Date   

Re: New AP1100AE, startup sanity check please

Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

I do the same, but I use an iPad as the iPhone screen is just too small. However, I have noticed that trying to slew the mount in this way can be tricky as the buttons sometimes don't respond unless you click and then drag the mouse pointer a bit.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of ap@CaptivePhotons.com
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New AP1100AE, startup sanity check please

Jeff wrote:

. I am not getting a handheld, but is there a mount control for a cell phone that might be useful since my computer display is in the house, not near the mount?
I run the Remote Desktop client on my phone when I need to do something with the mount outside away from the computer. For example polar alignment — I use sharpcap and need to see the “off by” numbers outside at the mount. So I just use RDClient and zoom in on that portion of the UI.
I've used that, as well as the Real VNC app on my cell, but the APCC screen as well as programs like NINA are not very optimized for tiny screens. If Covid ever wanes fully, I expect at some point to do some visual work with guests to view, and having a good cell phone app for manual control might be handy. Though that will always be a tiny part of what I do. Maybe I should just order a handheld if that becomes an issue. But if there was a good hand control app, I thought I would try it.

Thanks.

Linwood


Re: New AP1100AE, startup sanity check please

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Jeff wrote:

. I am not getting a handheld, but is there a mount control for a cell phone that might be useful since my computer display is in the house, not near the mount?
I run the Remote Desktop client on my phone when I need to do something with the mount outside away from the computer. For example polar alignment — I use sharpcap and need to see the “off by” numbers outside at the mount. So I just use RDClient and zoom in on that portion of the UI.
I've used that, as well as the Real VNC app on my cell, but the APCC screen as well as programs like NINA are not very optimized for tiny screens. If Covid ever wanes fully, I expect at some point to do some visual work with guests to view, and having a good cell phone app for manual control might be handy. Though that will always be a tiny part of what I do. Maybe I should just order a handheld if that becomes an issue. But if there was a good hand control app, I thought I would try it.

Thanks.

Linwood


Re: New AP1100AE, startup sanity check please

Jeffc
 

On Jul 26, 2021, at 8:37 AM, ap@captivephotons.com wrote:

. I am not getting a handheld, but is there a mount control for a cell phone that might be useful since my computer display is in the house, not near the mount?
I run the Remote Desktop client on my phone when I need to do something with the mount outside away from the computer. For example polar alignment — I use sharpcap and need to see the “off by” numbers outside at the mount. So I just use RDClient and zoom in on that portion of the UI.

Fwiw, I don’t have too much experience with the apps over WiFi - I’ve used SkySafari, but it just allows for pointing the mount. I’m not sure if the separate controlling app would confuse other apps (eg APCC) controlling the mount.

-jeff


Re: How to tighten Mach2 base

George
 

Yanzhe,

 

That is set to a foot/pound tightness.   I should be left as is.   If it is tightened too much, it will make azimuth adjustments difficult.   Instead, check that the both “captain’s wheels are snug on the polar forks.   Also there should be three knobs securing the Mach2 to the pier/tripod.   They must be at 120 degrees with respect to each other.   Hand tightening them will not give a secure mounting.   Use a hex key and give them an extra snugging.  

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of yanzhe liu
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 3:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] How to tighten Mach2 base

 

I came to notice some backlash when I moved my telescope back and forth. Initially I thought it must have been RA or DEC, but then I realized that it was the base.

 

I tried to tighten the bolt underneath the base, it got slightly better but did not fix the problem. The bolt is already very tight so I dont want to tighten it any further.

 

Does anyone see a similar issue? It probably wont affect the imaging but it may affect polar alignment if someone accidentally moves the mount between sessions.

 


New AP1100AE, startup sanity check please

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Excited my AP1100 due Wednesday, trying to read through all the documentation.  It's a little hard to sort through old vs new vs no longer true, I wonder if I could ask for a sanity check.  This is for imaging, no keypad, and a portable setup. 

The CP4 will connect first via USB via the FTDI driver, from where I can configure ethernet (or Wifi, in my case to turn off). 

Afterwards the application connection will go (Ascom 6.5SP1 assumed): 

CP4 -> APCC -> (Virtual ports) -> Ascom V2 -> third party software as needed

APCC Pro now contains the AE stuff so the variously mentioned standalone utility is not needed. 

The manual indicates APCC is not needed you can go from the Ascom driver to the mount, but it doesn't really explain why one would do that (or not).  I'm assuming since 99% of what I read mentions APCC that one should use that in the middle. 

Where I am struggling a bit is finding where exceptions are for AE use.  My GUESS is:

- Manually placing in a park position to register a location during initialization is not needed?  It should just know?

- No PE curve is needed, and PE correction should be turned off?   Or is that magic when it sees encoders?

- Is there any special precautions to protect them, e.g. do all the clutch/gear mesh instructions related to balance apply equally? 

- Is there any check/sync/calibration needed?

Maybe there's an AE document, but I could not find one on the Technical Support page. 

Finally, there's mention of several Apple cell phone programs one can use, but I did not find any Android ones (for mount control, I found the polar align). I am not getting a handheld, but is there a mount control for a cell phone that might be useful since my computer display is in the house, not near the mount?

Some of this may become obvious when I actually start setting it up, but especially the Encoder aspect worries me, since I found so little guidance in what I have read so far. 

Corrections and pointers welcomed.

Oh... and is there an estimate of how long the weather stays bad after one receives a new mount?  :) 

Linwood



Re: The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

Robert Chozick
 

Great image Glenn. 

You now have peaked my interest in this star removal process. I will have to play with it.   

Does it place the stars into a separate Image. I am wondering if I can move that star image into Photoshop.  I use Pixinsight for a few processes but do most of my processing in Photoshop.   I usually only use dynamic background extraction and Photometric Color Calibration. For images at my new dark sky site I found I don’t even need DBE anymore. 

Robert 


On Jul 24, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Glenn <public@...> wrote:

Hi gang,

I had a stretch of good weather recently and was able to capture the elephant trunk with narrowband filters over several nights. This is one of three images I was able to do during the first outing with my new 10-inch Newtonian scope. I was not sure if my Mach1 would be able to handle such a heavy and long scope, but it hardly seemed to notice. It is a testament to A-P mount design. 

For higher resolution and details, please check my AstroBin page. Thanks for looking!

Glenn
<IC1396 elephant final 2.jpeg>


Re: The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

Robert Chozick
 

Great image Glenn. 

You now have peaked my interest in this star removal process. I will have to play with it.   

Does it place the stars into a separate Image. I am wondering if I can move that star image into Photoshop.  I use Pixinsight for a few processes but do most of my processing in Photoshop.   I usually only use dynamic background extraction and Photometric Color Calibration. For images at my new dark sky site I found I don’t even need DBE anymore. 

Robert 


On Jul 24, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Glenn <public@...> wrote:

Hi gang,

I had a stretch of good weather recently and was able to capture the elephant trunk with narrowband filters over several nights. This is one of three images I was able to do during the first outing with my new 10-inch Newtonian scope. I was not sure if my Mach1 would be able to handle such a heavy and long scope, but it hardly seemed to notice. It is a testament to A-P mount design. 

For higher resolution and details, please check my AstroBin page. Thanks for looking!

Glenn
<IC1396 elephant final 2.jpeg>


Re: Tool for saddle clamping

George
 

Guys,

 

Remember, these are not the lug nuts on your car wheels!

 

You do not have to tighten them more than hand tight.   If you’re using a 16” to 20” CDK, then you’d be using one of our larger dovetail saddles and it allows use of a hex key.  

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 6:50 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

It wouldn't be too hard to CAD-up and 3D-print a slip-over knob that would allow for some additional hand force to remove a stuck knob that doesn't have the Allen key socket.

 

AP's dovetail lock design is the best of any I have ever seen. Angled brass pin with force being applied to a small area on the dovetail bar. Allowing enough targeted force to really clamp down, but without damaging or distorting the dovetail bar. Dovetail brackets that spread the force out along a longer clamp area or worst-of-all, along the entire length of the side of the bracket, aren't nearly as secure and are at much greater risk of a dovetail bar sliding unexpectedly in the bracket, and inviting disaster.

 

"Slip Sliding Away..."


"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

 

-Christopher Erickson

Observatory Engineer

Summit Kinetics

Waikoloa, Hawaii

 

 

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 12:53 PM Woody Schlom <woody_is@...> wrote:

A small strap-wrench would probably also work.  They have lots of leverage and the rubber/plastic parts don’t mar the aluminum.

 

But I’m confused.  All my AP knobs have a hex socket in the middle of the knob.  That said, all mine are at least 6 years old.  So maybe AP has recently changed to the solid knobs with no hex socket in the middle.  Too bad.  Although I’ve NEVER needed to tighten anything that tight.  But I can see perhaps needing the hex key to loosen a stuck or seized knob.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Tool for saddle clamping

 

Hi Gert

Out of curiosity what is the part number of your dovetail plate ? The knobs look like those on my DOVE15 which has no hex head bolts in the clamping knobs either.

I have had pretty good luck using a jar lid gripper on these knobs. They are simple, cheap, and effective. You can find them in the kitchen section of most department stores (e.g. Wal-Mart). I have noticed something interesting about these grippers though. It seems that after a period of time they will lose their "grippiness" and you will have to replace it.

Mike


Re: The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

Karen Christen
 

That’s a really pleasing image, Glenn.  Thanks for sharing it with us.

Karen

AP

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Glenn
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2021 1:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

 

Hi gang,

I had a stretch of good weather recently and was able to capture the elephant trunk with narrowband filters over several nights. This is one of three images I was able to do during the first outing with my new 10-inch Newtonian scope. I was not sure if my Mach1 would be able to handle such a heavy and long scope, but it hardly seemed to notice. It is a testament to A-P mount design. 

For higher resolution and details, please check my AstroBin page. Thanks for looking!

Glenn


--
Karen Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?

Bill Long
 

We had mild wind here about 5-6MPH and so I wanted to show that as well. No impact at all to subs, and the Mach 2 handled it fine. 






From: Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 8:47 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?
 
Here are some sample subs:


I took the highest and lowest FWHM from the data set and shared them. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:12 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?
 
Circling back on this as I finally got to test this out. I put my 12.5" AGO iDK, Moonlight Nitecrawler, FLI Proline 16803, CFW 5-7, Sagitta OAG, and Ultrastar guide camera on the Mach 2. Balancing the load was pretty easy to do, and I had just enough weights on hand for the job. This is pretty much at capacity for the mount based on the specifications. Might even be a tad over. 😁

Performance was stellar. I made a 98pt model in APPM, and used 5 second guide exposures. I took 5 hours worth of 20 minute HA subs and not a single one had any trailing at all. Very nice tight round stars in all of the images. Guiding was about 0.2-0.35" range throughout the night. Graph picture below.

I'll be getting some more data over the next few nights. I'll share some subs later this evening when I'm back on the Astro PC.

Conclusion: Mach 2 is a beastly mount that easily handled this challenge and passed with flying colors. Well done AP!

image/png


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 5:44 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?
 
Well, I've never tried that scope, but I have loaded my Mach2 to the limit and imaged/guided just fine. Balance is critical and is easy to do.

Weight makes for larger moment, which makes the mount slower to respond to external disturbance, like wind. If your scope is open tube with no shroud, wind will not be a problem.

I will be loading my Mach2 with a 12" F8 carbon fiber Maksutov astrograph in the next couple days. Weight is about the same as your system. I expect that it will handle it fine and will post some guiding results. Will be getting ready for galaxy season.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups. io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Apr 23, 2021 7:07 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?

What say ye?


46lbs, but would need to add focuser (8lbs), TCS System (1lb), and camera/accessories (call these 5 lbs). The OTA is about 18" tall (maybe 17.5" but lets call it 18") so this puts me at 18" and 60 lbs.  This puts me right on the yellow on the Mach 2 graph AP has. Length of everything, in focus with camera gear on would be about 45". 

Seems right at the limits, but likely safe. Any ideas on this from AP or others?

-Bill 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?

Bill Long
 

Here are some sample subs:


I took the highest and lowest FWHM from the data set and shared them. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:12 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?
 
Circling back on this as I finally got to test this out. I put my 12.5" AGO iDK, Moonlight Nitecrawler, FLI Proline 16803, CFW 5-7, Sagitta OAG, and Ultrastar guide camera on the Mach 2. Balancing the load was pretty easy to do, and I had just enough weights on hand for the job. This is pretty much at capacity for the mount based on the specifications. Might even be a tad over. 😁

Performance was stellar. I made a 98pt model in APPM, and used 5 second guide exposures. I took 5 hours worth of 20 minute HA subs and not a single one had any trailing at all. Very nice tight round stars in all of the images. Guiding was about 0.2-0.35" range throughout the night. Graph picture below.

I'll be getting some more data over the next few nights. I'll share some subs later this evening when I'm back on the Astro PC.

Conclusion: Mach 2 is a beastly mount that easily handled this challenge and passed with flying colors. Well done AP!

image/png


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 5:44 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?
 
Well, I've never tried that scope, but I have loaded my Mach2 to the limit and imaged/guided just fine. Balance is critical and is easy to do.

Weight makes for larger moment, which makes the mount slower to respond to external disturbance, like wind. If your scope is open tube with no shroud, wind will not be a problem.

I will be loading my Mach2 with a 12" F8 carbon fiber Maksutov astrograph in the next couple days. Weight is about the same as your system. I expect that it will handle it fine and will post some guiding results. Will be getting ready for galaxy season.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups. io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Apr 23, 2021 7:07 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?

What say ye?


46lbs, but would need to add focuser (8lbs), TCS System (1lb), and camera/accessories (call these 5 lbs). The OTA is about 18" tall (maybe 17.5" but lets call it 18") so this puts me at 18" and 60 lbs.  This puts me right on the yellow on the Mach 2 graph AP has. Length of everything, in focus with camera gear on would be about 45". 

Seems right at the limits, but likely safe. Any ideas on this from AP or others?

-Bill 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


M27 OSC and Mono combined

Robert Chozick
 

I was working on combining data from the ZWO 2600 color and 2600 mono cameras for the first time.  I had some equipment problems and the sky was not great but I did manage to get something from both cameras to combine.  I threw out a lot of subs and the OIII and Ha couldn’t be used to the fullest as they looked pretty bad.  I just used some of the Ha and OIII in the nebula itself and not in the background or stars.   I at least found out my adapters used for the color without the filter wheel and the mono with the filter wheel did get the same size image with the AP telecompressor and my RC scope.  I was worried they would not match.


https://pbase.com/rchozick/image/171822160

Robert


How to tighten Mach2 base

yanzhe liu
 

I came to notice some backlash when I moved my telescope back and forth. Initially I thought it must have been RA or DEC, but then I realized that it was the base.

I tried to tighten the bolt underneath the base, it got slightly better but did not fix the problem. The bolt is already very tight so I dont want to tighten it any further.

Does anyone see a similar issue? It probably wont affect the imaging but it may affect polar alignment if someone accidentally moves the mount between sessions.

IMG_3107.jpg


Re: Tool for saddle clamping

M Hambrick
 

I think I see a trend here. The older dovetails (DOVE15 and DOVELM2) use the brass locking pins that Chris mentioned, and they also have plain knobs without the hex head assist feature. The newer designs of dovetail plates (DOVELM162 for example) have the wide clamps instead of locking pins and they all come with knobs that have the hex head feature.

I have a DOVELM162, and normally I will only use the little jar gripper to tighten the knobs, and if necessary I will use a hex key to break the clamps loose when I take everything down. Be careful using a hex key to tighten these knobs. I have seen several posts on the forum where members said they broke the hex head loose in the clamp from overtightening.

I do like the concept of the ADM Rosette Knob Tool though. I am going to look into getting one.

Mike


Re: The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

M Hambrick
 

Thanks Glenn and Steve. I will definitely check those out.

Mike


Re: Tool for saddle clamping

weems@...
 

I have the ADM Rosette Knob Tool, which I use with their TGAD that enables me to collimate my 6" f9 with the C14 on my tandem setup. Unfortunately, there is one knob on the TGAD that is blocked by the saddle, so I have to reach in with an adjustable wrench to turn it (which mars it up). Before I had the tool, I would turn the other knobs using the wrench and a piece of cloth wrapped around them, which gripped well enough without marring. 

Another place where AP knobs lack the hex key insert is the standard azimuth adjusters for the 900 mount, where it would be useful to have a little more leverage for finer movements. I'm still looking for one of the heavy-duty adjusters, which addressed the problem with larger knobs. The wrench/cloth technique doesn't help in that case, since it doesn't really allow for fine control.

Chip


Re: Tool for saddle clamping

drgert1
 

Hello Mike,

The part is from 2005. At th time it was called DOVELM2. Maybe AP has replacement knobs? My main issue is not tightening the knobs, but loosening after an observing sessions (maybe late at night). I have seen temperature changes making the knobs tighter.

Cheers,
Gert


Re: Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?

Bill Long
 

Circling back on this as I finally got to test this out. I put my 12.5" AGO iDK, Moonlight Nitecrawler, FLI Proline 16803, CFW 5-7, Sagitta OAG, and Ultrastar guide camera on the Mach 2. Balancing the load was pretty easy to do, and I had just enough weights on hand for the job. This is pretty much at capacity for the mount based on the specifications. Might even be a tad over. 😁

Performance was stellar. I made a 98pt model in APPM, and used 5 second guide exposures. I took 5 hours worth of 20 minute HA subs and not a single one had any trailing at all. Very nice tight round stars in all of the images. Guiding was about 0.2-0.35" range throughout the night. Graph picture below.

I'll be getting some more data over the next few nights. I'll share some subs later this evening when I'm back on the Astro PC.

Conclusion: Mach 2 is a beastly mount that easily handled this challenge and passed with flying colors. Well done AP!

image/png


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 5:44 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?
 
Well, I've never tried that scope, but I have loaded my Mach2 to the limit and imaged/guided just fine. Balance is critical and is easy to do.

Weight makes for larger moment, which makes the mount slower to respond to external disturbance, like wind. If your scope is open tube with no shroud, wind will not be a problem.

I will be loading my Mach2 with a 12" F8 carbon fiber Maksutov astrograph in the next couple days. Weight is about the same as your system. I expect that it will handle it fine and will post some guiding results. Will be getting ready for galaxy season.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: AP-GTO Groups. io <ap-gto@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Apr 23, 2021 7:07 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach 2 + 12.5" AGO iDK?

What say ye?


46lbs, but would need to add focuser (8lbs), TCS System (1lb), and camera/accessories (call these 5 lbs). The OTA is about 18" tall (maybe 17.5" but lets call it 18") so this puts me at 18" and 60 lbs.  This puts me right on the yellow on the Mach 2 graph AP has. Length of everything, in focus with camera gear on would be about 45". 

Seems right at the limits, but likely safe. Any ideas on this from AP or others?

-Bill 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

Glenn
 

Steve beat me to it. Adam has two outstanding video series: the Fundamentals series for beginner/intermediate and Horizons for more advanced users. I subscribe to both and consider my subscriptions to be some of the best money I've spent in this hobby. When you consider how much an in-person course costs, the price of his videos is a bargain. He must have more than a hundred hours of video in his two offerings. What I love about his instruction is that he does not only teach the how but the why. He does not give the cookbook approach to processing. Check it out!

https://adamblockstudios.com/categories/PixInsight

Best, 

Glenn


Re: The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

Steve Reilly
 

Mike you may want to look at Adam Block’s series on image processing. It’s extensive and covers a vast majority of processes and is a subscription based service backed with an active forum.

 

-Steve

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of M Hambrick
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2021 8:57 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] The Elephant Trunk Nebula in the Hubble palette

 

Thanks for sharing your techniques Glen.

I wouldn't describe myself as a beginner, but my processing techniques are nowhere near as sophisticated as yours. I have been doing all of my processing using MaxIm DL Pro, but your comments along with tips I have gotten from others have me convinced that I need to investigate some of the other processing software.

Of course having the software is only the beginning. Then I have to learn how to use it. Even with MaxIm DL I have not come close to exploiting all of the capabilities that it has. It would really be great if I could find an image processing course or seminar to attend at NEAF or one of the other astronomy conferences.

Mike

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