Date   

Re: Lost AP1100AE

Roland Christen
 

Time is probably off by 1 hour. That would cause park positions to shift in RA by 15 degrees. Dec is not affected by a time error. No need to reposition the mount, simply change the time and send it back to a park position. Park 3 is probably the safest since any error in time won't cause a telescope crash.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Darden <rick@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 8, 2021 8:51 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Lost AP1100AE

Hi All,

Last night I was troubleshooting plate solving and ended up getting the mount lost. I homed the mount and thought that would get me squared up but when I parked (position 5) the mount, it is counterweight up approx 10 degrees and dec is in the right position.

It is at a remote observatory so I can't loosen the clutches and reposition the mount. 

Any thoughts to get me out of this?

Much appreciated.

Rick





--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Astro-Physics Cap

Roland Christen
 

Sweet photo!

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: David Johnson <dajohns37@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, May 8, 2021 6:38 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Astro-Physics Cap

I got a cap for my wife for her birthday (no, it wasn’t the only gift, if you’re wondering) as more of a joke than anything.  It was kind of a “my husband got a $12,000 mount, and all I got was this cap” idea, but she seems to enjoy wearing it.  They are nice caps.  Here she is on our property down in southern Ohio, not too far from the river.  In fact, if you look closely at the upper right behind the pylon, you can see a stack that’s part of the (now-closed) Stuart power plant on the Ohio River.  She’s from NH, in case her sweatshirt causes confusion.  Might be fun to have other folks showing themselves wearing an Astro-Physics cap at various places.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Astro-Physics Cap

Jeff B
 

Hey Dave and great gift!

The other gift was that bowling ball "she" always wanted.  😁

Jeff

On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:27 AM M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Great idea David !

Maybe we can set up a folder on the forum where everyone can put their pictures. My family is going to West Virginia later this month to visit my daughter. I will have several good "photo ops" while we are there.

Mike


Re: Astro-Physics Cap

M Hambrick
 
Edited

Great idea David !

Maybe we can set up a folder on the forum where everyone can put their pictures. My family is going to West Virginia later this month to visit my daughter. I will have several good "photo ops" while we are there.

Mike


Re: Astro-Physics Cap

thefamily90 Phillips
 

Beautiful!

JimP 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of David Johnson <dajohns37@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2021 7:38:34 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] Astro-Physics Cap
 
I got a cap for my wife for her birthday (no, it wasn’t the only gift, if you’re wondering) as more of a joke than anything.  It was kind of a “my husband got a $12,000 mount, and all I got was this cap” idea, but she seems to enjoy wearing it.  They are nice caps.  Here she is on our property down in southern Ohio, not too far from the river.  In fact, if you look closely at the upper right behind the pylon, you can see a stack that’s part of the (now-closed) Stuart power plant on the Ohio River.  She’s from NH, in case her sweatshirt causes confusion.  Might be fun to have other folks showing themselves wearing an Astro-Physics cap at various places.


Lost AP1100AE

Rick Darden
 

Hi All,

Last night I was troubleshooting plate solving and ended up getting the mount lost. I homed the mount and thought that would get me squared up but when I parked (position 5) the mount, it is counterweight up approx 10 degrees and dec is in the right position.

It is at a remote observatory so I can't loosen the clutches and reposition the mount. 

Any thoughts to get me out of this?

Much appreciated.

Rick





Astro-Physics Cap

David Johnson
 

I got a cap for my wife for her birthday (no, it wasn’t the only gift, if you’re wondering) as more of a joke than anything.  It was kind of a “my husband got a $12,000 mount, and all I got was this cap” idea, but she seems to enjoy wearing it.  They are nice caps.  Here she is on our property down in southern Ohio, not too far from the river.  In fact, if you look closely at the upper right behind the pylon, you can see a stack that’s part of the (now-closed) Stuart power plant on the Ohio River.  She’s from NH, in case her sweatshirt causes confusion.  Might be fun to have other folks showing themselves wearing an Astro-Physics cap at various places.


Re: AP1100/CP4 and NINA

Michael 'Mikey' Mangieri
 

Sounds great 😎

On May 7, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Dale Ghent <daleg@elemental.org> wrote:


Hey Luca,

Ah yes I see. This particular mechanism is out-of-band from ASCOM. From what I gather, SGPro's own network API implements an endpoint that allows an external app (such as APCC) to inform it with the hour angle meridian limit (I think) of the mount's current declination. APCC hits this endpoint with that info and I guess SGPro takes it under consideration as a form of temporary meridian limit (or delay, if the limit is "beyond the pole.") I'm not an SGPro user or familiar with its internals so I can only guess at how it uses this information.

NINA does have an implementation of the SGPro API that is just a subset of SGPro's full API. It's there to service things like 10micron's pointing modeler and (hopefully soon, I need to catch up with Ray on this) APPM. But we NINA devs aren't interested in adopting SGPro's API as our own, and would rather keep it to the subset of functionality that is currently is. Eventually, we will invent our own design that is better suited to NINA's functions and capabilities. But that time isn't right now.

So where does this leave making NINA aware of meridian limits? In NINA 1.11, which is the current development branch and contains the new Advanced Sequencer, there's a new plugin system. A lot of internal app interfaces are available through this plugin system. One of the NINA contributors has made a plugin that uses a user-supplied file of meridian limits to dynamically adjust the flip time based on the scope's declination. Its data format is a mapping of declination to east+west hour limits in 1 degree increments. APCC's MLM file maps those limits using the Meridian Angle in 1 degree increments. I'm going to look at extending this plugin so that it can read APCC's MLM file and just derive the limits at the current declination from that. The developer of this plugin has been using it for some time to solve the same problem that APCC's meridian limits (and delay) feature solves, so extending it to grok the MLM file format is no big deal.

This will give us a solution that avoids having to further extend an API implementation in the app that we'd rather not pay anymore time to, and doesn't make us have to rush to implement our own API to service just for this one feature (and then get Ray to implement it on his end in APCC.) Instead, we'll just read the MLM file directly and include a user-adjustable setting to flip the scope at some defined number of seconds or minutes before the limit is reached to avoid APCC reacting and potentially parking the scope or stopping tracking.

We'll hack on this and I'll let the group know when there's something usable that's available.

/dale


On May 7, 2021, at 06:38, Luca Marinelli <photo@lucamarinelli.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

A few days ago I posted an example of meridian flips and CW up imaging with APCC and SGP:

https://ap-gto.groups.io/g/main/message/78270

The key setting that allows dynamic (declination-dependent) meridian flip setpoint and CW up or down imaging when allowed by the APCC meridian limits is the checkbox "Send Limit with offset to SGPro" in the Meridian Limit tab in APCC. Does this checkbox only work with SGPro or does it also work with NINA? Maybe Ray can comment why SGPro is special (if it is) and how it is able to take advantage of the full, dynamic meridian limit setting, instead of being limited to a static "flip 15 minutes after the meridian" kind of scenario. It would be great if all imaging applications (not just SGP) could take advantage of this powerful feature.

Cheers,

Luca





Re: AP1100/CP4 and NINA

Dale Ghent
 

Hey Luca,

Ah yes I see. This particular mechanism is out-of-band from ASCOM. From what I gather, SGPro's own network API implements an endpoint that allows an external app (such as APCC) to inform it with the hour angle meridian limit (I think) of the mount's current declination. APCC hits this endpoint with that info and I guess SGPro takes it under consideration as a form of temporary meridian limit (or delay, if the limit is "beyond the pole.") I'm not an SGPro user or familiar with its internals so I can only guess at how it uses this information.

NINA does have an implementation of the SGPro API that is just a subset of SGPro's full API. It's there to service things like 10micron's pointing modeler and (hopefully soon, I need to catch up with Ray on this) APPM. But we NINA devs aren't interested in adopting SGPro's API as our own, and would rather keep it to the subset of functionality that is currently is. Eventually, we will invent our own design that is better suited to NINA's functions and capabilities. But that time isn't right now.

So where does this leave making NINA aware of meridian limits? In NINA 1.11, which is the current development branch and contains the new Advanced Sequencer, there's a new plugin system. A lot of internal app interfaces are available through this plugin system. One of the NINA contributors has made a plugin that uses a user-supplied file of meridian limits to dynamically adjust the flip time based on the scope's declination. Its data format is a mapping of declination to east+west hour limits in 1 degree increments. APCC's MLM file maps those limits using the Meridian Angle in 1 degree increments. I'm going to look at extending this plugin so that it can read APCC's MLM file and just derive the limits at the current declination from that. The developer of this plugin has been using it for some time to solve the same problem that APCC's meridian limits (and delay) feature solves, so extending it to grok the MLM file format is no big deal.

This will give us a solution that avoids having to further extend an API implementation in the app that we'd rather not pay anymore time to, and doesn't make us have to rush to implement our own API to service just for this one feature (and then get Ray to implement it on his end in APCC.) Instead, we'll just read the MLM file directly and include a user-adjustable setting to flip the scope at some defined number of seconds or minutes before the limit is reached to avoid APCC reacting and potentially parking the scope or stopping tracking.

We'll hack on this and I'll let the group know when there's something usable that's available.

/dale

On May 7, 2021, at 06:38, Luca Marinelli <photo@lucamarinelli.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

A few days ago I posted an example of meridian flips and CW up imaging with APCC and SGP:

https://ap-gto.groups.io/g/main/message/78270

The key setting that allows dynamic (declination-dependent) meridian flip setpoint and CW up or down imaging when allowed by the APCC meridian limits is the checkbox "Send Limit with offset to SGPro" in the Meridian Limit tab in APCC. Does this checkbox only work with SGPro or does it also work with NINA? Maybe Ray can comment why SGPro is special (if it is) and how it is able to take advantage of the full, dynamic meridian limit setting, instead of being limited to a static "flip 15 minutes after the meridian" kind of scenario. It would be great if all imaging applications (not just SGP) could take advantage of this powerful feature.

Cheers,

Luca


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Jeff B
 

Don't worry about the thin edge.  Everything is in high compression against a flat surface.  Even if the hole became a slot, everything would be fine.

Jeff

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 6:34 PM Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...> wrote:
Elenillor,

Thank you for the link, it is very helpful.

Shailesh


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Shailesh Trivedi
 

Elenillor,

Thank you for the link, it is very helpful.

Shailesh


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Elenillor
 

Last year there was a similar thread on the ap group (not gto) see: https://ap-ug.groups.io/g/main/topic/79089141#83058

I noted the parts I purchased.


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Shailesh Trivedi
 

Thanks Jeff, looks simple enough provided I stay away from the "thin" edge. I am assuming these are standard 3/8-16 cap head screws (16 tpi) - George can confirm. Then the final step is what length?

Shailesh


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Jeff B
 

Yes, the best solution by far.  

Regarding the slots, just turn the ADATRI over and drill the holes larger from that bottom side.  The existing holes will act as self-centering pilot holes.

Jeff


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 4:47 PM Shailesh Trivedi <strivedi@...> wrote:
Elenillor,

Thanks for your images. i am in a similar situation (I have a Losmandy FHD and ADATRI).  What is the thread count of the 3/8 bolts? And how did you increase the slot size? The inner side is a relatively thin piece of metal.

Shailesh


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Shailesh Trivedi
 

Elenillor,

Thanks for your images. i am in a similar situation (I have a Losmandy FHD and ADATRI).  What is the thread count of the 3/8 bolts? And how did you increase the slot size? The inner side is a relatively thin piece of metal.

Shailesh


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

George
 

This looks like the best solution.    How did you enlarge the holes in the ADATRI?   

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Elenillor
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 3:39 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

 

I attached the ADATRI using the 3/8" holes. I needed to get low profile 3/8" bolts and slightly enlarge the slots on the bottom of the ADATRI. That allows the counter weight to be directly over the leg. I felt that to be important since I have about 60# of counter weights for and the AP254.


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

Elenillor
 

I attached the ADATRI using the 3/8" holes. I needed to get low profile 3/8" bolts and slightly enlarge the slots on the bottom of the ADATRI. That allows the counter weight to be directly over the leg. I felt that to be important since I have about 60# of counter weights for and the AP254.


Re: Spikes in Dec

Sébastien Doré
 

Very interesting. Posted that over the openPHD forum as well. 
Will let know how that turns out.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> de la part de Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Envoyé : 6 mai 2021 18:19
À : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in Dec
 
Basically the way RA guiding happens is the same as a non-encoder mount, except that the guide software doesn't have to fight a periodic error. So the guide pulses can be sent at a slower cadence. (cadence is not equal to guide star exposure).

Declination is definitely different in an Astro-Physics encoder mount. Reversal backlash is gone, so that a 1 arc sec command in the reverse direction will cause the axis to move 1 arc sec in that reverse direction. A non-encoder mount sometimes needs many 1 arc sec move commands before the Dec axis actually reverses direction. That's because the motor shaft must move a significant rotational distance (number of arc seconds) in reverse before the worm wheel begins to move. It could be 5 arc seconds, or 10 or even more on some mounts. It all depends how tight the gearing is and the clearances in the reduction gears or the amount a belt stretches in a belt drive mount. It's never zero in any mount.

There is a caveat however for the 1 arc sec reversal in an encoder mount. The encoder does not eliminate the actual mechanical delay, or the distance it takes for the reversal to happen. The motor shaft still needs to move 5 or 10 arc seconds at the 1x rate, but the encoder makes that happen automatically after only one move command. It means that any move command in Dec might take a second of time if it is a reversal move, rather than being instant. Therefore the best way to guide in Dec is to let the axis settle for a second or two before taking another guide exposure and sending another guide pulse. Too fast cadence will cause the tracking to be less accurate than it could be. Adding a 2 second delay between guide exposures is a good way to to keep the Dec axis stable and prevent hunting and chasing the seeing.

It would even be better if PHD would wait 1 second after a move command before actually taking the exposure of the guide star so that the axis has a chance to reverse and fully settle. But perhaps that is not in the cards at this time. Maxim DL does insert a small delay of that size after issuing a guide command, and so I have found that it will guide very accurately even at the longest focal lengths.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2021 4:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in Dec

You want to enable DEC compensation here

This adjusts the guiding based on your sky position, which doesn't change (unless you are going to say you have a space telescope)

>>>I realize this is more a question for the PHD forum, (sorry about that) but I thought it could be of general interest here as well if you have the answer at hand.

that's fine - happy to help. Maybe you can shoot me some of your logs direct via email and I can review them. 

I'm not sure I saw what Howard mentioned, but guiding with high quality encoders is a relatively new thing, so anything is possible. lowpass2 was introduced only a few years ago iirc

 
Brian


On Thu, May 6, 2021 at 1:45 PM Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...> wrote:
Hi Brian,

For the DEC, yes, you recalled right, Lowpass2. For RA, I have Hysterersis selected. 

I see there's also the possibility to select lowpass2 for RA, but I believe I read somewhere not to use it for that axis (possibly in the PHD2 manual). Anyway, I didn't seem to have any guiding problems in RA, so I'd leave it there for now.

Just looking around at other settings, I realize that I have the "Use DEC compensation" checked in the Guiding tab,  Calibration section. Help file says that it usually should stay checked unless in "unsual" cases, like when a mount's controller would apply a compensation automatically. Should I assume that a mount with abs encoders correspond to that definition and uncheck the box? Do you think, this could explain the issue reported by Howard/Roland ?

I realize this is more a question for the PHD forum, (sorry about that) but I thought it could be of general interest here as well if you have the answer at hand.



Sébastien


De : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 6 mai 2021 17:01
À : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in Dec
 
Seb i seem to recall you using lowpass2 in PHD which is the correct algorithm for high res encoders


--
Brian 



Brian Valente

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

George
 

Yanzhe,

 

Is the spacing for those holes correct?   If so, because the Mach1’s payload is small, it probably would not matter that the north leg is not under the counterweight shaft.    The weight balance on the tripod is probably okay.    You can probably use washers with button head screws…again, the small Mach1 payload will probably work for you.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of yanzhe liu
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 1:39 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

 

George,

 

I could attach ADATRI to HD tripod using 3 highlighted 1/4" holes (I did this for Mach1). It looks strong, but none of the tripod legs points due north.

Should I concern about the stability and strength of this setup?

 

 

Yanzhe

 

 

On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:29 AM George <george@...> wrote:

Yanzhe,

 

The three tapped holes that are on the Losmandy HD tripod are for the Losmandy MA adapter.   They are 3/8” tapped holes and will not work with the ADATRI.   If the Losmandy MA adapter is on the Losmandy tripod, then you can use our LT2APM Flat Adapter and then attach the ADATRI to it.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of yanzhe liu
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

 

Can I attach ADATRI directly to Losmandy HD tripod?

I think I can do it with 3 1/4" screws, not receommeded 5/8" ones. Is there any concern by doing so?

 

Yanzhe


Re: ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

yanzhe liu
 

George,

I could attach ADATRI to HD tripod using 3 highlighted 1/4" holes (I did this for Mach1). It looks strong, but none of the tripod legs points due north.
Should I concern about the stability and strength of this setup?

IMG_2601 2.jpg

Yanzhe


On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 7:29 AM George <george@...> wrote:

Yanzhe,

 

The three tapped holes that are on the Losmandy HD tripod are for the Losmandy MA adapter.   They are 3/8” tapped holes and will not work with the ADATRI.   If the Losmandy MA adapter is on the Losmandy tripod, then you can use our LT2APM Flat Adapter and then attach the ADATRI to it.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of yanzhe liu
Sent: Thursday, May 6, 2021 3:47 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] ADATRI on Losmandy HD Tripod

 

Can I attach ADATRI directly to Losmandy HD tripod?

I think I can do it with 3 1/4" screws, not receommeded 5/8" ones. Is there any concern by doing so?

 

Yanzhe

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