug fixes and minor updates will be activated. To activate all the new major features, you will need to purchase a one-year renewal subscription. When that process is complete, you will receive a new license that includes the renewal date.

Major points:
  • ? ? ? ??Renewal is optional. Your current version of APCC will continue to operate as it always has.
  • ? ? ? ??Everyone is entitled to the bug fixes and minor updates of v1.9 and all new versions going forward regardless of whether you renew your subscription or not. We encourage you to keep your software up-to-date.
  • ? ? ? ? The process for obtaining the one-year subscription takes you to the DigitalRiver MyCommerce e-commerce website. It is available to you at your convenience and does not require contact with our office.
You probably have many questions about this new process. We have anticipated many of these and encourage you to visit the Order and FAQ tabs of the APCC page on our website. Please take a few moments to read that first before your posting questions here. ?

Thank you for supporting further development of APCC!!
--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Bill Long
 

Very impressive. I'll have to give it a go. 😁


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:41 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
 
Dec arc tracking works extremely well. With a good model I have tracked an image for 1 hour with round stars with my 160EDF refractor. at 1000mm focal length.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

I wonder how Dec Arc tracking compares?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:32 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
 
full sky modeling supersedes king rate, and be more accurate as well



On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 2:16 PM <skester@...> wrote:
I agree that this model seems a good compromise between cost and continued development.

Now new a functionality question. On a scale of 1 to 10, if full sky model tracking is a 10 and sidereal is a 1, where would using the new "King rate" fall?


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Roland Christen
 

King rate only compensates for RA, does nothing for Dec. It is an approximation at best, but may suffice for short unguided subs if polar alignment is spot on.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: poor grammar :)]
full sky modeling supersedes king rate, and is more accurate as well
 
 

On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 2:16 PM <skester@...> wrote:
I agree that this model seems a good compromise between cost and continued development.

Now new a functionality question. On a scale of 1 to 10, if full sky model tracking is a 10 and sidereal is a 1, where would using the new "King rate" fall?
 
 

 
--
Brian 
 
 
 
Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Roland Christen
 

Dec arc tracking works extremely well. With a good model I have tracked an image for 1 hour with round stars with my 160EDF refractor. at 1000mm focal length.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Aug 17, 2021 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

I wonder how Dec Arc tracking compares?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:32 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
 
full sky modeling supersedes king rate, and be more accurate as well



On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 2:16 PM <skester@...> wrote:
I agree that this model seems a good compromise between cost and continued development.

Now new a functionality question. On a scale of 1 to 10, if full sky model tracking is a 10 and sidereal is a 1, where would using the new "King rate" fall?


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC

Bill Long
 

I wonder how Dec Arc tracking compares?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 2:32 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC v1.9 and one-year renewal subscriptions #APCC
 
full sky modeling supersedes king rate, and be more accurate as well



On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 2:16 PM <skester@...> wrote:
I agree that this model seems a good compromise between cost and continued development.

Now new a functionality question. On a scale of 1 to 10, if full sky model tracking is a 10 and sidereal is a 1, where would using the new "King rate" fall?



--
Brian 



Brian Valente

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