Date   

Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Micheal Fields Jr
 
Edited

That is a nice short repeater/booster for sure. My issue with it is that it has a female connection and so does the mount.  So I would have to add yet another connection between.  My computer is right next to the female USB3 slot in the bottom of the mount and I am using a 1 foot USB 3.0 cable.   If the signal and voltage drops that much along a 1 foot cable that I would need a repeater at the end of it, I am not sure what I am even doing.

I have a total of 48 inches from the port on the PC to the 12v powered hub. That includes the 18"? that is inside the mount.  I have 24 inches after the hub to the camera.  I have ordered new cables and the Pegasus usb hub.  I'll know more in a week.



On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 08:39 AM, Allen Ruckle wrote:
Michael,
        I had problems with USB3 due to the length of the cable needed,  I purchased a 15' USB 3.0 active cable and it greatly improved things it did not eliminate every issue.  In searching for a product to solve USB cable length issues, I found a product that is specifically designed to improve USB 3 signal, and to stabilize the power .  It is basically the active element of a USB 3.0 Active cable that is about a foot long.
 you install it between your computer connection and USB 3 cable to the mount.  It is designed for problems with Tethered cameras.

  The product is named TetherBoost Pro USB 3.0   core controller.  here is the description from the manufacturer.  The TetherBoost Pro USB 3.0 Core Controller alleviates a common problem amongst USB 3.0 camera and digital back users who are experiencing dropped tethering connections or are unable to get a tethered connection started at all.

   
https://tethertools.com/product/tetherboost-pro-core-controller/

aruckle


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Worsel
 

Ron

APPM is installed as part of APPC-Pro; hence, APPM version is the same as APPC-Pro.  The latest is 1.8.8.13.  I do not think you can install APPM separately.

Bryan


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

deonb
 

Ray mentioned support in it for 1.9 in December, not 1.8.9
https://ap-gto.groups.io/g/main/message/74821

(Not that it matter much, just in case someone searches this thread in the future and confused about it when/if there is a 1.8.9)


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

 

>>> To still be using SGP over NINA only means you've never given NINA a shot. 

i appreciated your comments until this part - you're wrong on this. 


I've tried NINA and used it for a while and i don't care for it. There are a lot of ways it works that i don't like. 

I'm not a fanboy of SGP, but for me it's definitely the best out there right now, and I have many other software apps i use: ACP, TSX, NINA, etc.

My software preference is always evolving, so i'm sure i will give it a try again in the future, along with voyager, 


Brian
 

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:31 AM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...> wrote:

Price is moot. Like me the people switching had bought and paid for SGP.  I will say "SGP worked" for me for 2 years. I didn't like it. But it worked. I tried others that didn't work so well and I was driven back to SGP again and again.  Until I found NINA.  I have already donated more in payment than I paid for SGP.  And I will donate much more over time.  It is that good. 

While SGP may work.  It lacks the features and open-minded devs that NINA has.  Things as simple as a dark skin, or debayered sub preview are basics in NINA and were down right refused by SGP devs.  Now with the alpha release of the new Sequencer in NINA... it's all over.   I can tell NINA to wait for my target to pop up over my tree tops and shoot subs until it peeks behind my other treetops.   Or at 11pm slew to my next target and shoot it until nautical dawn or the target drops behind my tree line or house. (if it was ever in the way).

If you are satisfied with SGP because it works.  You're depriving yourself of greatness.  Though some may ride a bike vs a Ferrari to work - because well...  it also works. 

To still be using SGP over NINA only means you've never given NINA a shot. 



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Dale Ghent
 

Ray has already said that APPM will be able to use ASTAP directly in the upcoming 1.8.9 version. I have already said that NINA's SGPro API emulation is to the point where APPM can take images through NINA. Work is still ongoing but, in the end, APPM will be able to drive the a pointing model session using only these two apps when the 1.8.9 is released. I'm not aware of when this will be available, as that's Ray's and A-P's purview.

/dale

On Jan 14, 2021, at 12:31, Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@gmail.com> wrote:

Price is moot. Like me the people switching had bought and paid for SGP. I will say "SGP worked" for me for 2 years. I didn't like it. But it worked. I tried others that didn't work so well and I was driven back to SGP again and again. Until I found NINA. I have already donated more in payment than I paid for SGP. And I will donate much more over time. It is that good.

While SGP may work. It lacks the features and open-minded devs that NINA has. Things as simple as a dark skin, or debayered sub preview are basics in NINA and were down right refused by SGP devs. Now with the alpha release of the new Sequencer in NINA... it's all over. I can tell NINA to wait for my target to pop up over my tree tops and shoot subs until it peeks behind my other treetops. Or at 11pm slew to my next target and shoot it until nautical dawn or the target drops behind my tree line or house. (if it was ever in the way).

If you are satisfied with SGP because it works. You're depriving yourself of greatness. Though some may ride a bike vs a Ferrari to work - because well... it also works.

To still be using SGP over NINA only means you've never given NINA a shot.



Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Ron Kramer
 

Price is moot. Like me the people switching had bought and paid for SGP.  I will say "SGP worked" for me for 2 years. I didn't like it. But it worked. I tried others that didn't work so well and I was driven back to SGP again and again.  Until I found NINA.  I have already donated more in payment than I paid for SGP.  And I will donate much more over time.  It is that good. 

While SGP may work.  It lacks the features and open-minded devs that NINA has.  Things as simple as a dark skin, or debayered sub preview are basics in NINA and were down right refused by SGP devs.  Now with the alpha release of the new Sequencer in NINA... it's all over.   I can tell NINA to wait for my target to pop up over my tree tops and shoot subs until it peeks behind my other treetops.   Or at 11pm slew to my next target and shoot it until nautical dawn or the target drops behind my tree line or house. (if it was ever in the way).

If you are satisfied with SGP because it works.  You're depriving yourself of greatness.  Though some may ride a bike vs a Ferrari to work - because well...  it also works. 

To still be using SGP over NINA only means you've never given NINA a shot. 


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Ron Kramer
 

Not getting anywhere. I may have to work on my SGP install again = (

skyview loads - but won't solve - it wants SGP no other options under the plate solve tab which I can use. I with my stand alone ASTAP install would be supported.

Clicking  SKIP PLATE SOLVES (for Testing) does not and  errors at the missing solver. 

I need this, I typically can not trace unguided for over a minute without elongated stars.  Sadly only about 3 minutes with guiding before elongated stars.

I have improved guiding a LITTLE from the advice of a group member but not where it should be.  So ordered a new guide scope as mine is junk... I will do some major hardware layout changes and see if I can reduce the ridiculous 72lbs of counter weight on my lowly mach1 and see if I can get back to  .30 total RMS error like that of a  couple years ago. 

 

My APPM version is  1.7.1.5  from 2019  is that the latest available? 


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

 

>>>With the HORDES of people moving from SGP to NINA... it would be worthy of a APPM update? 

That's a bit hyperbolic? :) NINA Is free (for now?) so it of course is going to attract more people

SGP has worked flawlessly for me with APPM and APCC.

I expect an initial platesolve to take longer in any plate solver, but once that's completed successfully, subsequent plate solves should be in seconds for platesolve2, astap, etc. 

if it's taking longer, then there is likely a problem somewhere else, either in the plate solve settings, your coordinates/time, etc.

Brian



Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Ron Kramer
 

RAY thanks testing with NASA skyview now.  I tried to reinstall SGP (as I had deleted it) and I couldn't get APPM to be happy with the install. Com port issues - dome not slaving... I closed SGP and went back to NINA for the night and continued to have a slew of issues. (I think com ports were jumbled). Next day after full power down NINA was perfect again. 

I still want to use APPM for a pointing model. I just read your above msg and selected NASA... but to make the model I need to do real pointing.  Is there a way I can use NINA and not run SGP?   NINA also uses ASTAP which solves in under 2 seconds... were as with SGP I used platesolve2 which IF IT WORKS takes 30+ seconds and when I tried it with APPM the solves were never successful. 

With the HORDES of people moving from SGP to NINA... it would be worthy of a APPM update? 


Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Allen Ruckle
 

Michael,
        I had problems with USB3 due to the length of the cable needed,  I purchased a 15' USB 3.0 active cable and it greatly improved things it did not eliminate every issue.  In searching for a product to solve USB cable length issues, I found a product that is specifically designed to improve USB 3 signal, and to stabilize the power .  It is basically the active element of a USB 3.0 Active cable that is about a foot long.
 you install it between your computer connection and USB 3 cable to the mount.  It is designed for problems with Tethered cameras.

  The product is named TetherBoost Pro USB 3.0   core controller.  here is the description from the manufacturer.  The TetherBoost Pro USB 3.0 Core Controller alleviates a common problem amongst USB 3.0 camera and digital back users who are experiencing dropped tethering connections or are unable to get a tethered connection started at all.

   
https://tethertools.com/product/tetherboost-pro-core-controller/

aruckle


Re: safe way to load the OTA on the MACH2

Peter Bresler
 

Those weights were just a down payment. Its practically maxed out with the guide scope (also piggy backed for separate use.)


Re: APPM - The Sky X "can not establish active x component" when solution invoked

Dale Ghent
 

On Jan 14, 2021, at 10:08, Tom Ellis <tom@makanahouse.com> wrote:

The Active X service in W10 is running (did both Manual and Auto settings) still no joy! I have three W10 machines and they all report the same problem when trying to plate solve. Anyone have an idea? All apps have the latest updates including W10
Run TSX as Administrator once, and then running it as a non-Admin will work after that. It's not a very well-documented requirement to get TSX's ActiveX interfaces registered with Windows, which it can do only if it's running as Admin.

/dale


APPM - The Sky X "can not establish active x component" when solution invoked

Tom Ellis
 

The Active X service in W10 is running (did both Manual and Auto settings)  still no joy!  I have three W10 machines and they all report the same problem when trying to plate solve.  Anyone have an idea? All apps have the latest updates including W10


Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Terri Zittritsch
 

Michael, you're right, I did not watch the video initially, but I just watched it and it didn't tell me a lot more than what you shared above.   I didn't notice any mention of an active repeater cable in the video.   The active repeater I have will not only allow a 15' length of USB3 from my computer to the active repeater head, it also drives 15' in the mount direction (which is longer than run-of-the-mill USB3 (which doesn't really have a length spec, but generally accepted length of 3M is what people go by).    It worked for me.  My opinion remains the same, that your cabling inside the mount has some signal loss issues.   The talk of industrial hubs (expensive) doesn't really mean they do anything electrically better than your computer or a cheap hub.  I remember when I initially raised the USB3 issue, I was told to go buy XYZ 'industrial' hub, and when I looked at the electrical specifications, they were no better than my $20 hub.   Now I didn't scour the market for something better, but these small hub companies aren't building custom silicon to do the job, they're using the same silicon that every other hub maker is using..off-the-shelf standard products.    

good luck,
Terri


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:16 PM, Micheal Fields Jr wrote:
HI Terri,

Not sure if you just skimmed my post and didn't watch the video but I went through all of that in my testing point for point.  There should be two contact points in the Mach2.  One at the base of the mount and one up near the saddle plate.  Roland says the length of that cable is about 18 inches.   I bought a 3 foot female/female cable to duplicate the mount cable but on the outside.  This cable also has two contact points.   Simply swapping that "pretend" internal cable solves the problem completely.  I also have a computer that sits currently on the eyepiece tray of my tripod and has a short cable going to the mount.   I also tried to put a powered industrial USB hub between that computer and the mount just in case the USB port on the PC was weak.  Made no difference.  Then at the saddle I have a 3 foot cable going to the hub which is another industrial powered 4  port hub.  
There is no getting around it.  The internal cable has something wrong.  Not wrong enough that some devices won't work but wrong enough that when reaching to a higher point it can't remain reliable. If I had found that it must be flaky drivers for the camera or under powered hubs etc, then that is one thing but if I just swap the cable and it works as it should then it is not signal loss related to what I am doing.  Give my video a look if you have time.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text


Re: At What Temp Do I Need 15V For My AP 1100 Mount?

Kent10
 

Hi Alex,

This is great.  Thanks so much for all your help!

Kent


Re: At What Temp Do I Need 15V For My AP 1100 Mount?

Alex
 

Hi Kent,

Here is another app (http://www.westmountainradio.com/find_cable_size.php) that I find useful when designing cables as it shows you the amount of voltage and power loss associated with various cable gauges based upon length, voltage at source, and current. Because you are concerned with maintaining a high voltage at the mount this app will highlight the amount of voltage drop associated with the length of cable, the gauge, and the current of the cable you will be using to connect your battery to the mount. The thicker the gauge the less voltage drop. That is why I use high quality, thin strand, 10 gauge pure copper wire to connect my battery to the mount. Not a huge difference, but every little bit helps.

One note, this app does not calculate losses due to the termination techniques used. You could Google the connectors or get a good meter and measure them if you were interested. Once again, typically not a big issue unless poorly terminated.

One last note, I use an inline power meter to monitor voltage, current, power of my batteries. At first, I would pay attention to the meter but after a while I discovered I was always in the sweet spot of the power draw on the battery and was typically at 13.2 or higher volts for most of the evening, night and paid less attention to the meter.

Best,
Alex


Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Roland Christen
 


Regarding cable wrapped around the shaft, what can I as an end user do about that?
Nothing whatsoever. The cable is wrapped 1/2 way around in either direction internally as the mount rotates from one side to the other. It's not what you think, it's routed that way inside the mount.

Roland

-----Original Message-----
From: Micheal Fields Jr via groups.io <mpfjr@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2021 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

I just ordered a Pegasus Astro USB hub thingy that you recommended.  I like it anyways so it was a good buy.

I also ordered two short 1 foot USB 3.0 A to B cables and will be able to go from the output on the mount to that hub by a 1 foot cable.  And my little computer will go from itself to the bottom of the mount by the shortest cable I can find.  I have a 2 foot USB Type C to USB 3.0 Type A cable and my PC has a USB Type C output. I have noticed things actually work much better if I use that output instead.  unfortunately other than charging cables for phones I can't find a short one. 

Regarding cable wrapped around the shaft, what can I as an end user do about that?  

But lets wait then and see if going with super short cables and putting the Pegasus hub under the saddle plate(or on top if there is room) will fix this. 


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:11 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
One thing that may be happening with the internal cable is that it is inside the metal shafts and wraps partially around the Dec shaft before exiting out the back. That may distort the waveform enough if the signal is marginal.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique <d.h.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2021 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:51 PM, Liam Plybon wrote:
o make your setup work, you need to either:
  1. Get shorter cables between the camera, mount and computer
  2. Use an active cable between the computer and mount
  3. Use a powered, USB hub at the base or top of the mount along with shorter cables. 
Otherwise, your setup will keep giving you these errors. I promise that this error is not caused by a mechanical issue in the cable, because if there was any kind of problem you wouldn't have been able to recognize the device in the first place. USB 3.0 is too finicky to work on damaged cables. 
Thanks Liam,
This explains why it works rather for me.
the Pegasus V2 powerbox at the top of mount and a powered USB3 Hub at the base connected to an active extension cable.
Dominique

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Micheal Fields Jr
 

I just ordered a Pegasus Astro USB hub thingy that you recommended.  I like it anyways so it was a good buy.

I also ordered two short 1 foot USB 3.0 A to B cables and will be able to go from the output on the mount to that hub by a 1 foot cable.  And my little computer will go from itself to the bottom of the mount by the shortest cable I can find.  I have a 2 foot USB Type C to USB 3.0 Type A cable and my PC has a USB Type C output. I have noticed things actually work much better if I use that output instead.  unfortunately other than charging cables for phones I can't find a short one. 

Regarding cable wrapped around the shaft, what can I as an end user do about that?  

But lets wait then and see if going with super short cables and putting the Pegasus hub under the saddle plate(or on top if there is room) will fix this. 


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 01:11 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
One thing that may be happening with the internal cable is that it is inside the metal shafts and wraps partially around the Dec shaft before exiting out the back. That may distort the waveform enough if the signal is marginal.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique <d.h.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2021 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:51 PM, Liam Plybon wrote:
o make your setup work, you need to either:
  1. Get shorter cables between the camera, mount and computer
  2. Use an active cable between the computer and mount
  3. Use a powered, USB hub at the base or top of the mount along with shorter cables. 
Otherwise, your setup will keep giving you these errors. I promise that this error is not caused by a mechanical issue in the cable, because if there was any kind of problem you wouldn't have been able to recognize the device in the first place. USB 3.0 is too finicky to work on damaged cables. 
Thanks Liam,
This explains why it works rather for me.
the Pegasus V2 powerbox at the top of mount and a powered USB3 Hub at the base connected to an active extension cable.
Dominique

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Dale Ghent
 

Adding to the confusion, not all cables are the same although they might be outwardly identical.

A notable example are the more consumer-oriented cables which tend to be thinner, primarily for aesthetic and flexibility reasons, but also for cost. Internally, these cables have smaller separation between pairs and use smaller gauge conductors in their construction. This invites issues such as alien crosstalk or even impedance mismatches as the signal travels across different conductor types, gauges, and through connectors that have different qualities.

The golden rule with any data-carrying cable is use only as much as you need and to minimize excess length. Avoiding potential sources of interference is also recommended, such as runs close to and certainly parallel with AC power wiring and nearby 2.4GHz and other ISM band equipment.

Good reading on that latter subject is here:
https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/327216.pdf

Cable quality is important so always choose well-designed and well-constructed cables where it matters and where data rates will truly be at high rates.

/dale

On Jan 13, 2021, at 15:13, Dominique <d.h.durand@orange.fr> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:51 PM, Liam Plybon wrote:
o make your setup work, you need to either:

• Get shorter cables between the camera, mount and computer
• Use an active cable between the computer and mount
• Use a powered, USB hub at the base or top of the mount along with shorter cables.
Otherwise, your setup will keep giving you these errors. I promise that this error is not caused by a mechanical issue in the cable, because if there was any kind of problem you wouldn't have been able to recognize the device in the first place. USB 3.0 is too finicky to work on damaged cables.
Thanks Liam,
This explains why it works rather for me.
the Pegasus V2 powerbox at the top of mount and a powered USB3 Hub at the base connected to an active extension cable.
Dominique


Re: Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

Roland Christen
 

One thing that may be happening with the internal cable is that it is inside the metal shafts and wraps partially around the Dec shaft before exiting out the back. That may distort the waveform enough if the signal is marginal.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique <d.h.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jan 13, 2021 2:13 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Through the mount USB3.0 on Mach2 trouble unrelated to temp

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 12:51 PM, Liam Plybon wrote:
o make your setup work, you need to either:
  1. Get shorter cables between the camera, mount and computer
  2. Use an active cable between the computer and mount
  3. Use a powered, USB hub at the base or top of the mount along with shorter cables. 
Otherwise, your setup will keep giving you these errors. I promise that this error is not caused by a mechanical issue in the cable, because if there was any kind of problem you wouldn't have been able to recognize the device in the first place. USB 3.0 is too finicky to work on damaged cables. 
Thanks Liam,
This explains why it works rather for me.
the Pegasus V2 powerbox at the top of mount and a powered USB3 Hub at the base connected to an active extension cable.
Dominique

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

7601 - 7620 of 83215