Date   

Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Worsel
 

Jack

I use the PowerWerx for balance on the 1100.  I slew at 255 or even 600 rate.  You can use either amps or watts.  For each axis, if I can get up versus down plus/minus 1 W (roughly plus/minus 0.1A at normal voltage), then I consider that 'balanced.' 

Bryan


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Woody Schlom
 

Jack,

 

Yes on the Nylon-tipped clutch bolts, but that’s not I greased.  At least on my Mach1, I believe there’s a sleeve bearing involved and a big flat greased surface between the two parts – not the edges where the clutch bolts contact.  But our mounts are very different I’m sure.  Opposed to Takahashi or Losmandy mounts, on my Mach1, the clutch system doesn’t ride on ball or roller bearings – just greased surfaces. 

 

Don’t know why the PowerWerks meter didn’t show you current (amp) differences.  I know you’ve got a monster of a huge and powerful mount, but it should still show a current load difference for an out-of-balance mount.  Perhaps slew at a faster speed?  And instead of starting with the CW shaft level, start below level so there’s more room for it to move at a faster slew rate?

 

And do make sure you’re looking at amps and not volts.  Volts “should” stay the same.  It’s the current or amps value that should change with how hard the motor is working.

 

If your mount is anything like mine, the grease thickness in the clutch system thins over time – so friction increases over the years.  I know that when I took mine apart, there was little grease left in the clutch system and after applying new grease to the friction surfaces (not where those spring-loaded bolts press), it was a lot easier to balance.

 

I’m surprised Roland or somebody from AP hasn’t suggested something.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 4:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

Woody,

As far as re-greasing the clutches, I do not see a way to do that.  I removed the clutch bolts before and, if memory serves me, they had nylon tips that pressed against the internal metal disc.  

Regarding the PowerWerx in-line meter, I had purchased one years ago to do exactly what you suggested.  I placed the counterweight bar parallel to the ground on the east side of the mount, slowly slewed the weights up and down and did not see a change in current.  I then moved the mount to place the counterweights on the west side of the mount - ditto.  Maybe at that time the mount was better balanced.  I will pull out the meter and rerun the current test.

Thanks for reminding me about using the meter.

Jack


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Jack Huerkamp
 

Woody,

As far as re-greasing the clutches, I do not see a way to do that.  I removed the clutch bolts before and, if memory serves me, they had nylon tips that pressed against the internal metal disc.  

Regarding the PowerWerx in-line meter, I had purchased one years ago to do exactly what you suggested.  I placed the counterweight bar parallel to the ground on the east side of the mount, slowly slewed the weights up and down and did not see a change in current.  I then moved the mount to place the counterweights on the west side of the mount - ditto.  Maybe at that time the mount was better balanced.  I will pull out the meter and rerun the current test.

Thanks for reminding me about using the meter.

Jack


Re: VIDEO - Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount

Harley Davidson
 

Thanks Rolando.

tony

On 3/9/2021 7:13 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io wrote:
Clever!

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Harley Davidson <astrocnc@...>
To: Howard (@ AP) <howard@...>; main@ap-ug.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 4:00 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] VIDEO - Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount

I ended up "modifying" an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP so it would work with the 1600GTO Mount.

Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULDkyZh4GqM


tony

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Worsel
 

Is that before or after the Jello goes in?

Bryan


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Bill Long
 

Bonus that you can have a shot after each motor and wheel combo is complete as you go. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 4:16 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?
 
Everclear will work too and it's not hazardous Stuck out tongue winking eye

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Worsel via groups.io <bryancashion@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Mike

Thanks for the upload!  They are much more useful than the one I received.

George: Thanks for the offer.  As you know, I got the file from Mike.

RE: Solvent.

I was not keen on mineral spirits just from a personal exposure perspective.  I used 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA).  It removes solvent well AND evaporates quickly.  Since it is just one compound, rather than a mix, it should all evaporate, rather than leave a less volatile compound from the mix behind.

To be clear, IPA is also hazardous, but less so than mineral spirits.

See pics for before and after of worm wheel.


Bryan

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Roland Christen
 

Everclear will work too and it's not hazardous Stuck out tongue winking eye

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Worsel via groups.io <bryancashion@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Mike

Thanks for the upload!  They are much more useful than the one I received.

George: Thanks for the offer.  As you know, I got the file from Mike.

RE: Solvent.

I was not keen on mineral spirits just from a personal exposure perspective.  I used 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA).  It removes solvent well AND evaporates quickly.  Since it is just one compound, rather than a mix, it should all evaporate, rather than leave a less volatile compound from the mix behind.

To be clear, IPA is also hazardous, but less so than mineral spirits.

See pics for before and after of worm wheel.


Bryan

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: VIDEO - Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount

Roland Christen
 

Clever!

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Harley Davidson <astrocnc@...>
To: Howard (@ AP) <howard@...>; main@ap-ug.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 4:00 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] VIDEO - Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount

I ended up "modifying" an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP so it would work with the 1600GTO Mount.

Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULDkyZh4GqM


tony

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Worsel
 

Mike

Thanks for the upload!  They are much more useful than the one I received.

George: Thanks for the offer.  As you know, I got the file from Mike.

RE: Solvent.

I was not keen on mineral spirits just from a personal exposure perspective.  I used 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA).  It removes solvent well AND evaporates quickly.  Since it is just one compound, rather than a mix, it should all evaporate, rather than leave a less volatile compound from the mix behind.

To be clear, IPA is also hazardous, but less so than mineral spirits.

See pics for before and after of worm wheel.


Bryan


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Woody Schlom
 

Actually it’s not the clutch surfaces that need lubrication, but the clutch bearings – which are not ball or roller bearings – at least on the original Mach1.

 

And in just looking this up in my Mach1 manual, I see that not all AP mounts use the same systems.  My Mach1 manual states that its clutch system is different than the AP-900 and AP-1200 and has more friction than either of them.  So the AP-1600 could be completely different.

 

And no, it’s been so long since I re-greased my Mach1’s clutch bearings, I don’t remember how I did it.  But it did NOT involve getting into the drive gears at all.

 

I’m not usually one to just tear down a fine mount without guidance, so I must have found some guidance somewhere – most likely from this group.

 

I’ll look into my long-ago notes and see if I can find something.  But hopefully somebody else with more knowledge and experience will step in here.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

I’ve not heard of a procedure for lubricating the clutches on these mounts.

 

Do you have a pointer to instructions?  My AP1600 declination clutch is pretty stiff, and has been since day one, but it’s nothing that’s a problem to work with.  I’m mainly just curious.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

Jack,

 

That does seem like a lot of friction.  I’m not sure about the AP1600’s clutch mechanism, but I suspect my old Mach1 is similar.  And in that case, the clutch system can be lubricated independently of the drive gear system.  And it’s a lot easier too.

 

Another suggestion.  You mention the electronic fish scale balancing system (which is my preference) for balancing.  But have you tried the motor current load method to see how well that might work for you?  I’m pretty sure you already have a PowerWerx voltage/current meter.  So you can try that method and see if it works any better for you.  When slewing (I used slow slew speeds) the motor current load should be the same in both directions.

 

But I’d start with re-greasing the clutch system first.  And so far as I understand it, that doesn’t require the fancy greases that come in the AP grease kit.  In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the clutch parts do better with a different kind of grease.  I believe I used a SuperLube synthetic grease for my clutch bearings.

 

I know that when I re-greased the clutch bearing system in my Mach1, it made a lot of difference.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

W Hilmo
 

I’ve not heard of a procedure for lubricating the clutches on these mounts.

 

Do you have a pointer to instructions?  My AP1600 declination clutch is pretty stiff, and has been since day one, but it’s nothing that’s a problem to work with.  I’m mainly just curious.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

Jack,

 

That does seem like a lot of friction.  I’m not sure about the AP1600’s clutch mechanism, but I suspect my old Mach1 is similar.  And in that case, the clutch system can be lubricated independently of the drive gear system.  And it’s a lot easier too.

 

Another suggestion.  You mention the electronic fish scale balancing system (which is my preference) for balancing.  But have you tried the motor current load method to see how well that might work for you?  I’m pretty sure you already have a PowerWerx voltage/current meter.  So you can try that method and see if it works any better for you.  When slewing (I used slow slew speeds) the motor current load should be the same in both directions.

 

But I’d start with re-greasing the clutch system first.  And so far as I understand it, that doesn’t require the fancy greases that come in the AP grease kit.  In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the clutch parts do better with a different kind of grease.  I believe I used a SuperLube synthetic grease for my clutch bearings.

 

I know that when I re-greased the clutch bearing system in my Mach1, it made a lot of difference.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


VIDEO - Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount

Harley Davidson
 

I ended up "modifying" an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP so it would work with the 1600GTO Mount.

Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULDkyZh4GqM


tony


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Woody Schlom
 

Jack,

 

That does seem like a lot of friction.  I’m not sure about the AP1600’s clutch mechanism, but I suspect my old Mach1 is similar.  And in that case, the clutch system can be lubricated independently of the drive gear system.  And it’s a lot easier too.

 

Another suggestion.  You mention the electronic fish scale balancing system (which is my preference) for balancing.  But have you tried the motor current load method to see how well that might work for you?  I’m pretty sure you already have a PowerWerx voltage/current meter.  So you can try that method and see if it works any better for you.  When slewing (I used slow slew speeds) the motor current load should be the same in both directions.

 

But I’d start with re-greasing the clutch system first.  And so far as I understand it, that doesn’t require the fancy greases that come in the AP grease kit.  In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the clutch parts do better with a different kind of grease.  I believe I used a SuperLube synthetic grease for my clutch bearings.

 

I know that when I re-greased the clutch bearing system in my Mach1, it made a lot of difference.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Bill Long
 

Not sure what the procedure is on a Mach 1, but the only mistake I made was having the motor box cover slip out from my grip and the black lead on the motor popped off. Totally avoidable problem. The rest was gravy and pretty easy.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Fernando Proietti <fernandoaproietti@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?
 
+1 for a video. I have a Mach1. I am outside the US and I am not mechanically wise or inspired to risk damaging the mouny. If repair is needed, it will be quite expensive to send the mount to AP and back. That is my reason asking for a video.

Regards, Fernando


Em seg., 8 de mar. de 2021 às 12:33, Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> escreveu:
Definitely a video!

cytan

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 09:30:21 AM CST, Andrew Jones <andjones132@...> wrote:


Hi Bill.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know you to be a very knowledgeable amateur astronomer based on your many useful and helpful post on the forum. If someone with your level expertise struggled with this re-greasing process the first time, to point of actually damaging the mount, does not give me warm and fuzzys about attempting the process myself. Given the recommendation that all owners of AP mounts should be performing this maintenance ever 2 - 5 years would indicate a strong demand for clear and concise instructions for each mount. I am sure we could all call George and have him walk us through the process step by step, but it would seem easier (for AP) if we could just get a step-by-step guide or even better a YouTube Video showing each step in detail. I am going to hold off with re-greasing my Mach1 from 2016 for now until hopefully some better instructions come along. 

Thanks again for sharing your experience. 

Andrew J


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Fernando Proietti
 

+1 for a video. I have a Mach1. I am outside the US and I am not mechanically wise or inspired to risk damaging the mouny. If repair is needed, it will be quite expensive to send the mount to AP and back. That is my reason asking for a video.

Regards, Fernando


Em seg., 8 de mar. de 2021 às 12:33, Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> escreveu:

Definitely a video!

cytan

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 09:30:21 AM CST, Andrew Jones <andjones132@...> wrote:


Hi Bill.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know you to be a very knowledgeable amateur astronomer based on your many useful and helpful post on the forum. If someone with your level expertise struggled with this re-greasing process the first time, to point of actually damaging the mount, does not give me warm and fuzzys about attempting the process myself. Given the recommendation that all owners of AP mounts should be performing this maintenance ever 2 - 5 years would indicate a strong demand for clear and concise instructions for each mount. I am sure we could all call George and have him walk us through the process step by step, but it would seem easier (for AP) if we could just get a step-by-step guide or even better a YouTube Video showing each step in detail. I am going to hold off with re-greasing my Mach1 from 2016 for now until hopefully some better instructions come along. 

Thanks again for sharing your experience. 

Andrew J


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

M Hambrick
 

Hi Bryan. Here are the instructions:

I would like to offer one word of caution based on my former experience as an auto mechanic: The instructions mention using mineral spirits to clean off the old grease. I would recommend doing this only as a last resort because even a tiny amount of residual solvent will significantly reduce the viscosity of the grease and reduce its effectiveness. I recommend wiping off as much of the old grease as you can with a clean cloth and don't worry about the rest. You should not see any metal flakes in the old grease. If you do, you should contact Astro-Physics. 

I have never regreased my 1100 mount (purchased in 2017), but I am planning to upgrade it with absolute encoders as soon as they have any available, and I will regrease it when I install the encoders.

Mike


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

George
 

Brian,

 

Contact me and I’ll email the grease instructions.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Worsel via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 8:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

 

The instructions I received with the grease kit was 1/2 page (attached).

Seems like there is something missing; although this was a couple years ago.

I got the job done with this forum and online videos anyway.

Bryan


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Jack Huerkamp
 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Roland Christen
 

Please do.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Hi Bryan

Your 1/2 page instruction sheet looks nothing like the instructions that came with my regreasing kit. The instructions that I got with my kit are 10 pages with photos. I am not sure if I need permission from A-P to upload a scanned copy of the instructions, but I will assume that if nobody from A-P tells me not to do so, I will upload them at the end of today.

Mike

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

M Hambrick
 

Hi Bryan

Your 1/2 page instruction sheet looks nothing like the instructions that came with my regreasing kit. The instructions that I got with my kit are 10 pages with photos. I am not sure if I need permission from A-P to upload a scanned copy of the instructions, but I will assume that if nobody from A-P tells me not to do so, I will upload them at the end of today.

Mike

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