Date   

Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Eric Weiner
 

On Fri, Apr 30, 2021 at 09:19 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
Just a reminder, the Mach2 will handle a 180mm size refractor for imaging on a weekend outing to your favorite dark sky site. I have done it with mine, but it takes an Eagle pier to hold that. I would not do it for a permanent setup,
Roland,

You've got me confused with that statement.  Are you staying the Eagle is more stable for a 180mm refractor than a permanent setup?  Am I just reading your comment wrong?

Thanks,
Eric


Re: [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Roland Christen
 

Last I heard the person who bought that lens managed to drop it and chip the glass. I don't recall the name anymore.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Blazey <mnebula946@...>
To: chris1011@...
Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>; main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 8:29 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Hey Roland.

Yes, you called it your "Mars Lens".  I made a straight through bino-friendly (the old Celestron viewer) OTA around it with a Parks fiberglass tube (in retrospect, the fiberglass was not a good idea) and mounted it on a modified Cave Observatory beast inside a 14 x 14 foot observatory with a roll off roof.  It served me well and after I moved here to Ohio, a few years later I pretty much exited the hobby for ~ 10 years, selling the 7" in the process in the early 90's.  I've been trying to track it down with no success.    It was very good!  Attached is one surviving photo of Venus, single shot, K64, "hat trick".  Visually, the image was just incredible, very white with much detail in the cloud structure around the terminator.  

My other big regret was selling off my pre-traveler 4" F6 triplets (I had two).  It was an astonishing telephoto lens, especially with the reducer flattener (which BTW, I still have) at F4.  Super bright, with exceptional contrast and very manageable.  My Olympus's light meter would read it as an F2.8 lens.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 9:21 PM <chris1011@...> wrote:
yep, I rem,ember doing that with my Nikon camera and Tri-X film.
Whatever happened to that 7"F15 lens? It was one of the first lenses we ever made.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2021 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

That's great Roland and what a wonderful story.  

Yeah, looking back, the days of film seem down right barbarous today.   For lunar/planetary shots, I did the old "hat trick".  I'd focus the old Olympus OM-1 as best I could with a magnifier, retract the mirror, climb up on the ladder and literally placed a hat over the objective (it was a 7" F15 triplet you made), climb back down, open the shutter, climbed back up, slowly pulled the hot forward so it was not touching the scope, waited a few seconds for vibration to settle, flip the hat away then back over the lens to do the exposure, climbed back down again and closed the shutter.

For the next exposure, I did it all-over-again.   

I do NOT miss those days....except that I had a 2 in front of my age.  That part I do miss.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 7:47 PM Pete Lardizabal <p14@...> wrote:
Great stuff Roland! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I always marvel at the incredible works posted by this group but it is so fun to see the results of impromptu pix. That’s some kinda nice “telephoto” lens you used. 

😂😂😂

Pete



On Apr 29, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).


Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Roland Christen
 

The Mach2 major parts have the following weights:

Base  -  12 lb
RA axis  -  13.2 lb
Dec axis  -  17.2 lb

The mount can be separated from the base by removing 6 screws. Actually only 4 are really needed for securing the mount to the base. That leaves just over 30lb to lift. There is an advantage in that you can leave the base on a pier or tripod outside and cover it. Next session you put the mount back on the base and the polar alignment will be there for free.

Just a reminder, the Mach2 will handle a 180mm size refractor for imaging on a weekend outing to your favorite dark sky site. I have done it with mine, but it takes an Eagle pier to hold that. I would not do it for a permanent setup, but for a weekend getaway in your Rivian it would be just fine. You will get perfect tracking (thanks to the Renishaw encoders) as long as you are reasonably well balanced - something that is easy to do with this mount. Can the Mach1 do this? Um, probably not.

Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Woody Schlom <woody_is@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Apr 30, 2021 2:14 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

Mojo,
 
You do realize that the Mach1 can also be divided into two pieces.  As I recall you just remove 6 bolts.  It only takes a minute.
 
Woody
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mojo Jones
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas
 
Yeah, I'll second that. I love my Mach 1 (original issue with updates, many years old). The 1100 is actually easier to schlep because it divides into smaller pieces.

I can still lift the Mach 1 in it's Scopeguard case, but it's not getting any easier. :)

Mojo
On 4/29/21 11:26 AM, Woody Schlom wrote:
NO on the Mach1 being little and light-weight.  Got one – and as the years go on, it keeps putting on weight.  It’s already at my limit to schlepp around just the mount in a rolling case.  And lifting that monster up into a vehicle is a real back-killer.
 
Sorry, but you young strong whipper-snappers don’t understand yet that a Mach1 isn’t a light-weight travel mount.  Not even close.
 
Woody
 
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenneth Tan
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas
 
No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 
 
On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:
You mean a Mach 2?
 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


moderated Newbie question re: APPM

dcraft34@comcast.net
 

I don’t yet have my AP1100 (comes soon). I’ve never used a german equatorial mount, so I’m clearly getting ahead of myself. I hope to use the APPM tracking model with APCC for photometry with a Meade 14 inch with mirror lock, and F5 giving 1.17 arcSec / pixel, and weighing roughly 90# plus counterweights.

I hope to start all of my photometry runs counterweight up and track well past the meridian.

If I correctly understand the APPM point mapping process, most of the mapping points will be derived with the mount in the more normal, counterweight down, configuration. Is it reasonable for me to expect the tracking model to perform acceptably (no guiding needed) if the system in actual use is counterweight up but the APPM points were established using the counterweight down configuration? I’m assuming some mechanical aspects of this OTA are imperfect and this question cannot be answered with certainty but I hope to deterine if my expectations are highly unlikely to be realized, or alternatively, that I have some reasonable probability of success if the mechanicals are stable.

Or has my mind made a pretzel shape of a simple situation? (I’m not visualizing these mount operations with clarity yet- my first few hours of mount operation will teach me much.)

Thanks, Dave


Re: [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Jeff B
 

Hey Roland.

Yes, you called it your "Mars Lens".  I made a straight through bino-friendly (the old Celestron viewer) OTA around it with a Parks fiberglass tube (in retrospect, the fiberglass was not a good idea) and mounted it on a modified Cave Observatory beast inside a 14 x 14 foot observatory with a roll off roof.  It served me well and after I moved here to Ohio, a few years later I pretty much exited the hobby for ~ 10 years, selling the 7" in the process in the early 90's.  I've been trying to track it down with no success.    It was very good!  Attached is one surviving photo of Venus, single shot, K64, "hat trick".  Visually, the image was just incredible, very white with much detail in the cloud structure around the terminator.  

My other big regret was selling off my pre-traveler 4" F6 triplets (I had two).  It was an astonishing telephoto lens, especially with the reducer flattener (which BTW, I still have) at F4.  Super bright, with exceptional contrast and very manageable.  My Olympus's light meter would read it as an F2.8 lens.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 9:21 PM <chris1011@...> wrote:
yep, I rem,ember doing that with my Nikon camera and Tri-X film.
Whatever happened to that 7"F15 lens? It was one of the first lenses we ever made.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2021 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

That's great Roland and what a wonderful story.  

Yeah, looking back, the days of film seem down right barbarous today.   For lunar/planetary shots, I did the old "hat trick".  I'd focus the old Olympus OM-1 as best I could with a magnifier, retract the mirror, climb up on the ladder and literally placed a hat over the objective (it was a 7" F15 triplet you made), climb back down, open the shutter, climbed back up, slowly pulled the hot forward so it was not touching the scope, waited a few seconds for vibration to settle, flip the hat away then back over the lens to do the exposure, climbed back down again and closed the shutter.

For the next exposure, I did it all-over-again.   

I do NOT miss those days....except that I had a 2 in front of my age.  That part I do miss.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 7:47 PM Pete Lardizabal <p14@...> wrote:
Great stuff Roland! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I always marvel at the incredible works posted by this group but it is so fun to see the results of impromptu pix. That’s some kinda nice “telephoto” lens you used. 

😂😂😂

Pete



On Apr 29, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).


Rolando


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Woody Schlom
 

Mojo,

 

You do realize that the Mach1 can also be divided into two pieces.  As I recall you just remove 6 bolts.  It only takes a minute.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mojo Jones
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

 

Yeah, I'll second that. I love my Mach 1 (original issue with updates, many years old). The 1100 is actually easier to schlep because it divides into smaller pieces.

I can still lift the Mach 1 in it's Scopeguard case, but it's not getting any easier. :)

Mojo

On 4/29/21 11:26 AM, Woody Schlom wrote:

NO on the Mach1 being little and light-weight.  Got one – and as the years go on, it keeps putting on weight.  It’s already at my limit to schlepp around just the mount in a rolling case.  And lifting that monster up into a vehicle is a real back-killer.

 

Sorry, but you young strong whipper-snappers don’t understand yet that a Mach1 isn’t a light-weight travel mount.  Not even close.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenneth Tan
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

 

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:

You mean a Mach 2?

 


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Kenneth Tan
 

🤣 just a lot lighter than the Mach2

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 02:26, Woody Schlom <woody_is@...> wrote:

NO on the Mach1 being little and light-weight.  Got one – and as the years go on, it keeps putting on weight.  It’s already at my limit to schlepp around just the mount in a rolling case.  And lifting that monster up into a vehicle is a real back-killer.

 

Sorry, but you young strong whipper-snappers don’t understand yet that a Mach1 isn’t a light-weight travel mount.  Not even close.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenneth Tan
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

 

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:

You mean a Mach 2?


Re: APCC

M Hambrick
 

I watched all 1 hour and 16 minutes of the video. It seems like this one is geared more for the APCC users with more experience. I would be interested to see something more like a getting started with APCC covering the very basics.

Mike


Re: [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Roland Christen
 

yep, I rem,ember doing that with my Nikon camera and Tri-X film.
Whatever happened to that 7"F15 lens? It was one of the first lenses we ever made.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff B <mnebula946@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2021 7:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

That's great Roland and what a wonderful story.  

Yeah, looking back, the days of film seem down right barbarous today.   For lunar/planetary shots, I did the old "hat trick".  I'd focus the old Olympus OM-1 as best I could with a magnifier, retract the mirror, climb up on the ladder and literally placed a hat over the objective (it was a 7" F15 triplet you made), climb back down, open the shutter, climbed back up, slowly pulled the hot forward so it was not touching the scope, waited a few seconds for vibration to settle, flip the hat away then back over the lens to do the exposure, climbed back down again and closed the shutter.

For the next exposure, I did it all-over-again.   

I do NOT miss those days....except that I had a 2 in front of my age.  That part I do miss.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 7:47 PM Pete Lardizabal <p14@...> wrote:
Great stuff Roland! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I always marvel at the incredible works posted by this group but it is so fun to see the results of impromptu pix. That’s some kinda nice “telephoto” lens you used. 

😂😂😂

Pete



On Apr 29, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).


Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Roland Christen
 

Yes indeed, it's about the right focal length for that object to fit in my little APS sensor. 1312mm +-

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Lardizabal <p14@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2021 6:47 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Great stuff Roland! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I always marvel at the incredible works posted by this group but it is so fun to see the results of impromptu pix. That’s some kinda nice “telephoto” lens you used. 

😂😂😂

Pete



On Apr 29, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).

https://www.astrobin.com/wn85k8/

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Jeff B
 

That's great Roland and what a wonderful story.  

Yeah, looking back, the days of film seem down right barbarous today.   For lunar/planetary shots, I did the old "hat trick".  I'd focus the old Olympus OM-1 as best I could with a magnifier, retract the mirror, climb up on the ladder and literally placed a hat over the objective (it was a 7" F15 triplet you made), climb back down, open the shutter, climbed back up, slowly pulled the hot forward so it was not touching the scope, waited a few seconds for vibration to settle, flip the hat away then back over the lens to do the exposure, climbed back down again and closed the shutter.

For the next exposure, I did it all-over-again.   

I do NOT miss those days....except that I had a 2 in front of my age.  That part I do miss.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 7:47 PM Pete Lardizabal <p14@...> wrote:
Great stuff Roland! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I always marvel at the incredible works posted by this group but it is so fun to see the results of impromptu pix. That’s some kinda nice “telephoto” lens you used. 

😂😂😂

Pete



On Apr 29, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).


Rolando


Re: [ap-ug] A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Pete Lardizabal
 

Great stuff Roland! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

I always marvel at the incredible works posted by this group but it is so fun to see the results of impromptu pix. That’s some kinda nice “telephoto” lens you used. 

😂😂😂

Pete



On Apr 29, 2021, at 7:16 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).

https://www.astrobin.com/wn85k8/

Rolando


A colorful Southern Sky Beauty

Roland Christen
 

Hi Astronuts,

I uploaded a second image taken at my Hawaii observatory. While cruising around the southern skies with my 175 refractor, visually, I was struck by the brightness and beauty of this famous object. Now I know that this has been imaged with much more high resolution cameras and scopes, in narrowband and RGB etc, and this image is nowhere near what can be done with even rudimentary equipment. It's just a quick snapshot of a small number of 30 second exposures with my Sony DSLR replacing my 2" eyepiece in the diagonal. No guiding, no processing, just a fun image. It actually looked similar visually in my 2" eyepiece, but without the bright colors that the camera recorded.

I would have been over the Moon if I could have done something like this back 30 years ago with color slide film. Would have taken over an hour, with me glued to a guiding reticle eyepiece, pushing buttons to and fro to keep the guide star on the crosshairs. And then have the film destroyed at the local photo developer (don't laugh, it happened to me a few times).

https://www.astrobin.com/wn85k8/

Rolando

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

 

Yeah, I'll second that. I love my Mach 1 (original issue with updates, many years old). The 1100 is actually easier to schlep because it divides into smaller pieces.

I can still lift the Mach 1 in it's Scopeguard case, but it's not getting any easier. :)

Mojo

On 4/29/21 11:26 AM, Woody Schlom wrote:

NO on the Mach1 being little and light-weight.  Got one – and as the years go on, it keeps putting on weight.  It’s already at my limit to schlepp around just the mount in a rolling case.  And lifting that monster up into a vehicle is a real back-killer.

 

Sorry, but you young strong whipper-snappers don’t understand yet that a Mach1 isn’t a light-weight travel mount.  Not even close.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenneth Tan
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

 

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:

You mean a Mach 2?



Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Jeff B
 

Another great, straight forward reply Roland and thanks.

Jeff

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 2:43 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Both mounts are about the same size mechanically. The extra weight comes from the following:

The Mach2 is heavier, in part, because it uses a pair of high power servo-stepper motors with belt drive that weigh more than the much smaller DC servo motors used on the Mach1. Using the belt drive servos reduced the slewing noise that some people objected to, and also saved cost that was then used to partly offset the added cost of the two encoders.

The Mach2 added an extra set of bearings in the clutch system to allow users to balance their scopes without having to back off the gear teeth. Backing off the gear teeth can be problematic if users ignore the safe way to do this (only in park3 position!!!), and our experience is that a number of people wrecked their worm gear teeth doing it wrong, and we ended up having to replace costly parts. I don't want to repeat that in a small mount.

The Mach2 extended the main shafts all the way to the back where the encoders are, and this stiffened the mount significantly and eliminated shaft runout. It allowed the mount to be rated for a higher payload without being larger in size.

The Mach2 added internal wiring which added some extra parts on top of the Dec axis, thus incrementally increasing weight.

The Mach2 has a much beefier low end that adds stability in windy conditions and allows larger and longer refractors to be used with less settling time compared to the Mach1. This also increased weight.

The Mach2 has the gearboxes enclosed in rigid covers that protect the critical parts during transport and rough handling. I felt that this was very important for a mount that would be thrown into a car trunk and transported to a weekend observing site. It makes the Mach2 more robust versus the more delicate Mach1. Are most people really careful with their equipment? Yes, but we have seen quite a few mounts that were not so carefully handled and had their gears mashed and parts bent.

The difference in weight is about 9 lb between the two. Can we do something about that - maybe, maybe not.

The Mach2 is for serious imagers who want to get the best possible result from their imaging equipment and not have the mount be a limitation. If your skies allow it, the mount will deliver the tracking accuracy that you need to realize the best resolution of your telescope and camera.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2021 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:
You mean a Mach 2?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Roland Christen
 

Both mounts are about the same size mechanically. The extra weight comes from the following:

The Mach2 is heavier, in part, because it uses a pair of high power servo-stepper motors with belt drive that weigh more than the much smaller DC servo motors used on the Mach1. Using the belt drive servos reduced the slewing noise that some people objected to, and also saved cost that was then used to partly offset the added cost of the two encoders.

The Mach2 added an extra set of bearings in the clutch system to allow users to balance their scopes without having to back off the gear teeth. Backing off the gear teeth can be problematic if users ignore the safe way to do this (only in park3 position!!!), and our experience is that a number of people wrecked their worm gear teeth doing it wrong, and we ended up having to replace costly parts. I don't want to repeat that in a small mount.

The Mach2 extended the main shafts all the way to the back where the encoders are, and this stiffened the mount significantly and eliminated shaft runout. It allowed the mount to be rated for a higher payload without being larger in size.

The Mach2 added internal wiring which added some extra parts on top of the Dec axis, thus incrementally increasing weight.

The Mach2 has a much beefier low end that adds stability in windy conditions and allows larger and longer refractors to be used with less settling time compared to the Mach1. This also increased weight.

The Mach2 has the gearboxes enclosed in rigid covers that protect the critical parts during transport and rough handling. I felt that this was very important for a mount that would be thrown into a car trunk and transported to a weekend observing site. It makes the Mach2 more robust versus the more delicate Mach1. Are most people really careful with their equipment? Yes, but we have seen quite a few mounts that were not so carefully handled and had their gears mashed and parts bent.

The difference in weight is about 9 lb between the two. Can we do something about that - maybe, maybe not.

The Mach2 is for serious imagers who want to get the best possible result from their imaging equipment and not have the mount be a limitation. If your skies allow it, the mount will deliver the tracking accuracy that you need to realize the best resolution of your telescope and camera.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Apr 29, 2021 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:
You mean a Mach 2?

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Dale Ghent
 

TBH, anything that involves counterweights is going to be on the heavy side by default. There's just no way around that single most important aspect when it come to weight translating into portability. With that in mind, I don't think a slimmed down Mach1-quasi-400GTO would really hit all the checkboxes when it comes to a truly portable mount that you can take anywhere without much fuss. As Chris said, the wave-strain gear design enables a mount to hit all those portability points - ability to carry a load in a small mechanical space with the least amount of weight. It should also be suitable for use with common and still-portable stocky photo tripods; an aspect that'll further inform the mount's overall size and weight. Gizo 4 and 5 series and Really Right Stuff TVC-33 series are good reference points there.

I got my RST-135 in 2019 because it let me have a full, quality imaging rig with a 92mm refractor in a package that was juuuust barely able to fit into a carry-on configuration suitable for flying on an ERJ/CRJ-sized regional jet. The only part that I put into checked baggage was a small 6A Pyramid power supply, and it made more sense to stick that in checked baggage anyway. LiFePO4 batteries would need to be carryon and are of course subject to airline regulations in terms of per-person quantity and capacities. It's something that I have taken Internationally* and wouldn't have any qualms taking it to places father afield. I really wish I had this setup back when I visited Chile and Namibia.

If this setup required counterweights and shaft of any sort, that would have eaten into my baggage weight allowance considerably. Counterweights are also actually kind of hard to transport loose in suitcases. Sure you can pack them in with clothes as I've done in the past, but any decent amount of bag jostling will still make them side around and potentially wreck anything else in there, not to mention possibly wrecking the suitcase itself. I've seen too many bags fall off the unloading conveyer and onto the tarmac and roll past in baggage claim with split zippers and contents sticking out to want to continue tempting fate in that department... and who knows what else happens to bags when you can't see them.

* more like "International-lite", in my instance to Mexico. But it was still a good first test, even with an infant in tow.

On Apr 29, 2021, at 13:51, Kenneth Tan <ktanhs@gmail.com> wrote:

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side.

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@comcast.net> wrote:
You mean a Mach 2?



Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Woody Schlom
 

NO on the Mach1 being little and light-weight.  Got one – and as the years go on, it keeps putting on weight.  It’s already at my limit to schlepp around just the mount in a rolling case.  And lifting that monster up into a vehicle is a real back-killer.

 

Sorry, but you young strong whipper-snappers don’t understand yet that a Mach1 isn’t a light-weight travel mount.  Not even close.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kenneth Tan
Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2021 10:51 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Small AP Mount Ideas

 

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:

You mean a Mach 2?


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

Kenneth Tan
 

No I mean Mach1. The Mach2 is a great mount but on the heavy side. 

On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 at 01:48, John Chakel <jachakel@...> wrote:
You mean a Mach 2?


Re: Small AP Mount Ideas

John Chakel
 

You mean a Mach 2?

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