Date   

Re: Imaging on grass

Harley Davidson
 

That's a fine job on the wheely bar Tom! Beautiful workmanship.

tony

On 7/11/2021 4:16 PM, Tom Blahovici wrote:
The "wheely bar" is custom made by myself. This was the first time using it.
In my case, the wife won't allow any permanent pads unless they are just a couple of inches in diameter.  Which I guess is a possibility.
Tom


Re: Imaging on grass

Dale Ghent
 

How bad this gets for any one person depends on ther soil type and moisture and all that. I use pavers sunk into the ground but major shifts aren't really anything noticeable with my clay soils. I'll start the evening guiding around 0.3" and it'll get to about 0.4 or 0.5". I'll touch up the PA every night, though. It's usually off by around 5-10" over the course of a day or two. I PA using sharpcap through my main camera.

On Jul 11, 2021, at 13:01, Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@videotron.ca> wrote:

Being in Canada, last night would have been a good night to take this literally....However...
Last night I tried out my portable "wheely bar" setup for my FSQ106 and AP600 GTO mount. I used 1 foot by 1 foot, 2 inch thick concrete blocks under the leveling screws and did a polar alignment with the polar scope in the AP600.
My first image, 30 minutes O3 on NGC7000 was amazing. The tracking, was 0.25" with pretty well no corrections at all. Granted the seeing was really special last night, very rare.
My imaging uses Voyager and I typically focus each 30 minutes where the scope does a goto to a nearby star in the Voyager database and then continues imaging.
After the first image I started to get large gradual swings in the dec and RA, up to 4" of arc errors after which Voyager would abort and start over. After two or so tries I then managed to get another nice sub. Likewise for the third sub. After this, I was no longer really successful.
So I took a look at the polar alignment through the polar scope and polaris had moved quite a lot. Probably a good 1/8 to 1/4 of the field of view.
So my thinking is that as the night progressed, and the scope changed position, the blocks started to shift. This happened during the exposures.
So, how do you image on grass? Is 30 minute subs out of the question? Do you polar align frequently?
Thanks for any insight.
Tom

<wheely.jpg>


Re: Imaging on grass

Tom Blahovici
 

The "wheely bar" is custom made by myself. This was the first time using it.
In my case, the wife won't allow any permanent pads unless they are just a couple of inches in diameter.  Which I guess is a possibility.
Tom


Re: Imaging on grass

Don Anderson
 

Hi Tom I'm in Calgary and image on grass as well with my AP900GOTO and a Televue NP127is on an AP portable pier. I tried cement blocks as well but found they move too much as the weight of my rig compresses the grass under the blocks. I have since gone to  three steel plates with two 8" pieces of rebar rod welded to the bottom of each plate. I pound these into the ground and leave them there. As the grass dies under them, they sink down to the dirt and are reasonably, but not totally, stable. I minimize movement by setting up my rig several hours before imaging which gives the plates a chance to settle in a stable position. This works ok since I image at between 525 and 660mm f/l. This wouldn't be very satisfactory at longer f/l. My next thought is to set up a permanent pier to which I would install my rig every time I image or drill three 6" holes 4' deep and pour concrete pads level with the ground. 
Hope this helps.
Attached is a pic of my setup.

Don Anderson


On Sunday, July 11, 2021, 11:01:26 a.m. MDT, Tom Blahovici <tom.va2fsq@...> wrote:


Being in Canada, last night would have been a good night to take this literally....However...
Last night I tried out my portable "wheely bar" setup for my FSQ106 and AP600 GTO mount.  I used 1 foot by 1 foot, 2 inch thick concrete blocks under the leveling screws and did a polar alignment with the polar scope in the AP600.
My first image, 30 minutes O3 on NGC7000 was amazing.  The tracking, was 0.25" with pretty well no corrections at all. Granted the seeing was really special last night, very rare.
My imaging uses Voyager and I typically focus each 30 minutes where the scope does a goto to a nearby star in the Voyager database and then continues imaging.
After the first image I started to get large gradual swings in the dec and RA, up to 4" of arc errors after which Voyager would abort and start over. After two or so tries I then managed to get another nice sub.  Likewise for the third sub.  After this, I was no longer really successful.
So I took a look at the polar alignment through the polar scope and polaris had moved quite a lot. Probably a good 1/8 to 1/4 of the field of view.
So my thinking is that as the night progressed, and the scope changed position, the blocks started to shift.  This happened during the exposures.
So, how do you image on grass?  Is 30 minute subs out of the question?  Do you polar align frequently?
Thanks for any insight.
Tom


Re: Imaging on grass

Worsel
 

David

There are several manufacturers.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=wheely+bar+telescope

One can also DIY with wood, L-shaped steel, and caster wheels.


Bryan


Re: Imaging on grass

Christopher Erickson
 

When I lived up in Alaska I put a steel pier into the ground and set it with concrete. I took rhe scope and mount off of the pier when I wasn't using it and put a rubber canvas kayak bag over the pier.

When I moved from Alaska to Hawaii, I made a plant hanger head for the steel pier.

Worked great.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   


On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 10:18 AM davidcfinch9 via groups.io <DF121819=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Where did you get the “wheely bar” or did you custom make it?

David

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of ap@...
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 1:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Imaging on grass

 

  • So, how do you image on grass?  Is 30 minute subs out of the question?  Do you polar align frequently?

 

I dug holes, filled with sand, packed, put in gravel and packed it, and put pavers down in three spots at grade level (so the landscapers can just move over them).  That way the foundation doesn’t have to be taken up and put back, so any settling happens and mostly stops.

 

Obviously ground conditions and climate (rain and/or freezing) may still be an issue, but the better bed under the pavers the more stable they will be.

 

Main downside is it makes it hard to pick your spot for wind.

 


Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Possibly a drive backup program?
Maybe, but it was locked for several *hours*!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Christopher Erickson
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:30 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Possibly a drive backup program?



-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com


On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 12:25 PM Chris White <chris.white@whitephotogallery.com> wrote:


On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:


I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory.
So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?

Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray. I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I
can outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports,
Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem?







Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem?
Chris, sorry, but there is no way to tell which application locked APCC's settings file. If it happens again you might be able to use one of the methods mentioned here:

https://www.winhelponline.com/blog/find-process-locked-file-openfiles-utility/

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 12:25 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:


I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the
question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?

Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray. I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I can
outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports,
Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem?






Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Christopher Erickson
 

Possibly a drive backup program?


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 12:25 PM Chris White <chris.white@...> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?
Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray.  I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I can outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports, Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem? 





Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Chris White
 

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?
Interesting, and thanks for looking Ray.  I'm not sure how to know what application might have done it, but I can outline what software I am using.

APCC Pro
PHD2 (Beta with multistar guiding)
Voyager
Pegasus Power Advance with humidity and temp (which is connected to APCC Pro)
Hallo Northern Sky

As far as I know the only programs interfacing with APCC would be Voyager and PHD through virtual ports, Pegasus Advance and I am connected to an online source for barometric pressure).

Do you have any suggestions on how to determine what might have caused the problem? 





Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Chris,

Thanks for the logs. I think I see the problem.

At around 3:40 am another process had APCC's settings file (settings.apcc) locked, and APCC started throwing exceptions. There were 2600+ exceptions, and probably explains why your settings were corrupted/lost.

338865 2021-07-11 03:40:49.861: Exception, XMLProxy, Exception reading XML data for file: C:\ProgramData\Astro-Physics\APCC\Settings.apcc -- The process cannot access the file 'C:\ProgramData\Astro-Physics\APCC\Settings.apcc' because it is being used by another process.

I suspect each of these exceptions was causing a memory leak which eventually exhausted memory. So, the question is, do you know what other application might have locked settings.apcc?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 7:30 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 09:56 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:


Hi Chris,

It looks like you deleted your log file, so a couple of questions:

* Do you recall which APCC windows you had open?
* How long had APCC been running?

-Ray

Good morning Ray. Here is the correct link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jjauxufz4jri67c/AABdWOoYux0muL49Q01GCcava?dl=0


Re: Imaging on grass

davidcfinch9
 

Where did you get the “wheely bar” or did you custom make it?

David

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of ap@...
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 1:10 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Imaging on grass

 

  • So, how do you image on grass?  Is 30 minute subs out of the question?  Do you polar align frequently?

 

I dug holes, filled with sand, packed, put in gravel and packed it, and put pavers down in three spots at grade level (so the landscapers can just move over them).  That way the foundation doesn’t have to be taken up and put back, so any settling happens and mostly stops.

 

Obviously ground conditions and climate (rain and/or freezing) may still be an issue, but the better bed under the pavers the more stable they will be.

 

Main downside is it makes it hard to pick your spot for wind.

 


Re: Imaging on grass

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

  • So, how do you image on grass?  Is 30 minute subs out of the question?  Do you polar align frequently?

 

I dug holes, filled with sand, packed, put in gravel and packed it, and put pavers down in three spots at grade level (so the landscapers can just move over them).  That way the foundation doesn’t have to be taken up and put back, so any settling happens and mostly stops.

 

Obviously ground conditions and climate (rain and/or freezing) may still be an issue, but the better bed under the pavers the more stable they will be.

 

Main downside is it makes it hard to pick your spot for wind.

 


Imaging on grass

Tom Blahovici
 

Being in Canada, last night would have been a good night to take this literally....However...
Last night I tried out my portable "wheely bar" setup for my FSQ106 and AP600 GTO mount.  I used 1 foot by 1 foot, 2 inch thick concrete blocks under the leveling screws and did a polar alignment with the polar scope in the AP600.
My first image, 30 minutes O3 on NGC7000 was amazing.  The tracking, was 0.25" with pretty well no corrections at all. Granted the seeing was really special last night, very rare.
My imaging uses Voyager and I typically focus each 30 minutes where the scope does a goto to a nearby star in the Voyager database and then continues imaging.
After the first image I started to get large gradual swings in the dec and RA, up to 4" of arc errors after which Voyager would abort and start over. After two or so tries I then managed to get another nice sub.  Likewise for the third sub.  After this, I was no longer really successful.
So I took a look at the polar alignment through the polar scope and polaris had moved quite a lot. Probably a good 1/8 to 1/4 of the field of view.
So my thinking is that as the night progressed, and the scope changed position, the blocks started to shift.  This happened during the exposures.
So, how do you image on grass?  Is 30 minute subs out of the question?  Do you polar align frequently?
Thanks for any insight.
Tom


Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Eric Claeys
 

Out of memory errors don't necessarily mean the PC is out of memory since it will use swap when the total memory in use is more than the physical memory in the PC.

Often that error means the application has run out of memory space.  A 32-bit application like APCC can use up to 4 GB, but IIRC only gets 3 GB by default.  If APCC has a major memory leak issue, it could run out of memory and give that error.


Re: Computer max ambient temperature

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Ambient temperature is relevant but ambient tolerance will vary widely depending on the computer design and airflow over it.  The better measure is to find out how to read its internal temperatures (it may have many), find out their design limits, subtract 10C or so, and then watch at what ambient you get there as ambient rises.  That will give you a much better feel for ambient limits.

 

A well designed computer with good cooling could easily tolerate 20-30C higher ambient than a mediocre design with lots of dust inside and poor airflow in general.

 

Lots of programs (example HWINFO64 on windows) will search out and report sensors inside the computer.  Google the particular chip and motherboard to find reasonable limits.  And it’s often not the CPU that is the critical factor, since those often slow down if they over heat, it’s sometimes I/O or memory related sensors, or (unlikely in Astro but) also GPU.

 

Laptops are often the worst performers, as they are designed to be razor thin and have lousy airflow.  Fanless units are nice and quiet but obviously not as resilient as ambient rises.


Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Chris White
 

On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 09:56 AM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Hi Chris,

It looks like you deleted your log file, so a couple of questions:

* Do you recall which APCC windows you had open?
* How long had APCC been running?

-Ray
Good morning Ray.  Here is the correct link:  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jjauxufz4jri67c/AABdWOoYux0muL49Q01GCcava?dl=0


Re: Computer max ambient temperature

Peter Bresler
 

I just lost Kingdel computer which was sitting out in 95 degree sun for a while....not sure if that is what caused it though. Its on the way to China.


Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Chris,

It looks like you deleted your log file, so a couple of questions:

* Do you recall which APCC windows you had open?
* How long had APCC been running?

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris White
Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2021 4:44 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

I awoke this morning to find my capture software and APCC Pro had closed. Neither was frozen or anything, just
the apps were not active. PHD2, Pegasus Power Box, Planetary, etc... were all open, so the computer didnt do an
update or anything.

When I opened APCC Pro this morning all settings had reverted back to the factory settings. All of my mount info,
horizon info, modeling etc is gone. I know some of this is recoverable as the profiles for horzon/model are saved.

I have no idea what went wrong. I've attached the log so maybe someone can help me out, or Ray can take a look.
I'm hoping there is a way to reload all of my APCC Pro settings as I dont want to have to go through all that setup
again. Also, hoping to understand what went wrong and why the program crashed in the first place.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q801oczubf90h3t/APCC-2021-05-10-183306.txt?dl=0

Thank you,


Re: APCC Pro appears to have crashed and all settings reverted back to factory settings #APCC

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Chris,
 
    You should at least run Win-10-> Admin Tools-> Windows Memory Diagnostic, and not just the default quick 2 minute one, but specify several more passes, run all day if necessary, according to your time or preference. In an 8-GB system,  just takes one of the two memory modules to suddenly become inaccessible.
 
    I’m not an an expert, but experienced some very difficult issues recently, with my M2 slot type,  SSD.
    That other culprit is any M2-interfaced  SSD drive’s operating temperature. They run much hotter, especially SAMSUNG’s,  than the average standard SATA interfaced hard drive  bay replacement SSD, and their temperatures can quickly & easily hit 65 C or more.
 
    I think 75C is their DRAM’s,  NAND gates protective shutdown, for any M2 type, so maybe its final stage protection is to shut down the PC rather than just the M2-SSD. They normally “throttle” their own drive access speed, gradually,  as their temperature rises. Maybe the final critical temps cause a full “system protective” shutdown. If that happened and it was the main storage C-Drive, then there would be a shutdown as the final throttle stage. However, since your “dedicated imaging drive”,  is a secondary storage M2, a total system crash “may not” happen.
 
   I had that problem this past January, on my ASUS motherboard’s M2 slot,  when I attached a new  2-TB, “SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS (M2) SSD” main drive (with its passive heat sink), until I placed a dedicated 4” fan, blowing directly on it, inside my desktop case. Even a Gaming type laptop, with some cooler running  M2-SSD’s,  would crash quicker, due to  small fan(s) in a confined space.  However, less powerful one’s like WD versions, run somewhat cooler, even in a laptop.
 
    Just speculating.
Joe Z.

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