Date   

Re: Changing Keypad battery

Mike Dodd
 

On 7/16/2020 9:32 PM, Geoff Smith wrote:
What is the lithium battery connector and how do I unplug it?
The attached photo shows the coin cell and where the wires plug into the box.

--- Mike


Changing Keypad battery

Geoff Smith
 

This is probably going to be a "doh" moment, but I am puzzled by the following line on P11 of the keypad maintenance manual

"Unplug the lithium battery connector. Note the Real Time Clock (RTC ) Module. This is NOT the battery!! Do NOT attempt
to remove this! (See photo top of following page)"

What is the lithium battery connector and how do I unplug it?
Geoff


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Peter,

Are you saying that I have compromised Windows 10 performance by running it in Parallels on my Mac OS?
Would Windows operate more fully on a real PC?
It's not a performance issue. It's a compatibility issue.

You will not be able to use some USB devices on a Mac with Parallels that you would be able to use with Fusion. That's because Fusion supposedly does a better job virtualizing Windows USB devices.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Natscher
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] RS-232

Hi Ray,

Are you saying that I have compromised Windows 10 performance by running it in Parallels on my Mac OS?
Would Windows operate more fully on a real PC?


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Peter Natscher
 
Edited

I used to use Bootcamp but opted to try out Parallels when I changed my MacBook Pro to run Win 10 last January.  I do like Parallels simplicity without having to restart to the Boocamp Windows partition. I was using Win 7 on Bootcamp up until then.  Trouble is My 2012 MacBook Pro is limited to running MacOS 10.13.6 (High Sierra).  I can't operate a newer version Bootcamp to run Win 10 on it. Maybe it's time to retire the nice big screen 17" MacBook Pro and partition my 2016 27" iMac and go back to Bootcamp and Windows 10 with that computer.


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Thorsten Lockert
 

Yes, it is still around. But won’t be for the next release of macOS (Big Sur), or for Apple Silicon based future Mac systems.

Thorsten

On Jul 16, 2020, at 13:31, Dean Jacobsen <deanjacobsen@...> wrote:

Not compromised but when I used it sometimes the Parallels instance of Win 10 Dodd’s have trouble connecting to external devices though USB.  

VMWare Fusion is an excellent product but was expensive.

VirtualBox was good too, and free, but you sort of have to be adventurous to use it.

Bootcamp is what I would recommend.  Is Bootcamp still around with the latest macOS versions?
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 



Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Dean Jacobsen
 
Edited

Not compromised but when I used it sometimes the Parallels instance of Win 10 did have trouble connecting to external devices though USB.  

VMWare Fusion is an excellent product but was expensive.

VirtualBox was good too, and free, but you sort of have to be adventurous to use it.

Bootcamp is what I would recommend.  Is Bootcamp still around with the latest macOS versions?
--
Dean Jacobsen
http://astrophoto.net/wp/
Image Gallery - http://astrophoto.net/wp/image-gallery/
Astrobin - https://www.astrobin.com/users/deanjacobsen/ 


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Thorsten Lockert
 

It *is* a “real” PC — you can run Windows natively on it, via Bootcamp.

Neither of those choices will really exist once the new Apple Silicon based ones come out.

Thorsten

On Jul 16, 2020, at 13:04, Peter Natscher <natscher@...> wrote:

Hi Ray,

Are you saying that I have compromised Windows 10 performance by running it in Parallels on my Mac OS?  Would Windows operate more fully on a real PC?


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Peter Natscher
 

Hi Ray,

Are you saying that I have compromised Windows 10 performance by running it in Parallels on my Mac OS?  Would Windows operate more fully on a real PC?


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Ray Gralak
 

MacBook Pro (17" 2012) partitioned with Parallels running Win 10 Pro 64.
That might be part of the problem. Running Parallels does not guarantee that a Windows USB driver is going to work on Macs. I've heard that VMWare Fusion works much better than Parallels with regards to successfully using USB devices on a Mac.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Natscher
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:34 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] [ap-ug] RS-232

As stated earlier with trying to replace the corrupted database in my Keypad, I had problems connecting with a
cable between my MacBook Pro (17" 2012) partitioned with Parallels running Win 10 Pro 64. I was using a
TripLite RS-232 (9 pin)-to-USB(A) cable connector (with its own board inside). This required a driver. Win 7 and
Win 10 couldn't find a driver for this cable, so I downloaded and installed a current one found online. After
installing the driver, Win 10 still couldn't acknowledge the connection between the PC laptop and CP4. Could
anyone please recommend a proven USB(A)-to-RS232 cable to me that will connect between USB(A) port laptop
and the CP4?


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Peter Natscher
 

I'd like to thank all who responded to my questions about my personal hurdles using RS-232 in connection to managing my wonderful Astro-Physics Mach1 mount and Keypad.  Apparently, I am ignorant to the still important use of RS-232 and Serial in general use of Astro-Physics mounts and many other technical devices.   My orientation is more in line with consumer level electronic products that rely more or less on USB technology.


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Howard Hedlund
 

Peter,  I'll send  you the link off-group  with software and instructions to upgrade the GTOCP4 to P01-14. 


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Peter Natscher
 

As stated earlier with trying to replace the corrupted database in my Keypad, I had problems connecting with a cable between my MacBook Pro (17" 2012) partitioned with Parallels running Win 10 Pro 64.  I was using a TripLite RS-232 (9 pin)-to-USB(A) cable connector (with its own board inside). This required a driver.  Win 7 and Win 10 couldn't find a driver for this cable, so I downloaded and installed a current one found online.  After installing the driver, Win 10 still couldn't acknowledge the connection between the PC laptop and CP4.  Could anyone please recommend a proven USB(A)-to-RS232 cable to me that will connect between USB(A) port laptop and the CP4?


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Peter Natscher
 

Hi Howard,

That's good news about the P01-14. Will this software be able to be loaded into the CP4 and Keypad using my PC with Win 10 Pro 64?


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Howard Hedlund
 

HERE IS THE WHOLE THREAD FROM THE AP-UG.

Why does Astro-Physics continue to use RS-232 in their CP mount electronics?  This adds to the difficulty of upgrading the electronics with current computers, especially operating in Win 10.  What other telescope mount maker uses RS-232?  These plugs are not on current laptops, they are so old system developed in 1968!  Today's electronics only need USB.

 

 
Steve Reilly
10:52am  

Look at the CP 4 and you’ll see many options of which includes RS-232. Win 10 can easily run RS232 ports and the hardware is available. I use StarTech PCIe boards on new builds. As for laptops, I don’t even try to run an observatory on one especially if imaging. I use the Ethernet connection as primary with a RS232 backup.

 

-Steve

 

 

 

toggle quoted messageShow quoted text

 

 

 

What are you connecting your CP4 RS-232 directly to?  What other external devices have RS-232 ports?  Why continue to rely on RS-232-to-USB adapters anymore? I would think that most AP mount owners who connect their mounts to an external device, commonly a laptop or imaging device, they would only need USB ports.  RS-232 is so old and outdated.

 

 
Dale Ghent
11:20am  

On Jul 16, 2020, at 1:42 PM, Peter Natscher <natscher@...> wrote:

Why does Astro-Physics continue to use RS-232 in their CP mount electronics? This adds to the difficulty of upgrading the electronics with current computers, especially operating in Win 10. What other telescope mount maker uses RS-232? These plugs are not on current laptops, they are so old system developed in 1968! Today's electronics only need USB.
The CP4 and CP5, which all new A-P mounts have shipped with since at least 2016 and all GTO mounts since the late 90's can be upgraded to, offers 4 different interconnect types including USB. Are you confused?

/dale

 

 
Dale Ghent
11:23am  

On Jul 16, 2020, at 2:19 PM, Peter Natscher <natscher@...> wrote:

What are you connecting your CP4 RS-232 directly to? What other external devices have RS-232 ports? Why continue to rely on RS-232-to-USB adapters anymore? I would think that most AP mount owners who connect their mounts to an external device, commonly a laptop or imaging device, they would only need USB ports. RS-232 is so old and outdated.
RS-232, the protocol, is still quite relevant and still useful for low-bandwidth synchronous communication between devices.

Are you complaining about the 9-pin D-sub style physical interface? The CP4/CP5 has those, but also a USB type-B plug that can be used instead. Have you ever looked at one of these before? RS-232 signaling can exist over many different physical layers.

 

 
Steve Reilly
11:24am  

 

 
Ray Gralak
11:27am  

What are you connecting your CP4 RS-232 directly to? What other external devices have RS-232 ports? Why
continue to rely on RS-232-to-USB adapters anymore? I would think that most AP mount owners who connect
their mounts to an external device, commonly a laptop or imaging device, they would only need USB ports. RS-
232 is so old and outdated.
Some things:

* GTOCP4/5 has Ethernet, WiFi, USB, and RS232 ports.

* USB is known to have reliability issues.

* USB cables are limited to 15 feet without active extenders.

* USB plugs are not physically very secure. That is, they are easy to get pulled out especially with only 15 feet of cord.

* Many customers are still using RS232 ports, so getting rid of them would not be wise.

* You can still get computers with built-in RS232 ports and add in cards are cheap and very reliable.

* You can run serial cables several hundred feet.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-ug.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-ug.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Natscher
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

What are you connecting your CP4 RS-232 directly to? What other external devices have RS-232 ports? Why
continue to rely on RS-232-to-USB adapters anymore? I would think that most AP mount owners who connect
their mounts to an external device, commonly a laptop or imaging device, they would only need USB ports. RS-
232 is so old and outdated.

 

 

What good is this board for a laptop, pad, or phone?  Most mount operators aren't running their mounts from a big computer tower with PCI slots.

 

 
Ray Gralak
11:33am  

What good is this board for a laptop, pad, or phone? Most mount operators aren't running their mounts from a big
computer tower with PCI slots.
I don't see the problem. There is WiFi on GTOCP4/5.

Just because you are using a laptop doesn't mean everyone else is!

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-ug.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-ug.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Natscher
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 11:31 AM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

What good is this board for a laptop, pad, or phone? Most mount operators aren't running their mounts from a big
computer tower with PCI slots.

 

 
Dale Ghent
11:45am  

What is the problem you are trying to solve? The CP4 *has* a USB port, which is a built-in serial-over-USB connection. You can also use network-based connections over ethernet and wifi as well, yet you're acting like any of these don't exist. Is there a deeper problem that you are trying to solve here and have trouble figuring out where to start?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text

 

 

 

Let me jump in.  In Peter’s defence, his issue with the RS232 occurred when attempting to load the database back into the keypad after the battery had been replaced.  For that activity, we do not yet offer a web-based loader, but it will be coming along with the next generation of keypad firmware.  

 

PLEASE NOTE:  We now have a version of CP4 software – P01-14 – that allows both RS232 ports AND the USB port to be used for keypad loading.  Older CP4 versions and all earlier control boxes were top RS232 port only for keypad loads.  P01-14 is not up on the website, yet, but I can provide a dropbox link to anyone who needs it.  The only difference between P01-13 and P01-14 is this one feature.  If you have P01-13, and you don’t need to load keypad firmware or the database, there is no need to rush out and get P01-14

 

Except for cameras, almost all astro-equipment is serial if you look under the hood.  Manufacturers (our friends at Optec come to mind) do exactly what we did:  they install an OEM USB to serial converter inside the device electronics.  You may be plugging in a USB cable, but the communication is serial.

 

Serial may be old technology, but it has many advantages.  Ray summarized them beautifully!

 

FINALLY  I AM MOVING THIS TO THE AP-GTO GROUP WHERE IT BELONGS.

 

Mag. 7 Skies!

 

Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-315-7015

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.

 

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

 

 
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text

 

 

 
11:52am  
Edited 11:55am

For many years, laptops have stopped using the 9-pin RS-232 port for the 15-pin port.  This in itself requires that more adapters need to be used to connect via RS-232 to the CP electronics.  The other day, I spent two evenings trying to replace a corrupted database in my Mach1 Keypad  I started out using my MacBook Pro partitioned with Parallels and running Win 10 64.  After downloading APs Keypad Database Tool, Win 10 wouldn't open it up, even after installing the other AP recommended utilities. Howard Hedlund helping me out acknowledged this for Win 10.  Win 10 is here and AP needs to get onboard with it.  Hanging on to RS-232 is like hanging on to Win 7. Since my laptop doesn't have a RS-232 port, I connected a RS-232-to-USB cable between it and the CP4 electronics.  Win 10 wouldn't recognize this connection between the two even after installing the driver for it.  Frustrated, I then used a late 2000's laptop PC with Win 7 32.  The Win 7 wouldn't even open up the Keypad Database Tool and the PC had the usual 15-pin RS-232 port, something I had no cable for to connect to the 9-pin RS-232 port on the CP4. Do you see where I'm going?  For a average owner of a AP mount who just wants to operate it for observing, and doesn't use an observatory, it becomes very difficult to manage their expensive mount electronics with support that doesn't work easily, if at all.  These mounts should be as easy to update and reload software as my everyday cell phone and laptop computer.  The RS-232 requirement just gets in the way.

 

 
Donald Rudny
11:55am  

Peter,
There is a need for the serial connection if you want to use SkySafari on an iOS device with it hard wired to the CP4 or 5.  You could use Wi-Fi, but some have trouble with drop outs.  SC sells Skywire to connect an iOS device to the serial port with a DB9 connection.
 
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text

 

 

 


Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

Howard Hedlund
 

Let me jump in.  In Peter’s defence, his issue with the RS232 occurred when attempting to load the database back into the keypad after the battery had been replaced.  For that activity, we do not yet offer a web-based loader, but it will be coming along with the next generation of keypad firmware.  

 

PLEASE NOTE:  We now have a version of CP4 software – P01-14 – that allows both RS232 ports AND the USB port to be used for keypad loading.  Older CP4 versions and all earlier control boxes were top RS232 port only for keypad loads.  P01-14 is not up on the website, yet, but I can provide a dropbox link to anyone who needs it.  The only difference between P01-13 and P01-14 is this one feature.  If you have P01-13, and you don’t need to load keypad firmware or the database, there is no need to rush out and get P01-14

 

Except for cameras, almost all astro-equipment is serial if you look under the hood.  Manufacturers (our friends at Optec come to mind) do exactly what we did:  they install an OEM USB to serial converter inside the device electronics.  You may be plugging in a USB cable, but the communication is serial.

 

Serial may be old technology, but it has many advantages.  Ray summarized them beautifully!

 

FINALLY  I AM MOVING THIS TO THE AP-GTO GROUP WHERE IT BELONGS.

 

Mag. 7 Skies!

 

Howard Hedlund

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-315-7015

www.astro-physics.com

Please include this e-mail with your response.

 

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

 

From: main@ap-ug.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-ug.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve Reilly
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:53
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] RS-232

 

Look at the CP 4 and you’ll see many options of which includes RS-232. Win 10 can easily run RS232 ports and the hardware is available. I use StarTech PCIe boards on new builds. As for laptops, I don’t even try to run an observatory on one especially if imaging. I use the Ethernet connection as primary with a RS232 backup.

 

-Steve

 

 

 

From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Natscher
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:43 PM
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Subject: [ap-ug] RS-232

 

Why does Astro-Physics continue to use RS-232 in their CP mount electronics?  This adds to the difficulty of upgrading the electronics with current computers, especially operating in Win 10.  What other telescope mount maker uses RS-232?  These plugs are not on current laptops, they are so old system developed in 1968!  Today's electronics only need USB.


Re: [ap-ug] Heavenly Flower

Richard Crisp
 

I shot that image at f/9 so it was slow: 38.5hours using a kaf8300 for all three filters

“Corrected” by my iPhone

On Jul 15, 2020, at 4:34 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


If I get another week of clear skies I will definitely go for it.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Crisp <rdcrisp@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2020 6:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Heavenly Flower

It looks good to me

It’s a great tricolor narrowband object too

Goodly amount of sulfur & oxygen in it

This isn’t the best example but it’s one I could find quickly

Kaf8300/ap180edt s2/Ha/O3 

“Corrected” by my iPhone

On Jul 15, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


I just uploaded my heavenly Flower, the Tulip Nebula:

https://www.astrobin.com/full/9ps5cx/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=
Full resolution crop:
https://www.astrobin.com/full/0mmr9p/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=

7 hours for H-a over a couple of nights. 160EDF refractor mounted on the Mach2 mount, unguided, using the keypad simple modeling routine (8 points along the object path). No field flattener, just straight thru from lens to the chip.

Rolando


Re: [ap-ug] Heavenly Flower

Richard Crisp
 

It looks good to me

It’s a great tricolor narrowband object too

Goodly amount of sulfur & oxygen in it

This isn’t the best example but it’s one I could find quickly

Kaf8300/ap180edt s2/Ha/O3 

“Corrected” by my iPhone

On Jul 15, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


I just uploaded my heavenly Flower, the Tulip Nebula:

https://www.astrobin.com/full/9ps5cx/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=
Full resolution crop:
https://www.astrobin.com/full/0mmr9p/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=

7 hours for H-a over a couple of nights. 160EDF refractor mounted on the Mach2 mount, unguided, using the keypad simple modeling routine (8 points along the object path). No field flattener, just straight thru from lens to the chip.

Rolando


Re: [ap-ug] Heavenly Flower

Roland Christen
 

If I get another week of clear skies I will definitely go for it.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Crisp <rdcrisp@...>
To: main@ap-ug.groups.io
Cc: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2020 6:29 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-ug] Heavenly Flower

It looks good to me

It’s a great tricolor narrowband object too

Goodly amount of sulfur & oxygen in it

This isn’t the best example but it’s one I could find quickly

Kaf8300/ap180edt s2/Ha/O3 

“Corrected” by my iPhone

On Jul 15, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...> wrote:


I just uploaded my heavenly Flower, the Tulip Nebula:

https://www.astrobin.com/full/9ps5cx/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=
Full resolution crop:
https://www.astrobin.com/full/0mmr9p/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=

7 hours for H-a over a couple of nights. 160EDF refractor mounted on the Mach2 mount, unguided, using the keypad simple modeling routine (8 points along the object path). No field flattener, just straight thru from lens to the chip.

Rolando


Heavenly Flower

Roland Christen
 

I just uploaded my heavenly Flower, the Tulip Nebula:

https://www.astrobin.com/full/9ps5cx/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=
Full resolution crop:
https://www.astrobin.com/full/0mmr9p/0/?nc=Uncarollo&real=&mod=

7 hours for H-a over a couple of nights. 160EDF refractor mounted on the Mach2 mount, unguided, using the keypad simple modeling routine (8 points along the object path). No field flattener, just straight thru from lens to the chip.

Rolando


Re: Mach1 and GTOCP4 Yellow Light

Joe Zeglinski
 

Mikko,
 
    There may be “oxidized connector pins” on the RA box, and likely DEC as well. Disconnecting and reconnected the Y-cable probably cleaned them up – a bit. Maybe try a contact cleaner spray on both cable plug & socket,  to ensure longer operation, since this seems to have been the fix to the original problem.
 
Joe Z.
 
 

From: Mikko Viljamaa
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 9:42 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach1 and GTOCP4 Yellow Light
 
I never opened the Dec gearbox so I don't know what's going on there. When I first connected the Dec side of the cable to Ra and had the Ra box open, the quick rotation I explained happened. After I jiggled and pinched the visible wires inside the Ra gearbox, everything started to work. This with the correct Ra side of the cable was connected. I don't remember ever trying again with the Dec side after everything worked.

I'll redo all the testing and record them step by step when the mount malfunctions the next time. That way we know for sure. Now I have currently three nights without a problem so I don't want to stir the status quo.

Again, when I opened the Ra gearbox, I did the mentioned wire jiggle and pinch so who knows, maybe that helped.


- Mikko

7421 - 7440 of 79096