Date   

Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

dvjbaja
 

Wow, and I thought my Mak 10 was undermounted on the 1100.  ???

J



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note9, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: deonb <deonb@...>
Date: 5/24/21 11:49 PM (GMT-08:00)
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig

I have this setup - even heavier than yours since I have to add 7-lbs of counter-balance to the front of my OTA. (I can't push the OTA up forward enough since it will bump up against my observatory dome).

I also have a 3 motorized focusers on mine - mirror, image train and OAG - as well as a rotator, so add another 5 lbs.

I did removed my dovetail bar at the top and mounted my UPBv2 underneath. This reduces the weight and the moment arm. Mounting items at the top requires significantly more counterweight than mounting them at the bottom. In general the mount is a lot happier with everything pulled in closer, so I would say try to avoid the top dovetail bar (and accessories) if you can.

Roland also had to help me with a configuration specific to this weight class, but it's flawless now.  It's certainly on the edge of the graph, but it's not over, and it works very very well.

I don't generally do unguided since APPM is painful with a dome, and it currently doesn't support NINA or ASTAP. However, I have set that up as well to try out. I was able to get 10 minutes at 2800mm and 5 minutes at 3910mm with a so-so APPM map. I was impressed, but I'll wait for ASTAP integration before trying that again. Nothing to do with the weight though - it's obviously able to handle unguided at that weight.

I wouldn't call my configuration "comfortable". You have to really think about where you want to mount stuff, and you have to balance everything perfectly. I would imagine with an EdgeHD 1100 on there you can probably just throw things on wherever they will stick, and it will work. But in the end it does work with the heavier scope. I find it hard to imagine a 1100GTO would give you any better results, but it will likely give you a bit more breathing room.


Re: About APCC and ISS tracking and PC Time

Dale Ghent
 

On May 25, 2021, at 05:31, Bob <astro@dinoworld.com.au> wrote:

Thanks Ray. Although, APCC could still use the GPS time without updating the computer time perhaps, which would get around the admin issue? I guess this could be problematic for other software though. I guess I will go with some third party software then.
The same clock discipline considerations that exist when syncing time to the PC clock would also exist when syncing to the mount. The PC clock and mount's own clock should also be in sync for reasons including proper precession calculations anyway, so it's best for the mount to be programmed with the PC's time, and the PC's clock to in turn be properly synchronized with a time source.

Time sources and synchronization on the PC is going to be far more flexible and readily doable in a correct way anyhow. NTP infrastructure takes care of these details in whole, with time sources being other NTP servers on the internet to local NTP infrastructure that's uses local time sources, such as a GPS receiver, rubidium clocks, or even NIST's WWV and WWVH shortwave radio. Absent NTP but with a GPS receiver on Windows, you can use NMEATime2. As far as the GPS function in APCC goes, it's useful for your lat/long. Time is going to be a more advanced concern.

As an aside, here's a little neat thing about time sync services, at least here in the US: The US Naval Observatory and NIST still operate telephone lines for their time services. You can call them at any time to hear an audible 1 PPS tick with time announcements every minute. It's pretty moot in the age of mobile phones that have clocks that are synced to the telephone switch's own atomic clock, but If anyone feels like hearing the voices of broadcasters Fred Covington (USNO) or John Doyle (WWV) crooning out the time at 2am, one can still do so.


Re: About APCC and ISS tracking and PC Time

Bob
 

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 08:32 PM, Ray Gralak wrote:
Hi Bob,

I'm really quite surprised that APCC cannot utilise gps time directly. I bought a $10 usb gps and it works well with
APCC. When I went looking for the setting in APCC that would allow me to utilise the gps time instead of PC time, I
couldn't find it. Now I know why.

Any idea if/when this feature will be introduced?
It probably will not be a feature of APCC because to set the time on the computer APCC would have to be run "as administrator". That is something we probably would not want to do because then the ASCOM driver would not be able to automatically start APCC.

If you have a network connection, you could use Dimension 4. Also, some inexpensive or free utilities supposedly can update the system time with some GPS devices. One I have run across is called "VisualGPS", but I don't know if it will work with the device you have.

-Ray
Thanks Ray.  Although, APCC could still use the GPS time without updating the computer time perhaps, which would get around the admin issue? I guess this could be problematic for other software though. I guess I will go with some third party software then.


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

Jeffc
 

Mihir --

Fwiw.. I've currently got a Meade12" ACF (labeled "RC" tho) on the Mach2:
- 16" dovetail saddle,
- Pegasus UPBv2, 
- QHY268M+FW,  (2x2 bin)
- Lumicon GEG (using the reducer only, unguided), 
- Clement Belepheron 3 focuser (rather massive),
- Robofocus motor,
- Dew strap and an orion flexishield,
- and Polemaster on the polar axis hole.

All sitting on an Eagle tripod with two 8" sections (max height).

I'm using pretty all the counterweights I have and it fills up the CW shaft almost completely.

Honestly I'm not sure I could put any more counterweight on the shaft.

Fwiw, I'm currently figuring out the APPM thing -- my horizon is non trivial with trees sticking up all over the place.
I did get a "medium size" model and was super impressed on how objects at about 1700mm FL (12" F/10 with reducer at 6.3) would land smack in the middle of the sensor after a goto.

I think unguided imaging is working with this setup but unfortunately the moon has been hindering anything but short 2 minute exposures.

The meade 12 on the mach2 is kind of an experiment until I get some focus motor issues worked out with the 130GT and Tak FS128 and nebula season returns.
But I am also intrigued w/ running f/4 using the GEG reducer -- however I will need a custom adapter for the camera side of the GEG.
I typically use the 12" for public outreach at an observatory on an AP1200 (or AP1100), but am planning on switching to the Mach2 when the season returns in 2022.
The meade 12" weighs about 40 lbs without the focuser, camera, etc.

-jeff

On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 10:51 PM Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...> wrote:
Just my personal opinion, the biggest SCT and cam setup I would put on a Mach2 would be a C11.

My C14 rides on my 1100GTO, which is a very good match for it.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:38 PM EmP <padhye.mihir@...> wrote:
Hi Roland,
Thanks for the reply. I will be using ZWOASI 174MC camera (not the mini version. Sorry for the typo) for OAG. Will this be ok or do you recommend any different camera?  I will also add Moonlight motorized focuser (Nitecrawler provided I manage the backfocus or the 2.5" CHL). Can Mach2 handle this rig comfortably?

Regards,
Mihir


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

deonb
 

I have this setup - even heavier than yours since I have to add 7-lbs of counter-balance to the front of my OTA. (I can't push the OTA up forward enough since it will bump up against my observatory dome).

I also have a 3 motorized focusers on mine - mirror, image train and OAG - as well as a rotator, so add another 5 lbs.

I did removed my dovetail bar at the top and mounted my UPBv2 underneath. This reduces the weight and the moment arm. Mounting items at the top requires significantly more counterweight than mounting them at the bottom. In general the mount is a lot happier with everything pulled in closer, so I would say try to avoid the top dovetail bar (and accessories) if you can.

Roland also had to help me with a configuration specific to this weight class, but it's flawless now.  It's certainly on the edge of the graph, but it's not over, and it works very very well.

I don't generally do unguided since APPM is painful with a dome, and it currently doesn't support NINA or ASTAP. However, I have set that up as well to try out. I was able to get 10 minutes at 2800mm and 5 minutes at 3910mm with a so-so APPM map. I was impressed, but I'll wait for ASTAP integration before trying that again. Nothing to do with the weight though - it's obviously able to handle unguided at that weight.

I wouldn't call my configuration "comfortable". You have to really think about where you want to mount stuff, and you have to balance everything perfectly. I would imagine with an EdgeHD 1100 on there you can probably just throw things on wherever they will stick, and it will work. But in the end it does work with the heavier scope. I find it hard to imagine a 1100GTO would give you any better results, but it will likely give you a bit more breathing room.


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

Christopher Erickson
 

Just my personal opinion, the biggest SCT and cam setup I would put on a Mach2 would be a C11.

My C14 rides on my 1100GTO, which is a very good match for it.

"My advice is always free and worth every penny!"

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, Hawaii


On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 7:38 PM EmP <padhye.mihir@...> wrote:
Hi Roland,
Thanks for the reply. I will be using ZWOASI 174MC camera (not the mini version. Sorry for the typo) for OAG. Will this be ok or do you recommend any different camera?  I will also add Moonlight motorized focuser (Nitecrawler provided I manage the backfocus or the 2.5" CHL). Can Mach2 handle this rig comfortably?

Regards,
Mihir


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

EmP <padhye.mihir@...>
 

Hi Roland,
Thanks for the reply. I will be using ZWOASI 174MC camera (not the mini version. Sorry for the typo) for OAG. Will this be ok or do you recommend any different camera?  I will also add Moonlight motorized focuser (Nitecrawler provided I manage the backfocus or the 2.5" CHL). Can Mach2 handle this rig comfortably?

Regards,
Mihir


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

Worsel
 

I cannot comment on the weight capacity, but you should be OK with your OAG

Bryan


Re: [ap-ug] Mach2 vibration & noise issue from the RA axis

davidcfinch9
 

Roland,

Can you also send me that email. My Mach 2 also has that resonance vibration.

Regards,

David C. Finch

df121819@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roland Christen via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2021 10:49 AM
To: astrocnc@...; main@ap-ug.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] Mach2 vibration & noise issue from the RA axis

 

The stepper motors will hit resonant points if the belt tension is set too high. If you send me an e-mail I will walk you thru setting the belt tension so it doesn't do that.

 

Roland Christen

Astro-Physics Inc.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Harley Davidson <astrocnc@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, May 22, 2021 9:39 pm
Subject: [ap-ug] Mach2 vibration & noise issue from the RA axis

 

As per my video link above I have just noticed a vibration and noise

issue from the RA axis. It only does it when going from the west side to

the east side of the mount. Also, the Go-To speed must be at 1000 or

1800. Whats up???

 

thanks  tony

 

BTW - here is the description on my YouTube page for this video:

 

Tonight, May 22 - 2021 I noticed a vibration from my Astro-Physics Mach2

mount at the 1000 and 1800 Go-To rates coming from the RA axis. It only

occurs when going from the west side of the mount to the east side.

 

Clip 2 is @ 1800 WEST SIDE to park 3

Clip 3 is @ 1800 EAST SIDE to park 3

Clip 4 is @ 600 WEST SIDE to park 3

Clip 5 is @ 1000 WEST SIDE to park 3

Clip 6 is @ 1800 WEST SIDE to park 3

Clip 7 is @ 600 WEST SIDE to park 3

Clip 8 is @ 1000 WEST SIDE to park 3

 

The rest of the video is documented verbally by me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Question re: Initial setup with GTOCP4

Jil Tardiff
 

Perfect - looking forward to getting this mount up and running!

Thanks a million for the info.

JT


Re: Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Roland Christen
 

The gearbox is not attached to the counterweight shaft adapter. Use a large Phillips head screw driver and tap it with a hammer in CCW direction.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2021 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Hi Roland,
   So I don't need to disengage the clutches or the gear box?

   I can definitely tap with the best of 'em :)

cytan

On Monday, May 24, 2021, 10:08:48 AM CDT, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Tap the Allen wrench with a hammer and it will loosen the adapter.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2021 8:42 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Hi guys,
   I just received the new AP1100 CW shaft adapter with SS insert and I want to replace the existing one without the SS insert. I removed the CW shaft and my telescope and then in the park 3 position,  I inserted an allen wrench into the holes of the adapter and applied some force. Nothing moved. I didn't want to apply more persuasion because I was afraid to damage the gears because the clutches were still engaged and so were the spring loaded gear boxes.

   So before, I apply more persuasion, what is the safe way to do this without damaging anything?

Thanks for any advice.

cytan

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Roland,
   So I don't need to disengage the clutches or the gear box?

   I can definitely tap with the best of 'em :)

cytan

On Monday, May 24, 2021, 10:08:48 AM CDT, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Tap the Allen wrench with a hammer and it will loosen the adapter.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2021 8:42 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Hi guys,
   I just received the new AP1100 CW shaft adapter with SS insert and I want to replace the existing one without the SS insert. I removed the CW shaft and my telescope and then in the park 3 position,  I inserted an allen wrench into the holes of the adapter and applied some force. Nothing moved. I didn't want to apply more persuasion because I was afraid to damage the gears because the clutches were still engaged and so were the spring loaded gear boxes.

   So before, I apply more persuasion, what is the safe way to do this without damaging anything?

Thanks for any advice.

cytan

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

You are going to guide a C14 with a mini-guide camera? It will not work well because the C14 and guide scope will not be in sync for very long (differential flex, mirror shift, etc etc). Bad idea unfortunately.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: EmP <padhye.mihir@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, May 23, 2021 7:12 am
Subject: [ap-gto] #Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig

Hi Roland,
Can the Mach2GTO (with AP 16" EAsy balace dovetail on Eagle 6 mount) comfortably handle the below OTA and image train -

C14 Edge HD OTA 
Additional Losmandy Dovetail bar on top of OTA
C14 edge HD focal reducer
Astrodon/Farpoint AStro MOAG with mini guide camera
QHYCFW3l filter wheel
QHY268M camera
Pegasus UPBv2

Regards,
Mihir

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Roland Christen
 

Tap the Allen wrench with a hammer and it will loosen the adapter.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2021 8:42 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Hi guys,
   I just received the new AP1100 CW shaft adapter with SS insert and I want to replace the existing one without the SS insert. I removed the CW shaft and my telescope and then in the park 3 position,  I inserted an allen wrench into the holes of the adapter and applied some force. Nothing moved. I didn't want to apply more persuasion because I was afraid to damage the gears because the clutches were still engaged and so were the spring loaded gear boxes.

   So before, I apply more persuasion, what is the safe way to do this without damaging anything?

Thanks for any advice.

cytan

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] Mach2 vibration & noise issue from the RA axis

Roland Christen
 

The stepper motors will hit resonant points if the belt tension is set too high. If you send me an e-mail I will walk you thru setting the belt tension so it doesn't do that.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: Harley Davidson <astrocnc@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, May 22, 2021 9:39 pm
Subject: [ap-ug] Mach2 vibration & noise issue from the RA axis


As per my video link above I have just noticed a vibration and noise
issue from the RA axis. It only does it when going from the west side to
the east side of the mount. Also, the Go-To speed must be at 1000 or
1800. Whats up???

thanks  tony

BTW - here is the description on my YouTube page for this video:

Tonight, May 22 - 2021 I noticed a vibration from my Astro-Physics Mach2
mount at the 1000 and 1800 Go-To rates coming from the RA axis. It only
occurs when going from the west side of the mount to the east side.

Clip 2 is @ 1800 WEST SIDE to park 3
Clip 3 is @ 1800 EAST SIDE to park 3
Clip 4 is @ 600 WEST SIDE to park 3
Clip 5 is @ 1000 WEST SIDE to park 3
Clip 6 is @ 1800 WEST SIDE to park 3
Clip 7 is @ 600 WEST SIDE to park 3
Clip 8 is @ 1000 WEST SIDE to park 3

The rest of the video is documented verbally by me.










--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


#Mach2GTO C14Edge HD rig #Mach2GTO

EmP <padhye.mihir@...>
 

Hi Roland,
Can the Mach2GTO (with AP 16" EAsy balace dovetail on Eagle 6 mount) comfortably handle the below OTA and image train -

C14 Edge HD OTA 
Additional Losmandy Dovetail bar on top of OTA
C14 edge HD focal reducer
Astrodon/Farpoint AStro MOAG with mini guide camera
QHYCFW3l filter wheel
QHY268M camera
Pegasus UPBv2

Regards,
Mihir


Re: About APCC and ISS tracking and PC Time

 

>>> For GPS devices that emit standard NMEA time sentences over a serial (COM) port, there is NMEATime2 ($20) or the older, free version, NMEATime.

just for the heck of it, i purchase NMEATime2 and an inexpensive GPS receiver (something like a $30 garmin from Amazon)

it's easy to set up and use and seems to provide exceedingly accurate (and continuous) time updates to my windows setup.

i just placed the GPS puck on top of the telescope (i have my computer mounted to a top plate on the OTA)


Surprised at how easy it was to install and use 



On Mon, May 24, 2021 at 6:12 AM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:

> On May 24, 2021, at 02:43, Bob <astro@...> wrote:

> I'm really quite surprised that APCC cannot utilise gps time directly. I bought a $10 usb gps and it works well with APCC. When I went looking for the setting in APCC that would allow me to utilise the gps time instead of PC time, I couldn't find it. Now I know why.
>
> Any idea if/when this feature will be introduced?

Time syncing is complex enough of a topic that it's best to let dedicated apps which handle the intricacies involved do the driving on this. There are entire professions and academic pursuits based around just this topic, after all, so it's just not something you snap your fingers and see appear in code no matter how "easy" it might appear to the uninitiated.

On Windows:

For NTP, there is the Dimension4. This implements a more aggressive NTP client than the standard one that's built-in to Windows.

For GPS devices that emit standard NMEA time sentences over a serial (COM) port, there is NMEATime2 ($20) or the older, free version, NMEATime.

If you are operating on Linux or other type of *NIX OS, then there are many to accommodate all sorts of time sources.






--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: About APCC and ISS tracking and PC Time

ap@CaptivePhotons.com
 

Dale Ghent said:

For NTP, there is the Dimension4. This implements a more aggressive NTP client than the standard one that's built-in to Windows.

For GPS devices that emit standard NMEA time sentences over a serial (COM) port, there is NMEATime2 ($20) or the older, free version, NMEATime.

If you are operating on Linux or other type of *NIX OS, then there are many to accommodate all sorts of time sources.
One thing to realize is that NMEA time is inherently inaccurate, exacerbated by USB serial delays. Most GPS chips also emit a PPS or 1PPS (1 pulse per second) electrical signal that is very precise, and can be used to synchronize the information from NMEA. Essentially the later says "the time is X" and the PPS signal says "right now".

Windows cannot easily do this, and none of the GPS' that attach via USB can do this.

It is unclear that driving a mount, even as fast as ISS, require this. VisualGPS / NMEATime2 (Dale's example but good one) has a lot of math added to try to pull out all the accuracy possible from UPS GPS without PPS. It's a good windows tool to get what is likely "good enough".

It is relatively cheap however to get more accuracy: A raspberry Pi with off the shelf code and a tiny bit of soldering will let you build a very accurate time server for around $45 ($10 GPS, $35 rPi 3B). The rPi will run GPSD to process the time signals, and coordinates with PPS on a GPIO pin. Built in CHRONYC (which is NTP in disguise) will provide a time signal other systems can coordinate with. I did one recently with:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P8YMVNT

Note that while it has USB, you have to solder to the other pins to get the PPS signal. Interestingly this device is sensitive enough a get a decent signal inside a dozen feet from a window. The rPi can power it. Add a $5 12v to 5v step down and you can power the rPi from your 12v mount supply and strap the combination to your tripod. (Try to keep the GPS device, at least the antenna, a bit away from any wifi emitters as they can conflict -- that's generally a true statement not specific to this).

Then on Windows run the Meinberg NTP server and connect to the rPi (preferably over ethernet for low delay) and it will drive the Windows clock. It is unclear exactly how accurate this combination is, but certainly sub millisecond and probably a few dozen microseconds. Add internet time servers to the Meinberg list and it will fall back to them when the rPi is not available.

Again, it's not clear that NMEA derived time is inadequate, in fact some back of the envelop math makes me think it is quite good enough. But if you are a tad obsessive about getting accurate time on windows, this is a cheap alternative, and easier than trying to "fix" windows directly to use a GPS properly.

Linwood


Re: Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Dale Ghent
 

You just need more leverage than what an allen wrench can provide. Use a longer device, such as a long phillips head screw driver, instead.

On May 24, 2021, at 09:42, Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi guys,
I just received the new AP1100 CW shaft adapter with SS insert and I want to replace the existing one without the SS insert. I removed the CW shaft and my telescope and then in the park 3 position, I inserted an allen wrench into the holes of the adapter and applied some force. Nothing moved. I didn't want to apply more persuasion because I was afraid to damage the gears because the clutches were still engaged and so were the spring loaded gear boxes.

So before, I apply more persuasion, what is the safe way to do this without damaging anything?

Thanks for any advice.

cytan


Question: How do I safety replace the CW shaft adapter

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi guys,
   I just received the new AP1100 CW shaft adapter with SS insert and I want to replace the existing one without the SS insert. I removed the CW shaft and my telescope and then in the park 3 position,  I inserted an allen wrench into the holes of the adapter and applied some force. Nothing moved. I didn't want to apply more persuasion because I was afraid to damage the gears because the clutches were still engaged and so were the spring loaded gear boxes.

   So before, I apply more persuasion, what is the safe way to do this without damaging anything?

Thanks for any advice.

cytan

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