Date   

Re: AP1600 autoguiding gone bad

Roland Christen
 

Guide at 1x. Going slower will not help.
Make sure you have a good calibration run.
Remove all backlash compensation, both in the keypad and in the guide software.

If using PHD2, you should first use the mount wizard to find out what you have fundamentally. You can find out things like PE, Dec backlash, sky scintillation and other good stuff.

A good calibration near the celestial equator and meridian is a MUST. Without that, you won't be able to guide successfully.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Bradley via groups.io <bradgregley10@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2021 5:31 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] AP1600 autoguiding gone bad

I have a usually reliable AP1600 mount.
It is slewing fine but autoguiding suddenly went wild a little while ago.
So normally I get very small guide errors .2 to .6 arc sec
guide errors. They suddenly went to 15-20.
I couldn’t get it to callibrate either using relays.

I switched to pulse guiding and I could callibrate.

But guiding is still wild. I tried various settings
for the guiding.

I pulled apart the electronics box and inside it looks lile
new.

I noticed in the driver you can set the guide rate and it was set at 1 so I reduced that to .5 and I can set it lower. I will disconnect the hand controller
tonight in case that is having an effect.

Any suggestions?

I am using SkyX, ascom mount and the AP driver. Its an AP cp3 electronics.

I am able to do plate solving, polar alignment using TPoint so go to’s are working.

Greg

Greg

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


AP1600 autoguiding gone bad

Greg Bradley
 

I have a usually reliable AP1600 mount.
It is slewing fine but autoguiding suddenly went wild a little while ago.
So normally I get very small guide errors .2 to .6 arc sec
guide errors. They suddenly went to 15-20.
I couldn’t get it to callibrate either using relays.

I switched to pulse guiding and I could callibrate.

But guiding is still wild. I tried various settings
for the guiding.

I pulled apart the electronics box and inside it looks lile
new.

I noticed in the driver you can set the guide rate and it was set at 1 so I reduced that to .5 and I can set it lower. I will disconnect the hand controller
tonight in case that is having an effect.

Any suggestions?

I am using SkyX, ascom mount and the AP driver. Its an AP cp3 electronics.

I am able to do plate solving, polar alignment using TPoint so go to’s are working.

Greg

Greg


Re: USB and cold weather

Micheal Fields Jr
 

I do not use video for sure.  Not with this camera.  3 seconds on USB2?  

Interestingly I have an Icron Ranger 2304 which is a USB 2.0 over Cat5e which was allowing me to run long ethernet cable out to my mount in the back yard but use my in home computer to control everything.

I would take about 30 seconds per download.    You are right, I don't love your solution but it is either that or not use the through the mount cabling.  Such a shame.

I just did some experiments.  Bottom line is if I bypass the mounts internal cable, I have zero issues at USB 3 speeds.    You are right though.  USB 2 port doing the same cables resulted in perfect no error images.

Damnit.


Re: USB and cold weather

Roland Christen
 

I think you only need the Pegasus powered hub on the scope.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Micheal Fields Jr via groups.io <mpfjr@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2021 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB and cold weather

Do you have any suggestions?  I was considering the idea of a powered hub with a short cable plugged into the mount bottom and then another hub at the top but I believe there is a limit imposed by Windows on how many hubs you can have.

So it would be PC with USB 3.0 Port > powered hub of some kind > Mach2 in ~~~~ Mach2 out > Pegasus USB 3.1 control box (which seems like a fancy product) > cameras/focuser/MGbox

I also ordered some di-electric silicone grease for the connections.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: USB and cold weather

Xentex
 

You may not love this solution, but if you downgrade the USB cable from the PC to the mount from a USB3 to a USB2 cable then it will likely solve your problem.  Or the cable from the mount to the hub.  Either way, once there's USB2 in the chain it's going to drop back to USB2.

The only downside is download speed.  If you're shooting individual frames you'll probably not notice a difference.  If you're doing video you might, depending on your camera.

With my ASI6200 and its 119MB file sizes, it takes about 3 seconds to download a frame at USB 2 speeds.


Re: USB and cold weather

Micheal Fields Jr
 

Do you have any suggestions?  I was considering the idea of a powered hub with a short cable plugged into the mount bottom and then another hub at the top but I believe there is a limit imposed by Windows on how many hubs you can have.

So it would be PC with USB 3.0 Port > powered hub of some kind > Mach2 in ~~~~ Mach2 out > Pegasus USB 3.1 control box (which seems like a fancy product) > cameras/focuser/MGbox

I also ordered some di-electric silicone grease for the connections.


Re: USB and cold weather

Roland Christen
 

The mount adds 18 inches of cable plus two connectors, which may be a problem for your camera. The USB3 signal from your camera is probably too weak to pass thru the extra length and connections. It may take the signal from a robust hub to go thru the mount axis reliably.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Micheal Fields Jr via groups.io <mpfjr@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jan 9, 2021 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB and cold weather

My camera unfortunately doesn't have a built in usb hub so I can't go from camera to hub.  I am going to further experiment with this later today but at this point the only solution seems to be to not have through the mount cabling which was one of the factors that steered me towards this mount over its competitors.  

I hope I can get this working reliably.   

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: USB and cold weather

Micheal Fields Jr
 

My camera unfortunately doesn't have a built in usb hub so I can't go from camera to hub.  I am going to further experiment with this later today but at this point the only solution seems to be to not have through the mount cabling which was one of the factors that steered me towards this mount over its competitors.  

I hope I can get this working reliably.   


Re: USB and cold weather

Micheal Fields Jr
 

This is the hub I am using. https://www.startech.com/en-us/cards-adapters/st4300usbm   It claims it can go down to 32F as well.  I'll check out the pegasus astro product.  I still find it weird though that if I bypass the mount pass through it works fine.


On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 09:55 AM, Don Anderson wrote:
Micheal
Problem could be related to the cables or the hub. Most consumer/commercial electronics is rated to around 32F(0Celcius). That is not to say that the device will work reliably down to that temp. Failure at 47F is a bit unusual though and suggests something is defective. USB3 is a lot more touchy than USB2. You could have a bad USB3 cable in the mount as well as a failing USB hub. If you are looking for a new robust hub that is good for low (-40F) temp, I would look at the products from Pegasus Astro. I bought one of their USB control hubs to replace my consumer hub that quit working at about 35F. Works great.
Hope this helps
 
Don Anderson
 
 
On Saturday, January 9, 2021, 03:22:22 a.m. MST, Micheal Fields Jr via groups.io <mpfjr@...> wrote:
 
 
I seem to have some errors when I have my stuff out in the cold.  This is california cold at 47F.  Every frame I downloaded had this weird mosaic tile puzzle look to it. Qhy says it is USB CrC errors.

Swapped cables and didn't have luck until I ran a 6 foot cable from my PC to the hub directly bypassing the Mach2 through the mount usb 3 cable.  But it wasn't 100% fixed.  Just a lot better.  Then I brought the whole thing in the house to set up and experiment and shoot video and it all started working again.  The only difference is that inside it is 70F.  I've heard of USB hubs and other electronics get angry when it is cold so I figure that must be it.  

I use the StarTech Industrial metal 12v powered 4 port hub.  I've used this hub for years without issue.  

If I bypass the mount and go direct, I don't have problems  But once I brought all this inside where it is warm, I can go through the mount with very little problems.  Maybe 2 bad frames out of 200.  This hub I have was over 100$ when I originally bought it.  Now it can be had for a steal at $80 on Amazon.  The cables were just whatever Amazon had that had good reviews.

All my cables are minimal length.    Please tell me what cables  you like and what hubs you like?

People from AP, any way for the end user to run my own cable through just in case it turns out to be a finicky cable?  I'd go ahead and upgrade to 3.1 or 3.2 Gen2 most likely.

See attached jpg showing what it looks like.   


Re: USB and cold weather

Micheal Fields Jr
 

I am using a Pyramid 12 amp linear regulated power supply that is AC to DC supplying a nice heavy duty power cable using anderson power poles from that unit to a rig-runner distrubution box on top of the mount.  Power of course goes through the mount.  The USB hub is the https://www.startech.com/en-us/cards-adapters/st4300usbm   and is powered from that rig-runner with 12v.  Nothing on my system draws more than an amp or two so I know there is plenty of amps.  Also I measured the voltage with everything turned on to make sure it didn't drop under 12v and it was all stable at 13+


Re: USB and cold weather

Worsel
 

Are you using AC power with an AC-DC adapter or are you using DC power for the hub, etc?  If the former, no big deal.  If the latter, what battery?

Bryan


Re: USB and cold weather

Don Anderson
 

Micheal
Problem could be related to the cables or the hub. Most consumer/commercial electronics is rated to around 32F(0Celcius). That is not to say that the device will work reliably down to that temp. Failure at 47F is a bit unusual though and suggests something is defective. USB3 is a lot more touchy than USB2. You could have a bad USB3 cable in the mount as well as a failing USB hub. If you are looking for a new robust hub that is good for low (-40F) temp, I would look at the products from Pegasus Astro. I bought one of their USB control hubs to replace my consumer hub that quit working at about 35F. Works great.
Hope this helps

Don Anderson


On Saturday, January 9, 2021, 03:22:22 a.m. MST, Micheal Fields Jr via groups.io <mpfjr@...> wrote:


I seem to have some errors when I have my stuff out in the cold.  This is california cold at 47F.  Every frame I downloaded had this weird mosaic tile puzzle look to it. Qhy says it is USB CrC errors.

Swapped cables and didn't have luck until I ran a 6 foot cable from my PC to the hub directly bypassing the Mach2 through the mount usb 3 cable.  But it wasn't 100% fixed.  Just a lot better.  Then I brought the whole thing in the house to set up and experiment and shoot video and it all started working again.  The only difference is that inside it is 70F.  I've heard of USB hubs and other electronics get angry when it is cold so I figure that must be it.  

I use the StarTech Industrial metal 12v powered 4 port hub.  I've used this hub for years without issue.  

If I bypass the mount and go direct, I don't have problems  But once I brought all this inside where it is warm, I can go through the mount with very little problems.  Maybe 2 bad frames out of 200.  This hub I have was over 100$ when I originally bought it.  Now it can be had for a steal at $80 on Amazon.  The cables were just whatever Amazon had that had good reviews.

All my cables are minimal length.    Please tell me what cables  you like and what hubs you like?

People from AP, any way for the end user to run my own cable through just in case it turns out to be a finicky cable?  I'd go ahead and upgrade to 3.1 or 3.2 Gen2 most likely.

See attached jpg showing what it looks like.   


Re: USB and cold weather

Xentex
 

I have a similar issue with the through mount connection on the Mach 2 when I use USB3.  Works fine until we get below a certain temp, then it breaks up.

Some cables work better than others, but I haven't been able to make it completely go away except by changing it to USB 2.  I bought myself a new cold weather USB 3 hub thinking maybe that would help, but it didn't.

What works for me right now is PC->Mach2 mount->Camera->hub->other stuff.  So only the camera is running USB3.  If I rearrange it to PC->Mach2->Hub->Camera then it fails when temp goes below about 5F.


Re: USB and cold weather

W Hilmo
 

It could potentially be a cable or connector issue.  As it gets colder, cables get stiffer which puts more stress on the connectors when things move.

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Edward Beshore via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2021 5:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB and cold weather

 

Hi Micheal

I routinely use my USB equipment down to freezing and below in CO.

I would suspect moisture before I would suspect cold (knowing that CA also has a lot of that if you are anywhere close to ocean..)

Ed Beshore


Re: USB and cold weather

Edward Beshore
 

Hi Micheal

I routinely use my USB equipment down to freezing and below in CO.

I would suspect moisture before I would suspect cold (knowing that CA also has a lot of that if you are anywhere close to ocean..)

Ed Beshore


USB and cold weather

Micheal Fields Jr
 

I seem to have some errors when I have my stuff out in the cold.  This is california cold at 47F.  Every frame I downloaded had this weird mosaic tile puzzle look to it. Qhy says it is USB CrC errors.

Swapped cables and didn't have luck until I ran a 6 foot cable from my PC to the hub directly bypassing the Mach2 through the mount usb 3 cable.  But it wasn't 100% fixed.  Just a lot better.  Then I brought the whole thing in the house to set up and experiment and shoot video and it all started working again.  The only difference is that inside it is 70F.  I've heard of USB hubs and other electronics get angry when it is cold so I figure that must be it.  

I use the StarTech Industrial metal 12v powered 4 port hub.  I've used this hub for years without issue.  

If I bypass the mount and go direct, I don't have problems  But once I brought all this inside where it is warm, I can go through the mount with very little problems.  Maybe 2 bad frames out of 200.  This hub I have was over 100$ when I originally bought it.  Now it can be had for a steal at $80 on Amazon.  The cables were just whatever Amazon had that had good reviews.

All my cables are minimal length.    Please tell me what cables  you like and what hubs you like?

People from AP, any way for the end user to run my own cable through just in case it turns out to be a finicky cable?  I'd go ahead and upgrade to 3.1 or 3.2 Gen2 most likely.

See attached jpg showing what it looks like.   


APCC 1.9?

deonb
 

How far away is APPC 1.9 from being released? (With ASTAP Plate Solving support)?

No specifics needed, just like in: Weeks, months, quarters or years?

I'd like to run an APPM at some point, and just want to know if it's worth figuring out SGP, or if it will be obsolete the day after I do...


Re: APCC Pro version update

Greg McCall
 

Do you have a domain name and port I can try to access?
(I'm guessing I should be able to telnet to it from either computer)


Re: APCC Pro version update

Ray Gralak
 

I think we need to concentrate on Windows settings because this is almost certainly not an APCC issue since APCC is able to reach the server via your laptop.

Two more things to look into:

1. Do you have the Wifi LAN configured as private (as opposed to public)? If you choose "public" there will be extra network filtering. Here's how to change this:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/make-a-wi-fi-network-public-or-private-in-windows-10-0460117d-8d3e-a7ac-f003-7a0da607448d

2. I wonder if DNS translation is failing. Maybe you can check the IPV4 IP settings and specifically configure one or both DNS servers with your internet provider's DNS server(s).

Also, sometimes it helps to run troubleshooting on the LAN. This probably won't fix the issue, but it couldn't hurt if the other two options above don't help. Whatever this issue is, it is probably something pretty random.

Next step might be to load up an Ethernet network protocol analyzer, like WireShark.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Greg McCall
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 2:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Pro version update

Hi Ray,
I'm running the latest windows 10 and any optional device drivers Microsoft sometimes lists in the update screen.
--- from my machine ---

Edition Windows 10 Pro
Version 20H2
Installed on ‎17/‎07/‎2020
OS build 19042.685
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.551.0
----------
I'm also running the latest NUC drivers (as checked from the Intel driver support assistant site)
I tried downloading the latest .Net 4.8 framework <https://dotnet.microsoft.com/download/dotnet-
framework/net48> (https://dotnet.microsoft.com/download/dotnet-framework/net48) but it would not install
claiming I already had the latest.

re ipconfig, windows reports 'Media disconnected' from each of the adapters except for the wifi adapter
I have only ever configured IPV4
I have no IPV6 configured so I suspect it's only listing the address

I then plugged in an ethernet cable directly from the router.
I changed the properties of both wifi and ethernet adapters by removing IPV6
I rebooted with ethernet plugged in so the machine would prefer that over wifi

ipconfig listed no IPV6 but APCC still does not get the latest version


---------- ipconfig results below ---------
Windows IP Configuration


Ethernet adapter Ethernet:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.15
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

Wireless LAN adapter Local Area Connection* 1:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

Wireless LAN adapter WiFi:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: APCC Pro version update

Greg McCall
 

Hi Ray,
I'm running the latest windows 10 and any optional device drivers Microsoft sometimes lists in the update screen.
--- from my machine  ---
Edition Windows 10 Pro
Version 20H2
Installed on ‎17/‎07/‎2020
OS build 19042.685
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.551.0
----------
I'm also running the latest NUC drivers (as checked from the Intel driver support assistant site)
I tried downloading the latest .Net 4.8 framework (https://dotnet.microsoft.com/download/dotnet-framework/net48) but it would not install claiming I already had the latest.

re ipconfig, windows reports 'Media disconnected' from each of the adapters except for the wifi adapter
I have only ever configured IPV4 
I have no IPV6 configured so I suspect it's only listing the address

I then plugged in an ethernet cable directly from the router.
I changed the properties of both wifi and ethernet adapters by removing IPV6
I rebooted with ethernet plugged in so the machine would prefer that over wifi

ipconfig listed no IPV6 but APCC still does not get the latest version

---------- ipconfig results below ---------
Windows IP Configuration
 
 
Ethernet adapter Ethernet:
 
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
   IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.15
   Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
   Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
 
Wireless LAN adapter Local Area Connection* 1:
 
   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
 
Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:
 
   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
 
Wireless LAN adapter WiFi:
 
   Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
   Connection-specific DNS Suffix  . :
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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