Date   

Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Worsel
 

Mike

Thanks for the upload!  They are much more useful than the one I received.

George: Thanks for the offer.  As you know, I got the file from Mike.

RE: Solvent.

I was not keen on mineral spirits just from a personal exposure perspective.  I used 99% isopropyl alcohol (IPA).  It removes solvent well AND evaporates quickly.  Since it is just one compound, rather than a mix, it should all evaporate, rather than leave a less volatile compound from the mix behind.

To be clear, IPA is also hazardous, but less so than mineral spirits.

See pics for before and after of worm wheel.


Bryan


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Woody Schlom
 

Actually it’s not the clutch surfaces that need lubrication, but the clutch bearings – which are not ball or roller bearings – at least on the original Mach1.

 

And in just looking this up in my Mach1 manual, I see that not all AP mounts use the same systems.  My Mach1 manual states that its clutch system is different than the AP-900 and AP-1200 and has more friction than either of them.  So the AP-1600 could be completely different.

 

And no, it’s been so long since I re-greased my Mach1’s clutch bearings, I don’t remember how I did it.  But it did NOT involve getting into the drive gears at all.

 

I’m not usually one to just tear down a fine mount without guidance, so I must have found some guidance somewhere – most likely from this group.

 

I’ll look into my long-ago notes and see if I can find something.  But hopefully somebody else with more knowledge and experience will step in here.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 2:13 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

I’ve not heard of a procedure for lubricating the clutches on these mounts.

 

Do you have a pointer to instructions?  My AP1600 declination clutch is pretty stiff, and has been since day one, but it’s nothing that’s a problem to work with.  I’m mainly just curious.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

Jack,

 

That does seem like a lot of friction.  I’m not sure about the AP1600’s clutch mechanism, but I suspect my old Mach1 is similar.  And in that case, the clutch system can be lubricated independently of the drive gear system.  And it’s a lot easier too.

 

Another suggestion.  You mention the electronic fish scale balancing system (which is my preference) for balancing.  But have you tried the motor current load method to see how well that might work for you?  I’m pretty sure you already have a PowerWerx voltage/current meter.  So you can try that method and see if it works any better for you.  When slewing (I used slow slew speeds) the motor current load should be the same in both directions.

 

But I’d start with re-greasing the clutch system first.  And so far as I understand it, that doesn’t require the fancy greases that come in the AP grease kit.  In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the clutch parts do better with a different kind of grease.  I believe I used a SuperLube synthetic grease for my clutch bearings.

 

I know that when I re-greased the clutch bearing system in my Mach1, it made a lot of difference.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

W Hilmo
 

I’ve not heard of a procedure for lubricating the clutches on these mounts.

 

Do you have a pointer to instructions?  My AP1600 declination clutch is pretty stiff, and has been since day one, but it’s nothing that’s a problem to work with.  I’m mainly just curious.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Woody Schlom
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:49 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

Jack,

 

That does seem like a lot of friction.  I’m not sure about the AP1600’s clutch mechanism, but I suspect my old Mach1 is similar.  And in that case, the clutch system can be lubricated independently of the drive gear system.  And it’s a lot easier too.

 

Another suggestion.  You mention the electronic fish scale balancing system (which is my preference) for balancing.  But have you tried the motor current load method to see how well that might work for you?  I’m pretty sure you already have a PowerWerx voltage/current meter.  So you can try that method and see if it works any better for you.  When slewing (I used slow slew speeds) the motor current load should be the same in both directions.

 

But I’d start with re-greasing the clutch system first.  And so far as I understand it, that doesn’t require the fancy greases that come in the AP grease kit.  In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the clutch parts do better with a different kind of grease.  I believe I used a SuperLube synthetic grease for my clutch bearings.

 

I know that when I re-greased the clutch bearing system in my Mach1, it made a lot of difference.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


VIDEO - Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount

Harley Davidson
 

I ended up "modifying" an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP so it would work with the 1600GTO Mount.

Modifying an Astro-Physics DOVEKREP to fit a 1600GTO Mount
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULDkyZh4GqM


tony


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Woody Schlom
 

Jack,

 

That does seem like a lot of friction.  I’m not sure about the AP1600’s clutch mechanism, but I suspect my old Mach1 is similar.  And in that case, the clutch system can be lubricated independently of the drive gear system.  And it’s a lot easier too.

 

Another suggestion.  You mention the electronic fish scale balancing system (which is my preference) for balancing.  But have you tried the motor current load method to see how well that might work for you?  I’m pretty sure you already have a PowerWerx voltage/current meter.  So you can try that method and see if it works any better for you.  When slewing (I used slow slew speeds) the motor current load should be the same in both directions.

 

But I’d start with re-greasing the clutch system first.  And so far as I understand it, that doesn’t require the fancy greases that come in the AP grease kit.  In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the clutch parts do better with a different kind of grease.  I believe I used a SuperLube synthetic grease for my clutch bearings.

 

I know that when I re-greased the clutch bearing system in my Mach1, it made a lot of difference.

 

Woody

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jack Huerkamp
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 7:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Bill Long
 

Not sure what the procedure is on a Mach 1, but the only mistake I made was having the motor box cover slip out from my grip and the black lead on the motor popped off. Totally avoidable problem. The rest was gravy and pretty easy.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Fernando Proietti <fernandoaproietti@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 11:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?
 
+1 for a video. I have a Mach1. I am outside the US and I am not mechanically wise or inspired to risk damaging the mouny. If repair is needed, it will be quite expensive to send the mount to AP and back. That is my reason asking for a video.

Regards, Fernando


Em seg., 8 de mar. de 2021 às 12:33, Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> escreveu:
Definitely a video!

cytan

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 09:30:21 AM CST, Andrew Jones <andjones132@...> wrote:


Hi Bill.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know you to be a very knowledgeable amateur astronomer based on your many useful and helpful post on the forum. If someone with your level expertise struggled with this re-greasing process the first time, to point of actually damaging the mount, does not give me warm and fuzzys about attempting the process myself. Given the recommendation that all owners of AP mounts should be performing this maintenance ever 2 - 5 years would indicate a strong demand for clear and concise instructions for each mount. I am sure we could all call George and have him walk us through the process step by step, but it would seem easier (for AP) if we could just get a step-by-step guide or even better a YouTube Video showing each step in detail. I am going to hold off with re-greasing my Mach1 from 2016 for now until hopefully some better instructions come along. 

Thanks again for sharing your experience. 

Andrew J


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Fernando Proietti
 

+1 for a video. I have a Mach1. I am outside the US and I am not mechanically wise or inspired to risk damaging the mouny. If repair is needed, it will be quite expensive to send the mount to AP and back. That is my reason asking for a video.

Regards, Fernando


Em seg., 8 de mar. de 2021 às 12:33, Cheng-Yang Tan via groups.io <cytan299=yahoo.com@groups.io> escreveu:

Definitely a video!

cytan

On Monday, March 8, 2021, 09:30:21 AM CST, Andrew Jones <andjones132@...> wrote:


Hi Bill.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I know you to be a very knowledgeable amateur astronomer based on your many useful and helpful post on the forum. If someone with your level expertise struggled with this re-greasing process the first time, to point of actually damaging the mount, does not give me warm and fuzzys about attempting the process myself. Given the recommendation that all owners of AP mounts should be performing this maintenance ever 2 - 5 years would indicate a strong demand for clear and concise instructions for each mount. I am sure we could all call George and have him walk us through the process step by step, but it would seem easier (for AP) if we could just get a step-by-step guide or even better a YouTube Video showing each step in detail. I am going to hold off with re-greasing my Mach1 from 2016 for now until hopefully some better instructions come along. 

Thanks again for sharing your experience. 

Andrew J


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

M Hambrick
 

Hi Bryan. Here are the instructions:

I would like to offer one word of caution based on my former experience as an auto mechanic: The instructions mention using mineral spirits to clean off the old grease. I would recommend doing this only as a last resort because even a tiny amount of residual solvent will significantly reduce the viscosity of the grease and reduce its effectiveness. I recommend wiping off as much of the old grease as you can with a clean cloth and don't worry about the rest. You should not see any metal flakes in the old grease. If you do, you should contact Astro-Physics. 

I have never regreased my 1100 mount (purchased in 2017), but I am planning to upgrade it with absolute encoders as soon as they have any available, and I will regrease it when I install the encoders.

Mike


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

George
 

Brian,

 

Contact me and I’ll email the grease instructions.

 

Regards,

 

George

 

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone:  815-222-6538 (direct line)

Phone:  815-282-1513 (office)

Email:  george@...

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Worsel via groups.io
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 8:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

 

The instructions I received with the grease kit was 1/2 page (attached).

Seems like there is something missing; although this was a couple years ago.

I got the job done with this forum and online videos anyway.

Bryan


Re: Quick Release Gearbox Modification for Older AP1600

Jack Huerkamp
 

JimP, granted the AP1600 offers resistance to movement even when the clutch knobs are fully loosened.  In my case it takes between 10# and 15# of pull measured with an electronic fish scale to break the friction and get the mount to move in either RA or Dec.  I try to balance the mount by checking the pull needed in both directions and getting them as close to equal as possible.  But getting a precise balance is impossible.  That is why I asked if AP was going to offer an upgraded quick release worm mechanism like they have on the current AP1600 mounts.  Quickly releasing the worm from the worm gear allows for easy and precise balancing.

Jack Huerkamp


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Roland Christen
 

Please do.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Mar 9, 2021 9:20 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Hi Bryan

Your 1/2 page instruction sheet looks nothing like the instructions that came with my regreasing kit. The instructions that I got with my kit are 10 pages with photos. I am not sure if I need permission from A-P to upload a scanned copy of the instructions, but I will assume that if nobody from A-P tells me not to do so, I will upload them at the end of today.

Mike

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

M Hambrick
 

Hi Bryan

Your 1/2 page instruction sheet looks nothing like the instructions that came with my regreasing kit. The instructions that I got with my kit are 10 pages with photos. I am not sure if I need permission from A-P to upload a scanned copy of the instructions, but I will assume that if nobody from A-P tells me not to do so, I will upload them at the end of today.

Mike


Re: C14 and AP160 side by side?

Peter Bresler
 

I piggyback a SV130 on Planewave 12.5 on my 1200.


Re: C14 and AP160 side by side?

Francois Regembal
 

Thanks a lot for your feedback!

Kent: I don't intend on imaging with both scope at the same time. Having them side by side would simply allow me to shift the imager between scopes depending on targets (basically exoplanet transits thru the C14 and imaging thru the AP160)

Christopher: indeed an AP1600 would be happier but my name came up for this current AP1100 run so... Also, the mount will be mostly used in an observatory but I want to be able to take it to darker skies every now and then

Bryan: thanks for directing me to this way of fine tuning mount balancing!

Chip: great feedback too: I may need to allow for delays in ACP after slews

Thanks again!

Francois


Re: Mo videos :)

Harley Davidson
 

Thanks Andrew. I don't have a dome but would assume as long as the widest overall separation of either scope from the centerline of the Dec axis in PARK 3 isn't less than 13.5" in your case you should be fine. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

tony

On 3/8/2021 11:02 AM, Andrew Jones wrote:
Hi Tony.

Great Videos. Thanks for sharing. A quick question if you don't mind. I have seen it mentioned several times here on the forum, that if someone plans on using a second scope for guiding (rather than an OAG) then ring mounting the guides scope to the primary OTA is not a good idea due to flexure. I heard that it is better to either mount the guide scope directly on the focuser using something like AP's 10 x 60 Vario Finder with Quick Release Guider Bracket Kit. (1060VGKIT) or to use a side-by-side mount like you show in your videos. I am curious if using a side-by-side setup would be a problem inside a dome? I have a 8" ExploraDome and I think the shutter opening is like 27" wide. So I guess as long as the two scopes do not span a distance more than this width then it should be OK. I was just curious if you or anyone else here has experience using a side-by-side in a dome?

Thanks again for sharing the videos. Always exciting to see other AP Mount setups. 

Andrew J


Re: How much dew is too much?

Dale Ghent
 

Heavy dew for one person is light dew for another, so some context of what that means might help. Have you ran into this problem or are wondering just in case?

I’ve never worried about my CP3. The heat it gives off seems to be enough to ward off the typical mid-Atlantic US, near-sea level temperate suburban climate types of dew that I experience. If I were worried about it, the only drastic measure I think I would take would be to wrap an old t-shirt or other cloth around it to help retain some heat and soak up any drips, and then be on my way. 

I imagine that the amount of heat that the CP4/5 puts off isn’t terribly different and perhaps might even be a little more than the CP3 owing to its embedded system. If you’re worried, use the power covers like Bill said. You can also get small RJ11/12-sized rubber inserts for the ST4 guide port if you aren’t using that. 

On Mar 9, 2021, at 03:46, Bob <astro@...> wrote:

This question is only in reference to the GTO mount, not the ota. So is it only the control box that should be protected against a heavy dew? Aside from the socket covers, does anyone use anything like a dew shield for the control box? Or is it not necessary?

Thanks
Bob


Re: How to Re-grease a Mach1 with Auto-Adjust Motor Boxes?

Sébastien Doré
 

Found this a while back. It’s the auto-adjusting gearbox version. Thought it might help.

https://m.imgur.com/a/f2ab2pY

Sébastien 


Re: How much dew is too much?

Bill Long
 

Not necessary. Use the plug covers though since they really aren't doing you any good in a bag. But, even in the absence of that, the CP boxes from AP are bullet proof. A believe Roland says only a direct lightning strike could harm them.

With that said though, they aren't waterproof. So don't leave them out in the rain, hurricane, tsunami, etc.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bob <astro@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:45 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-gto] How much dew is too much?
 
This question is only in reference to the GTO mount, not the ota. So is it only the control box that should be protected against a heavy dew? Aside from the socket covers, does anyone use anything like a dew shield for the control box? Or is it not necessary?

Thanks
Bob


How much dew is too much?

Bob
 

This question is only in reference to the GTO mount, not the ota. So is it only the control box that should be protected against a heavy dew? Aside from the socket covers, does anyone use anything like a dew shield for the control box? Or is it not necessary?

Thanks
Bob


Re: C14 and AP160 side by side?

weems@...
 

I have a C14 with carbon fiber tube and dew shield side by side with an AP 6”f9 on my 900. It’s fine for visual, but would be pushing it for photography. I have the slewing rate set at 600 and it doesn’t strain at all, with careful balance. But it does take a couple of seconds to damp. At one point I had them in some kind of symmetrical geometry so vibrations would pass back and forth between the tubes for more than ten seconds, with a long period beat frequency. But a weight on the tail of the refractor, and shifting it forward fixed that. The 900 is close enough to being usable for photos that I expect an 1100 would manage with some care in setting up. Of course, a 1600 would probably not be at all challenged by this load. 


Chip

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