Date   

Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Roland Christen
 

The Mach1 is an extremely simple mount. The RA axis has two bearings, one at the upper end of the RA body and one near the middle of the body. There is a sliding window on top of the RA body that can be slid up and out of the way (this is the window where people run their cables thru the mount).

Sliding this window out of the way allows you to actually look inside the RA body, which is hollow, and you will see the shaft bearing retaining nut that preloads the bearings. It's a black anodized ring with two holes on the ends that allow a spanner wrench for tightening. Further up you can see the shaft which is clear anodized (silver). The bearing itself is underneath the black ring.

If it's loose, then the axis shaft can move a bit inside the bearing. You can look right in that opening and see the end of the RA shaft bearing retaining ring and check to see if it moves as you push on the counterweight shaft. You can even put your finger on the retaining nut and feel if there is any movement if you can't see it by eye.

There is nothing whatsoever left that can allow the RA axis to move when you push back and forth on the counterweight shaft.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.



-----Original Message-----
From: John Davis <johncdavis200@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2020 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Hi Roland,
  I went back and meticulously re-read your first post, and attempted to the best of my abilities to re-do everything that you suggested- just as you suggested, including the steps to familiarize myself with the behavior of the meshing mechanism.  Everything behaved just as you described.

  I re-performed the meshing procedure following your instructions and those in the documentation for the mount.  That procedure still did not ellimnate the play in the RA axis, as it DID when I performed the same procedure on the Dec axis.  Because that worked, I conclude that I followed the procedure correctly.

  I then added your last step to move the lever to the 90 degree position from fully locked, and gently with one finger pushed back and forth on the end of the counterweight shaft - and it still moved as it does when the lever is pointing to the fully engaged and locked position.

  After all this I re-checked the worm nut - with the cap removed, I cannot feel any movement of the worm shaft when moving the counterweight shaft with my finger.

John


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

John Davis
 

Hi Roland,
  I went back and meticulously re-read your first post, and attempted to the best of my abilities to re-do everything that you suggested- just as you suggested, including the steps to familiarize myself with the behavior of the meshing mechanism.  Everything behaved just as you described.

  I re-performed the meshing procedure following your instructions and those in the documentation for the mount.  That procedure still did not ellimnate the play in the RA axis, as it DID when I performed the same procedure on the Dec axis.  Because that worked, I conclude that I followed the procedure correctly.

  I then added your last step to move the lever to the 90 degree position from fully locked, and gently with one finger pushed back and forth on the end of the counterweight shaft - and it still moved as it does when the lever is pointing to the fully engaged and locked position.

  After all this I re-checked the worm nut - with the cap removed, I cannot feel any movement of the worm shaft when moving the counterweight shaft with my finger.

John


Re: clutch tightening

Roland Christen
 

Yes, you can tighten the Mach1 with an Allen key. You can lock it up or tighten to any setting in between.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Stephens <mikestephens-milkeycorp@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2020 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] clutch tightening

In ref to below - Just to confirm is Mach 1 considered a " New Mount " and as such it is acceptable to tighten clutch knobs with an Allen Wrench? tnx, Mike


Ref:

    When talking about the “allowable” safe force  to lock clutch knobs , you should always STRESS the fact that you are talking about the NEW mounts AP-(1100, 1600, 32000) , and definitely not the old model AP-(900 & 1200).
 
    Tightening the latter’s clutches with an Allen Key will definitely squish – you often say “mushroom” - the Delrin plugs into the clutch knob threaded hole wall, and make it impossible to ever extract them for replacement – even using the special AP extraction screwdriver, which just chips them like sugar cubes.
 
    I speak from very bitter experience. Took an enormous  effort,  special tools, unique procedures, and lots of AP tech advice tips,  to finally get them out and replaced. Now I tighten “pinky-finger tight”, and leave solving other problems to perfect counterweighting.
 
Joe


Re: clutch tightening

Mike Stephens
 

In ref to below - Just to confirm is Mach 1 considered a " New Mount " and as such it is acceptable to tighten clutch knobs with an Allen Wrench? tnx, Mike


Ref:

    When talking about the “allowable” safe force  to lock clutch knobs , you should always STRESS the fact that you are talking about the NEW mounts AP-(1100, 1600, 32000) , and definitely not the old model AP-(900 & 1200).
 
    Tightening the latter’s clutches with an Allen Key will definitely squish – you often say “mushroom” - the Delrin plugs into the clutch knob threaded hole wall, and make it impossible to ever extract them for replacement – even using the special AP extraction screwdriver, which just chips them like sugar cubes.
 
    I speak from very bitter experience. Took an enormous  effort,  special tools, unique procedures, and lots of AP tech advice tips,  to finally get them out and replaced. Now I tighten “pinky-finger tight”, and leave solving other problems to perfect counterweighting.
 
Joe


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Roland Christen
 

Before you do that, go back to my first post and do what I suggested.
Then, with the lever half way up (90 degrees from fully locked), gently push on the counterweight shaft with 1 finger back and forth and see if the axis rocks. Very gentle push back and forth, 1 finger.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics inc.
aka Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: John Davis <johncdavis200@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2020 9:26 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Ok. Removed the cover for the worm.  I did not feel any movement of the Worm when I moved the clutch assembly.  So that does not appear to be the problem.
On to the main bearing retainer nut... 


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

John Davis
 

Ok. Removed the cover for the worm.  I did not feel any movement of the Worm when I moved the clutch assembly.  So that does not appear to be the problem.
On to the main bearing retainer nut... 


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

John Davis
 

Will do. Thanks!


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Roland Christen
 

The black nut covering the worm end simply unscrews. Check that first before you check the main bearings.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: John Davis <johncdavis200@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2020 9:21 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Sorry - 2 more questions Rolando:

1). How do I get to the Worm end nut?  I see a round cap on the gear box - but it does not easily move - so I was not comfortable trying to force it  to move - is that the access point to get to the Worm end nut?  If so - how is it removed. If not please tell me where it is accessed

2). you described removing the "cwt adapter on the end of the RA axis" - I'm not sure what this referrs to.  I removed the Dec axis assembly which gave me access to the inside of the RA clutch assembly, but I did not see anything that looked like the "main bearing retainer nut" - could you clarify your description of how to access that retainer nut?

Thanks - sorry to be so dense about this - I'm reading the manual looking for these descriptions of parts - and things do not match up, and I'm being extra cautious at this early point in my ownership of the Mach1.

John


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

John Davis
 

Sorry - 2 more questions Rolando:

1). How do I get to the Worm end nut?  I see a round cap on the gear box - but it does not easily move - so I was not comfortable trying to force it  to move - is that the access point to get to the Worm end nut?  If so - how is it removed. If not please tell me where it is accessed

2). you described removing the "cwt adapter on the end of the RA axis" - I'm not sure what this referrs to.  I removed the Dec axis assembly which gave me access to the inside of the RA clutch assembly, but I did not see anything that looked like the "main bearing retainer nut" - could you clarify your description of how to access that retainer nut?

Thanks - sorry to be so dense about this - I'm reading the manual looking for these descriptions of parts - and things do not match up, and I'm being extra cautious at this early point in my ownership of the Mach1.

John


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Roland Christen
 

Just wrapping aluminum foil over the USB cable will not shield it. The shield must terminate to a ground on both ends of the cable.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: DFisch <manusfisch@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2020 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 10:52 Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Liam

So I made some measurements with WIFI Analyzer, and it goes from -35db to -80db depending on my position compared to the CP5, but the problem is that when I turn on the computer with the USB3 connected and the antenna raised , the GTOCP5 hotspot disappears, so no measure possible of course. When I put the aluminum foil back on the antenna the hotspot reappears. I also made another test with a small USB2 extension cable (50cm) on the connection to my computer and there with the antenna raised and without aluminum foil the hotspot also reappears !!! This suggests that the "USB3" stream creates interference via the antenna which goes as far as "hiding" the hotspot, because if I move the CP5 away from the USB3 cable it works again.
You should be able to reproduce this situation I think.

Best regards
Dominique


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

DFisch
 


On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 10:52 Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Liam

So I made some measurements with WIFI Analyzer, and it goes from -35db to -80db depending on my position compared to the CP5, but the problem is that when I turn on the computer with the USB3 connected and the antenna raised , the GTOCP5 hotspot disappears, so no measure possible of course. When I put the aluminum foil back on the antenna the hotspot reappears. I also made another test with a small USB2 extension cable (50cm) on the connection to my computer and there with the antenna raised and without aluminum foil the hotspot also reappears !!! This suggests that the "USB3" stream creates interference via the antenna which goes as far as "hiding" the hotspot, because if I move the CP5 away from the USB3 cable it works again.
You should be able to reproduce this situation I think.

Best regards
Dominique


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Dominique Durand
 

Hi Rolando, Hi Liam
I just tested by surrounding the USB3 cables near the CP5, with aluminum foil and the antenna raised, it does not give anything better. There may be a set of factors which combine on my installation to arrive at this situation (USB3, CC, ...). It would take other devices than the ones I have to measure the different fields present in this area.We know that there can be a problem like this and we know there is a solution for it to work, that's the main thing right?
Thanks to you two
Best regards
Dominique


Re: DEC ignored during PEM recording?

Brian
 

in case somebody else has this issue: the problem disappeared when I upgraded my control box firmware (to  VCP4-P01-14 from  VCP4-P01-02 :-)


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Roland Christen
 


I'm not sure they are actually armored
I have several USB3 cables and they do have shields surrounding the wires. The cables are quite thick compared to USB2 cables.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2020 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 06:23 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
Your USB3 cable is probably not shielded, so it creates interference.
 
Rolando
Thanks Rolando,
I'm not sure they are actually armored and so that explains it. I'll check by surrounding those near the CP5 with aluminum foil. On the other hand, the fact of putting a small Usb2 extension cable in the path eliminates the problem.
Best Regards
Dominique


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Dominique Durand
 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 06:23 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
Your USB3 cable is probably not shielded, so it creates interference.
 
Rolando
Thanks Rolando,
I'm not sure they are actually armored and so that explains it. I'll check by surrounding those near the CP5 with aluminum foil. On the other hand, the fact of putting a small Usb2 extension cable in the path eliminates the problem.
Best Regards
Dominique


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Roland Christen
 

Your USB3 cable is probably not shielded, so it creates interference.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2020 9:52 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Hi Liam

So I made some measurements with WIFI Analyzer, and it goes from -35db to -80db depending on my position compared to the CP5, but the problem is that when I turn on the computer with the USB3 connected and the antenna raised , the GTOCP5 hotspot disappears, so no measure possible of course. When I put the aluminum foil back on the antenna the hotspot reappears. I also made another test with a small USB2 extension cable (50cm) on the connection to my computer and there with the antenna raised and without aluminum foil the hotspot also reappears !!! This suggests that the "USB3" stream creates interference via the antenna which goes as far as "hiding" the hotspot, because if I move the CP5 away from the USB3 cable it works again.
You should be able to reproduce this situation I think.

Best regards
Dominique


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Roland Christen
 


've read through your post about 4 times now - looking at the mount.  Is the adjustment that you are describing here the same as is outlined in https://www.astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/mach1gto/mach1gto-auto-adjusting-gearbox.pdf --- or is this a different/additional adjustment?  I'm a bit confused. 
The adjustment that is in the PDF is correct. However, it is fundamental and lacks some context that would let you understand exactly what is happening. I attempted to give you some instructions so that you can get a full appreciation and better understand exactly what this lever does when you lock and unlock the gearbox.

What you are actually doing when you rotate the lever counterclockwise is the following: the first 90 degrees of rotation backs off the backstop, but does not take the gears out of mesh. The next 90 degrees counterclockwise pulls the gears out of mesh. Turning it clockwise reverses the action. Until you understand that you will have no clue as to what this lever actually does and why the adjustment is there for you. We have had a number of customers in the past actually adjust the backstop backwards which made the gears go out of mesh rather than go into mesh. So, I just wanted you to have the full knowledge of how the system works and not treat it like a black box that you need to be afraid of.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: John Davis <johncdavis200@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Rolando - 
   I've read through your post about 4 times now - looking at the mount.  Is the adjustment that you are describing here the same as is outlined in https://www.astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/mach1gto/mach1gto-auto-adjusting-gearbox.pdf --- or is this a different/additional adjustment?  I'm a bit confused.  If you are describing what is in the pdf at that link - then I have attempted that adjustment several times, and it has made no difference in the amount of play. 

I have checked the counterweight shaft - it is tightly attached - that is not the source of the motion.  Tomorrow I will remove the declination assembly and check the main bearing retainer nut.

Please advise if I am mis-understanding the worm adjustment that you are describing. 
Thanks and sorry for being so dense understanding your post.
John


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Dominique Durand
 

Hi Liam

So I made some measurements with WIFI Analyzer, and it goes from -35db to -80db depending on my position compared to the CP5, but the problem is that when I turn on the computer with the USB3 connected and the antenna raised , the GTOCP5 hotspot disappears, so no measure possible of course. When I put the aluminum foil back on the antenna the hotspot reappears. I also made another test with a small USB2 extension cable (50cm) on the connection to my computer and there with the antenna raised and without aluminum foil the hotspot also reappears !!! This suggests that the "USB3" stream creates interference via the antenna which goes as far as "hiding" the hotspot, because if I move the CP5 away from the USB3 cable it works again.
You should be able to reproduce this situation I think.

Best regards
Dominique


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

John Davis
 

Rolando - 
   I've read through your post about 4 times now - looking at the mount.  Is the adjustment that you are describing here the same as is outlined in https://www.astro-physics.info/tech_support/mounts/mach1gto/mach1gto-auto-adjusting-gearbox.pdf --- or is this a different/additional adjustment?  I'm a bit confused.  If you are describing what is in the pdf at that link - then I have attempted that adjustment several times, and it has made no difference in the amount of play. 

I have checked the counterweight shaft - it is tightly attached - that is not the source of the motion.  Tomorrow I will remove the declination assembly and check the main bearing retainer nut.

Please advise if I am mis-understanding the worm adjustment that you are describing. 
Thanks and sorry for being so dense understanding your post.
John


Re: Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

Roland Christen
 

There is a lever on the side of the gearbox. It is under a cover that snaps off if you pull on it. With counterweight down and no scope on the mount, turn the lever fully counterclockwise (about 180 degrees from the locked position). Doing that, you will pull the gearbox completely out of mesh, so that the worm gear teeth and the worm wheel teeth are no longer in contact with each other. Take a look at this position of the gearbox and familiarize yourself with the action so that you understand fully how the worm gear and worm wheel are meshed together, and how the gear and wheel actually work.

Once you understand that, turn the lever 1/2 way clockwise so that it points up (about 90 degrees from the unlocked position). Notice how the gearbox moves the worm gear into the teeth of the worm wheel. At this point the spring is pushing the entire gearbox assembly in a clockwise direction and the two gears should be fully mated. You can manually pull the gearbox away from mesh with your hand and you will feel the spring action wanting to push it back into mesh.

Once you fully understand that action, turn the lever gently clockwise until you can feel some resistance, or until it snaps into place pointing toward the worm gears. In that position you should be able to pull the gearbox back from mesh only very slightly because now there is a backstop preventing the gears from coming out of mesh. You can adjust the backstop position by loosening the two screws on either side of the lever and gently pushing the plate downward with finger pressure and tightening the two screws while maintaining that pressure.  This should cause the worm and worm wheel to be fully engaged and fully meshed.

Now, if the axis still moves when you put slight pressure on the counterweight shaft, then there are two possibilities. The worm is held in place by an end nut. If this nut comes loose (due to shipping vibration) then the worm can move back and forth and make it look like the gears are not in mesh. You can out your finger on the end of the worm gear and rock the axis via the cwt shaft - you may be able to feel the worm move. If it does, then the end play nut is loose and needs to be tightened. If it does not move and is tight then there are two other possibilities.

Your counterweight shaft might be loose in it's threaded end adapter. Tighten it and try again.

The second possibility is that the main bearing retainer nut has vibrated loose during shipping. That can be easily tightened. You will need to remove the counterweight shaft and the cwt adapter on the end of the RA axis. You can then look inside the axis and see the main bearing retainer nut. You can hand tighten it with a simple spanner wrench.

Try these suggestions and see if any of them work. The mount is quite basic, and once you play around with it a bit you will begin to understand how it is put together. Nothing fancy about this mount and nothing you can really mess up if you are in the least mechanical.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: John Davis <johncdavis200@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 6:34 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 play in RA Axis - did not adjust out with Gear Mesh adjustment

I have a new-to-me Mach1 that I received last week via UPS from its original owner.  The mount was securely shipped in a pelican case with a custom foam cutout that securely held it in place.  

I have now begun to assemble the mount on its new tripod, and after putting the mount on the tripod, I noticed that there was some play in both the Dec and RA axies with the clutches finger tightened.  I read the section of the Manual about the Gear Mesh adjustments.  This mount was sold new in June 2016, so it has the auto-adjusting motor gearbox.  I followed the instructions in this section of the manual to perform those adjustments.  That adjustment took all the play out of the Dec axis - it is rock solid now.  However, the RA axis still has seemingly the same amount of play in it as it did before the adjustment.  I repeated the process on the RA axis another time or two to make sure that I did it correctly.

I'd like some input from you all who are long-term owners about what the problem might be (if it is a problem) and what the solution might be.  I've contacted AP but have not heard back from them yet.

I've attached a short video illustrating what I'm seeing.
Thanks!

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