Date   

Re: Model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Brent,

Oh no... That's not good (at least for me). Is there a technical reason for that?
When caching is off, you are sending commands directly to the mount and not interpreted by APCC.

Does that mean that Horizons does not use the modelling either?
Horizons uses APCC modeling in APCC Pro. I previously said Horizons turns off caching, but that was incorrect. I was thinking of APPM.

The move rates sent by Horizons are real-time calculated from the NASA data and sent to the mount in real-time. So although RA/Dec read backs are the cached values, the open-loop move commands happen in real-time. And, the only time you will likely see a delay in RA/Dec is with a fast-moving object, but that will also happen in any polled system (e.g, a planetarium program).

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brent Boshart
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2021 1:32 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?

Oh no... That's not good (at least for me). Is there a technical reason for that? Does that mean that Horizons
does not use the modelling either?


Re: Need help figuring out focal length for Stowaway and AP130EDFGT / Field Flattener and more for inputting into ASIAir Pro

M Hambrick
 

If you have MaxIm DL you can also use PinPoint Astrometry to do your plate solve. You can use it with the GSC-1.1 catalog which can be downloaded free. 

You will need to enter the approximate RA and Dec at the center of the image and an image scale. The first time I used it to solve an image from my Stowaway I had entered the incorrect image scale, and it solved it very quickly anyway. When I noticed that PinPoint kept coming back with a different image scale on my Stowaway images, I realized that I had calculated the original image scale using the wrong focal length. I was using the native focal length of 612 mm, but since I have the 92FF flattener in my imaging train, I should have been using a focal length of 644 mm per the 92FF specifications.

Mike


Re: Model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?

Brent Boshart
 

Oh no...  That's not good (at least for me).  Is there a technical reason for that?  Does that mean that Horizons does not use the modelling either?  


Re: Model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Brent,

Is it possible to get model corrected coordinates through the command protocol? See the example below. If I turn
"Point Corr" off in APCC then the coordinates match.
If you have RA/Dec caching disabled, you are going to get the mount's direct coordinates. With caching enabled, you will get the model-corrected coordinates.

-Rau

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brent Boshart
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 1:53 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?

Is it possible to get model corrected coordinates through the command protocol? See the example below. If I turn
"Point Corr" off in APCC then the coordinates match.



Re: Need help figuring out focal length for Stowaway and AP130EDFGT / Field Flattener and more for inputting into ASIAir Pro

Kenneth Tan
 

Put the focal length that is stated in the specs of the scope. Then shoot and do a plate solve in asi air. It will then update the correct focal length into the field after sync to mount

On Wed, 26 May 2021 at 23:57, Denice Woody <astrowoody@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

I am running into problems figuring out the focal length to use with my new ZWO ASIAir Pro and ZWO ASI071 MC Pro camera and AP Stowaway.  I have tried inputting 0 to have the ASIAir Pro calculate it but it comes up with 648 or 649, and I'm not sure it takes into account the field flattener (or the Precise Parts Adapter).  I haven't used the Pro with the AP130 Gran Turismo yet since I'm having so much trouble.  And I have tried uploading an image from the first night where things worked to Astrometry.net to calculate but it's going on 12 hrs processing/queued!  Unfortunately I didn't write the focal length down for reference later that first night.  So my plate solves are a crap shoot and I get told my FOV is  ? x ? and outside the range and plate solve fails.   I have posted questions on the ZWO Facebook group and on the Celestron AVX group and still no clear answers.  

Any help in figuring this out would be much appreciated.  Here are the two scenarios I would be using per George at Astro-Physics.

Per George:

          The adapter setups below are shown following the light path from left to right (scope on the left & camera to the right).

 

                      130 EDFGT with 67PF562 field flattener: 
 

                                67PF562 + A1262 CCD Adapter + A3503-A (Extension) + ADA27-42 + new camera (ASI1071MC Pro)

 

                      Stowaway with 92FF field flattener:

                                92FF + Precise Parts Adapter + ADA27-42 + new camera (ASI1071MC Pro)
                                            
                              The below screenshot is the info on the Precise Parts Adapter: on my Stowaway:


Need help figuring out focal length for Stowaway and AP130EDFGT / Field Flattener and more for inputting into ASIAir Pro

Denice Woody
 
Edited

I am running into problems figuring out the focal length to use with my new ZWO ASIAir Pro and ZWO ASI071 MC Pro camera and AP Stowaway.  I have tried inputting 0 to have the ASIAir Pro calculate it but it comes up with 648 or 649, and I'm not sure it takes into account the field flattener (or the Precise Parts Adapter).  I haven't used the Pro with the AP130 Gran Turismo yet since I'm having so much trouble.  And I have tried uploading an image from the first night where things worked to Astrometry.net to calculate but it's going on 12 hrs processing/queued!  Unfortunately I didn't write the focal length down for reference later that first night.  So my plate solves are a crap shoot and I get told my FOV is  ? x ? and outside the range and plate solve fails.   I have posted questions on the ZWO Facebook group and on the Celestron AVX group and still no clear answers.  

Any help in figuring this out would be much appreciated.  Here are the two scenarios I would be using per George at Astro-Physics.

Per George:

          The adapter setups below are shown following the light path from left to right (scope on the left & camera to the right).

 

                      130 EDFGT with 67PF562 field flattener: 
 

                                67PF562 + A1262 CCD Adapter + A3503-A (Extension) + ADA27-42 + new camera (ASI071MC Pro)

 

                      Stowaway with 92FF field flattener:

                                92FF + Precise Parts Adapter + ADA27-42 + new camera (ASI071MC Pro)
                                            
                              The below screenshot is the info on the Precise Parts Adapter: on my Stowaway:


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

 

Awesome pictures, thanks for sharing!

 

Rockford knew there was an eclipse coming, so it put up the nice clouds in preparation for the guest last night. This screenshot of the forecast proves that the sky here has a sense of humor!

 

 

Liam

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of thefamily90 Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

 

No, here are pics made with my IPhone held up to the eyepiece of my Stowaway.

 

JimP

Image.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpeg

 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of dvjbaja <jpgleasonid@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:43:26 PM
To:
main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

 

Do you think I'll need a field flattener with the Stowaway and a full frame DSLR?  

 

-jg

 

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:11 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

 

Rolando

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <
strivedi@...>
To:
main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

Roland Christen
 

Probably not.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: dvjbaja <jpgleasonid@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

Do you think I'll need a field flattener with the Stowaway and a full frame DSLR?  

-jg

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:11 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

 

that's pretty amazing for a mobile device


On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 3:20 PM thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...> wrote:
No, here are pics made with my IPhone held up to the eyepiece of my Stowaway.

JimP
Image.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpeg


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of dvjbaja <jpgleasonid@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:43:26 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning
 
Do you think I'll need a field flattener with the Stowaway and a full frame DSLR?  

-jg

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:11 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

thefamily90 Phillips
 

Please ignore the non-eclipse stuff I accidentally sent


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of thefamily90 Phillips <thefamily90@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 6:19:33 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning
 
No, here are pics made with my IPhone held up to the eyepiece of my Stowaway.

JimP
Image.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpeg


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of dvjbaja <jpgleasonid@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:43:26 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning
 
Do you think I'll need a field flattener with the Stowaway and a full frame DSLR?  

-jg

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:11 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

thefamily90 Phillips
 

No, here are pics made with my IPhone held up to the eyepiece of my Stowaway.

JimP
Image.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpegImage.jpeg


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of dvjbaja <jpgleasonid@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:43:26 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning
 
Do you think I'll need a field flattener with the Stowaway and a full frame DSLR?  

-jg

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:11 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

dvjbaja
 

Do you think I'll need a field flattener with the Stowaway and a full frame DSLR?  

-jg

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 2:11 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

Roland Christen
 

Stowaway with DSLR would be quite good. Certainly not too much.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 3:59 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Lunar eclipe early Wed morning

Shailesh Trivedi
 

In Nor Cal it will be a clear night. The only 2021 total lunar eclipse begins around 1:45am Wednesday 5/26/21 with totality around 4:16am.

What FL is good? How about Stowaway with a DSLR? Too much? Then just a 400mm lens? Or even less?

And any recommendations for settings for AP 1100 GTO (perhaps an overkill but is all I got until my Mach2 arrives).

Shailesh


Model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?

Brent Boshart
 

Is it possible to get model corrected coordinates through the command protocol?  See the example below.  If I turn "Point Corr" off in APCC then the coordinates match.


Re: Should I use my BARADV for the upcoming lunar eclipse?

Daniel Borcard
 

Nick,

Daniel

Thanks for that explanation. It made sense until you said "aim at an f ratio (i.e., F/D) equal to 5 times the size of a pixel in microns." Can you intuitively explain why? Failing that the maths would be a good explanation.

The scope has a resolution of 1 arcsec and without a barlow that is about 1 arcsec per pixel for my camera. Your formula says I need a 3x barlow. Spreading that 1 arcsec over 3x3 pixels kind of makes sense for "smoothness."

-- Nick

You prompted me to translate a document that I have used in several talks. It presents the (simple) equations leading to the 5 x pixel rule of thumb. The original was in French. You can find the English version here:


A note on tracking: a 15 second exposure is quite a long time unguided. Especially on the moon which doesn't travel at the sidereal rate. The lunar rate setting on APCC is only approximate since the lunar rate varies during the lunar cycle. And it's RA only so doesn't account for declination drift. So halving that to 8 seconds could be quite a good thing.

Why on earth would you like to expose 15 seconds on the Moon? I mean, imaging the Moon is like taking a photograph of a brightly sunlit rocky landscape (it *is* a brightly sunlit rocky landscape). With the usual cameras the subexposure time is in the order of one to five milliseconds. Ideally you take thousands of them with a video camera, and this only takes several minutes at most, during which the Moon does not have to stay strictly at the same place on the sensor. Stacking programs like AutoStakkert!3 will take care of the drift afterwards. I simply set my mount to the Moon rate, and from time to time I adjust the declination manually during or between the movies. 

Good luck!

Daniel

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Borcard
Observatoire du Geai Bleu
Le ciel est assez grand pour que chacun y trouve sa place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------








Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

I think I will leave it up to others who have similar setups to comment about the feasibility of your setup. i have not tired a C14 myself and nobody around here has such a beastie.

Using off-axis guiders is definitely a requirement for guiding any SCT. Unguided imaging is iffy due to optical component flex.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: EmP <padhye.mihir@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 25, 2021 12:38 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig

Hi Roland,
Thanks for the reply. I will be using ZWOASI 174MC camera (not the mini version. Sorry for the typo) for OAG. Will this be ok or do you recommend any different camera?  I will also add Moonlight motorized focuser (Nitecrawler provided I manage the backfocus or the 2.5" CHL). Can Mach2 handle this rig comfortably?

Regards,
Mihir

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

dvjbaja
 

Wow, and I thought my Mak 10 was undermounted on the 1100.  ???

J



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note9, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: deonb <deonb@...>
Date: 5/24/21 11:49 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig

I have this setup - even heavier than yours since I have to add 7-lbs of counter-balance to the front of my OTA. (I can't push the OTA up forward enough since it will bump up against my observatory dome).

I also have a 3 motorized focusers on mine - mirror, image train and OAG - as well as a rotator, so add another 5 lbs.

I did removed my dovetail bar at the top and mounted my UPBv2 underneath. This reduces the weight and the moment arm. Mounting items at the top requires significantly more counterweight than mounting them at the bottom. In general the mount is a lot happier with everything pulled in closer, so I would say try to avoid the top dovetail bar (and accessories) if you can.

Roland also had to help me with a configuration specific to this weight class, but it's flawless now.  It's certainly on the edge of the graph, but it's not over, and it works very very well.

I don't generally do unguided since APPM is painful with a dome, and it currently doesn't support NINA or ASTAP. However, I have set that up as well to try out. I was able to get 10 minutes at 2800mm and 5 minutes at 3910mm with a so-so APPM map. I was impressed, but I'll wait for ASTAP integration before trying that again. Nothing to do with the weight though - it's obviously able to handle unguided at that weight.

I wouldn't call my configuration "comfortable". You have to really think about where you want to mount stuff, and you have to balance everything perfectly. I would imagine with an EdgeHD 1100 on there you can probably just throw things on wherever they will stick, and it will work. But in the end it does work with the heavier scope. I find it hard to imagine a 1100GTO would give you any better results, but it will likely give you a bit more breathing room.


Re: About APCC and ISS tracking and PC Time

Dale Ghent
 

On May 25, 2021, at 05:31, Bob <astro@...> wrote:

Thanks Ray. Although, APCC could still use the GPS time without updating the computer time perhaps, which would get around the admin issue? I guess this could be problematic for other software though. I guess I will go with some third party software then.
The same clock discipline considerations that exist when syncing time to the PC clock would also exist when syncing to the mount. The PC clock and mount's own clock should also be in sync for reasons including proper precession calculations anyway, so it's best for the mount to be programmed with the PC's time, and the PC's clock to in turn be properly synchronized with a time source.

Time sources and synchronization on the PC is going to be far more flexible and readily doable in a correct way anyhow. NTP infrastructure takes care of these details in whole, with time sources being other NTP servers on the internet to local NTP infrastructure that's uses local time sources, such as a GPS receiver, rubidium clocks, or even NIST's WWV and WWVH shortwave radio. Absent NTP but with a GPS receiver on Windows, you can use NMEATime2. As far as the GPS function in APCC goes, it's useful for your lat/long. Time is going to be a more advanced concern.

As an aside, here's a little neat thing about time sync services, at least here in the US: The US Naval Observatory and NIST still operate telephone lines for their time services. You can call them at any time to hear an audible 1 PPS tick with time announcements every minute. It's pretty moot in the age of mobile phones that have clocks that are synced to the telephone switch's own atomic clock, but If anyone feels like hearing the voices of broadcasters Fred Covington (USNO) or John Doyle (WWV) crooning out the time at 2am, one can still do so.


Re: About APCC and ISS tracking and PC Time

Bob
 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:32 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Hi Bob,

I'm really quite surprised that APCC cannot utilise gps time directly. I bought a $10 usb gps and it works well with
APCC. When I went looking for the setting in APCC that would allow me to utilise the gps time instead of PC time, I
couldn't find it. Now I know why.

Any idea if/when this feature will be introduced?
It probably will not be a feature of APCC because to set the time on the computer APCC would have to be run "as administrator". That is something we probably would not want to do because then the ASCOM driver would not be able to automatically start APCC.

If you have a network connection, you could use Dimension 4. Also, some inexpensive or free utilities supposedly can update the system time with some GPS devices. One I have run across is called "VisualGPS", but I don't know if it will work with the device you have.

-Ray
Thanks Ray.  Although, APCC could still use the GPS time without updating the computer time perhaps, which would get around the admin issue? I guess this could be problematic for other software though. I guess I will go with some third party software then.

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