Date   

locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

 

>>> Pinpoint for me is a no-brainer to NOT purchase.

fair enough, everyone has their own view of things

And I generally agree, pinpoint compared to other solutions does seem a bit outdated on a number of fronts. 

But I bought Pinpoint and I'm really enjoying the benefits of APCC/APPM right now, particularly doing unguided exposures on the CDK17, which wouldn't be possible otherwise.

If APCC supports ASTAP in the future (or whatever else) and does an equally good job, I'll revisit it then. 





On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 7:25 PM Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:
APCC is $500. That is well worth the price of admission as it is a very well featured piece of software that extends the experience with the product greatly.

PinPoint is ancient old tech that has no place in its asking price at all. No one in the modern world with a clue would spend $150 for software that does nothing other than Platesolve. That might have been cool interesting stuff 15 years ago, but that was then, this is now, and its a waste.

The value prop I get from my mount does not change at all either way. Pinpoint for me is a no-brainer to NOT purchase. I am also 41 and work in technology, so perhaps that skews my view of this situation for folks that may be in later stages of life.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 

My AP mount (and presumably yours) cost untold thousands of dollars (worth it), 

Filters, camera etc. telescope are probably equivalent but likely more. 

APCC costs about 1500 full price(?)

and you want to quibble about $150 for a plate solving solution that makes your pointing and tracking significantly improved?

 This totally mystifies me. 

APCC Pro and pinpoint to me are the biggest no-brainer decision. It's one of the smallest expenses in this whole setup. it's probably less than just the tax we paid for the camera!



On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 6:35 PM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:

So here's the the main issue I have that has been preventing me from wanting to upgrade from Standard to Pro: I have to buy other software to make APPM work, and APPM is really one of the primary reasons for going to APCC Pro.

ANSVR, Astrometry.Net, ASTAP, ASPS, PlateSolve2... these are all free(*) solvers with various qualities and capabilities. But to use them with APPM, I have to put some other non-free (and now, subscription-based) software in front of them, such as TSX, SGPro or PinPoint. I have -zero- other uses for such software; if I bought (or subscribed) to them, I would be doing so only to be able to use APPM. This really feels like it could be a better arrangement.

I think what people, and certainly myself, would like is for APPM to not have this dependency and for it to be able to plate solve on its own using any (or all!) of the aforementioned solving suites. Let APPM run an ASCOM camera, and devise an internal Interface that would let you make a driver for each of whatever solvers you'd like to support. At that point, the user now has the power to choose which solver they wish to use, wether it be ASTAP or PS2 or whatever else - and do so without the middleware.

The internal interface for plate solvers is what we had to do in NINA because we realized that different folks have their preferences for solvers, sometimes nearing total religious adherence. So if someone popped up asking if they could use some new and previously-unheard of XYZ Solver with the app, all we need to know is how to make XYZ Solver solve an image that we pass to it and how to parse its results through whatever means it makes those results available. Everyone is happy and there's yet another solver listed in the drop-down menu of solvers to choose from.

> On Sep 26, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>
> I don't even understand what that means?
>
> APPM does not natively plate solve. It uses an external plate solver. It simply reads the RA/Dec and other values from the solver,
> or intermediary app.
>
> For plate-solving I typically use PinPoint and all-sky backup to Astrometry.Net. I've done many thousands of plate solves. Maybe
> even hundreds of thousands. Unless there is a tree, clouds, or something else obscuring the sky, plate solves have been extremely
> reliable at the image scale I typically use (around 1.6 arc-sec/pixel). That said, PinPoint can have problems in areas of the sky
> where there are too many stars in the selected database, typically around the milkyway.
>
> If the image area is smaller, for example because of a longer focal length, it may be more of a challenge.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of PEMPro
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:48 AM
>> To: Ray Gralak; main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:26 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>>> It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
>>
>> I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.
>>
>> -Ray Gralak
>> Author of PEMPro
>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing is exposing it.  It could be as simple as
>> the
>>> fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.  As I mentioned, I've not had time
>>> to do any investigation at all yet.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>
>>> APPM doesn't know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for plate solving. APPM operates the same
>>> way for all SGPro plate solvers because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn't
>>> seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.
>>>
>>> -Ray Gralak
>>> Author of PEMPro
>>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
>>>> Of W Hilmo
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
>>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>








--
Brian 



Brian Valente



--
Brian 



Brian Valente


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Bill Long
 

APCC is $500. That is well worth the price of admission as it is a very well featured piece of software that extends the experience with the product greatly.

PinPoint is ancient old tech that has no place in its asking price at all. No one in the modern world with a clue would spend $150 for software that does nothing other than Platesolve. That might have been cool interesting stuff 15 years ago, but that was then, this is now, and its a waste.

The value prop I get from my mount does not change at all either way. Pinpoint for me is a no-brainer to NOT purchase. I am also 41 and work in technology, so perhaps that skews my view of this situation for folks that may be in later stages of life.



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Brian Valente <bvalente@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:20 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 

My AP mount (and presumably yours) cost untold thousands of dollars (worth it), 

Filters, camera etc. telescope are probably equivalent but likely more. 

APCC costs about 1500 full price(?)

and you want to quibble about $150 for a plate solving solution that makes your pointing and tracking significantly improved?

 This totally mystifies me. 

APCC Pro and pinpoint to me are the biggest no-brainer decision. It's one of the smallest expenses in this whole setup. it's probably less than just the tax we paid for the camera!



On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 6:35 PM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:

So here's the the main issue I have that has been preventing me from wanting to upgrade from Standard to Pro: I have to buy other software to make APPM work, and APPM is really one of the primary reasons for going to APCC Pro.

ANSVR, Astrometry.Net, ASTAP, ASPS, PlateSolve2... these are all free(*) solvers with various qualities and capabilities. But to use them with APPM, I have to put some other non-free (and now, subscription-based) software in front of them, such as TSX, SGPro or PinPoint. I have -zero- other uses for such software; if I bought (or subscribed) to them, I would be doing so only to be able to use APPM. This really feels like it could be a better arrangement.

I think what people, and certainly myself, would like is for APPM to not have this dependency and for it to be able to plate solve on its own using any (or all!) of the aforementioned solving suites. Let APPM run an ASCOM camera, and devise an internal Interface that would let you make a driver for each of whatever solvers you'd like to support. At that point, the user now has the power to choose which solver they wish to use, wether it be ASTAP or PS2 or whatever else - and do so without the middleware.

The internal interface for plate solvers is what we had to do in NINA because we realized that different folks have their preferences for solvers, sometimes nearing total religious adherence. So if someone popped up asking if they could use some new and previously-unheard of XYZ Solver with the app, all we need to know is how to make XYZ Solver solve an image that we pass to it and how to parse its results through whatever means it makes those results available. Everyone is happy and there's yet another solver listed in the drop-down menu of solvers to choose from.

> On Sep 26, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>
> I don't even understand what that means?
>
> APPM does not natively plate solve. It uses an external plate solver. It simply reads the RA/Dec and other values from the solver,
> or intermediary app.
>
> For plate-solving I typically use PinPoint and all-sky backup to Astrometry.Net. I've done many thousands of plate solves. Maybe
> even hundreds of thousands. Unless there is a tree, clouds, or something else obscuring the sky, plate solves have been extremely
> reliable at the image scale I typically use (around 1.6 arc-sec/pixel). That said, PinPoint can have problems in areas of the sky
> where there are too many stars in the selected database, typically around the milkyway.
>
> If the image area is smaller, for example because of a longer focal length, it may be more of a challenge.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of PEMPro
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:48 AM
>> To: Ray Gralak; main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:26 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>>> It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
>>
>> I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.
>>
>> -Ray Gralak
>> Author of PEMPro
>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing is exposing it.  It could be as simple as
>> the
>>> fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.  As I mentioned, I've not had time
>>> to do any investigation at all yet.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>
>>> APPM doesn't know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for plate solving. APPM operates the same
>>> way for all SGPro plate solvers because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn't
>>> seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.
>>>
>>> -Ray Gralak
>>> Author of PEMPro
>>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
>>>> Of W Hilmo
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
>>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>








--
Brian 



Brian Valente


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

I put a screen shot of one of the images loaded in that folder at the link.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Worsel via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

That's very weird...

See attached ASTAP screenshot

Bryan


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

 


My AP mount (and presumably yours) cost untold thousands of dollars (worth it), 

Filters, camera etc. telescope are probably equivalent but likely more. 

APCC costs about 1500 full price(?)

and you want to quibble about $150 for a plate solving solution that makes your pointing and tracking significantly improved?

 This totally mystifies me. 

APCC Pro and pinpoint to me are the biggest no-brainer decision. It's one of the smallest expenses in this whole setup. it's probably less than just the tax we paid for the camera!



On Sat, Sep 26, 2020 at 6:35 PM Dale Ghent <daleg@...> wrote:

So here's the the main issue I have that has been preventing me from wanting to upgrade from Standard to Pro: I have to buy other software to make APPM work, and APPM is really one of the primary reasons for going to APCC Pro.

ANSVR, Astrometry.Net, ASTAP, ASPS, PlateSolve2... these are all free(*) solvers with various qualities and capabilities. But to use them with APPM, I have to put some other non-free (and now, subscription-based) software in front of them, such as TSX, SGPro or PinPoint. I have -zero- other uses for such software; if I bought (or subscribed) to them, I would be doing so only to be able to use APPM. This really feels like it could be a better arrangement.

I think what people, and certainly myself, would like is for APPM to not have this dependency and for it to be able to plate solve on its own using any (or all!) of the aforementioned solving suites. Let APPM run an ASCOM camera, and devise an internal Interface that would let you make a driver for each of whatever solvers you'd like to support. At that point, the user now has the power to choose which solver they wish to use, wether it be ASTAP or PS2 or whatever else - and do so without the middleware.

The internal interface for plate solvers is what we had to do in NINA because we realized that different folks have their preferences for solvers, sometimes nearing total religious adherence. So if someone popped up asking if they could use some new and previously-unheard of XYZ Solver with the app, all we need to know is how to make XYZ Solver solve an image that we pass to it and how to parse its results through whatever means it makes those results available. Everyone is happy and there's yet another solver listed in the drop-down menu of solvers to choose from.

> On Sep 26, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>
> I don't even understand what that means?
>
> APPM does not natively plate solve. It uses an external plate solver. It simply reads the RA/Dec and other values from the solver,
> or intermediary app.
>
> For plate-solving I typically use PinPoint and all-sky backup to Astrometry.Net. I've done many thousands of plate solves. Maybe
> even hundreds of thousands. Unless there is a tree, clouds, or something else obscuring the sky, plate solves have been extremely
> reliable at the image scale I typically use (around 1.6 arc-sec/pixel). That said, PinPoint can have problems in areas of the sky
> where there are too many stars in the selected database, typically around the milkyway.
>
> If the image area is smaller, for example because of a longer focal length, it may be more of a challenge.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of PEMPro
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:48 AM
>> To: Ray Gralak; main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:26 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>>> It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
>>
>> I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.
>>
>> -Ray Gralak
>> Author of PEMPro
>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing is exposing it.  It could be as simple as
>> the
>>> fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.  As I mentioned, I've not had time
>>> to do any investigation at all yet.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>
>>> APPM doesn't know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for plate solving. APPM operates the same
>>> way for all SGPro plate solvers because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn't
>>> seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.
>>>
>>> -Ray Gralak
>>> Author of PEMPro
>>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
>>>> Of W Hilmo
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
>>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>








--
Brian 



Brian Valente


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Bill Long
 

Yeah thats because they are make-believe images from DSS. Not something a user would ever actually encounter. Testing this is a waste of time.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Worsel via groups.io <bryancashion@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:07 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 
Ray

I could not solve these in local astrometry.net, remote astrometry.net, ASTAP.  Further investigation shows that I cannot even open these in

ImagesPlus
NASA FITS Libeartor
ASIFitsView

Bryan


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Bill Long
 

Ray,

I dont "care that its free" but since you went there, I will be more frank. I think Pinpoint is ancient, overpriced, and along with everything else the author of that software writes - serves no other purpose than to continually gouge customers for no good reason. You need to separate "free" from modern in your mindset here. 

Tell ya what. I have some clear skies on Tuesday and will be testing out my new (to me) PL16803 camera on my AP 130 GTX. You are welcome to ride shotgun and watch the misery I have to go through when solving. Then I will show you how accurate and lightning fast ASTAP is when used to center my objects to the harsh levels I demand (10 arc-seconds tolerance).

This isnt the first time you have gone on a trip over the concept of "free". I do support developers well for products I think hit the watermark of useful and worth the price of admission in the modern world we exist in. I do not think Pinpoint (which is basically just a commercialized ripoff of Astronmetry.net) meets that bar.

-Bill 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:11 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 
Dale,

The issue I care about is the accuracy of its plate solves.

The issue you and others seem to most care about, is that it is free!

I would rather have slower, yet more accurate plate solves, so tracking rate modelling will be as accurate as possible. Until I can
run through a set of images to test accuracy I won't know.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C0f43f35b5241494cfa5d08d8628aa439%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367694879510877&amp;sdata=l7FBHZPAP5ARpVE9zPFbEBc3hJOFGT6mWFYqyno3Ud8%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C0f43f35b5241494cfa5d08d8628aa439%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367694879510877&amp;sdata=7QUjQtuk1iWkGDsK5a5%2B%2BLZkjyAuPQ%2FGR2Y3%2BnSWvKQ%3D&amp;reserved=0


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:54 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>
>
>
> > On Sep 26, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dale,
> >
> > I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has
> to be free, or
> > remain free?
>
> The ASTAP code is licensed under a very tested and common open source license, and the code as it is will remain
> free under the terms of that license. The only way that code could be made non-free is if all contributors to that code
> all voted favorably to change the license to a non-open one. If that happened the code as it was up to that point
> remains open, as it existed under the open license. Subsequent revisions will continue under the non-open license.
> This still allows someone to fork the codebase prior to the re-licensing and continue developing the software on their
> own, perhaps under a different organization or project, under the original open license. That's just how it works, and
> why I say that the code cannot just disappear.
>
> Believe me, Ray, it's not so common and certainly isn't as dire as a lot of people seem to make it out to be. Open
> source licenses would be pretty weak things if they permitted this stuff and we would not see open source
> frameworks, libraries, apps and entire operating environments flourish and end up in things from our home router to
> our car infotainment to medical devices if this were a real fear. Another thing that seems to get people confused is
> having an open source program but charging for support, which is a common model in the open source community
> that is used to support development.
>
> > I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.
> >
> > The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.
>
> Right, so I don't know what you got from the NASA server exactly so I passed you the list of things that make
> ASTAP work well. It's designed to be a solver for imagers and so it's really geared towards consuming data that
> would come from such an environment. Stretched, processed, and whatever else the NASA sky survey server
> (slowly) regurgitates might not fit the bill in that regard.
>
> /dale
>
>








locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Worsel
 

That's very weird...

See attached ASTAP screenshot

Bryan


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

The images solve in pinpoint, ccdstack, maximdl, and astap can open them too.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Worsel via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 7:08 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

Ray

I could not solve these in local astrometry.net, remote astrometry.net, ASTAP. Further investigation shows that I
cannot even open these in

ImagesPlus
NASA FITS Libeartor
ASIFitsView

Bryan


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Dale,

The issue I care about is the accuracy of its plate solves.

The issue you and others seem to most care about, is that it is free!

I would rather have slower, yet more accurate plate solves, so tracking rate modelling will be as accurate as possible. Until I can
run through a set of images to test accuracy I won't know.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:54 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE



On Sep 26, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has
to be free, or
remain free?
The ASTAP code is licensed under a very tested and common open source license, and the code as it is will remain
free under the terms of that license. The only way that code could be made non-free is if all contributors to that code
all voted favorably to change the license to a non-open one. If that happened the code as it was up to that point
remains open, as it existed under the open license. Subsequent revisions will continue under the non-open license.
This still allows someone to fork the codebase prior to the re-licensing and continue developing the software on their
own, perhaps under a different organization or project, under the original open license. That's just how it works, and
why I say that the code cannot just disappear.

Believe me, Ray, it's not so common and certainly isn't as dire as a lot of people seem to make it out to be. Open
source licenses would be pretty weak things if they permitted this stuff and we would not see open source
frameworks, libraries, apps and entire operating environments flourish and end up in things from our home router to
our car infotainment to medical devices if this were a real fear. Another thing that seems to get people confused is
having an open source program but charging for support, which is a common model in the open source community
that is used to support development.

I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.

The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.
Right, so I don't know what you got from the NASA server exactly so I passed you the list of things that make
ASTAP work well. It's designed to be a solver for imagers and so it's really geared towards consuming data that
would come from such an environment. Stretched, processed, and whatever else the NASA sky survey server
(slowly) regurgitates might not fit the bill in that regard.

/dale


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Worsel
 

Ray

I could not solve these in local astrometry.net, remote astrometry.net, ASTAP.  Further investigation shows that I cannot even open these in

ImagesPlus
NASA FITS Libeartor
ASIFitsView

Bryan


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

On Sep 26, 2020, at 9:24 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Hi Dale,

I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has to be free, or
remain free?
The ASTAP code is licensed under a very tested and common open source license, and the code as it is will remain free under the terms of that license. The only way that code could be made non-free is if all contributors to that code all voted favorably to change the license to a non-open one. If that happened the code as it was up to that point remains open, as it existed under the open license. Subsequent revisions will continue under the non-open license. This still allows someone to fork the codebase prior to the re-licensing and continue developing the software on their own, perhaps under a different organization or project, under the original open license. That's just how it works, and why I say that the code cannot just disappear.

Believe me, Ray, it's not so common and certainly isn't as dire as a lot of people seem to make it out to be. Open source licenses would be pretty weak things if they permitted this stuff and we would not see open source frameworks, libraries, apps and entire operating environments flourish and end up in things from our home router to our car infotainment to medical devices if this were a real fear. Another thing that seems to get people confused is having an open source program but charging for support, which is a common model in the open source community that is used to support development.

I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.

The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.
Right, so I don't know what you got from the NASA server exactly so I passed you the list of things that make ASTAP work well. It's designed to be a solver for imagers and so it's really geared towards consuming data that would come from such an environment. Stretched, processed, and whatever else the NASA sky survey server (slowly) regurgitates might not fit the bill in that regard.

/dale


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Also, for some reason it displays images flipped vertically by default.

Here is a link to a folder with two images. What I tried is: load the FITS file in the UI and clicked the Solve button.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qlp1qgtaptccyu4/AADaSEl7EE0z1VO298pFGs2Ea?dl=0


-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:28 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

Post the FITS image file please.
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:24 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

Hi Dale,

I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has to
be free, or
remain free?

I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.

The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%
7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=F5Ig87yZjOBii2bvXlbxkHburljTKUJBpSqYm2Ye4O4%3D&amp;re
served=0 <https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%
7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=F5Ig87yZjOBii2bvXlbxkHburljTKUJBpSqYm2Ye4O4%3D&amp;re
served=0>
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
ata=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=XqAPTrD21MCZ3xsV4%2BAJPJbosp8E2O3zuD0X7vsin0E%3D&amp;rese
rved=0
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;
data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=XqAPTrD21MCZ3xsV4%2BAJPJbosp8E2O3zuD0X7vsin0E%3D&amp;res
erved=0>


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE



On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be
SGP),
that
it's already been fixed.
Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is
released as v1.0?

What can I say, Han doesn't really care about versioning. I wouldn't quibble over that since we as developers
know
that versioning can be rather arbitrary. At any rate, the source for ASTAP and all of Han's other projects are
licensed under the GNU GPLv3 license, which is one of the most commonly-used open source licenses out there.
No one, not even himself, can suddenly disappear that code as part of any attempt to make it closed-source.
Doing
so would violate one of the core points that comprise the GNU GPL and other open source licenses like it.

I've noticed that the "but what if he/she/they charges for it later" response is common, especially in the astro
scene,
when it comes to open source projects. This primarily indicates to me a lack of familiarity of what open source
licensing means and entails and maybe even an unfamiliarity with the open source community as a whole. If there
is
some confusion, please feel welcome to contact me directly and I can help explain any points of curiosity or
confusion.

I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get
an
emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails
despite
that it seemed to extract the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.

Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?
Might want to check out the "Quick checklist for solving" section in the ASTAP docs:
https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnsky.org%2Fastap.htm%23conditions&
amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=dDEaCWlKpGxYVLp527D1JjrflGs8FRHFkuE7wuePbAA%3D&amp;r
eserved=0
<https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnsky.org%2Fastap.htm%23conditions
&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C
1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=dDEaCWlKpGxYVLp527D1JjrflGs8FRHFkuE7wuePbAA%3D&amp;
reserved=0>

/dale









locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Bill Long
 

No disagreement from me. I do have SkyX, but it runs like a slug on my MiniPC I use for imaging, while PS2 and ASTAP run like lightning on it. Voyager (and NINA by the way) also run very smoothly on the MiniPC. I cringe when I have to open up SkyX to do my model building. The solves run so slow because the software is just a behemoth, and all I need it to do is run Image Link. 



From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:35 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 

So here's the the main issue I have that has been preventing me from wanting to upgrade from Standard to Pro: I have to buy other software to make APPM work, and APPM is really one of the primary reasons for going to APCC Pro.

ANSVR, Astrometry.Net, ASTAP, ASPS, PlateSolve2... these are all free(*) solvers with various qualities and capabilities. But to use them with APPM, I have to put some other non-free (and now, subscription-based) software in front of them, such as TSX, SGPro or PinPoint. I have -zero- other uses for such software; if I bought (or subscribed) to them, I would be doing so only to be able to use APPM. This really feels like it could be a better arrangement.

I think what people, and certainly myself, would like is for APPM to not have this dependency and for it to be able to plate solve on its own using any (or all!) of the aforementioned solving suites. Let APPM run an ASCOM camera, and devise an internal Interface that would let you make a driver for each of whatever solvers you'd like to support. At that point, the user now has the power to choose which solver they wish to use, wether it be ASTAP or PS2 or whatever else - and do so without the middleware.

The internal interface for plate solvers is what we had to do in NINA because we realized that different folks have their preferences for solvers, sometimes nearing total religious adherence. So if someone popped up asking if they could use some new and previously-unheard of XYZ Solver with the app, all we need to know is how to make XYZ Solver solve an image that we pass to it and how to parse its results through whatever means it makes those results available. Everyone is happy and there's yet another solver listed in the drop-down menu of solvers to choose from.

> On Sep 26, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>
> I don't even understand what that means?
>
> APPM does not natively plate solve. It uses an external plate solver. It simply reads the RA/Dec and other values from the solver,
> or intermediary app.
>
> For plate-solving I typically use PinPoint and all-sky backup to Astrometry.Net. I've done many thousands of plate solves. Maybe
> even hundreds of thousands. Unless there is a tree, clouds, or something else obscuring the sky, plate solves have been extremely
> reliable at the image scale I typically use (around 1.6 arc-sec/pixel). That said, PinPoint can have problems in areas of the sky
> where there are too many stars in the selected database, typically around the milkyway.
>
> If the image area is smaller, for example because of a longer focal length, it may be more of a challenge.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of PEMPro
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce44fc52051134aa30b7208d862859dfa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367673298046020&amp;sdata=JyZ0r6Co5EzRgzRdupHQx9LRrxmoB%2F9is0JvIuNUXxw%3D&amp;reserved=0
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Ce44fc52051134aa30b7208d862859dfa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367673298046020&amp;sdata=tnbpfItdqeNMIidCjnnx6MbFCAwGH32IgHREgMZ1VIY%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:48 AM
>> To: Ray Gralak; main@ap-gto.groups.io
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>> Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
>> concerned about it.
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:26 AM
>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>
>>> It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
>>
>> I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.
>>
>> -Ray Gralak
>> Author of PEMPro
>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>> I agree.
>>>
>>> I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing is exposing it.  It could be as simple as
>> the
>>> fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.  As I mentioned, I've not had time
>>> to do any investigation at all yet.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>
>>> APPM doesn't know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for plate solving. APPM operates the same
>>> way for all SGPro plate solvers because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn't
>>> seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.
>>>
>>> -Ray Gralak
>>> Author of PEMPro
>>> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
>> physics.com%2Fapcc-
>> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
>> %7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
>> amp;reserved=0>
>>> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;d
>> ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
>> %7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
>> p;reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;
>> data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
>> 0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
>> mp;reserved=0>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
>>>> Of W Hilmo
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
>>>> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
>>>> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>>>>
>>>> I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
>>>> probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

So here's the the main issue I have that has been preventing me from wanting to upgrade from Standard to Pro: I have to buy other software to make APPM work, and APPM is really one of the primary reasons for going to APCC Pro.

ANSVR, Astrometry.Net, ASTAP, ASPS, PlateSolve2... these are all free(*) solvers with various qualities and capabilities. But to use them with APPM, I have to put some other non-free (and now, subscription-based) software in front of them, such as TSX, SGPro or PinPoint. I have -zero- other uses for such software; if I bought (or subscribed) to them, I would be doing so only to be able to use APPM. This really feels like it could be a better arrangement.

I think what people, and certainly myself, would like is for APPM to not have this dependency and for it to be able to plate solve on its own using any (or all!) of the aforementioned solving suites. Let APPM run an ASCOM camera, and devise an internal Interface that would let you make a driver for each of whatever solvers you'd like to support. At that point, the user now has the power to choose which solver they wish to use, wether it be ASTAP or PS2 or whatever else - and do so without the middleware.

The internal interface for plate solvers is what we had to do in NINA because we realized that different folks have their preferences for solvers, sometimes nearing total religious adherence. So if someone popped up asking if they could use some new and previously-unheard of XYZ Solver with the app, all we need to know is how to make XYZ Solver solve an image that we pass to it and how to parse its results through whatever means it makes those results available. Everyone is happy and there's yet another solver listed in the drop-down menu of solvers to choose from.

On Sep 26, 2020, at 1:04 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
concerned about it.
I don't even understand what that means?

APPM does not natively plate solve. It uses an external plate solver. It simply reads the RA/Dec and other values from the solver,
or intermediary app.

For plate-solving I typically use PinPoint and all-sky backup to Astrometry.Net. I've done many thousands of plate solves. Maybe
even hundreds of thousands. Unless there is a tree, clouds, or something else obscuring the sky, plate solves have been extremely
reliable at the image scale I typically use (around 1.6 arc-sec/pixel). That said, PinPoint can have problems in areas of the sky
where there are too many stars in the selected database, typically around the milkyway.

If the image area is smaller, for example because of a longer focal length, it may be more of a challenge.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:48 AM
To: Ray Gralak; main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

Voyager uses ASTAP natively and it works like a champ. APPM doesn't solve repetitively enough for me to be
concerned about it.

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
%7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
%7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
amp;reserved=0>
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
p;reserved=0
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;
data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
mp;reserved=0>


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I agree.

I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing is exposing it. It could be as simple as
the
fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time. As I mentioned, I've not had time
to do any investigation at all yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
APPM doesn't know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for plate solving. APPM operates the same
way for all SGPro plate solvers because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn't
seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
%7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
amp;reserved=0 <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-
physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
%7C1%7C0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L5NWYJiNctTmuNFXvB37zZINb6CJ57eCgg7MyuWklfw%3D&
amp;reserved=0>
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;d
ata=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0
%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&am
p;reserved=0
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&;
data=02%7C01%7C%7C5d031ac0f6f64c67c2a908d86238f03c%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
0%7C637367343966191971&amp;sdata=L0AH7Z1UH%2FJv8TKH4hHT4xKWMZHMWDSKLJQbgVhwQsg%3D&a
mp;reserved=0>

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
Of W Hilmo
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what is
probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.






















locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Bill Long
 

Also PlateSolve2 is free. I would even accept that for APPM. Anything to prevent folks from needing to run the expensive PinPoint program or a full imaging suite just to plate solve.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:24 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 
Hi Dale,

I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has to be free, or
remain free?

I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.

The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=F5Ig87yZjOBii2bvXlbxkHburljTKUJBpSqYm2Ye4O4%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=XqAPTrD21MCZ3xsV4%2BAJPJbosp8E2O3zuD0X7vsin0E%3D&amp;reserved=0


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:14 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>
>
>
> > On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Right, but ASTAP is under active development.  As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
> >> even since I used it last.  It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP),
> that
> >> it's already been fixed.
> >
> > Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is
> released as v1.0?
>
> What can I say, Han doesn't really care about versioning. I wouldn't quibble over that since we as developers know
> that versioning can be rather arbitrary. At any rate, the source for ASTAP and all of Han's other projects are
> licensed under the GNU GPLv3 license, which is one of the most commonly-used open source licenses out there.
> No one, not even himself, can suddenly disappear that code as part of any attempt to make it closed-source. Doing
> so would violate one of the core points that comprise the GNU GPL and other open source licenses like it.
>
> I've noticed that the "but what if he/she/they charges for it later" response is common, especially in the astro scene,
> when it comes to open source projects. This primarily indicates to me a lack of familiarity of what open source
> licensing means and entails and maybe even an unfamiliarity with the open source community as a whole. If there is
> some confusion, please feel welcome to contact me directly and I can help explain any points of curiosity or
> confusion.
>
> > I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get an
> emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails despite
> that it seemed to extract the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.
> >
> > Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?
>
> Might want to check out the "Quick checklist for solving" section in the ASTAP docs:
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnsky.org%2Fastap.htm%23conditions&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=dDEaCWlKpGxYVLp527D1JjrflGs8FRHFkuE7wuePbAA%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> /dale
>
>








locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Bill Long
 

Post the FITS image file please.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:24 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
 
Hi Dale,

I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has to be free, or
remain free?

I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.

The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=F5Ig87yZjOBii2bvXlbxkHburljTKUJBpSqYm2Ye4O4%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=XqAPTrD21MCZ3xsV4%2BAJPJbosp8E2O3zuD0X7vsin0E%3D&amp;reserved=0


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:14 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE
>
>
>
> > On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Right, but ASTAP is under active development.  As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
> >> even since I used it last.  It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP),
> that
> >> it's already been fixed.
> >
> > Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is
> released as v1.0?
>
> What can I say, Han doesn't really care about versioning. I wouldn't quibble over that since we as developers know
> that versioning can be rather arbitrary. At any rate, the source for ASTAP and all of Han's other projects are
> licensed under the GNU GPLv3 license, which is one of the most commonly-used open source licenses out there.
> No one, not even himself, can suddenly disappear that code as part of any attempt to make it closed-source. Doing
> so would violate one of the core points that comprise the GNU GPL and other open source licenses like it.
>
> I've noticed that the "but what if he/she/they charges for it later" response is common, especially in the astro scene,
> when it comes to open source projects. This primarily indicates to me a lack of familiarity of what open source
> licensing means and entails and maybe even an unfamiliarity with the open source community as a whole. If there is
> some confusion, please feel welcome to contact me directly and I can help explain any points of curiosity or
> confusion.
>
> > I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get an
> emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails despite
> that it seemed to extract the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.
> >
> > Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?
>
> Might want to check out the "Quick checklist for solving" section in the ASTAP docs:
> https://nam05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hnsky.org%2Fastap.htm%23conditions&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cff52e3ea96ef4b2f57bb08d8628425e2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637367666987247003&amp;sdata=dDEaCWlKpGxYVLp527D1JjrflGs8FRHFkuE7wuePbAA%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> /dale
>
>








locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Dale,

I'm not saying this is the case here but surely you must know that open source does not necessarily mean it has to be free, or
remain free?

I was more concerned that this is just a beta and doesn't seem to be able to solve the images I gave to it.

The purpose for this test is to determine the accuracy of the solutioms.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dale Ghent
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 6:14 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE



On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP),
that
it's already been fixed.
Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is
released as v1.0?

What can I say, Han doesn't really care about versioning. I wouldn't quibble over that since we as developers know
that versioning can be rather arbitrary. At any rate, the source for ASTAP and all of Han's other projects are
licensed under the GNU GPLv3 license, which is one of the most commonly-used open source licenses out there.
No one, not even himself, can suddenly disappear that code as part of any attempt to make it closed-source. Doing
so would violate one of the core points that comprise the GNU GPL and other open source licenses like it.

I've noticed that the "but what if he/she/they charges for it later" response is common, especially in the astro scene,
when it comes to open source projects. This primarily indicates to me a lack of familiarity of what open source
licensing means and entails and maybe even an unfamiliarity with the open source community as a whole. If there is
some confusion, please feel welcome to contact me directly and I can help explain any points of curiosity or
confusion.

I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get an
emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails despite
that it seemed to extract the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.

Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?
Might want to check out the "Quick checklist for solving" section in the ASTAP docs:
http://www.hnsky.org/astap.htm#conditions

/dale


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Dale Ghent
 

On Sep 26, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com> wrote:

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP), that
it's already been fixed.
Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is released as v1.0?
What can I say, Han doesn't really care about versioning. I wouldn't quibble over that since we as developers know that versioning can be rather arbitrary. At any rate, the source for ASTAP and all of Han's other projects are licensed under the GNU GPLv3 license, which is one of the most commonly-used open source licenses out there. No one, not even himself, can suddenly disappear that code as part of any attempt to make it closed-source. Doing so would violate one of the core points that comprise the GNU GPL and other open source licenses like it.

I've noticed that the "but what if he/she/they charges for it later" response is common, especially in the astro scene, when it comes to open source projects. This primarily indicates to me a lack of familiarity of what open source licensing means and entails and maybe even an unfamiliarity with the open source community as a whole. If there is some confusion, please feel welcome to contact me directly and I can help explain any points of curiosity or confusion.

I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get an emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails despite that it seemed to extract the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.

Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?
Might want to check out the "Quick checklist for solving" section in the ASTAP docs:
http://www.hnsky.org/astap.htm#conditions

/dale


locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

Ray Gralak
 
Edited

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP), that
it's already been fixed.
Is it correct that the latest version is a *beta* version? (v0.9.421) It is free now, but will it be free when it is released as v1.0?

I just downloaded it, installed it and the G17 database. I then used APPM's NASA SkyView camera type to get an emulated image, which solved in PinPoint in a few seconds. Trying to solve the same image in ASTAP fails despite that it seemed to extract the correct RA/Dec and image scale from the FITS header.

Any idea of what I should check? Or is this a possible bug in the application?

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 4:56 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes
even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP), that
it's already been fixed.

I would also echo the other comments here that it would be great if APPM could use it directly. It would be nice to
have the option of running APPM with an ASCOM camera driver and direct calls to ASTAP. It would be possible
then to do an APPM run without a separate imaging package.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
Of W Hilmo
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I agree.

I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing
is exposing it. It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing
a large number of plate solves in a short period of time. As I mentioned, I've not had time to do any investigation
at all yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray
Gralak
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what
is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
APPM doesn’t know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for
plate solving. APPM operates the same way for all SGPro plate solvers
because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn’t seem to show the same
problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
Of W Hilmo
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with
AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what
is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.





















locked Re: #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE #APCC

W Hilmo
 

Right, but ASTAP is under active development. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, there have been fixes even since I used it last. It's possible that if the problem is there (and we still don't know that, it could be SGP), that it's already been fixed.

I would also echo the other comments here that it would be great if APPM could use it directly. It would be nice to have the option of running APPM with an ASCOM camera driver and direct calls to ASTAP. It would be possible then to do an APPM run without a separate imaging package.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing a large number of plate solves in a short period of time.
I hope that's not true because it might make ASTAP a poor choice for plate solving.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
Of W Hilmo
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2020 8:50 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I agree.

I suspect that it's an ASTAP problem, but something that APPM is doing
is exposing it. It could be as simple as the fact that APPM is doing
a large number of plate solves in a short period of time. As I mentioned, I've not had time to do any investigation at all yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray
Gralak
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 6:52 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what
is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.
APPM doesn’t know which plate solver is in use when SGPro is used for
plate solving. APPM operates the same way for all SGPro plate solvers
because APPM uses the SGPro API for plate solving. Since PlateSolve2 doesn’t seem to show the same problem, it seems likely that the problem is with how SGPro handles ASTAP.

-Ray Gralak
Author of PEMPro
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf
Of W Hilmo
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2020 9:29 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] #APCC APCC/APPM blocking issue with
AP1100GTOAE

I switched to ASTAP for my plate solves with SGP and am seeing what
is probably the same issue described in the first post of this thread.










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