Date   

Re: AP Driver fails on serial port after PC repair

Ray Gralak
 

Gert,

I went through the latest logs, and at least one showed good comunication to the CP3, so I don't think the problem is with your CP3.

I went through 2 shoe-boxes of USB cables / USB adapter plugs. Something there got really picky. Not sure what's
going on.
The weakest link in your setup is going to be the USB/serial converter. They are only as reliable as the driver and the components of the converter.

Most USB cables have a length restriction of about 15 feet, so it's best to find a serial/USB converter with a short pigtail. Then you can use a DB9 male-to-female serial cable from the adapter to the mount. The serial cable can be much longer than 15 feet and still maintain reliable operation.

Also, using a USB hub can cause problems, so avoid using one if you can.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of drgert1 via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 11:05 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP Driver fails on serial port after PC repair

Hi Ray,

Thanks for making the log-zip utility this nice small standalone package!

I went through 2 shoe-boxes of USB cables / USB adapter plugs. Something there got really picky. Not sure what's
going on.

My prev. connection (which I like) is :
Mount - 1:1 serial cable - USB adapter plug - USB pigtail extension - laptop.
The pig tail extension (2ft) is there just to strain relieve the USB connector at the computer. Not really necessary but
I like it that way.

Replacing USB adapter plug AND pig tail I got to a connection that worked. I have logs here.
http://skywatcher.space/download/AscomZip-Gert-2020-09-27-104919.zip

The last ones show a 'working' connection. 2020-09-27 02:40:24

I tried my 'old' cable setup with my older 'astro' laptop (win7) and it was OK, though more experiment is needed. It
go too late.



* Is there a B BIOS / driver setting on the PC side that controls USB OS priority that I forgot about and that has
to be re-established in the new mainboard? The board is a 100% same Dell part (alas from ebay) down to
manufacturing rev/date silk screen print.
* Is there a failure mechanism in GTOCP3 where the serial is loosing oooompf ??
* Can I debug the setup in the bench just with the GTOCP3 (no mount) to simplify thing? (What should I look
for to check connection? / I can't press the mount move buttons in the driver and check mount motion then)
* I am thinking that the USB serial should be a rock solid connection with no 'cable dependent' failure modes.
It's solid wire connection / nowhere near demanding signal frequencies / 30 year established tech)


Cheers,
Gert


Re: AP Driver fails on serial port after PC repair

drgert1
 

Hi Ray,

Thanks for making the log-zip utility this  nice small standalone package!

I went through 2 shoe-boxes of USB cables / USB adapter plugs.  Something there got really picky. Not sure what's going on.

My prev. connection (which I like) is :
Mount - 1:1 serial cable - USB adapter plug - USB pigtail extension - laptop.
The pig tail extension (2ft) is there just to strain relieve the USB connector at the computer. Not really necessary but I like it that way.

Replacing USB adapter plug AND pig tail I got to a connection that worked. I have logs here.
http://skywatcher.space/download/AscomZip-Gert-2020-09-27-104919.zip

The last ones show a 'working' connection. 2020-09-27 02:40:24

I tried my 'old' cable setup with my older 'astro' laptop  (win7) and it was OK, though more experiment is needed. It go too late.

  • Is there a B BIOS / driver setting on the PC side that controls USB OS priority that I forgot about and that has to be re-established in the new mainboard? The board is a 100% same Dell part (alas from ebay) down to manufacturing rev/date silk screen print.
  • Is there a failure mechanism in GTOCP3 where the serial is loosing oooompf ??
  • Can I debug the setup in the bench just with the GTOCP3 (no mount) to simplify thing? (What should I look for to check connection? / I can't press the mount move buttons in the driver and check mount motion then)
  • I am thinking that the USB serial should be a rock solid connection with no 'cable dependent' failure modes. It's solid wire connection / nowhere near demanding signal frequencies / 30 year established tech)

Cheers,
Gert


Re: Counterweights...How Much Is Too Much Too Balance? AP1100GTO

Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
 

Thanks Rolando,

Guess I'll be ordering another 30lber :)


Re: Counterweights...How Much Is Too Much Too Balance? AP1100GTO

Roland Christen
 

Won't hurt the mount.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2020 12:12 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Counterweights...How Much Is Too Much Too Balance? AP1100GTO

I've mounted a new scope I have...Plane Wave 12.5. I have the scope as far forward as I want in the saddle (might be able to move it another 2" ahead). Right now I have 110lbs of CW and it still isn't perfectly balanced (probably need another 10lbs.

Is having 110lbs of CW okay? The scope with the imaging train is probably 80lbs?


Re: 900 Clutch Plug Help

Roland Christen
 


I’m calling Astro-Physics tomorrow to get some info on how to know the gears are meshed properly.
Loosen the 2 bolts. Then gently snugh one of the two to use as a pivot while the other is still loose. Gently push the motor box into mesh while simultaneously tightening the loose bolt. Finish by tightening the other bolt. That's it, you are good to go.

It is not important to have very tight mesh in RA. Gentle mesh and even slightly loose will not affect imaging or guiding performance. It is more important to not have worm gears binding. You will get much smoother performance and lowest PE with gentle mesh and even slightly loose mesh. This is true of every mount ever made.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: rrumfield via groups.io <rrumfield@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2020 12:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] 900 Clutch Plug Help

Sean thanks for the reply.  I didn’t see your message until just now.  After a sleepless night, my wife and I started this morning and reassembled our mount.  After some trial and error we figured out how to put it back together.  We just put the motor on the RA.  I haven’t applied any electricity to the mount until I get some help with making certain the gears are meshed properly.  We only took the motor off by using the two unpainted bolts and it seemed to go back on the RA gear ok.  I’m calling Astro-Physics tomorrow to get some info on how to know the gears are meshed properly.

Bob


Counterweights...How Much Is Too Much Too Balance? AP1100GTO

Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
 

I've mounted a new scope I have...Plane Wave 12.5. I have the scope as far forward as I want in the saddle (might be able to move it another 2" ahead). Right now I have 110lbs of CW and it still isn't perfectly balanced (probably need another 10lbs.

Is having 110lbs of CW okay? The scope with the imaging train is probably 80lbs?


Re: 900 Clutch Plug Help

rrumfield
 

Sean thanks for the reply.  I didn’t see your message until just now.  After a sleepless night, my wife and I started this morning and reassembled our mount.  After some trial and error we figured out how to put it back together.  We just put the motor on the RA.  I haven’t applied any electricity to the mount until I get some help with making certain the gears are meshed properly.  We only took the motor off by using the two unpainted bolts and it seemed to go back on the RA gear ok.  I’m calling Astro-Physics tomorrow to get some info on how to know the gears are meshed properly.

Bob


Re: AP Driver fails on serial port after PC repair

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Gert,

Changing the FTDI USB adapter improved connections but now the AP driver UI shows all coordinates at
initialization values.
None of your logs show the mount is responding, but maybe you haven't included the latest?

After a new mainboard you usually should reinstall the chipset drivers in case there are any hardware differences in the new mainboard.

Also, have you double checked power to the mount and tried a different cable?

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of drgert1 via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:04 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] AP Driver fails on serial port after PC repair

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi,

Following a bad charging circuit I had to replace the main board in my Dell laptop.
With that done the AP driver fails on the serial connection to the mount.
The same was working fine before.
Maybe some setting I have to re-do?

http://skywatcher.space/download/AP_Driver_serial_fail_20200927.mp4

UPDATE:
Changing the FTDI USB adapter improved connections but now the AP driver UI shows all coordinates at
initialization values.

Logfiles :
http://skywatcher.space/download/AscomZip-Gert-2020-09-27-015033.zip

Thanks,
Gert


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

 

I am locking this topic since it has gone off the rails.  Ray has indicated that ASTAP will be considered for the future, but we must be sure that it is a solid product that will provide accurate information and integrate smoothly. 
--
Marj Christen
Astro-Physics


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Dean Jacobsen
 

Is there a moderator?
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin Image Gallery - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 
Amateur Radio Call Sign - W6DBJ


Re: 900 Clutch Plug Help

Sean Curry <sxcurry@...>
 

Hi Bob,

I did this a few years back with my AP900 - all the clutch plugs were stuck and I disassembled it to remove them. I can't remember the exact process, but putting it back together wasn't too difficult - you shouldn't need to send it back to AP. If I remember correctly, George at AP sent me some helpful instructions, which I can't seem to find right now. One piece of advice he gave me was to keep all the Delrin rollers in a box so that the cat didn't start playing with them!

Maybe contact George and get his advice.

Sean

On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 1:42 PM rrumfield via groups.io <rrumfield=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

After sometime off from using my 900GTO mount, I realized I needed to replace the clutch plugs on the right ascension unit.  I ordered the removal tool and new plugs.  The first plug removal was a learning experience and didn’t get totally removed, the other three were no problem.  I started to disassemble the R.A unit to get the first plug out.  I didn’t realize it was filled with plastic rollers.  At present I have been able to re-assemble it with two rows of rollers and a center axis that just doesn’t seem to now fit into the RA head properly.  Does anyone have the procedure to re-assemble the unit?  Should I send all back to Astro-Physics at this point?

Help,
Bob


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Peter Bresler
 

I might suggest that you can circumvent the entire issue of nudging the mount for centering by using plate solves and centering in a program like SGP which will quickly and easily autocenter the object you want to photograph.


Re: Guiding with a different mount

Roland Christen
 

Each mount requires its own calibration. Do not use one for the other. Too many variables.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Phillips <llp41astro@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2020 9:04 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Guiding with a different mount

Is there any reason that a guider calibration done with the Mach1 would not work with a Mach2?

Larry


Re: Guiding with a different mount

Dale Ghent
 

Yes, plenty of reasons. For one you could be correcting for backlash that does not exist on your Mach2. 

If you are using PHD2, just make a n hardware profile for the Mach2 using the profile wizard and then run it through the Guiding Assistant under the Tools menu. Apply any recommendations it has and you have your start. 

On Sep 27, 2020, at 10:04, Larry Phillips <llp41astro@...> wrote:

Is there any reason that a guider calibration done with the Mach1 would not work with a Mach2?

Larry


Guiding with a different mount

Larry Phillips
 

Is there any reason that a guider calibration done with the Mach1 would not work with a Mach2?

Larry


Re: Mach2 Wifi problems #Mach2GTO #WiFi

Dominique Durand
 

Hi Liam,
Hi All,

In my case, the problem was not that the CP5 was not emitting enough when the computer was plugged in, but that it was emitting too much with the antenna active. The new CP5 manual with the chapter TROUBLESHOOTING, TIPS AND SUPPORT gives the solution. With the antenna lying down or not but surrounded by an aluminum foil no more worries. I just tested.

Clear Skies

Dominique


AP Driver fails on serial port after PC repair

drgert1
 
Edited

Hi,

Following a bad charging circuit I had to replace the main board in my Dell laptop.
With that done the AP driver fails on the serial connection to the mount.
The same was working fine before.
Maybe some setting I have to re-do?

http://skywatcher.space/download/AP_Driver_serial_fail_20200927.mp4

UPDATE:
Changing the FTDI USB adapter improved connections but now the AP driver UI shows all coordinates at initialization values.

Logfiles :
http://skywatcher.space/download/AscomZip-Gert-2020-09-27-015033.zip

Thanks,
Gert


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

On Sep 27, 2020, at 1:29 AM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:

Ok, so I ran these myself and they solved in 0.2 and 0.3 seconds with the G18 database. It seems that however
these images were generated, they were generated with a small enough FoV that they didn't include enough stars
that were in the G17 database.
Okay I'll try that. Thanks.

Does G17 mean the stars have a 17th magnitude limit? (PinPoint solved it with a mag 15 limit.)
Yes, that's what it means. Han has prepared a few databases for use, with the G17 one fitting most needs down to a 20 armin FoVs. If you FoV is smaller than that, he says the G18 database will be needed. He describes them as such:

* G16 COLOUR Gaia DR2 up to Johnson V-magnitude 16, containing 60 million stars, including star colour information, native 290-6 format, 346 MB, epoch 2022.

* G17 Gaia DR2 up to BP-magnitude 17, containing 105 million stars, native 290-5 format, 503 MB, epoch 2022

* G17 COLOUR Gaia DR2 up to Johnson V-magnitude 17, containing 105 million stars, including star colour information, native 290-6 format, 690 MB, epoch 2022.

* G18 Gaia DR2 up to BP-magnitude 18, containing 208 million stars, native 290-5 format, 996 MB, epoch 2022.

* Hyperleda, a very large galaxy database for deep sky annotation. 2.190.000 objects.


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Ok, so I ran these myself and they solved in 0.2 and 0.3 seconds with the G18 database. It seems that however
these images were generated, they were generated with a small enough FoV that they didn't include enough stars
that were in the G17 database.
Okay I'll try that. Thanks.

Does G17 mean the stars have a 17th magnitude limit? (PinPoint solved it with a mag 15 limit.)

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 10:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE



On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:



Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have
been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could
be SGP), that
it's already been fixed.



Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is
released as v1.0?

I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to
get an emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails
despite that it seemed to extra the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.

Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?


Ok, so I ran these myself and they solved in 0.2 and 0.3 seconds with the G18 database. It seems that however
these images were generated, they were generated with a small enough FoV that they didn't include enough stars
that were in the G17 database.

00:59:50 Start finding stars
00:59:50 213 stars found of the requested 500. Background value is 3487. Detection level used 10027 above
background. Star level is 10027 above background. Noise level is 316
00:59:50 550 stars found of the requested 500. Background value is 3487. Detection level used 4740 above
background. Star level is 10027 above background. Noise level is 316
00:59:50 Selecting the 500 brightest stars only.
00:59:50 Finding stars done in 176 ms
00:59:50 510 stars selected and 416 quads selected in the image. 430 database stars required for the square
search field of 0.5°. Search window at 200%
00:59:50 Using star database G18
00:59:50 Search 0, [0,0], position: 15: 19 49.5 +70° 03 12 Up to magn 18.0 816 database quads to compare.
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 101.345565%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 121.156045%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 135.973701%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 99.253178%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 99.287188%
00:59:50 14 of 19 quads selected matching within 0.007 tolerance. Solution x:=1.621520*x+ 0.000907*y+ -
1296.950386, y:=-0.000450*x+ 1.622169*y+ -972.841391
00:59:50 Solution found: 15: 19 49.5 +70° 03 11 Solved in 0.2 sec. Offset was 0.000 deg. Used stars up to
magnitude: 18.0
00:59:51 See viewer image for image stars used (red) and database star used (yellow)




locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

Honestly the virtual cameras like this are useful; I use them all the time. Han even makes one himself and he uses it for testing ASTAP:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/sky-simulator/

It can use DSS survey images or generate simulated images using the same G17/G18 star databases that ASTAP uses.

Yes, the images that come out of things like NASA's or ESO's sky survey sites can be wonky and not at all examples of an unstretched FIT image that's right off our own cameras, but it does work and has some utility, as Ray pointed out. The issue here tonight was just a case of image FoV not matching up with the database that was used; which I mentioned earlier in the thread. This is the same situation one would run into by not having the correct index files downloaded in ASPS/ansvr.

/dale

On Sep 27, 2020, at 1:07 AM, Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:

Good work sir.

These are still not use cases that anyone would encounter. Testing a toaster to find out if it makes coffee or not isnt relevent. This is the same..


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 10:03 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE



On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP), that
it's already been fixed.
Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is released as v1.0?

I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get an emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails despite that it seemed to extra the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.

Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?
Ok, so I ran these myself and they solved in 0.2 and 0.3 seconds with the G18 database. It seems that however these images were generated, they were generated with a small enough FoV that they didn't include enough stars that were in the G17 database.

00:59:50 Start finding stars
00:59:50 213 stars found of the requested 500. Background value is 3487. Detection level used 10027 above background. Star level is 10027 above background. Noise level is 316
00:59:50 550 stars found of the requested 500. Background value is 3487. Detection level used 4740 above background. Star level is 10027 above background. Noise level is 316
00:59:50 Selecting the 500 brightest stars only.
00:59:50 Finding stars done in 176 ms
00:59:50 510 stars selected and 416 quads selected in the image. 430 database stars required for the square search field of 0.5°. Search window at 200%
00:59:50 Using star database G18
00:59:50 Search 0, [0,0],
position: 15: 19 49.5
+70° 03 12 Up to magn 18.0 816 database quads to compare.
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 101.345565%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 121.156045%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 135.973701%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 99.253178%
00:59:50 quad outlier removed due to abnormal size: 99.287188%
00:59:50 14 of 19 quads selected matching within 0.007 tolerance. Solution x:=1.621520*x+ 0.000907*y+ -1296.950386, y:=-0.000450*x+ 1.622169*y+ -972.841391
00:59:50 Solution found: 15: 19 49.5
+70° 03 11 Solved in 0.2 sec. Offset was 0.000 deg.
Used stars up to magnitude: 18.0
00:59:51 See viewer image for image stars used (red) and database star used (yellow)

<Screen Shot 2020-09-27 at 1.03.18 AM.png>

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