Date   

Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Bill Long
 

Looks pretty solid to me.


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Nagy <topboxman@...>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 10:57 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
 
Found this Planewave 12.5 CDK using AP27TVPH:

http://www.compubuild.com/astro/planewave/AP27TVPH-PW.htm

Peter 


Re: Pillars of M16

Karen Christen
 

Hello Curtis (?),

 

You may have to search for “how to allow cookies” for the web browser you’re using.  For example, I tend to use Chrome, so here’s a link to the instructions I found for turning cookies off/on for Chrome:  https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/61416?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en

 

This is what a Notify Me button looks like.  It’s located on the product main page, on the right below the price and options, above the information tabs.

Karen

AP

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of CurtisC via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Pillars of M16

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Hmm.  I don't know where to go from here.  Thanks.  What does a "notify me" button look like?


--
Karen Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Peter Nagy
 

Found this Planewave 12.5 CDK using AP27TVPH:

http://www.compubuild.com/astro/planewave/AP27TVPH-PW.htm

Peter 


Re: Pillars of M16

CurtisC
 
Edited

Hmm.  I don't know where to go from here.  Thanks.  What does a "notify me" button look like?


Re: Pillars of M16

Karen Christen
 

You have to allow cookies in order to see the Notify Me button.  This is because in order to notify you, we must collect some contact information, namely, your email address.  We cannot do that if you don’t allow cookies.  I hope this is helpful.

Karen C

AP

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of CurtisC via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 12:29 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Pillars of M16

 

Rolando: The Mach2GTO page says "Click the Notify Me button below if you are interested in this mount."  

What "Notify Me" button?  


--
Karen Christen
Astro-Physics


Re: Pillars of M16

CurtisC
 

Rolando: The Mach2GTO page says "Click the Notify Me button below if you are interested in this mount."  

What "Notify Me" button?  


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Bill Long
 

Doesn't have much backfocus spacing available. Something in the ballpark of 50mm. On my 10" I plan to test out the AP27TVPH once I have some expendable sky time...


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of DFisch <manusfisch@...>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 9:46 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
 
Bill, any elaboration on “useless” vs extraneous, vs optically ineffective, vs just not needed for a fine scope? Just curious as this scope is a distant dream scope for me, Tom Fischer

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:36 Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:










The reducer is useless. Dont buy it. 










From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Nagy <topboxman@...>


Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:59 AM


To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>


Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images


 




Congrats on ordering Planewave scope. Be prepared to spend additional $2K or more on accessories like electronic focuser, reducer, Precise Parts adapters, etc.





It's only money. :-)





Peter 















--
TJF MOBILE


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

DFisch
 

Bill, any elaboration on “useless” vs extraneous, vs optically ineffective, vs just not needed for a fine scope? Just curious as this scope is a distant dream scope for me, Tom Fischer

On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:36 Bill Long <bill@...> wrote:










The reducer is useless. Dont buy it. 










From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Nagy <topboxman@...>


Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:59 AM


To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>


Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images


 




Congrats on ordering Planewave scope. Be prepared to spend additional $2K or more on accessories like electronic focuser, reducer, Precise Parts adapters, etc.





It's only money. :-)





Peter 















--
TJF MOBILE


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Bill Long
 

The reducer is useless. Dont buy it. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Peter Nagy <topboxman@...>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2020 8:59 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
 
Congrats on ordering Planewave scope. Be prepared to spend additional $2K or more on accessories like electronic focuser, reducer, Precise Parts adapters, etc.

It's only money. :-)

Peter 


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Peter Nagy
 

Congrats on ordering Planewave scope. Be prepared to spend additional $2K or more on accessories like electronic focuser, reducer, Precise Parts adapters, etc.

It's only money. :-)

Peter 


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Dominique Durand
 
Edited

Hi Tony,
With a C11HD obviously it's a little less simple. I am also in this perspective to be able to use my C11HD on my Mach2 with exposures of more than 1 'and everything depends on the possibility of making a good model.After trial and error, I ended up first improving my MES with Sharpcap, then I noticed in the models made that the orthogonality in DEC was really not good. Either Flip Mirror, or something else like tilt on the camera. As I have a motorized PO FT I have adjusted the MAP as well as possible with the mirror adjustment then blocked without forcing it and also modified the camera fixation. Yesterday evening the 29 point model then the 92 model, despite clouds coming to disturb the resolution of 10 points on the west, indicated better measurements in terms of orthogonality. I then made a test on a star low on the horizon (Near Jupiter) and near the meridian. After 5 'it was still positioned on the center of the crosshair (200%) on the image provided on Sharpcap. Then 6 'exposures on NGC6888 turned out to be quite successful.There are still areas for improvement to get a smoother tracking correction, but I think I can say that there is a possibility of modeling with a C11 and doing poses greater than 3 '.
The link with my post on the subject.
https://ap-gto.groups.io/g/main/topic/mach2_orthogonality/76392947?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,20,76392947


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
 

Sorry, should have typed the extra. It is a C11 Edge HD that I am replacing J

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of CurtisC via groups.io
Sent: August 31, 2020 12:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

 

I have gone ahead and ordered a Planewave 12.5” and will sell the C11.

Did you consider the EdgeHD 1100?


Re: Issue with starting ASCOM driver from SGP #ASCOM_V2_Driver

DiscoDuck
 

Sorry not to reply earlier but it was a while between setups (winter here in Australia!). That works fine now. Thanks for the advice. 


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

CurtisC
 

I have gone ahead and ordered a Planewave 12.5” and will sell the C11.

Did you consider the EdgeHD 1100?


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Bill Long
 

Love the CDK scopes (or in my case iDK) they are a joy to use and produce excellent data. Congrats! The 1100 will enjoy it too. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2020 3:51 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
 

Thanks for the input W.Hilmo! Tiny font btw J

 

I have gone ahead and ordered a Planewave 12.5” and will sell the C11. Drastic measures, but will put an end to mirror flop!! J Looking forward to the cloudy skies!

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: August 30, 2020 7:48 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

 

I image with an 8" EdgeHD 800 and I get about the same performance that Tony does unless I guide with an OAG.

 

The thing about the EdgeHD scopes is that they do not have mirror locks at all.  They have mirror clutches that consist of two flexible rods installed on the back of the scope at 120 degrees from the focus knob.  This provides some support for the mirror to keep it from tilting (although since the rods are flexible, they can and do bend if the focus knob is turned while they are set).  But they do nothing at all to prevent the lateral movement that Roland describes.

 

The end result is that if I go either unguided or with a guide scope, I get elongated stars.  They are clearly noticeable on two minute exposures at 0.5 arc seconds per pixel.  As such, my EdgeHD requires either an OAG on ONAG any must be guided.

 

And this is on my AP1600 with absolute encoders and a pointing/tracking model built through APPM.

 

 


From: chris1011@...
Sent: 8/29/20 11:18 AM
To: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

No, we have not changed the way the CP4 controllers interface with APCC Pro. However, there is a new version of APCC Pro that might be what you want to update.

 

If you are using a C14 for unguided, you may run into mirror shift issues that cannot be solved with modeling. I think trying to do unguided imaging with such a scope might be stretching things. First you have very long focal length, next you have an optical/mechanical system that is prone to differential flexure, and then you have possible mirror shifting, even if it's locked down. Reason for the shift is not because it tilts due to gravity, rather that the entire mirror slides sideways due to the clearance between the mirror's central hole and the shaft that it rides on. The mirror is quite heavy and slides around sideways because it is not glued down to the metal shaft that it sits on.

 

Rolando

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Will do, tonight hopefully.

  

It says I need to contact AP to get the CP4 firmware updated? Might this play into my issue?

  

  

  

Tony

  

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io
Sent: August 29, 2020 11:08 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

 

"Pretty sure" will only be confirmed if you do what i suggested - do a guider graph for 10 - 12 minutes with guide pulses turned off. See what your guide graph looks like, maybe even post a screen shot so we have something to work with. 

  

Rolando

  

  

  

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Hi,

Thanks all for the input.

The scope I am currently using is a C11 Edge (the mirror is "locked down" - but who knows??). Image scale is .44 with the ML16200. Hopefully will upgrade to a Planewave 12.5 in the near future and kiss possible mirror shift goodbye :)

Pretty sure the encoders were on - but will double check tonight. I also have tracking and pointing corrections on in APPM.

The only message I've noted of late is that my CP4 firmware needs to be updated?



Tony

 

 


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
 

Thanks for the input W.Hilmo! Tiny font btw J

 

I have gone ahead and ordered a Planewave 12.5” and will sell the C11. Drastic measures, but will put an end to mirror flop!! J Looking forward to the cloudy skies!

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of W Hilmo
Sent: August 30, 2020 7:48 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io; main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

 

I image with an 8" EdgeHD 800 and I get about the same performance that Tony does unless I guide with an OAG.

 

The thing about the EdgeHD scopes is that they do not have mirror locks at all.  They have mirror clutches that consist of two flexible rods installed on the back of the scope at 120 degrees from the focus knob.  This provides some support for the mirror to keep it from tilting (although since the rods are flexible, they can and do bend if the focus knob is turned while they are set).  But they do nothing at all to prevent the lateral movement that Roland describes.

 

The end result is that if I go either unguided or with a guide scope, I get elongated stars.  They are clearly noticeable on two minute exposures at 0.5 arc seconds per pixel.  As such, my EdgeHD requires either an OAG on ONAG any must be guided.

 

And this is on my AP1600 with absolute encoders and a pointing/tracking model built through APPM.

 

 


From: chris1011@...
Sent: 8/29/20 11:18 AM
To: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

No, we have not changed the way the CP4 controllers interface with APCC Pro. However, there is a new version of APCC Pro that might be what you want to update.

 

If you are using a C14 for unguided, you may run into mirror shift issues that cannot be solved with modeling. I think trying to do unguided imaging with such a scope might be stretching things. First you have very long focal length, next you have an optical/mechanical system that is prone to differential flexure, and then you have possible mirror shifting, even if it's locked down. Reason for the shift is not because it tilts due to gravity, rather that the entire mirror slides sideways due to the clearance between the mirror's central hole and the shaft that it rides on. The mirror is quite heavy and slides around sideways because it is not glued down to the metal shaft that it sits on.

 

Rolando

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Will do, tonight hopefully.

  

It says I need to contact AP to get the CP4 firmware updated? Might this play into my issue?

  

  

  

Tony

  

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io
Sent: August 29, 2020 11:08 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

 

"Pretty sure" will only be confirmed if you do what i suggested - do a guider graph for 10 - 12 minutes with guide pulses turned off. See what your guide graph looks like, maybe even post a screen shot so we have something to work with. 

  

Rolando

  

  

  

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Hi,

Thanks all for the input.

The scope I am currently using is a C11 Edge (the mirror is "locked down" - but who knows??). Image scale is .44 with the ML16200. Hopefully will upgrade to a Planewave 12.5 in the near future and kiss possible mirror shift goodbye :)

Pretty sure the encoders were on - but will double check tonight. I also have tracking and pointing corrections on in APPM.

The only message I've noted of late is that my CP4 firmware needs to be updated?



Tony

 

 


Re: [ap-ug] Pelican images

CurtisC
 

Rolando, somehow I'm not seeing it.  What scope/camera did you use for the Pelican?


Re: Pillars of M16

Roland Christen
 


I have always assumed that focusing, seeing, and guiding are the top three.
Yes, yes and yes.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: M Hambrick <mhambrick563@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 8:35 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Pillars of M16

Great image as usual Roland

What in your opinion is the most critical factor in being able to achieve such crisp, detailed images ? I have always assumed that focusing, seeing, and guiding are the top three. Which of these three is most critical, and are there other factors to consider ?


Re: Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

W Hilmo
 

I image with an 8" EdgeHD 800 and I get about the same performance that Tony does unless I guide with an OAG.

The thing about the EdgeHD scopes is that they do not have mirror locks at all.  They have mirror clutches that consist of two flexible rods installed on the back of the scope at 120 degrees from the focus knob.  This provides some support for the mirror to keep it from tilting (although since the rods are flexible, they can and do bend if the focus knob is turned while they are set).  But they do nothing at all to prevent the lateral movement that Roland describes.

The end result is that if I go either unguided or with a guide scope, I get elongated stars.  They are clearly noticeable on two minute exposures at 0.5 arc seconds per pixel.  As such, my EdgeHD requires either an OAG on ONAG any must be guided.

And this is on my AP1600 with absolute encoders and a pointing/tracking model built through APPM.



From: chris1011@...
Sent: 8/29/20 11:18 AM
To: "main@ap-gto.groups.io" <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
No, we have not changed the way the CP4 controllers interface with APCC Pro. However, there is a new version of APCC Pro that might be what you want to update.

If you are using a C14 for unguided, you may run into mirror shift issues that cannot be solved with modeling. I think trying to do unguided imaging with such a scope might be stretching things. First you have very long focal length, next you have an optical/mechanical system that is prone to differential flexure, and then you have possible mirror shifting, even if it's locked down. Reason for the shift is not because it tilts due to gravity, rather that the entire mirror slides sideways due to the clearance between the mirror's central hole and the shaft that it rides on. The mirror is quite heavy and slides around sideways because it is not glued down to the metal shaft that it sits on.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images

Will do, tonight hopefully.
  
It says I need to contact AP to get the CP4 firmware updated? Might this play into my issue?
  
  
  
Tony
  
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io
Sent: August 29, 2020 11:08 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
 
"Pretty sure" will only be confirmed if you do what i suggested - do a guider graph for 10 - 12 minutes with guide pulses turned off. See what your guide graph looks like, maybe even post a screen shot so we have something to work with. 
  
Rolando
  
  
  
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Aug 29, 2020 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Drift Alignment To Help With Unguided Images
Hi,

Thanks all for the input.

The scope I am currently using is a C11 Edge (the mirror is "locked down" - but who knows??). Image scale is .44 with the ML16200. Hopefully will upgrade to a Planewave 12.5 in the near future and kiss possible mirror shift goodbye :)

Pretty sure the encoders were on - but will double check tonight. I also have tracking and pointing corrections on in APPM.

The only message I've noted of late is that my CP4 firmware needs to be updated?



Tony



Re: New product for Stowaway that we are going to make

M Hambrick
 

Your designers and machinists do wonderful work ! I just received notification that I have a Stowaway available, and I will be adding one of these dovetail plates to my arsenal.

I also like the holder for the laser pointer. That one looks longer than the standard dovetail bases you offer.

I sure wish you still made the DOVE15.

6281 - 6300 of 79098