Date   

Re: Motor Box Removal — AP1100 AE-L

Roland Christen
 

Yes, go ahead and detach the cable. Nothing bad will happen.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stiner <stinerjohn@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, May 5, 2021 12:49 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Motor Box Removal — AP1100 AE-L

My grease kit arrived from AP and I have been reviewing the instructions. With regard to removal of the motor boxes, my encoder mount has a small attachment (aluminum cover) on the bottom of each motor box that has a cable running to the read head for the encoders. I am not above screwing things up so before I engage in my usual damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead routine, I wanted to pause and see if this aluminum attachment may safely be removed by removing the screws that attach it to the motor box. Otherwise, after removal of the motor box, it would still be attached to the mount via the cable that runs to the read head. If not, is there another way to remove the motor box? My apologies if this has been covered in a previous post but I couldn’t locate one.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Motor Box Removal — AP1100 AE-L

John Stiner
 

My grease kit arrived from AP and I have been reviewing the instructions. With regard to removal of the motor boxes, my encoder mount has a small attachment (aluminum cover) on the bottom of each motor box that has a cable running to the read head for the encoders. I am not above screwing things up so before I engage in my usual damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead routine, I wanted to pause and see if this aluminum attachment may safely be removed by removing the screws that attach it to the motor box. Otherwise, after removal of the motor box, it would still be attached to the mount via the cable that runs to the read head. If not, is there another way to remove the motor box? My apologies if this has been covered in a previous post but I couldn’t locate one.


Re: Spikes in DEC #guiding #Guiding

Roland Christen
 

So, were you imaging with the dewshield off and unbalanced?

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 5, 2021 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding

Hi,

For reference, I did calibrate near M3 which was the nearest I could get from the celestial equator/meridian at the time, given high trees that obstruct my sight in the south. 

But guess what, it seems Brian, Howard and Roland were right from the very beginning. (Who would have thought? Silly me...)

It seems my DEC axis was indeed in severe imbalance and my PA was off after all... Moreover, it was entirely human mistake (as it usually is in these kind of situation).

Curious to know how I found out ? Here it goes. Given all hypothesis were pointing in the same direction (DEC imbalance, PA off), one can only admit the simplest explanation is that indeed these are right somehow. That was difficult to admit for me, since I was convinced I had done everything right from the beginning (and I had, as a matter of fact). But at the end of the night (that's one clue), even PHD2 figures were shouting at me : PA was 20 arc-min off and DEC corrections were in only one direction.

So I mentally replayed the night, trying to remember the smallest and finest details. And it struck me. Remember the wind ? And me saying I had to remove the dew shield to help with that ? And there you have it ! That simple: I had REMOVED the DEW SHIELD ! That explains how my 2.3' PA went to 20.1', (even if I removed it carefully it seems - it was tightly put as it only holds with friction so I had to pull it out with some force). One down. That could also explain the imbalance but at that point, I was still skeptical it could have been "severe" because that thing is made of thin plastic and pretty lightweight (< 13oz) compared to the rest of the load. That and the fact that when I work on the setup inside, the dewshield is also OFF (but dustcap is ON and only slightly lighter). Anyway, simple experiment would confirm: scope in park 5, dewshield ON, DEC balanced, unlock the clutches, remove dew shield. See result in attached JPG. Definitely a severe imbalance...

Mystery solved (for me at least, it was a mystery) and lesson learned: once set up, don't touch the dew shield (basic, I should have known).

Thanks to Brian and all the folks at AP, you guys did challenge me enough to bring me back on the right track. BTW, I haven't said it publicly yet but as others have already said, that Mach2 is a marvel of engineering and craftsmanship. Thanks AP for making this piece of art real. That mount and the customer service that comes with it is definitely worth every penny.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> de la part de Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Envoyé : 4 mai 2021 11:21
À : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding
 
The fact that both RA and Dec are drifting so fast in just a few minute's time indicates either that your polar alignment is way off, or that the object that you are calibrating on is not near the celestial equator and meridian.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, May 3, 2021 10:42 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding

Well, I'm not the one who will contest your analysis, Brian. As Howard said earlier, your advice is to be taken seriously, and I agree! 🙂 And I also agree with your argument about the guiding pulse being in only one direction and being compatible with bad PA.

The reason why I said it was good in the first place is only because PHD told me so (see attached). It wasn't based on anything other data. Hence my hypothesis about it struggling to show me the real NCP when I did the Polar Drift Align in the gusty conditions...

Anyway, AP is also working with me behind the scenes to help figure out what could have happened. So, we'll see if they can shed some light on this from their perspective.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 3 mai 2021 22:55
À : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding
 
Seb

When i first reviewed your PHD logs, it appeared to me your polar alignment was quite off. All your corrections were in one direction

You said you thought it was the wind, but i have my doubts about that

so it's possible your polar alignment may be misaligned for whatever reason


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Spikes in DEC #guiding #Guiding

Seb@stro
 

Hi,

For reference, I did calibrate near M3 which was the nearest I could get from the celestial equator/meridian at the time, given high trees that obstruct my sight in the south. 

But guess what, it seems Brian, Howard and Roland were right from the very beginning. (Who would have thought? Silly me...)

It seems my DEC axis was indeed in severe imbalance and my PA was off after all... Moreover, it was entirely human mistake (as it usually is in these kind of situation).

Curious to know how I found out ? Here it goes. Given all hypothesis were pointing in the same direction (DEC imbalance, PA off), one can only admit the simplest explanation is that indeed these are right somehow. That was difficult to admit for me, since I was convinced I had done everything right from the beginning (and I had, as a matter of fact). But at the end of the night (that's one clue), even PHD2 figures were shouting at me : PA was 20 arc-min off and DEC corrections were in only one direction.

So I mentally replayed the night, trying to remember the smallest and finest details. And it struck me. Remember the wind ? And me saying I had to remove the dew shield to help with that ? And there you have it ! That simple: I had REMOVED the DEW SHIELD ! That explains how my 2.3' PA went to 20.1', (even if I removed it carefully it seems - it was tightly put as it only holds with friction so I had to pull it out with some force). One down. That could also explain the imbalance but at that point, I was still skeptical it could have been "severe" because that thing is made of thin plastic and pretty lightweight (< 13oz) compared to the rest of the load. That and the fact that when I work on the setup inside, the dewshield is also OFF (but dustcap is ON and only slightly lighter). Anyway, simple experiment would confirm: scope in park 5, dewshield ON, DEC balanced, unlock the clutches, remove dew shield. See result in attached JPG. Definitely a severe imbalance...

Mystery solved (for me at least, it was a mystery) and lesson learned: once set up, don't touch the dew shield (basic, I should have known).

Thanks to Brian and all the folks at AP, you guys did challenge me enough to bring me back on the right track. BTW, I haven't said it publicly yet but as others have already said, that Mach2 is a marvel of engineering and craftsmanship. Thanks AP for making this piece of art real. That mount and the customer service that comes with it is definitely worth every penny.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> de la part de Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Envoyé : 4 mai 2021 11:21
À : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding
 
The fact that both RA and Dec are drifting so fast in just a few minute's time indicates either that your polar alignment is way off, or that the object that you are calibrating on is not near the celestial equator and meridian.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Seb@stro <sebastiendore1@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, May 3, 2021 10:42 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding

Well, I'm not the one who will contest your analysis, Brian. As Howard said earlier, your advice is to be taken seriously, and I agree! 🙂 And I also agree with your argument about the guiding pulse being in only one direction and being compatible with bad PA.

The reason why I said it was good in the first place is only because PHD told me so (see attached). It wasn't based on anything other data. Hence my hypothesis about it struggling to show me the real NCP when I did the Polar Drift Align in the gusty conditions...

Anyway, AP is also working with me behind the scenes to help figure out what could have happened. So, we'll see if they can shed some light on this from their perspective.

Sébastien


De : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> de la part de Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Envoyé : 3 mai 2021 22:55
À : main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Objet : Re: [ap-gto] Spikes in DEC #guiding #guiding
 
Seb

When i first reviewed your PHD logs, it appeared to me your polar alignment was quite off. All your corrections were in one direction

You said you thought it was the wind, but i have my doubts about that

so it's possible your polar alignment may be misaligned for whatever reason


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Losing Communications with the Mount

 

Marty are you using UDP or TCP?


On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 9:03 AM mjb87 via groups.io <mjb87=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
I had similar problems.  My Mach2 was connected via a wired Ethernet connection but ultimately needed to pass through a series of managed LAN switches. My hypothesis is that, when the switches are heavy with traffic, the time it takes to get the signal through all of the switches exceeds the response time the CP4 or CP5 is looking for. My setup was CP5->Switch1->Switch2->Switch-3->MainSwitch->Router. Most of the switch connections are fiber; only one is Cat6.

I simplified the LAN setup
- Removed one switch from the daisy chain
- Reduced the security-camera traffic going through those switches

At some point I will investigate setting switch port priorities that favor the CP4/5 links but I need to read up on that first since I am currently using jumbo frames and my switches (TrendNet TPE series) won't let you do that with jumbo frames.

Since then I haven't seen the issue nearly as much, if at all. I also added a USB backup connection which seems to work well.

Marty



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Losing Communications with the Mount

mjb87@...
 

I had similar problems.  My Mach2 was connected via a wired Ethernet connection but ultimately needed to pass through a series of managed LAN switches. My hypothesis is that, when the switches are heavy with traffic, the time it takes to get the signal through all of the switches exceeds the response time the CP4 or CP5 is looking for. My setup was CP5->Switch1->Switch2->Switch-3->MainSwitch->Router. Most of the switch connections are fiber; only one is Cat6.

I simplified the LAN setup
- Removed one switch from the daisy chain
- Reduced the security-camera traffic going through those switches

At some point I will investigate setting switch port priorities that favor the CP4/5 links but I need to read up on that first since I am currently using jumbo frames and my switches (TrendNet TPE series) won't let you do that with jumbo frames.

Since then I haven't seen the issue nearly as much, if at all. I also added a USB backup connection which seems to work well.

Marty


Re: Losing Communications with the Mount

Howard Hedlund
 

Hi Alex,
For starters, I would hook up a USB cable as your backup COM port in APCC.  That's just a good idea regardless.  Ethernet connections through a network are usually our preferred method for communicating.  Here are a few things to consider:
  • Do each of these things one at a time, or you'll never know what the actual problem was.
  • Ray mentioned increasing the timeout to 300 mSec.  I would go even higher, especially if you have other users on this same network. If you have 2 or 3 people on the same home network, all streaming different 4K movies, you are bound to need occasional longer timeouts for the mount.  The IEEE protocol (if I understand and remember correctly) was originally set up for timeouts up to 3000 mSec (3 seconds).
  • Try a new cable or cables, and try a different port on your router or switch.  Check the cable ends, and check the receptacle.  Outdoor switches in observatories are great places for spiders to call home.
  • Change from the network (GTOCP4 is a client) to operating peer-to-peer (GTOCP4 is a server).  This setting can be changed on the webpage if you can access it.  It can also be changed using USB or serial and the SerialUtilities.jar program that is on your thumb drive.  You MUST power-cycle the CP4 for any changes to take effect.
  • If none of the above seems to help: 1. ground yourself to allow any static to discharge.  2. Carefully remove the white top cover of the CP4.  Mind the WiFi antenna lead!  The left side is taken up by a digital board that is mounted on the main board below.  3. Note whether there are screws or snap fittings holding the board in place.  The board may have been knocked partially loose by rough handling from shippers.  This is unlikely if the CP4 is new enough to have the screws, but either way, check that the board is properly seated.  The location of the connector between the boards is shown on the photo.  (This board is a prototype and will look a bit different from yours.)  This is the only place that may need reseating.
  • If you continue to have issues, call me at AP.


Re: 400 Mount Seen on eBay

Jeffc
 

I think this is the same one I saw in a Craigslist posting recently.  It appeared to me to be part of a “storage locker sight unseen contents buy”.    Afaict this is just the mount , no electronics seem to be included, or CW shaft.    (Btw The CL post also had a 13” red tube Coulter dob that iirc appeared to me to be overpriced.)

This blurb is included in the 400QMD eBay post:
“”It does not include a additional parts or accessories.“”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


On May 5, 2021, at 5:51 AM, M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...> wrote:

I expect that many people have seen this already, but to those who have not there is a 400 QMD mount for sale on eBay. The only caveat is that it is a local pickup only in Milpitas, California

Mike


Connecting ASIAIR Pro to a CP4 - Mach1

Lee Decovnick
 

Hi all,

This is my first post, though I’ve been a long time Mach 1 (CP3) owner and I just bought a second used Mach 1 (CP4) for my wife. We shoot astrophotography two weeks a year on the Modoc Plateau, 50 miles east of Mt. Shasta.

The ASI Air Pro mount interfaces is pretty basic, which is fine as she moves up from shooting the Milky Way with a DSLR into using the ASI CMOS cameras.
So far I have had tried Ethernet and USB and Wi-Fi to talk to the ASI Air Pro, nothing. I can see the GTO WiFi network ,but no handshake with the ASI. But I loaded the FIDI driver and at 9600 baud, the RS232 serial port does connect, but drops out often.

I’m running the ASIAIR Pro App on a Windows 10 machine ( larger screen) - rather than an iPad - using Blue Stacks emulation..a pretty nifty set up. I do not have APCC loaded on my Window machine, do I need to do so?

Am I aiming for a bridge too far? I’m accustomed to simply shooting astrophotography just using my hand controller for the GOTO’s and I have no tracking problems with 2-3 minutes subs without PremPro. I polar align in the field with a RAPAS. Easy-peasy.

Suggestions and comments welcome.

Lee
Walnut Creek,Ca


Re: Losing Communications with the Mount

Steve Reilly
 

To add to Ray's post, we had issues with the scope at SRO which was wired (CAT5) but through a switch instead of the direct computer connect. When I discovered this I had the guys at SRO wire the mount directly to the 2nd LAN connection on the computer. Of course the IP address of the CP4 had to be discovered and the address used but since there hasn't been a single COM error. Worth the effort if not wired from computer to mount even if a second LAN connection is only available via an addon card. Our motherboard had 2 native LAN connections.

-Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 6:10 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Losing Communications with the Mount

Hi Alex,

Today I started playing with APCC and started to define the horizon,
and it happened again. APCC displays NO RESPONSE FROM MOUNT in the
telescope position section. I also get no response if I try to
connect to the mount via a browser. Pinging the mount’s IP address also fails. I can only get communications with the mount if I power cycle it, at which point APCC re-establishes communications.
If the mount won't ping, there could be a network or power issue.

Are you directly connecting the computer to the mount? Or, is it going through a network router/switch/hub?

Try replacing the network cable(s) and any hub/switch.

Also, try raising the timeout value slightly in APCC. You should not need to go over 300 msecs for most requests. The mount will respond to most requests very quickly, but depending on the performance of your computer, the responses might not make it back through the network protocol stack to APCC before a timeout occurs.

Lastly, try switching the network protocol type. In APCC, if you are using UDP, try TCP instead, or vice versa.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
Of alex
Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 11:27 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Losing Communications with the Mount

Ok, I’ve finally have some time to start playing with my new 1100, and
I’m having an issue with losing connection with the mount. Everything
would be going along, and then the driver starts complaining it can’t
communicate with the mount. Today I started playing with APCC and
started to define the horizon, and it happened again. APCC displays
NO RESPONSE FROM MOUNT in the telescope position section. I also get no response if I try to connect to the mount via a browser. Pinging the mount’s IP address also fails. I can only get communications with the mount if I power cycle it, at which point APCC re-establishes communications.

I’m not using a USB connection to the mount. I’ve directly connected
to my network via ethernet, as well as connecting it to my WiFi. I
have APCC setup to use the direct ethernet connection, so WiFi issues aren’t the problem.

The last time this happened, the mount was simply tracking during an
exposure and communications failed about halfway through the exposure.
It’s clear from that exposure during the failure that tracking stopped
as the stars started streaking. I got the mount and downloaded all the software last week, so I assume I'm all up to date on that account. The PC has windows 10 Pro and the latest updates.

I’m at a loss as to what might be going on. Any suggestions as how to troubleshoot this?

Alex




400 Mount Seen on eBay

M Hambrick
 

I expect that many people have seen this already, but to those who have not there is a 400 QMD mount for sale on eBay. The only caveat is that it is a local pickup only in Milpitas, California

Mike


Re: Losing Communications with the Mount

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Alex,

Today I started playing with APCC and started to define the horizon, and it
happened again. APCC displays NO RESPONSE FROM MOUNT in the telescope position section. I also get
no response if I try to connect to the mount via a browser. Pinging the mount’s IP address also fails. I can only
get communications with the mount if I power cycle it, at which point APCC re-establishes communications.
If the mount won't ping, there could be a network or power issue.

Are you directly connecting the computer to the mount? Or, is it going through a network router/switch/hub?

Try replacing the network cable(s) and any hub/switch.

Also, try raising the timeout value slightly in APCC. You should not need to go over 300 msecs for most requests. The mount will respond to most requests very quickly, but depending on the performance of your computer, the responses might not make it back through the network protocol stack to APCC before a timeout occurs.

Lastly, try switching the network protocol type. In APCC, if you are using UDP, try TCP instead, or vice versa.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of alex
Sent: Tuesday, May 4, 2021 11:27 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Losing Communications with the Mount

Ok, I’ve finally have some time to start playing with my new 1100, and I’m having an issue with losing
connection with the mount. Everything would be going along, and then the driver starts complaining it can’t
communicate with the mount. Today I started playing with APCC and started to define the horizon, and it
happened again. APCC displays NO RESPONSE FROM MOUNT in the telescope position section. I also get
no response if I try to connect to the mount via a browser. Pinging the mount’s IP address also fails. I can only
get communications with the mount if I power cycle it, at which point APCC re-establishes communications.

I’m not using a USB connection to the mount. I’ve directly connected to my network via ethernet, as well as
connecting it to my WiFi. I have APCC setup to use the direct ethernet connection, so WiFi issues aren’t the
problem.

The last time this happened, the mount was simply tracking during an exposure and communications failed
about halfway through the exposure. It’s clear from that exposure during the failure that tracking stopped as
the stars started streaking. I got the mount and downloaded all the software last week, so I assume I'm all up
to date on that account. The PC has windows 10 Pro and the latest updates.

I’m at a loss as to what might be going on. Any suggestions as how to troubleshoot this?

Alex




Losing Communications with the Mount

Alex
 

Ok, I’ve finally have some time to start playing with my new 1100, and I’m having an issue with losing connection with the mount.  Everything would be going along, and then the driver starts complaining it can’t communicate with the mount.  Today I started playing with APCC and started to define the horizon, and it happened again.  APCC displays NO RESPONSE FROM MOUNT in the telescope position section.  I also get no response if I try to connect to the mount via a browser.  Pinging the mount’s IP address also fails.  I can only get communications with the mount if I power cycle it, at which point APCC re-establishes communications.
 
I’m not using a USB connection to the mount.  I’ve directly connected to my network via ethernet, as well as connecting it to my WiFi.  I have APCC setup to use the direct ethernet connection, so WiFi issues aren’t the problem. 

The last time this happened, the mount was simply tracking during an exposure and communications failed about halfway through the exposure.  It’s clear from that exposure during the failure that tracking stopped as the stars started streaking.  I got the mount and downloaded all the software last week, so I assume I'm all up to date on that account.  The PC has windows 10 Pro and the latest updates.

I’m at a loss as to what might be going on.   Any suggestions as how to troubleshoot this?

Alex

 


Re: 1100GTO case

skester@...
 

Sure thing:
The RA axis and CP4 are in the 25” XL #024 : 
https://condition1.com/products/25in-storage-trunk-ip67

 

The Dec axis, counterweight shaft and RAPAS are in the 25” XL #289 : https://condition1.com/products/dji-phantom-drone-hard-case

While they make good cases, Condition 1's website excels at making what you are looking for hard to find.

Scott




Re: Recurring error in AP V2 Ascom driver: "One or more valuesare out of range: LatSecondsLngSeconds..." #ASCOM_V2_Driver

Steve Wilkins
 

Hi John,
Looks like I may have solved this. I checked Windows number format settings and for some reason the decimal separator field was blank. I changed to . (period) and the error does not seem to be showing up again.


Re: Recurring error in AP V2 Ascom driver: "One or more valuesare out of range: LatSecondsLngSeconds..." #ASCOM_V2_Driver

John Upton
 

Renan,

   From the screen shot that Steve Wilkins reposted, this looks like it may be an internationalization error between the software and your number entry.

   If you live in a country that uses the comma "," as the decimal separator but have Windows set to use a period "." as the decimal separator, you will get just this sort of error. By entering whole numbers only, the error is avoided as you found. It can also be a problem with the reverse -- that is if you enter a period and your Windows installation is set for international format with a comma, then the same error will happen.

   Try entering the decimal point in both formats and see if the error continues. If it does, maybe Ray will need to look at that section of code to make sure the conversion to decimal matches everything else.

John


Re: 1100GTO case

midmoastro
 

Do you mind sharing the case model on those two? I looked up a couple cases on the Condition1 website but the depth seemed close for the RA.
Thanks again
Todd


Re: Recurring error in AP V2 Ascom driver: "One or more valuesare out of range: LatSecondsLngSeconds..." #ASCOM_V2_Driver

Steve Wilkins
 

Here is a jpg showing the lat/long error in blue. The elevation is also wrong - was saved as 9m not 90m.

Both these errors have been corrected and the site saved, but still show up on reconnecting.


APPM Command Line Switches

W Hilmo
 

From the version history, it looks like APPM added some command line switches in version 1.7.0.5.

Does anyone have a pointer to the list of switches and their definitions?  I don't see it in the help file or in a quick web search.

Thanks,
-Wade


Re: 1100GTO case

skester@...
 

Todd,

I travel every time I image, and I'm using two cases from Condition 1 to transport my 1100GTO.  They have the pick/pluck foam and are working well so far.  I get everything minus the counterweights in the two cases, the CW's go in a tool tote from Home Depot.  With the counterweight shaft included the Dec axis case is slightly heavier (48 lbs) than the RA (45 lbs) even thought the case is smaller, but both are manageable.  I've seen folks put the entire 1100 into a single Pelican style case, but at 80+ lbs that was too much for me.

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