Date   

Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Dale Ghent
 

On Dec 13, 2020, at 22:54, steve.winston@gmail.com wrote:

Well I'll be the contrarian :)
Please don't be. I understand quite well where Ray is coming from on this. I often have to play support agent for other apps and hardware, both free and commercial, because the first place the user sees an error or issue that stems from such underlying systems is presented in the app I work on. So the first place they end up seeking help is our forum and, for some reason, the user will often think that we can somehow render better support than the vendor they purchased the gear from or the producers of the other application. It's a real distraction. PHD2 has its own support venue for a purpose and their developers pay close attention to it, thus PHD2 mysteries can best be resolved, or at least triaged, there.


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

 

fwiw I'm happy to offer my input on any logs or questions regarding PHD. 

I have been a regular contributor on the PHD forums for the past few years, and keep in contact with the developers. I am fairly confident in my PHD knowledge, and analyze about 5-10 logs per day across many different mounts. 

and I'm an AP owner to boot :) Not yet as familiar with my AP yet as I am with PHD. 

Brian


On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 7:54 PM <steve.winston@...> wrote:
Well I'll be the contrarian :)

No one knows these mounts better than Roland.  Empowering him with tools like PHD2 log viewer so he can see the issues people are reporting seems like it can only help the broader community and make his job easier.  Being dependent on people posting the "right" screen grab and only being able to see a tiny subset of the information cannot be very productive.

Of course, Roland will decide whether and how much time he can spend analyzing any such requests for help.    And yes, any apparent issues involving PHD2 should absolutely be reported on the PHD2 forum, but often after initial analysis over there the recommendation can be to go back to the mount manufacturer and seek support there...



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

steve.winston@...
 

Well I'll be the contrarian :)

No one knows these mounts better than Roland.  Empowering him with tools like PHD2 log viewer so he can see the issues people are reporting seems like it can only help the broader community and make his job easier.  Being dependent on people posting the "right" screen grab and only being able to see a tiny subset of the information cannot be very productive.

Of course, Roland will decide whether and how much time he can spend analyzing any such requests for help.    And yes, any apparent issues involving PHD2 should absolutely be reported on the PHD2 forum, but often after initial analysis over there the recommendation can be to go back to the mount manufacturer and seek support there...


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Eric Dreher
 

I agree.  The iterations of at least three image acquisition programs, and multiple guiding programs available among the list, make it a daunting task to keep up with all of them.

SGP can use Metaguide and PHD2, NINA can use at least PHD2 and maybe others, and Voyager can utilize PHD2 and MaximDL.

Roland's responsibility is to his mounts and the native drivers and software offered by his company.  I cannot imagine asking him to do more than he is currently offering.


Re: 130 EDF Starfire Field Flatteners

Max Mirot
 

Please let me know if these are going to be produced.

I made the mistake of selling my old flattner.
I was thinking the Quad TCC was going to work.
Then I found out it is not compatible with the older F6.
Now my scope is doing visual only duty since I have to find another one.

Max


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Steve,

I understand that Roland asked for more information. He wants to help! :-)

My point was this - the subtleties and growing complexity of PHD2 has made the analysis of PHD2 log files better suited to the folks on the PHD2 forum. 99.9% of the time the autoguiding "issue" is simply a settings or calibration issue, so I think the people on the PHD2 forum should have a first crack at looking at the issue. :-)

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of steve.winston@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 2:30 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Hey Ray,

Roland asked for screenshots, which imho, is an inefficient way to share data. As a lot of people post their actual
PHD2 logs whenever they are having problems, having access to the PHD2 log viewer and so not having to ask for
screenshots seems like a step up, no? Roland will of course decide for himself how much time he wants to spend
debugging issues like this. And yes, fully agree that cross posting on the PHD2 forum and seeking help there would
be a good idea.

Steve




Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

steve.winston@...
 

Hey Ray,

Roland asked for screenshots, which imho, is an inefficient way to share data.  As a lot of people post their actual PHD2 logs whenever they are having problems, having access to the PHD2 log viewer and so not having to ask for screenshots seems like a step up, no?  Roland will of course decide for himself how much time he wants to spend debugging issues like this.  And yes, fully agree that cross posting on the PHD2 forum and seeking help there would be a good idea.

Steve


 


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Steve,

Roland - might be time to download the PHD2 log viewer - simple to use and will let you see all of the guiding data:
https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-log-viewer/
IMO, PHD2 has become too complicated for most people, which goes against its original roots. Thus, I think people should first seek support for PHD2 on its forum. This will help Roland and other key A-P personnel stay focused on producing new and advancing existing products instead of supporting settings for PHD2.

If the PHD2 forum believes there is a problem that would be better solved on this forum, then the problem should be brought up here.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of steve.winston@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 12:22 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Here's the same screen grab as an attachment (rather than an image)

Roland - might be time to download the PHD2 log viewer - simple to use and will let you see all of the guiding data:
https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-log-viewer/


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

steve.winston@...
 

Here's the same screen grab as an attachment (rather than an image)

Roland - might be time to download the PHD2 log viewer - simple to use and will let you see all of the guiding data: https://openphdguiding.org/phd2-log-viewer/


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Roland Christen
 

To everyone out there:

Here's the kind of screenshots I need to be able to analyze a mount's actions/health and to begin to separate out the guide software issues from the mount issues. It's easy enough to take and store screenshots by doing Shift-Print Screen, opening them up in Paint or other programs, storing them for future reference. That way you can go back to see what settings you had, what the seeing was like, etc. You need to do this for both Guided and Unguided for at least 1 worm cycle of 6.4 minutes (2 or 3 would be better). The more info data the better. Saying that the mount doesn't track is essentially zero information.

Screen shot 1:


Screenshot 2:



Screenshot 3:


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Worsel
 

Ron

If you attach the original screenshot, rather than insert, it will be more readable.  Yahoo reduces the resolution of inserted images.

Bryan


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Robert Sinitiere <bobstar9@...>
 

Well, Roland.  It doesn’t look that bad to me.  It’s better than my EKG!  Bob☃️🎄🔭


On Dec 13, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


Can't read any of the text or numbers - resolution has been cut way down.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: steve.winston@...
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Here's a section of the graph showing some of the large excursions in RA and DEC.

<Ron_guide_errors.jpg>

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics
<Ron_guide_errors.jpg>


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Roland Christen
 

Can't read any of the text or numbers - resolution has been cut way down.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: steve.winston@...
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 10:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Here's a section of the graph showing some of the large excursions in RA and DEC.


--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

steve.winston@...
 

Here's a section of the graph showing some of the large excursions in RA and DEC.


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Pete Mumbower
 

Ron are you using a guidescope? I though I read that somewhere, especially since you are using a RASA. Could be good old fashioned differential flexure.

Pete


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Roland Christen
 

I'm not well versed in PHD2, so I can't really analyze and recommend different setting. I can, however, see if the mount itself has a mechanical issue by looking at the guider graph showing both axes response to the guide pulses and directions.

So, if the issue is a bad setting in the guider program, i don't have the expertise. If the issue is that one of the axes is not responding, then I know how to fix it. The fact that there is periodic error on the order of 5 to 7 arc seconds is a red herring. It has absolutely no effect on guide accuracy and it isn't worth pursuing if the problem is in the Dec axis.

I can help, but only if people are willing to provide information such as guide graph screen shots showing the problem.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Manusfisch via groups.io <tjfischer653@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 5:28 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

i sure dont see where any "yelling' was done. that analysis is a bit harsh.  I too was confused by your typo DEC/PEC and that set the stage for some confusion in an already tricky and complex problem.  Brian's analysis is however quite complete and educational for all to see.  Thanks Brian.  This is a great problem solving thread. 

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

Pete Lardizabal
 

Mega size now visible!!!

💪🏻

Pete

On Dec 12, 2020, at 6:04 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


ARGGG! So everyone should NOW be able to get the full res

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

I just upgraded to the Ultimate subscription plan, so everyone should not be able to get the full res version.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: burdbeen <tanveerg@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

I see just the technical card. I'm on a 3000x2000 monitor so it looks detailed. Saving it saves a half resolution copy. Mysterious. 

Tanveer

PS. I don't have an Astrobin account. 

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:29 AM James Stone <jrs7r@...> wrote:
I’m having no problem accessing the 3326x2504, 5MB image on multiple platforms. One platform is a Macbook Pro with Blackmagic eGPU connected to an Apple XDR 6k monitor and another is an iPhone XS. Both bring up the full resolution image when accessing this link: https://www.astrobin.com/full/bovv9h/0/?real=&mod=
 
One possible explanation for the differential experience may be found here: https://welcome.astrobin.com/blog/changes-to-subscriptions-2020
 
On that page, is states: “Visitors without an account, or members with a Free account cannot view the full-resolution images unless the author of the image is on the Ultimate subscription. However, they can access the large version of the image that is 1824 pixels wide”. So, if this image was uploaded to an account with a subscription tier somewhere below “Ultimate” then it may explain it, particularly if those unable to access the full resolution image are on a “Free” or unregistered account.
 
 
From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 10:52 AM
To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?
 
I did upload the full 3326x2504 size and it should show up. It's a mystery why it doesn't show.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2020 8:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?
The high resolution link is rather stunning on my monitor and does enlarge as others have described.
However, the high resolution image is only 1824 x 1373 pixels which is a little more than half the resolution of your image as described on the technical card (3326x2504). That resolution would probably be even more impressive.

Andrew


Re: Guiding on my plate again - NEED TO IMPROVE

Manusfisch
 

i sure dont see where any "yelling' was done. that analysis is a bit harsh.  I too was confused by your typo DEC/PEC and that set the stage for some confusion in an already tricky and complex problem.  Brian's analysis is however quite complete and educational for all to see.  Thanks Brian.  This is a great problem solving thread. 


Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

Roland Christen
 

ARGGG! So everyone should NOW be able to get the full res

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>; main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

I just upgraded to the Ultimate subscription plan, so everyone should not be able to get the full res version.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: burdbeen <tanveerg@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

I see just the technical card. I'm on a 3000x2000 monitor so it looks detailed. Saving it saves a half resolution copy. Mysterious. 

Tanveer

PS. I don't have an Astrobin account. 

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:29 AM James Stone <jrs7r@...> wrote:
I’m having no problem accessing the 3326x2504, 5MB image on multiple platforms. One platform is a Macbook Pro with Blackmagic eGPU connected to an Apple XDR 6k monitor and another is an iPhone XS. Both bring up the full resolution image when accessing this link: https://www.astrobin.com/full/bovv9h/0/?real=&mod=
 
One possible explanation for the differential experience may be found here: https://welcome.astrobin.com/blog/changes-to-subscriptions-2020
 
On that page, is states: “Visitors without an account, or members with a Free account cannot view the full-resolution images unless the author of the image is on the Ultimate subscription. However, they can access the large version of the image that is 1824 pixels wide”. So, if this image was uploaded to an account with a subscription tier somewhere below “Ultimate” then it may explain it, particularly if those unable to access the full resolution image are on a “Free” or unregistered account.
 
 
From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 10:52 AM
To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?
 
I did upload the full 3326x2504 size and it should show up. It's a mystery why it doesn't show.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2020 8:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?
The high resolution link is rather stunning on my monitor and does enlarge as others have described.
However, the high resolution image is only 1824 x 1373 pixels which is a little more than half the resolution of your image as described on the technical card (3326x2504). That resolution would probably be even more impressive.

Andrew

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

Roland Christen
 

I just upgraded to the Ultimate subscription plan, so everyone should not be able to get the full res version.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: burdbeen <tanveerg@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2020 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?

I see just the technical card. I'm on a 3000x2000 monitor so it looks detailed. Saving it saves a half resolution copy. Mysterious. 

Tanveer

PS. I don't have an Astrobin account. 

On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:29 AM James Stone <jrs7r@...> wrote:
I’m having no problem accessing the 3326x2504, 5MB image on multiple platforms. One platform is a Macbook Pro with Blackmagic eGPU connected to an Apple XDR 6k monitor and another is an iPhone XS. Both bring up the full resolution image when accessing this link: https://www.astrobin.com/full/bovv9h/0/?real=&mod=
 
One possible explanation for the differential experience may be found here: https://welcome.astrobin.com/blog/changes-to-subscriptions-2020
 
On that page, is states: “Visitors without an account, or members with a Free account cannot view the full-resolution images unless the author of the image is on the Ultimate subscription. However, they can access the large version of the image that is 1824 pixels wide”. So, if this image was uploaded to an account with a subscription tier somewhere below “Ultimate” then it may explain it, particularly if those unable to access the full resolution image are on a “Free” or unregistered account.
 
 
From: <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of "Roland Christen via groups.io" <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 2020 at 10:52 AM
To: "main@ap-ug.groups.io" <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?
 
I did upload the full 3326x2504 size and it should show up. It's a mystery why it doesn't show.
 
Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Arai <andrewarai@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Sent: Fri, Dec 11, 2020 8:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Full size image on Astrobin missing?
The high resolution link is rather stunning on my monitor and does enlarge as others have described.
However, the high resolution image is only 1824 x 1373 pixels which is a little more than half the resolution of your image as described on the technical card (3326x2504). That resolution would probably be even more impressive.

Andrew

--
Roland Christen
Astro-Physics

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