Date   

Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

deonb
 

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 08:20 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
Well, posting to CN won't fix things. If the poster contacts us, we can patch into his controller, see what version of software he has and the settings, and actually watch it do the tracking. I don't understand why people post problems on CN without first contacting the manufacturer.
I'm the dope who originally posted this on CN :). I wasn't specifically posting it as a problem. It was more like a "hey cool, this mount can track for 10 minutes at 2800mm without guiding!", and "here's what I did" post. I loaded more counterweights than the specs of the mount originally so I didn't think there was anything to fix.

I do now... 

It seems that there is a some positions that if I slew my mount there, it goes into an infinite "oscillation" mode. I can physically see the scope move back-and-forth a few millimeters about once a second, and it will keep doing that even if I stop tracking completely. It stops though if I park the mount in that position.

I'm running directly through the ASCOM driver v5.30.10 connecting via USB. (I'm still learning APCC). 

The mount firmware is VCP5-P02-08. The encoder firmware is A02-08.


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

deonb
 

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 08:20 AM, Roland Christen wrote:
Well, posting to CN won't fix things. If the poster contacts us, we can patch into his controller, see what version of software he has and the settings, and actually watch it do the tracking. I don't understand why people post problems on CN without first contacting the manufacturer.
I'm the dope who originally posted this on CN :). I wasn't specifically posting it as a problem. It was more like a "hey cool, this mount can track for 10 minutes at 2800mm without guiding!", and "here's what I did" post. I loaded more counterweights than the specs of the mount originally so I didn't think there was anything to fix.

I do now... 

It seems that there is a some positions that if I slew my mount there, it goes into an infinite "oscillation" mode. I can physically see the scope move back-and-forth a few millimeters about once a second, and it will keep doing that even if I stop tracking completely. It stops though if I park the mount in that position.

I'm running directly through the ASCOM driver v5.30.10 connecting via USB. (I'm still learning APCC). 

The mount firmware is VCP5-P02-08. The encoder firmware is A02-08.


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Roland Christen
 

Strickly off-axis guiding if guiding at all. It's on the bottom camera.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Dodd <mike@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

> It's a 155EDF on top of a 160EDF, each has CCD cameras and Quad TCC hand grenades.

Where's the guide scope/camera on top of the 155EDF. Oh, I forgot! This
rig probably does unguided imaging! :-)

--- Mike






--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

First I need to get my hands on an AP155 and AP160 and a Mach2 before I can try this ... just pulling your leg :)

On Thursday, December 24, 2020, 6:10 PM, Mike Dodd <mike@...> wrote:

> It's a 155EDF on top of a 160EDF, each has CCD cameras and Quad TCC hand grenades.

Where's the guide scope/camera on top of the 155EDF. Oh, I forgot! This
rig probably does unguided imaging! :-)

--- Mike






Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Mike Dodd
 

It's a 155EDF on top of a 160EDF, each has CCD cameras and Quad TCC hand grenades.
Where's the guide scope/camera on top of the 155EDF. Oh, I forgot! This rig probably does unguided imaging! :-)

--- Mike


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Bill Long
 

Nice setup! I will be sure not to try this. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 4:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights
 
Well, I couldn't resist. Here's a pix of the setup with the caveat of WHAT NOT TO DO!

It's a 155EDF on top of a 160EDF, each has CCD cameras and Quad TCC hand grenades. The two scopes weigh ... I don't really know. The goodie bag on the end of the counterweight shaft holds another 10lb weight because I ran out of shaft length. Total cwt = 3x 14lb plus 5x 10lb plus 1x 5lb. (yes it tracks and slews just fine, but a bit boingy if you bang on it).
I set this up to test the QuadTCC with the 155EDF scope for a customer request, but didn't want to disturb my 160 setup which I am using for a winter imaging project.

Do Not try this at home upon pain of death from Marj!!! (my death mostly) Disappointed

Rolando






-----Original Message-----
From: chris1011@...
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Marj has forbidden me from taking a pix of this setup! Upon pain of death and worse. Flushed

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:32 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Right now I have my Mach2 loaded with two 6" refractors, one on top the other, and all the heavy camera gear and counterweights galore, which is in the no-no zone. Just to make sure that these kinds of loads work in a stable and accurate manner (and because I like to do crazy stuff)  Stuck out tongue closed eyes

We want a picture of that! :D

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Roland Christen
 

Well, I couldn't resist. Here's a pix of the setup with the caveat of WHAT NOT TO DO!

It's a 155EDF on top of a 160EDF, each has CCD cameras and Quad TCC hand grenades. The two scopes weigh ... I don't really know. The goodie bag on the end of the counterweight shaft holds another 10lb weight because I ran out of shaft length. Total cwt = 3x 14lb plus 5x 10lb plus 1x 5lb. (yes it tracks and slews just fine, but a bit boingy if you bang on it).
I set this up to test the QuadTCC with the 155EDF scope for a customer request, but didn't want to disturb my 160 setup which I am using for a winter imaging project.

Do Not try this at home upon pain of death from Marj!!! (my death mostly) Disappointed

Rolando






-----Original Message-----
From: chris1011@...
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Marj has forbidden me from taking a pix of this setup! Upon pain of death and worse. Flushed

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:32 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Right now I have my Mach2 loaded with two 6" refractors, one on top the other, and all the heavy camera gear and counterweights galore, which is in the no-no zone. Just to make sure that these kinds of loads work in a stable and accurate manner (and because I like to do crazy stuff)  Stuck out tongue closed eyes

We want a picture of that! :D

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

John
 

Aloha Ray,

  2 days worth came out to be about 11mbs.  I just tried sending the zip file via email, thanks!

      John


Re: Microsoft and the Death Star

Joe Zeglinski
 

Bill – to you and your  Colleagues at Microsoft...
 
    BRAVO – very well done indeed !!!!!!
 
Joe Z.
 

From: Bill Long
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:56 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Microsoft and the Death Star
 
Thought I would share this about a week after the article was published.
 
 
There is a lot of talk on CN and here, and other places about how people dislike Microsoft or have disdain for Windows, and that is what it is. The old adage is that they are the Evil Empire.
 
This article puts a good spin on that moniker. They turned their meme Death Star on the largest security breach in history and obliterated their operation.
 
I did not see a single post here or on CN that gave the company props for that.  I know this isn't exactly AP-GTO related, but their software (mostly Windows) is berated here from time to time, so I thought it would be fair to share a good light, on what I think is a great company these days.
 
I hope you all are well this holiday season, and I hope the skies bring you some good fortune in the days to come.
 
Clear Skies!
 
Bill Long
 


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Worsel
 

You should ask Marj for the refractor...you might get a deal!

Bryan


Re: Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

Ray Gralak
 

Hi John,

I just sent the log files to your group3 email address.
I got your zip file of the logs, but the zip only contained ASCOM logs. I need to see the APCC logs as well. I provided a screenshot of how to get them all via the APCC Log zipper.

Note that if the zip file is too large (>10 Mbytes) I may not be able to receive it as an attachment. In that case, please provide a link.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 12:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

Aloha Ray,

I just sent the log files to your group3 email address.

I also tried a different ethernet cable, but no luck. And I swapped the RA and DEC cables (that go from the gtocp5 to
the back of the mount). After doing that,
I was checking to see if the slew issue in DEC would migrate over to the RA axis. But, nothing changed. I guess the
cables are ok. Thanks!!

John


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Roland Christen
 

Smile



-----Original Message-----
From: Xentex <michael@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 01:32 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Right now I have my Mach2 loaded with two 6" refractors, one on top the other, and all the heavy camera gear and counterweights galore, which is in the no-no zone.
You shouldn't have to live like that.  Let me take one of those 6" refractors off your hands and I promise to give it a Mach2 of it's own.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

John
 


  Well, I'll settle for a nice AP 5" refractor!!  :)  I don't see it under the tree, maybe next year!

  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

    John


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Xentex
 

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 01:32 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Right now I have my Mach2 loaded with two 6" refractors, one on top the other, and all the heavy camera gear and counterweights galore, which is in the no-no zone.
You shouldn't have to live like that.  Let me take one of those 6" refractors off your hands and I promise to give it a Mach2 of it's own.


Re: Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

John
 

Aloha Ray,

  I just sent the log files to your group3 email address.

  I also tried a different ethernet cable, but no luck.  And I swapped the RA and DEC cables (that go from the gtocp5 to the back of the mount).  After doing that,
I was checking to see if the slew issue in DEC would migrate over to the RA axis.  But, nothing changed.  I guess the cables are ok.  Thanks!!

    John


Re: Triple Piggy Back Works!

Jeff B
 

A +1 what Roland said about balance in all directions/axes.  In the 11" F7.2 Newtonian on the 1200, I have 85 pounds worth of weights.  I very carefully balanced the tube in RA but also paid particular attention to the DEC.  You can't see it because it's on the other side, out of view, but I added an aft ring with a weight counterpoise to the focuser/bino-viewer/finder assembly to counteract their combined off axis torque.   Works well.  I also decrease the slew speeds to 600x (if I could, I'd probably go down to 500X or maybe even 400x).

Jeff

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:44 PM Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
To make something like this work, be sure to balance both axes very accurately. Once in balance, the torque required by the drive motors is no higher than a completely un-loaded mount. What happens when you have some imbalance, especially in the Dec axis, is that the pressure on the worm teeth increases dramatically. This causes high friction that impedes precise motion of the Dec axis at sub-arc sec levels. You may get increased delay when the axis is commanded to reverse during guiding and possible overshoot if the friction is really high.

With good balance the encoders will command the Dec axis to move almost instantly for same or reversing directions. With out of balance, the encoders will try to compensate but if the friction is too high you will get jerky motions at sub-arc sec levels.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bresler via groups.io <PABresler=aol.com@groups.io>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 11:01 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Triple Piggy Back Works!

[Edited Message Follows]
In spite of the inertia the guiding with the OAG appeared to be good. The mount is balanced as is. I cannot add an extension bar because the shed doors would not close. There are some processing issues with that image that I still am working on. I have been working on organizing the wires and lengthening them. Cable snags are infrequent now. I probably will remove the small scope when not in use. It still is easier than switching them around. The mount is a 1200.

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Roland Christen
 

Marj has forbidden me from taking a pix of this setup! Upon pain of death and worse. Flushed

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Marcelo Figueroa via groups.io <marfig1970@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 1:30 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:32 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Right now I have my Mach2 loaded with two 6" refractors, one on top the other, and all the heavy camera gear and counterweights galore, which is in the no-no zone. Just to make sure that these kinds of loads work in a stable and accurate manner (and because I like to do crazy stuff)  Stuck out tongue closed eyes

We want a picture of that! :D

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Interesting Mach2 Behavior on Cloudy Nights

Marcelo Figueroa
 

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:32 PM, Roland Christen wrote:
Right now I have my Mach2 loaded with two 6" refractors, one on top the other, and all the heavy camera gear and counterweights galore, which is in the no-no zone. Just to make sure that these kinds of loads work in a stable and accurate manner (and because I like to do crazy stuff)  Stuck out tongue closed eyes

We want a picture of that! :D


Re: Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

John
 

Aloha Roland and Ray,

  Haven't noticed anything unusual when using just the keypad.  It works fine.  No problem with initial gotos and no problems parking the mount.

  Yes I did init the mount first this morning via apcc only (haven't used the keypad this morning)

  The mount is acting lost when initialized via apcc.  Not sure if I was supposed to do this, but I just tried this.   I parked the mount at Park 3, pressed the 'find home' button and
parked the mount again.  Then pressed the 'load mount's ra/dec' button and then pressed the 'sync' button.  After doing all that, I disconnected from the mount, and shutdown apcc,
Then started everything back up, but unfortunately nothing changed.  The mount is still lost.

  Forgot to mention earlier.  After unparking from Park 3 and manually slewing the scope in DEC about 10 degrees (so that the scope is pointed to the East), the yellow counter weight up
notification illuminates in the driver window.  But, the 3d window shows the correct mount scope orientation.  

  Ray, I'll look for the log files and get those out to you (probably on google drive),  I just double checked the lat/long and time zone again in the driver and they're ok.  I also just saw the zipper
button in there.  Thanks for everything!!  And sorry for all the trouble and thanks for the quick reply (on Christmas Eve)...  :)

      John



Re: Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

Roland Christen
 

I would have to let Ray comment on this, as I have never encountered this kind of event. Are you able to park the mount in any of the park positions with the keypad, (not APCC)?

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: John <obee11@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 12:27 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Initial GoTo In APCC Pro Cause Nose or Tail Dive

Aloha Roland and All,

  ok, thanks!  I use to call gmt or utc time zulu (or just Z for short)  as in 22:00Z

  Well, I just noticed something new this morning (regarding the initial goto not working in apcc [no keyapd connected]).

  After connecting to the mount via apcc only (no keypad connected) and unparking, I tried some 'manual' slews, using the N S E W buttons in apcc.  Using the mouse, if I slew the mount
about 20 degrees in DEC (either N or S) and then stop slewing, the current DEC readout (both in apcc and in the driver window) will indicate 00 00 00.  However, while actually pressing
the left mouse button to slew a little more, the correct/current dec value will appear (while slewing and while holding down the left mouse button).  After stopping the slew (by releasing the
left mouse button), the current dec readout will revert back to indicate 00 00 00 again.  This is only occurring with the DEC axis, the RA axis seems to be ok (ie not lost)

  Parking the mount, pressing 'find home' fixes everything again.  I can manually slew the dec about 15 or 20 degrees (either N or S), release the mouse button, and the correct coordinates
are dispalyed in both apcc and in the dirver window.

  For some unknown reason, when connecting via laptop and apcc, the mount isn't keeping it's 'home position.'  It starts up lost (in the dec axis).  Wasn't sure if this was normal.

  It kind of seems like the mount is not initializing correctly with apcc  or if it's not retaining the correct home position (after disconnecting from the mount).  I might unistall both the driver
and apcc and then reinstall both and see if that helps.

      John

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

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